Guest Michael Gray Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:00:51 -0400, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: - Refer: <5euviqF3a5qs7U1@mid.individual.net> > >"Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> > >snipo >> >> I see it different. I see evolutionists that that rush to court to stop >> any school systems from teaching Intelligent Design. They do not want any >> competition. > >Why do you keep telling this lie? Erm, because he is a liar, perhaps? -- Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 08:57:31 -0400, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: - Refer: <5euvcjF39kn19U1@mid.individual.net> > >"johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message >news:jhachmann-C65536.17511201072007@news.giganews.com... >> In article <2bqe839of0oeet6j5bn5ahckfapuln9dnm@4ax.com>, >> Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 23:23:27 -0700, johac >>> <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> - Refer: <jhachmann-9C667C.23232730062007@news.giganews.com> >>> >In article <q3dc83183vrussfbg4n0uk217oqfrss1uu@4ax.com>, >>> > Michael Gray <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >> On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:29:32 -0700, johac >>> >> <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >> - Refer: <jhachmann-D5E3F6.23293229062007@news.giganews.com> >>> >> >In article <5ekj7bF398uh2U1@mid.individual.net>, >>> >> > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> "johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message >>> >> >> news:jhachmann-5CD649.15412328062007@news.giganews.com... >>> >> >> > In article <5ehujiF385pl0U1@mid.individual.net>, >>> >> >> > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> "johac" <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message >>> >> >> >> news:jhachmann-5CB182.16175027062007@news.giganews.com... >>> >> >> >> > In article <5efchvF36n37vU1@mid.individual.net>, >>> >> >> >> > "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> "Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message >>> >> >> >> >> news:1vj3835t86vajghq9n05jc1n7qdhe7ntud@4ax.com... >>> >> >> >> >> > On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:58:27 -0700, johac >>> >> >> >> >> > <jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> > - Refer: >>> >> >> >> >> > <jhachmann-2EB388.15582726062007@news.giganews.com> >>> >> >> >> >> >>In article >>> >> >> >> >> >><Jason-2506071038350001@66-52-22-83.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net>, >>> >> >> >> >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> In article <5ea5jrF383thsU1@mid.individual.net>, >>> >> >> >> >> >>> "Robibnikoff" >>> >> >> >> >> >>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > snip >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > > If they read their Bibles, they will know all about >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > > the >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > > true >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > > God. >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> >>> > What makes your god the "true" one? >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>> Books have been written on that subject. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >>I read books on Greek mythology. Does that mean that Zeus >>> >> >> >> >> >>is >>> >> >> >> >> >>the >>> >> >> >> >> >>true >>> >> >> >> >> >>god? >>> >> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> >> > Of course. >>> >> >> >> >> > The non-existent Zeus can kick the non-existent YHWH's butt >>> >> >> >> >> > any >>> >> >> >> >> > time! >>> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> True, but as a long-time fan of Norse mythology, I think Odin >>> >> >> >> >> could >>> >> >> >> >> give >>> >> >> >> >> Zeus a run for his money >>> >> >> >> > >>> >> >> >> > I don't know. Maybe we could get all the gods in an arena and >>> >> >> >> > let >>> >> >> >> > them >>> >> >> >> > fight it out to see who's the toughest non-existent being. >>> >> >> >> > Sort of >>> >> >> >> > a >>> >> >> >> > divine bum fight. :-) >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> LOL! Diety Death Match? Who knows how to do claymation? >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > LOL! I wish I knew how! I'd love to put something like that on >>> >> >> > YouTube. >>> >> >> > :-) >>> >> >> >>> >> >> That would be hilarious >>> >> > >>> >> >Heh! Heh! Tag team. Yaweh and Baal vs. Zeus and The FSM. :-) >>> >> >>> >> With Xena & Hera for spice! >>> > >>> >And Aphrodite (in her nightie) and Astarte! >>> >>> Let's Party! >>> >>> ding ding >>> >>> "Round Won" >> >> Can I get in on round two, or better round threesome? > >Deary me. This concept certainly went downhill No heckling from the old biddies in the audience, please! ding ding! Round Too. -- Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:02:06 -0500, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: - Refer: <bpal83taih71ub9kiiahs3238r7vhr1d4q@4ax.com> >In alt.atheism On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:51:19 -0700, Jason@nospam.com : >>According to the Nov/2004 issue of National Geographic, evolution >>is a theory. > > So's gravity. > > Why do you keep forgetting that? Why are you so dishonest? Acquired brain damage is the best guess. -- Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 17:43:25 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >We learned from our mistakes. Have you seen any evidence of the things >that you mentioned during your life time? World War II. Bosnia. > >I see it different. I see evolutionists that that rush to court to stop >any school systems from teaching Intelligent Design. From teaching religious belief as science - because it isn't. >I see liberals rushing to court to force cities and counties to remove >crosses on government property. Because they're a Constitutional violation. >Many of those crosses have been in place >for over 100 years. Slavery was also "in place" for over 100 years. That didn't make it right. Government-supported religion is not only not right, it's not legal. > However, those liberals will be able to find a liberal >judge that bases his decisions on personal policy preferences instead of >established laws. If the Constitution isn't "established law", this country has no laws. >I see the Supreme Court making a decision indicating that unborn children >do not have the Right To Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. No one legally has those rights, born or not. >Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life down here. Not among most Christians, at any rate. Quote
Guest Don Kresch Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 In alt.atheism On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:44:47 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) let us all know that: >In article <H5qdnU_4BMCgXBfbnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." ><spam@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <duqdnZMbs7B3NBfbnZ2dnUVZ_qOpnZ2d@sti.net>, "David >> > V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> >> >>> It's my opinion that if evolutionists honestly believed >> >>> that childen would laugh at creation science and would >> >>> understand that evolution made much more sense than >> >>> creation science--that they would not ever be concerned >> >>> when many school systems started teaching intelligent >> >>> design. >> >> >> >> Your opinion, as usual, is not based on reality. >> >> >> >> Creationism is not a science, it is a religious dogma. It >> >> has no place in public schools or in any science class. >> >> >> >> ID is not a science, it is a religious dogma. It has no >> >> place in public schools or in any science class. >> >> >> >> Is there some simpler way I can explain it so that you will >> >> understand? >> > >> > Dave, See my post to Bob. >> >> No. There are way too many postings in this thread. I'm not going >> to waste my time searching for your reply to someone else. >> >> Are you willing to concede that evolution is a fact? > >Hello, >Please read the following report. No. Please stop spamming the same bullshit over and over. Especially please stop thinking that using ministers as a source will win us over. Don --- aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" Quote
Guest Michael Gray Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:05:48 -0700, Frank Mayhar <frank@exit.com> wrote: - Refer: <pan.2007.07.03.20.05.44@exit.com> >On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:39:11 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> In article <pan.2007.07.03.17.04.58@exit.com>, Frank Mayhar >> <frank@exit.com> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:02:39 -0700, Jason wrote: >>> > The evolution section of the biology class was a waste of time. >>> >>> Flunked, did you? >> >> I received an A grade. > >Suuure you did. What would YOU do if you had the misfortune to be assigned to educate Jason? If it were me, I'd make damn sure that I did not allow him to repeat a year in my class! -- Quote
Guest Don Kresch Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 In alt.atheism On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:44:14 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) let us all know that: >In article <bpal83taih71ub9kiiahs3238r7vhr1d4q@4ax.com>, Don Kresch ><ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > >> In alt.atheism On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:51:19 -0700, Jason@nospam.com >> (Jason) let us all know that: >> >> >In article <X46dnUEQvdYw_xfbnZ2dnUVZ_tOmnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." >> ><spam@hotmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Martin wrote: >> >> > On Jul 3, 2:00 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> In article <MY2dnSWMf5V_ShTbnZ2dnUVZ_vjin...@sti.net>, >> >> >> "David V." >> >> >> >> >> >> <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>> Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>> If the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled life >> >> >>>> form--we all would have seen these words on the cover of >> >> >>>> National Geographic magazine: >> >> >> >> >> >>>> EVOLUTION FINALLY PROVED TO BE A FACT >> >> >> >> >> >>> Do you know why you'll never see those words? Evolution >> >> >>> has been proven as a fact for some time now. The only >> >> >>> objections are religious. >> >> >> >> >> >> Evolution is a theory >> >> > >> >> >> but >> >> > >> >> >> On Jun 27, 2:34 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> We are in agreement--evolution is a theory. Yes, the theory >> >> >> explains the facts that are backed up with evidence. >> >> >> >> Evolution is a fact. It happened, and is happening now. That is >> >> not a theory, that's a fact. The explanation of how evolution >> >> happened is a theory, but you have to remember that >> >> anti-evolutionists the word "theory" ALWAYS means a "guess". They >> >> purposely, and dishonestly, use the wrong meaning of the word. >> > >> >According to the Nov/2004 issue of National Geographic, evolution >> >is a theory. >> >> So's gravity. >> >> Why do you keep forgetting that? Why are you so dishonest? >I am not being dishonest. You are. Gravity's a theory, too. What do you have to say about that? Don --- aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert. "No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another" Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man" Quote
Guest Jason Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 In article <1183507567.422866.312360@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jul 4, 4:25 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > Kerby Anderson is National Director of Probe Ministries International. He > > received his B.S. from Oregon State University, M.F.S. from Yale > > University, and M.A. from Georgetown University. He is the author of > > several books, including Genetic Engineering, Origin Science, Living > > Ethically in the 90s, Signs of Warning, Signs of Hope, Moral Dilemmas, and > > Christian Ethics in Plain Language. He also served as general editor for > > the Kregel Publications books Marriage, Family and Sexuality and > > Technology, Spirituality, & Social Trends. He is a nationally syndicated > > columnist whose editorials have appeared in the Dallas Morning News, the > > Miami Herald, the San Jose Mercury, and the Houston Post. He is the host > > of the "Probe" radio program, and frequently serves as host on "Point of > > View" (USA Radio Network). > > > > What is Probe? > > > > Probe Ministries is a non-profit ministry whose mission is to assist the > > church in renewing the minds of believers with a Christian worldview and > > to equip the church to engage the world for Christ. > > Before we read your article, you must first give us a reason to > believe a single word that this lying Christian bastard has to say! > > Martin Martin, Several posters told me that one of the reasons they did not want Intelligent Design taught in the public schools is because they don't want teachers to teach lies and false information to students. Kerby Anderson provides evidence that lies and false information is already being taught to students in public schools. As of yet, no posters have indicated that they do not want historical revisionism taught to public school students. I suggest that you visit this site. These experts in physics are not Christians but are able to think outside the box. If you believe that Kerby is lying, check out the sources mentioned in the notes sections. http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/07/03/paul_davies/ jason Quote
Guest Ralph Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-0307071750070001@66-52-22-115.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > In article <1183507567.422866.312360@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> On Jul 4, 4:25 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> > Kerby Anderson is National Director of Probe Ministries International. >> > He >> > received his B.S. from Oregon State University, M.F.S. from Yale >> > University, and M.A. from Georgetown University. He is the author of >> > several books, including Genetic Engineering, Origin Science, Living >> > Ethically in the 90s, Signs of Warning, Signs of Hope, Moral Dilemmas, >> > and >> > Christian Ethics in Plain Language. He also served as general editor >> > for >> > the Kregel Publications books Marriage, Family and Sexuality and >> > Technology, Spirituality, & Social Trends. He is a nationally >> > syndicated >> > columnist whose editorials have appeared in the Dallas Morning News, >> > the >> > Miami Herald, the San Jose Mercury, and the Houston Post. He is the >> > host >> > of the "Probe" radio program, and frequently serves as host on "Point >> > of >> > View" (USA Radio Network). >> > >> > What is Probe? >> > >> > Probe Ministries is a non-profit ministry whose mission is to assist >> > the >> > church in renewing the minds of believers with a Christian worldview >> > and >> > to equip the church to engage the world for Christ. >> >> Before we read your article, you must first give us a reason to >> believe a single word that this lying Christian bastard has to say! >> >> Martin > > Martin, > Several posters told me that one of the reasons they did not want > Intelligent Design taught in the public schools is because they don't want > teachers to teach lies and false information to students. Kerby Anderson > provides evidence that lies and false information is already being taught > to students in public schools. As of yet, no posters have indicated that > they do not want historical revisionism taught to public school students. > > I suggest that you visit this site. These experts in physics are not > Christians but are able to think outside the box. > > If you believe that Kerby is lying, check out the sources mentioned in the > notes sections. > > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/07/03/paul_davies/ > > jason I don't know whether he is lying or not and frankly , I don't give a damn. We are discussing evolution, ID and creationism. Quote
Guest Jason Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 In article <x8udnX0VSPaRRBfbnZ2dnUVZ_tmknZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <xe6dndU8od_CTRfbnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@comcast.com>, John Popelish > > <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> > >>> I focused on the foxes (instead of the plants and animals) since I had > >>> just found a reference to foxes in the Old Testament. > >> "Foxes is a word used as a translation for some word in a > >> text written in some other language and probably that > >> earlier version was also a translation. You have no way of > >> knowing what actual animal was being referred to in the > >> original version. It might have been a badger, a beaver, a > >> coyote or a rat, for all you know. Carl Linnaeus had not > >> yet provided a logical classification scheme to these early > >> writers, so you have no way of knowing what they were > >> actually referring to. > >> http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/linnaeus.html > > > > You are correct. Fox is mentioned in the old testament so I found out the > > Hebrew word that was used. The word was shoo-awl' which means--a jackal > > (as a burrower):--fox. > > Okay, how do you know that the modern jackal is any better > translation than fox is? Nobody took a photo of the animal > being discussed when the original words were first written > down. About all you might say is that it was some burrowing > animal. I pick rabbit! Regardless, this shows the Bible is > useless as a source of evidence for or against evolution. > > So, does this mean that you are going to admit that because > the English translator of the Bible you read, substituted > the name of some modern animal for something he was > translating, that you can't use that as evidence to show > that a particular line of animals has not changed since old > testament times? Or am I going to have to remind you of > this again? > > If you find a skeleton, pelt, or tooth (or even a cave > drawing) from 3000 years ago, you will have at least a bit > of actual evidence of some actual animal (or observation of > some animal) from that period. That is how biological > history is revealed. > > Translated copies (several successive translations) of > tribal mythology that was passed down for many generations > by word of mouth before it was ever put into written form, > is not something that can be used to compare modern animals > to ancient ones. John, Thanks for your post. In this case, the translators could have used the word fox or jackal or most any other animal that is a burrower. In most cases, the context is used to determine the best animal to use. Yes, I agree that a 3000 year old skeleton would be superior to any information from a book in regard to determining whether an animal (eg fox) living in those times was similar or different than animals living today. However, if there are no 3000 year old fox skeletons--the info. from books such as the Old Testament is better than nothing. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 In article <gaml83tsmduop5lfbcrprqhun5qna8odls@4ax.com>, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote: > On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:02:39 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >In article <mdmj83phkn2ick9iivtuffc3tff4s430ti@4ax.com>, John Baker > ><nunya@bizniz.net> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 00:45:20 -0000, Martin Phipps > >> <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > >> >On Jul 3, 1:45 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> In article <1183367570.892102.301...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > >> >> Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >> > On Jul 2, 12:17 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> >> > > In article <rPGdnUEMCJsZ5BXbnZ2dnUVZ_h_in...@comcast.com>, John > >Popelish > >> >> > > <jpopel...@rica.net> wrote: > >> >> > > > Jason wrote: > >> >> > > > > In article <DtidnbMBPbT77hXbnZ2dnUVZ_t3in...@sti.net>, "David V." > >> >> > > > > <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > > > >> Jason wrote: > >> >> > > > >>> Question for group: Martin told me that single animal cells > >> >> > > > >>> evolved into animal cell colonies. If that is true, how do you > >> >> > > > >>> explain this: > >> >> > >> >> > > > >>> Single-celled Transformers: Marine Phytoplankton Changes Form > >> >> > > > >>> To Protect Itself > >> >> > > > >> It's called evolution, something you refuse to understand. > >> >> > >> >> > > > > or reverse evolution > >> >> > >> >> > > > What is your working definition of "reverse evolution"? > >> >> > >> >> > > an example: > >> >> > > cell colony reverse evolving into single cells > >> >> > >> >> > > This is the list that Martin posted--please notice that (as per > >evolution) > >> >> > > a single cell evolving into a cell colony. The article that I posted > >> >> > > provided evidence of a cell colony reverse evolving into single cells. > >> >> > >> >> > Not at all, Jason. That's like saying that a frog de-evolves back > >> >> > into a fish every time it goes for a swim. > >> > > >> >> In order for evolution to happen the way that you stated it happened, a > >> >> cell colony would have to remain a cell colony before the next step of > >> >> evolution would take place--true or false? > >> > > >> >False. Evolution is about diversity, not upward progress. You > >> >learned nothing in your biology class in college. > >> > >> I seriously doubt that Jason actually went to college. > >> > >> > >> > > >> >Martin > > > >The evolution section of the biology class was a waste of time. > > > So you were one of those snot-nosed brats who thought he knew more > than his professor, eh? <G> > > > > > No, I just wanted to study hard and pass. I never argued with that professor. I was told by advisers to never have arguments with professors since it could have an effect upon the final grades. I did argue with one professor but it was related to a seminar that did not involve grades. The title of the seminar was Evolution versus Creation. That was the same professor that later debated Dr. Gish. Jason Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Jul 4, 4:23 am, "Bob T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > Here is an interesting interview with a physicist who has a view that > is neither Christian nor atheist: Actually, he states quite clearly that he doesn't believe in "a pre- existing cosmic magician who is there within time, for all eternity, and then brings the universe into being as part of a preconceived plan". > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/07/03/paul_davies/ Well, his argument comes down to "We observe that we are here so it should come as no surprise that the universe is fit to support life." That's something Carl Sagan said. The difference is that he is making a causal statement, that the universe is fit to support life BECAUSE we are here. Unfortunately, the mechanism for which this occurs is unclear, Hawking made this statement specifically for the second law of thermodynamics, saying that the second law of thermodynamics exists because that is what our brains observe, the idea being that our brains are biological machines incapable of seeing the universe any other way. Davies is saying that our minds affect how the universe really is and not how we see it and, well, that IS a bit far fetched. The basic problem I can see with it is that we observe more than our own existance, we also observe everything around us: if we observe the moon circuling the Earth then of course the law of gravity must obey an inverse square law or else that can't happen. Thing is, the same fact is true with every subsequent observation we make: we don't see the laws of physics change every time we make an observation. If the universe began as a singularity then, yes, quantum mechanics can be called upon to explain the laws of physics we observe today. His point about the Heisenberg Uncertainty allowing for an infinite amount of energy being available at the beginning of time is well taken too. To me, however, it seems irrelevent whether we imagine a causal loop created the universe or if there is an infinite number of multiverses out there with different physics: the fact is we are here and we wouldn't be asking these questions if we weren't. Has anybody considered the possibility that if the big bang happened and gravity was too strong and the universe collapsed back down into a singularity then, damn it, the big bang could have happened again and again and again until finally we get the galaxy formation we know and love? That works for me. Martin Quote
Guest John Siegel Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 David V. wrote: > Jason wrote: > >> In article <duqdnZMbs7B3NBfbnZ2dnUVZ_qOpnZ2d@sti.net>, "David V." >> <spam@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> Jason wrote: >>> >>>> It's my opinion that if evolutionists honestly believed that childen >>>> would laugh at creation science and would understand that evolution >>>> made much more sense than creation science--that they would not ever >>>> be concerned when many school systems started teaching intelligent >>>> design. >>> >>> >>> Your opinion, as usual, is not based on reality. >>> >>> Creationism is not a science, it is a religious dogma. It has no >>> place in public schools or in any science class. >>> >>> ID is not a science, it is a religious dogma. It has no place in >>> public schools or in any science class. >>> >>> Is there some simpler way I can explain it so that you will >>> understand? >> >> >> Dave, See my post to Bob. > > > No. There are way too many postings in this thread. I'm not going > to waste my time searching for your reply to someone else. > > Are you willing to concede that evolution is a fact? I still have a hard time beieving that Jason is a fact and not a pretender. I wonder what he would say about the evidence for ongoing evolution of humans? Quote
Guest Jason Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 In article <1183505253.284337.23600@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com>, "Bob T." <bob@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > On Jul 3, 1:37 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <4fyii.62$yD2...@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > > > > > > > > > > > > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > > >news:Jason-0307071304140001@66-52-22-78.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > > In article <1183487937.178514.180...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > > > >> On Jul 3, 10:44 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > In article <1183472999.969640.255...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > > >> > "Bob > > > > > >> > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > >> > > On Jul 2, 9:37 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > > In article > > > > <1183427713.076508.130...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > > On Jul 3, 4:44 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > evidence supports creation science and does not support > > > >> > > > > > evolution. > > > >> > If the > > > >> > > > > > the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled life form--that > > > >> > would have > > > >> > > > > > supported evolution theory. > > > > > >> > > > > Nice to see you admit that. > > > > > >> > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_multicellularity > > > > > >> > > > > "The advantage of the Colonial Theory hypothesis is that it has > > > >> > > > > been > > > >> > > > > seen to occur independently numerous times (in 16 different > > > >> > > > > protoctistan phyla). For instance, Dictyostelium is an amoeba > > > >> > > > > which > > > >> > > > > groups together during times of food shortage, forming a colony > > > >> > > > > that > > > >> > > > > moves as one to a new location. Some of these amoeba then become > > > >> > > > > slightly differentiated from each other. Other examples of > > > >> > > > > colonial > > > >> > > > > organisation in protozoa are Eudorina and Volvox (the latter of > > > >> > > > > which > > > >> > > > > consist around 10,000 cells, only about 25-35 which reproduce - 8 > > > >> > > > > asexually and around 15-25 sexually). It can often be hard to > > > >> > > > > tell, > > > >> > > > > however, what is a colonial protist and what is a multicellular > > > >> > > > > organism in its own right. > > > > > >> > > > > "Most scientists accept that is by the Colonial theory that > > > >> > > > > Multicellular organisms evolved." > > > > > >> > > > > Martin > > > > > >> > > > If the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled life form--we > > > > all would > > > >> > > > have seen these words on the cover of National Geographic magazine: > > > > > >> > > > EVOLUTION > > > >> > > > FINALLY > > > >> > > > PROVED > > > >> > > > TO BE > > > >> > > > A FACT > > > > > >> > > > Since the cell colony did not evolve into a multicelled life form, > > > >> > > > this > > > >> > > > story and similar stories will be ignored and explained away in > > > >> > > > much the > > > >> > > > same way that posters explained away this story. > > > > > >> > > I wish I had access to your bathroom mirror, so I could write > > > >> > > "Evolution takes a long time" on it. Without that reminder, you seem > > > >> > > to forget that obvious fact every day. > > > > > >> > > Cell colonies _did_ evolve into multi-celled life - humans, cats, > > > >> > > walruses and lobsters are all the result of cell colonies evolving > > > >> > > into multi-celled life. > > > > > >> > > - Bob T. > > > > > >> > An alternative theory is that God created all of the transitional > > > >> > forms. > > > > > >> That is the basic theory of theistic evolution that I have presented > > > >> to you several times. The physical evidence for evolution in the > > > >> history of life on this planet is overwhelming. We know that humans > > > >> share a common ancestor with chimpanzees a few millions years ago. > > > >> The genetic evidence, the physical evidence of our bodies, and the > > > >> fossil evidence all agree that humans are members of the ape family. > > > >> However, science cannot deny the possibility that God has been > > > >> carefully nurturing the primates encouraging the development of > > > >> creatures that have true intelligence. In this view, Adam and Eve > > > >> represent our first "truly human" ancestors, the ones who first became > > > >> aware of God. > > > > > >> There is no need to deny God or Jesus to accept evolution as the well- > > > >> founded scientific fast that it is. All you have to do is realize > > > >> that the Bible was written by fallible people who lived thousands of > > > >> years ago. Of course they didn't understand how God created us. If > > > >> He had explained that He created us through genetics they would not > > > >> have understood a word of it. > > > > > >> Worldwide, a majority of educated Christians believe in something like > > > >> the theory of "theistic evolution" that I have outlined above. Unlike > > > >> you, most Christians see fit to deny the physical evidence in order to > > > >> believe in God. They assume that God is a mystery, and that they will > > > >> never really understand His ways. They do, however, assume that the > > > >> physical evidence is honest - that the evidence of millions of fossils > > > >> agree with the geological and genetic evidence shows that we humans > > > >> evolved naturally over a very long time from single-celled creatures. > > > >> They feel no need to read Genesis literally, and they do not doubt > > > >> their faith in Jesus. > > > > > >> - Bob T. > > > > > > Bob, > > > > Thanks for your post. Yes, many Christians believe in thestic evolution. I > > > > visited a Christian website and found out that some of the Christians now > > > > use the terms macro-evolution and micro-evolution. They accept and support > > > > micro-evolution and do not support macro-evolution. Is it your opinion > > > > that micro-evolution is similar to theistic evolution? > > > > Jason > > > > > Not at all Jason. Theistic evolution is evolution, period. Macro and micro > > > are not separate in TE. I don't know how limited your research is but you > > > need to go back to Google. > > > > Thanks for your post. Are you stating that those people that support > > Theistic evolution do not believe that God created mankind but instead > > believe that God created cells that eventually evolved into mankind? > > Yes. > > > > If so, they should just say they support evolution and leave God out of it > > since their beliefs conflict with the first two chapters of the Bible. > > Why should any Christian, no matter how devout, believe that the first > two chapters of the Bible are literal truth? Forgive an atheist from > telling a Christian what's important, but it seems to me that the > message of forgiveness via Jesus Christ is important, and the accuracy > of the Genesis story is not important, in terms of being a true > Christian. Genesis has a lot in common with the mythology of other > ancient people. Why would you expect Bronze Age tribespeople to > understand God's explanation of how He created them? > > - Bob T. Bob, The first two chapters in the Bible are about the only information in the entire Bible related to how life came to be on this planet. I was taught that information many years ago. I believed it in those days and I still believe it. The terms macroevolution and microevolution are used by lots of people today. I have no problems supporting microevolution. The advocates of creation science use the term "adaption". It's my opinion that microevolution and adaption mean the same thing. Yes, the message of forgiveness via Jesus Christ is more important. However, creation is also important. I know two people that spent their adult lives related to telling Christians the importance of creation science. They realized the importance of creation science. jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 In article <1183505961.078603.48780@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin Phipps <martinphipps2@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Jul 4, 1:44 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > In article <1183472999.969640.255...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > On Jul 2, 9:37 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > In article <1183427713.076508.130...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jul 3, 4:44 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > > > > > evidence supports creation science and does not support evolution. > > If the > > > > > > the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled life form--that > > would have > > > > > > supported evolution theory. > > > > > > > Nice to see you admit that. > > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_multicellularity > > > > > > > "The advantage of the Colonial Theory hypothesis is that it has been > > > > > seen to occur independently numerous times (in 16 different > > > > > protoctistan phyla). For instance, Dictyostelium is an amoeba which > > > > > groups together during times of food shortage, forming a colony that > > > > > moves as one to a new location. Some of these amoeba then become > > > > > slightly differentiated from each other. Other examples of colonial > > > > > organisation in protozoa are Eudorina and Volvox (the latter of which > > > > > consist around 10,000 cells, only about 25-35 which reproduce - 8 > > > > > asexually and around 15-25 sexually). It can often be hard to tell, > > > > > however, what is a colonial protist and what is a multicellular > > > > > organism in its own right. > > > > > > > "Most scientists accept that is by the Colonial theory that > > > > > Multicellular organisms evolved." > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > If the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled life form--we all would > > > > have seen these words on the cover of National Geographic magazine: > > > > > > EVOLUTION > > > > FINALLY > > > > PROVED > > > > TO BE > > > > A FACT > > > > > > Since the cell colony did not evolve into a multicelled life form, this > > > > story and similar stories will be ignored and explained away in much the > > > > same way that posters explained away this story. > > > > > I wish I had access to your bathroom mirror, so I could write > > > "Evolution takes a long time" on it. Without that reminder, you seem > > > to forget that obvious fact every day. > > > > > Cell colonies _did_ evolve into multi-celled life - humans, cats, > > > walruses and lobsters are all the result of cell colonies evolving > > > into multi-celled life. > > > > An alternative theory is that God created all of the transitional forms. > > But that's not a theory based on any facts nor backed up with > evidence. > > > On Jun 27, 2:34 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > We are in agreement--evolution is a theory. Yes, the theory > > explains the facts that are backed up with evidence. > > Martin Some of the aspects of abiogenesis are not backed up with evidence--does that stop you from supporting abiogenesis? Quote
Guest John Popelish Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 Jason wrote: > John, > Thanks for your post. In this case, the translators could have used the > word fox or jackal or most any other animal that is a burrower. In most > cases, the context is used to determine the best animal to use. > > Yes, I agree that a 3000 year old skeleton would be superior to any > information from a book in regard to determining whether an animal (eg > fox) living in those times was similar or different than animals living > today. However, if there are no 3000 year old fox skeletons--the info. > from books such as the Old Testament is better than nothing. > Jason Not even close to useful to show that a particular line of animals has or has not evolved since 3000 years ago. (That was the point you were making with this reference.) If you find a word that was translated as fox for the King James Bible, but may have meant jackal but probably just meant some kind of borrowing animal, so you can't tell fox from muskrat from rabbit from chipmunk from groundhog from something else that has since gone extinct, that is not a reference to prove anything about comparative anatomy. Give it up. Its just silly. By the way, it is obvious that you have zero respect for people who actually spend their lives finding those 3000 year old (or whatever age) skeletons and fossils and evaluating how they are similar and different from what is living today. Quote
Guest David V. Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 Martin Phipps wrote: > On Jul 4, 1:47 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> In article <A5idnfhzXpow_BfbnZ2dnUVZ_hWdn...@sti.net>, >> "David V." >> >> >> >> >> >> <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Jason wrote: >>> >>>> "David > V." <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>> Jason wrote: >> >>>>>> If the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled >>>>>> life form--we all would have seen these words on the >>>>>> cover of National Geographic magazine: >> >>>>>> EVOLUTION FINALLY PROVED TO BE A FACT >> >>>>> Do you know why you'll never see those words? >>>>> Evolution has been proven as a fact for some time now. >>>>> The only objections are religious. >> >>>> Evolution is a theory >> >>> Evolution is a fact. Get over it. >> >>> ...... >>> Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts >>> and theories are different things, not rungs in a >>> hierarchy of increasing certainty. ..... >> [snip for brevity] >>> - Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"; >>> Discover, May 1981 >> >> Does Stephen Gould believe that evolution is an imperfect >> fact? > > > Why don't you read what he says. You should understand it: > you got an A in college biology, remember? XD I have absolutely no doubt that he read none of it and understood even less of it. -- Dave "Sacred cows make the best hamburger." Mark Twain. Quote
Guest David V. Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 John Siegel wrote: > > > David V. wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> >>> In article <duqdnZMbs7B3NBfbnZ2dnUVZ_qOpnZ2d@sti.net>, >>> "David V." <spam@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Jason wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's my opinion that if evolutionists honestly >>>>> believed that childen would laugh at creation science >>>>> and would understand that evolution made much more >>>>> sense than creation science--that they would not ever >>>>> be concerned when many school systems started teaching >>>>> intelligent design. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Your opinion, as usual, is not based on reality. >>>> >>>> Creationism is not a science, it is a religious dogma. >>>> It has no place in public schools or in any science >>>> class. >>>> >>>> ID is not a science, it is a religious dogma. It has no >>>> place in public schools or in any science class. >>>> >>>> Is there some simpler way I can explain it so that you >>>> will understand? >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave, See my post to Bob. >> >> No. There are way too many postings in this thread. I'm not >> going to waste my time searching for your reply to someone >> else. >> >> Are you willing to concede that evolution is a fact? > > I still have a hard time beieving that Jason is a fact and not > a pretender. He has a lot of the traits of a troll. > I wonder what he would say about the evidence for ongoing > evolution of humans? Unless a preacher said it he wouldn't believe it. -- Dave "Sacred cows make the best hamburger." Mark Twain. Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Jul 4, 4:37 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <4fyii.62$yD2...@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-0307071304140001@66-52-22-78.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <1183487937.178514.180...@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, "Bob > > > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jul 3, 10:44 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > In article <1183472999.969640.255...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > >> > "Bob > > > >> > T." <b...@synapse-cs.com> wrote: > > >> > > On Jul 2, 9:37 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > > > In article > > > <1183427713.076508.130...@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > >> > > > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >> > > > > On Jul 3, 4:44 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > > > > evidence supports creation science and does not support > > >> > > > > > evolution. > > >> > If the > > >> > > > > > the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled life form--that > > >> > would have > > >> > > > > > supported evolution theory. > > > >> > > > > Nice to see you admit that. > > > >> > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_multicellularity > > > >> > > > > "The advantage of the Colonial Theory hypothesis is that it has > > >> > > > > been > > >> > > > > seen to occur independently numerous times (in 16 different > > >> > > > > protoctistan phyla). For instance, Dictyostelium is an amoeba > > >> > > > > which > > >> > > > > groups together during times of food shortage, forming a colony > > >> > > > > that > > >> > > > > moves as one to a new location. Some of these amoeba then become > > >> > > > > slightly differentiated from each other. Other examples of > > >> > > > > colonial > > >> > > > > organisation in protozoa are Eudorina and Volvox (the latter of > > >> > > > > which > > >> > > > > consist around 10,000 cells, only about 25-35 which reproduce - 8 > > >> > > > > asexually and around 15-25 sexually). It can often be hard to > > >> > > > > tell, > > >> > > > > however, what is a colonial protist and what is a multicellular > > >> > > > > organism in its own right. > > > >> > > > > "Most scientists accept that is by the Colonial theory that > > >> > > > > Multicellular organisms evolved." > > > >> > > > > Martin > > > >> > > > If the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled life form--we > > > all would > > >> > > > have seen these words on the cover of National Geographic magazine: > > > >> > > > EVOLUTION > > >> > > > FINALLY > > >> > > > PROVED > > >> > > > TO BE > > >> > > > A FACT > > > >> > > > Since the cell colony did not evolve into a multicelled life form, > > >> > > > this > > >> > > > story and similar stories will be ignored and explained away in > > >> > > > much the > > >> > > > same way that posters explained away this story. > > > >> > > I wish I had access to your bathroom mirror, so I could write > > >> > > "Evolution takes a long time" on it. Without that reminder, you seem > > >> > > to forget that obvious fact every day. > > > >> > > Cell colonies _did_ evolve into multi-celled life - humans, cats, > > >> > > walruses and lobsters are all the result of cell colonies evolving > > >> > > into multi-celled life. > > > >> > > - Bob T. > > > >> > An alternative theory is that God created all of the transitional > > >> > forms. > > > >> That is the basic theory of theistic evolution that I have presented > > >> to you several times. The physical evidence for evolution in the > > >> history of life on this planet is overwhelming. We know that humans > > >> share a common ancestor with chimpanzees a few millions years ago. > > >> The genetic evidence, the physical evidence of our bodies, and the > > >> fossil evidence all agree that humans are members of the ape family. > > >> However, science cannot deny the possibility that God has been > > >> carefully nurturing the primates encouraging the development of > > >> creatures that have true intelligence. In this view, Adam and Eve > > >> represent our first "truly human" ancestors, the ones who first became > > >> aware of God. > > > >> There is no need to deny God or Jesus to accept evolution as the well- > > >> founded scientific fast that it is. All you have to do is realize > > >> that the Bible was written by fallible people who lived thousands of > > >> years ago. Of course they didn't understand how God created us. If > > >> He had explained that He created us through genetics they would not > > >> have understood a word of it. > > > >> Worldwide, a majority of educated Christians believe in something like > > >> the theory of "theistic evolution" that I have outlined above. Unlike > > >> you, most Christians see fit to deny the physical evidence in order to > > >> believe in God. They assume that God is a mystery, and that they will > > >> never really understand His ways. They do, however, assume that the > > >> physical evidence is honest - that the evidence of millions of fossils > > >> agree with the geological and genetic evidence shows that we humans > > >> evolved naturally over a very long time from single-celled creatures. > > >> They feel no need to read Genesis literally, and they do not doubt > > >> their faith in Jesus. > > > >> - Bob T. > > > > Bob, > > > Thanks for your post. Yes, many Christians believe in thestic evolution. I > > > visited a Christian website and found out that some of the Christians now > > > use the terms macro-evolution and micro-evolution. They accept and support > > > micro-evolution and do not support macro-evolution. Is it your opinion > > > that micro-evolution is similar to theistic evolution? > > > Jason > > > Not at all Jason. Theistic evolution is evolution, period. Macro and micro > > are not separate in TE. I don't know how limited your research is but you > > need to go back to Google. > > Thanks for your post. Are you stating that those people that support > Theistic evolution do not believe that God created mankind but instead > believe that God created cells that eventually evolved into mankind? > > If so, they should just say they support evolution and leave God out of it > since their beliefs conflict with the first two chapters of the Bible. No rational person believes in Biblical literalism. GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness. GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day. GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created. GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created. GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created. GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created. GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created. GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created. GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time. GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later. GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction. LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.) GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation. GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation. (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.) GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses. EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses. GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit. GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years. GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil. HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil. GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's. 2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike. GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view. GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god. EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire. EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god. LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing. NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce. 2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it." EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him." 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love. GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord. JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth. GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood. GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood. NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood. GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind. NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind. GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark. GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark. GE 7:1 Noah was righteous. JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous. LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous. JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective). 1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians). RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous. GE 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark. GE 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?). GE 11:7-9 God sows discord. PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord. GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world. 1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion. GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah. LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah. GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born. GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time). GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years. GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen. EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him. GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel. GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel. GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings. JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing. GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac. HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son. GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God. JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots. GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting. GA 6:15 It is of no consequence. GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled. GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings. LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong. GE 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view. GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring. 2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous." GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses. JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt). 1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations. JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one. GE 27:28 "May God give you ... an abundance of grain and new wine." DT 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine. PS 104:15 God gives us wine to gladden the heart. JE 13:12 "... every bottle shall be filled with wine." JN 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus' first miracle was turning water to wine. RO 14:21 It is good to refrain from drinking wine. GE 35:10 God says Jacob is to be called Jacob no longer; henceforth his name is Israel. GE 46:2 At a later time, God himself uses the name Jacob. GE 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz. GE 36:15-16 Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz. 1CH 1:35-36 Teman, Omar, Zephi, Gatam, Kenaz, Timna, and Amalek. GE 49:2-28 The fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel are: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin. RE 7:4-8 (Leaves out the tribe of Dan, but adds Manasseh.) GE 50:13 Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah bought from Ephron the Hittite. AC 7:15-16 He was buried in the sepulchre at Shechem, bought from the sons of Hamor. from http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Jul 4, 4:44 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <bpal83taih71ub9kiiahs3238r7vhr1...@4ax.com>, Don Kresch > > > > > > <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > > In alt.atheism On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:51:19 -0700, J...@nospam.com > > (Jason) let us all know that: > > > >In article <X46dnUEQvdYw_xfbnZ2dnUVZ_tOmn...@sti.net>, "David V." > > ><s...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Martin wrote: > > >> > On Jul 3, 2:00 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> >> In article <MY2dnSWMf5V_ShTbnZ2dnUVZ_vjin...@sti.net>, > > >> >> "David V." > > > >> >> <s...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >>> Jason wrote: > > > >> >>>> If the cell colony had evolved into a multicelled life > > >> >>>> form--we all would have seen these words on the cover of > > >> >>>> National Geographic magazine: > > > >> >>>> EVOLUTION FINALLY PROVED TO BE A FACT > > > >> >>> Do you know why you'll never see those words? Evolution > > >> >>> has been proven as a fact for some time now. The only > > >> >>> objections are religious. > > > >> >> Evolution is a theory > > > >> >> but > > > >> >> On Jun 27, 2:34 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> >> We are in agreement--evolution is a theory. Yes, the theory > > >> >> explains the facts that are backed up with evidence. > > > >> Evolution is a fact. It happened, and is happening now. That is > > >> not a theory, that's a fact. The explanation of how evolution > > >> happened is a theory, but you have to remember that > > >> anti-evolutionists the word "theory" ALWAYS means a "guess". They > > >> purposely, and dishonestly, use the wrong meaning of the word. > > > >According to the Nov/2004 issue of National Geographic, evolution > > >is a theory. > > > So's gravity. > > > Why do you keep forgetting that? Why are you so dishonest? > > I am not being dishonest. Were the editors and writers of the article in > National Geographic being dishonest when they used the term "the theory of > evolution". I challenge you to google "theory of evolution". You will > receive lots of hits. Even my dictionary refers to evolution as a theory. http://users.ameritech.net/dennisreynolds1/GravitationalTheory.html You are being dishonest. "Gravitational theory" gets 2,000,000 hits on google and is no small fraction of the hits that "Evolutionary theory" gets. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Jul 4, 5:12 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > I read about horse evolution in the article entitled, "Was Darwin Wrong" > that was published in the Nov/2004 issue of National Geographic. But note that... On Jun 12, 8:45 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > The title of thearticlewas > WASDARWINWRONG? > the answer was: > No--the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. Martin Quote
Guest Martin Phipps Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Jul 4, 5:16 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <0uyii.74$yD2...@bignews1.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" > <mmman...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Jason" <J...@nospam.com> wrote in message > >news:Jason-0207072312460001@66-52-22-115.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... > > > In article <1183442128.284710.224...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Martin > > > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > >> On Jul 3, 12:49 pm, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >> > In article <1183429649.303081.290...@o11g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, > > >> > Martin > > >> > <phippsmar...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > On Jul 3, 9:34 am, Don Kresch <ROT13.qxer...@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote: > > >> > > > In alt.atheism On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 18:29:16 -0700, J...@nospam.com > > >> > > > (Jason) let us all know that: > > > >> > > > >Teachers have been teaching evolution in the public schools for > > >> > > > >over 35 > > >> > > > >years. Have you wondered how successful those high school teachers > > >> > > > >have > > >> > > > >been? > > > >> > > > They've also been teaching mathematics and that the Earth > > >> > > > is a > > >> > > > spheroid. > > > >> > > > >Answer: Only 12% of Americans believe that humans evolved from > > >> > > > >other > > >> > > > >life-forms without any involvement from a god. > > >> > > > >source: National Geographic Nov/2004 page 6 > > > >> > > > >It appears to me that more Americans agree with me than agree with > > >> > > > >the > > >> > > > >advocates of evolution. > > > >> > > > So what? > > > >> > > > > It also explains why evolutionists rush to court > > >> > > > >every time a school system wants to teach intelligent design. > > > >> > > > No it doesn't. > > > >> > > > Jason: would you support the teaching of "Flat-Earth > > >> > > > Theory" > > >> > > > in schools. Remember: it's a competing idea. It doesn't matter how > > >> > > > many people believe it: IT'S A COMPETING IDEA. > > > >> > > The flat Earth theory does get mentioned in schools and is followed > > >> > > by > > >> > > laughter. > > > >> > If a school system tried to teach the Flat Earth Theory, I would write > > >> > letters to each member of the school board and ask them to reconsider > > >> > their decision. > > > >> Explain why. Are you afraid that students might come to see that the > > >> flat Earth theory makes more sense? XD > > > I see creation science and ID as the truth and see Flat Earth Theory as a > > > lie. However, unlike the evolutionists, I would not rush to court. > > > Instead, I would write letters to the members of the school board. I wish > > > that evolutionists would do that instead of rushing to court. > > > Why would you wish that, Jason? If someone is breaking the law you don't beg > > them to stop, you report them to the proper authorities. > > Teaching false information is not a violation of the law--otherwise--all > history teachers that teach "historical revisionism" instead of historical > facts would be arrested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Laws_against_Holocaust_denial "Holocaust denial is illegal in a number of European countries. Many countries also have broader laws against libel or inciting racial hatred, as do a number of countries that do not specifically have laws against Holocaust denial, such as Canada and the United Kingdom. The Council of Europe's 2003 Additional Protocol to the Convention on Cyber Crime, concerning the criminalisation of acts of a racist and xenophobic nature committed through computer systems includes an article 6 titled Denial, gross minimisation, approval or justification of genocide or crimes against humanity, though this does not have the status of law." Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Jul 4, 5:23 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > There is a church in my town that has > liberal Christians. They support macro-evolution and abortion. I probably > know more about the Bible than the pastor of that church. The problem, Jason, is that, like everything else, you obviously know very little about your own Bible. GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness. GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day. GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created. GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created. GE 1:20-21, 26-27 Birds were created before man was created. GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before birds were created. GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created. GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created. GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time. GE 2:7, 21-22 Man was created first, woman sometime later. GE 1:28 God encourages reproduction. LE 12:1-8 God requires purification rites following childbirth which, in effect, makes childbirth a sin. (Note: The period for purification following the birth of a daughter is twice that for a son.) GE 1:31 God was pleased with his creation. GE 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation. (Note: That God should be displeased is inconsistent with the concept of omniscience.) GE 2:4, 4:26, 12:8, 22:14-16, 26:25 God was already known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) much earlier than the time of Moses. EX 6:2-3 God was first known as "the Lord" (Jahveh or Jehovah) at the time of the Egyptian Bondage, during the life of Moses. GE 2:17 Adam was to die the very day that he ate the forbidden fruit. GE 5:5 Adam lived 930 years. GE 2:15-17, 3:4-6 It is wrong to want to be able to tell good from evil. HE 5:13-14 It is immature to be unable to tell good from evil. GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's. 2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike. GE 4:9 God asks Cain where his brother Able is. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view. GE 4:15, DT 32:19-27, IS 34:8 God is a vengeful god. EX 15:3, IS 42:13, HE 12:29 God is a warrior. God is a consuming fire. EX 20:5, 34:14, DT 4:24, 5:9, 6:15, 29:20, 32:21 God is a jealous god. LE 26:7-8, NU 31:17-18, DT 20:16-17, JS 10:40, JG 14:19, EZ 9:5-7 The Spirit of God is (sometimes) murder and killing. NU 25:3-4, DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21, PS 7:11, 78:49, JE 4:8, 17:4, 32:30-31, ZP 2:2 God is angry. His anger is sometimes fierce. 2SA 22:7-8 (KJV) "I called to the Lord; ... he heard my voice; ... The earth trembled and quaked, ... because he was angry. Smoke came from his nostrils. Consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it." EZ 6:12, NA 1:2, 6 God is jealous and furious. He reserves wrath for, and takes revenge on, his enemies. "... who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? His fury is poured out like fire, and rocks are thrown down by him." 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is love. GA 5:22-23 The fruit of the Spirit of God is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. GE 4:16 Cain went away (or out) from the presence of the Lord. JE 23:23-24 A man cannot hide from God. God fills heaven and earth. GE 6:4 There were Nephilim (giants) before the Flood. GE 7:21 All creatures other than Noah and his clan were annihilated by the Flood. NU 13:33 There were Nephilim after the Flood. GE 6:6. EX 32:14, NU 14:20, 1SA 15:35, 2SA 24:16 God does change his mind. NU 23:19-20, 1SA 15:29, JA 1:17 God does not change his mind. GE 6:19-22, 7:8-9, 7:14-16 Two of each kind are to be taken, and are taken, aboard Noah's Ark. GE 7:2-5 Seven pairs of some kinds are to be taken (and are taken) aboard the Ark. GE 7:1 Noah was righteous. JB 1:1,8, JB 2:3 Job was righteous. LK 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous. JA 5:16 Some men are righteous, (which makes their prayers effective). 1JN 3:6-9 Christians become righteous (or else they are not really Christians). RO 3:10, 3:23, 1JN 1:8-10 No one was or is righteous. GE 7:7 Noah and his clan enter the Ark. GE 7:13 They enter the Ark (again?). GE 11:7-9 God sows discord. PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord. GE 11:9 At Babel, the Lord confused the language of the whole world. 1CO 14:33 Paul says that God is not the author of confusion. GE 11:12 Arpachshad [Arphaxad] was the father of Shelah. LK 3:35-36 Cainan was the father of Shelah. Arpachshad was the grandfather of Shelah. GE 11:26 Terah was 70 years old when his son Abram was born. GE 11:32 Terah was 205 years old when he died (making Abram 135 at the time). GE 12:4, AC 7:4 Abram was 75 when he left Haran. This was after Terah died. Thus, Terah could have been no more than 145 when he died; or Abram was only 75 years old after he had lived 135 years. GE 12:7, 17:1, 18:1, 26:2, 32:30, EX 3:16, 6:2-3, 24:9-11, 33:11, NU 12:7-8, 14:14, JB 42:5, AM 7:7-8, 9:1 God is seen. EX 33:20, JN 1:18, 1JN 4:12 God is not seen. No one can see God's face and live. No one has ever seen him. GE 10:5, 20, 31 There were many languages before the Tower of Babel. GE 11:1 There was only one language before the Tower of Babel. GE 15:9, EX 20:24, 29:10-42, LE 1:1-7:38, NU 28:1-29:40, God details sacrificial offerings. JE 7:21-22 God says he did no such thing. GE 16:15, 21:1-3, GA 4:22 Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac. HE 11:17 Abraham had only one son. GE 17:1, 35:11, 1CH 29:11-12, LK 1:37 God is omnipotent. Nothing is impossible with (or for) God. JG 1:19 Although God was with Judah, together they could not defeat the plainsmen because the latter had iron chariots. GE 17:7, 10-11 The covenant of circumcision is to be everlasting. GA 6:15 It is of no consequence. GE 17:8 God promises Abraham the land of Canaan as an "everlasting possession." GE 25:8, AC 7:2-5, HE 11:13 Abraham died with the promise unfulfilled. GE 17:15-16, 20:11-12, 22:17 Abraham and his half sister, Sarai, are married and receive God's blessings. LE 20:17, DT 27:20-23 Incest is wrong. GE 18:20-21 God decides to "go down" to see what is going on. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from his view. GE 19:30-38 While he is drunk, Lot's two daughters "lie with him," become pregnant, and give birth to his offspring. 2PE 2:7 Lot was "just" and "righteous." GE 22:1-12, DT 8:2 God tempts (tests) Abraham and Moses. JG 2:22 God himself says that he does test (tempt). 1CO 10:13 Paul says that God controls the extent of our temptations. JA 1:13 God tests (tempts) no one. GE 27:28 "May God give you ... an abundance of grain and new wine." DT 7:13 If they follow his commandments, God will bless the fruit of their wine. PS 104:15 God gives us wine to gladden the heart. JE 13:12 "... every bottle shall be filled with wine." JN 2:1-11 According to the author of John, Jesus' first miracle was turning water to wine. RO 14:21 It is good to refrain from drinking wine. GE 35:10 God says Jacob is to be called Jacob no longer; henceforth his name is Israel. GE 46:2 At a later time, God himself uses the name Jacob. GE 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz. GE 36:15-16 Teman, Omar, Zepho, Kenaz. 1CH 1:35-36 Teman, Omar, Zephi, Gatam, Kenaz, Timna, and Amalek. GE 49:2-28 The fathers of the twelve tribes of Israel are: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin. RE 7:4-8 (Leaves out the tribe of Dan, but adds Manasseh.) GE 50:13 Jacob was buried in a cave at Machpelah bought from Ephron the Hittite. AC 7:15-16 He was buried in the sepulchre at Shechem, bought from the sons of Hamor. EX 3:1 Jethro was the father-in-law of Moses. NU 10:29, JG 4:11 (KJV) Hobab was the father-in-law of Moses. EX 3:20-22, DT 20:13-17 God instructs the Israelites to despoil the Egyptians, to plunder their enemies. EX 20:15, 17, LE 19:13 God prohibits stealing, defrauding, or robbing a neighbor. EX 4:11 God decides who will be dumb, deaf, blind, etc. 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love. EX 9:3-6 God destroys all the cattle (including horses) belonging to the Egyptians. EX 9:9-11 The people and the cattle are afflicted with boils. EX 12:12, 29 All the first-born of the cattle of the Egyptians are destroyed. EX 14:9 After having all their cattle destroyed, then afflicted with boils, and then their first-born cattle destroyed, the Egyptians pursue Moses on horseback. EX 12:13 The Israelites have to mark their houses with blood in order for God to see which houses they occupy and "pass over" them. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees everything. Nothing is hidden from God. EX 12:37, NU 1:45-46 The number of men of military age who take part in the Exodus is given as more than 600,000. Allowing for women, children, and older men would probably mean that a total of about 2,000,000 Israelites left Egypt. 1KI 20:15 All the Israelites, including children, number only 7000 at a later time. EX 15:3, 17:16, NU 25:4, 32:14, IS 42:13 God is a man of war--he is fierce and angry. RO 15:33, 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love and peace. EX 20:1-17 God gave the law directly to Moses (without using an intermediary). GA 3:19 The law was ordained through angels by a mediator (an intermediary). EX 20:4 God prohibits the making of any graven images whatsoever. EX 25:18 God enjoins the making of two graven images. EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent's sins. DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins. EX 20:8-11, 31:15-17, 35:1-3 No work is to be done on the Sabbath, not even lighting a fire. The commandment is permanent, and death is required for infractions. MK 2:27-28 Jesus says that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath (after his disciples were criticized for breaking the Sabbath). RO 14:5, CN 2:14-16 Paul says the Sabbath commandment was temporary, and to decide for yourself regarding its observance. EX 20:12, DT 5:16, MT 15:4, 19:19, MK 7:10, 10:19, LK 18:20 Honor your father and your mother is one of the ten commandments. It is reinforced by Jesus. MT 10:35-37, LK 12:51-53, 14:26 Jesus says that he has come to divide families; that a man's foes will be those of his own household; that you must hate your father, mother, wife, children, brothers, sisters, and even your own life to be a disciple. MT 23:9 Jesus says to call no man on earth your father. EX 20:13, DT 5:17, MK 10:19, LK 18:20, RO 13:9, JA 2:11 God prohibits killing. GE 34:1-35:5 God condones trickery and killing. EX 32:27, DT 7:2, 13:15, 20:1-18 God orders killing. 2KI 19:35 An angel of the Lord slaughters 185,000 men. (Note: See Atrocities section for many more examples.) EX 20:14 God prohibits adultery. HO 1:2 God instructs Hosea to "take a wife of harlotry." EX 21:23-25, LE 24:20, DT 19:21 A life for a life, an eye for an eye, etc. MT 5:38-44, LK 6:27-29 Turn the other cheek. Love your enemies. EX 23:7 God prohibits the killing of the innocent. NU 31:17-18, DT 7:2, JS 6:21-27, 7:19-26, 8:22-25, 10:20, 40, 11:8-15, 20, JG 11:30-39, 21:10-12, 1SA 15:3 God orders or approves the complete extermination of groups of people which include innocent women and/or children. (Note: See Atrocities section for many other examples of the killing of innocents.) EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie. NU 14:30 God breaks his promise. EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie. 1KI 22:21-23 God condones a spirit of deception. EX 34:6, DT 7:9-10, TS 1:2 God is faithful and truthful. He does not lie. 2TH 2:11-12 God deludes people, making them believe what is false, so as to be able to condemn them. (Note: some versions use the word persuade here. The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.) EX 34:6-7, JS 24:19, 1CH 16:34 God is faithful, holy and good. IS 45:6-7, LA 3:8, AM 3:6 God is responsible for evil. EX 34:6-7, HE 9:27 God remembers sin, even when it has been forgiven. JE 31:34 God does not remember sin when it has been forgiven. LE 3:17 God himself prohibits forever the eating of blood and fat. MT 15:11, CN 2:20-22 Jesus and Paul say that such rules don't matter-- they are only human injunctions. LE 19:18, MT 22:39 Love your neighbor [as much as] yourself. 1CO 10:24 Put your neighbor ahead of yourself. LE 21:10 The chief priest is not to rend his clothes. MT 26:65, MK 14:63 He does so during the trial of Jesus. LE 25:37, PS 15:1, 5 It is wrong to lend money at interest. MT 25:27, LK 19:23-27 It is wrong to lend money without interest. NU 11:33 God inflicts sickness. JB 2:7 Satan inflicts sickness. NU 15:24-28 Sacrifices can, in at least some case, take away sin. HE 10:11 They never take away sin. NU 25:9 24,000 died in the plague. 1CO 10:8 23,000 died in the plague. NU 30:2 God enjoins the making of vows (oaths). MT 5:33-37 Jesus forbids doing so, saying that they arise from evil (or the Devil). NU 33:38 Aaron died on Mt. Hor. DT 10:6 Aaron died in Mosera. NU 33:41-42 After Aaron's death, the Israelites journeyed from Mt. Hor, to Zalmonah, to Punon, etc. DT 10:6-7 It was from Mosera, to Gudgodah, to Jotbath. DT 6:15, 9:7-8, 29:20, 32:21 God is sometimes angry. MT 5:22 Anger is a sin. DT 7:9-10 God destroys his enemies. MT 5:39-44 Do not resist your enemies. Love them. DT 18:20-22 A false prophet is one whose words do not come true. Death is required. EZ 14:9 A prophet who is deceived, is deceived by God himself. Death is still required. DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord. IS 56:4-5 Some castrates will receive special rewards. DT 23:1 A castrate may not enter the assembly of the Lord. MT 19:12 Men are encouraged to consider making themselves castrates for the sake of the Kingdom of God. DT 24:1-5 A man can divorce his wife simply because she displeases him and both he and his wife can remarry. MK 10:2-12 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery. DT 24:16, 2KI 14:6, 2CH 25:4, EZ 18:20 Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins. RO 5:12, 19, 1CO 15:22 Death is passed to all men by the sin of Adam. DT 30:11-20 It is possible to keep the law. RO 3:20-23 It is not possible to keep the law. JS 11:20 God shows no mercy to some. LK 6:36, JA 5:11 God is merciful. JG 4:21 Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him. JG 5:25-27 Sisera was standing. JS 10:38-40 Joshua himself captured Debir. JG 1:11-15 It was Othniel, who thereby obtained the hand of Caleb's daughter, Achsah. 1SA 8:2-22 Samuel informs God as to what he has heard from others. PR 15:3, JE 16:17, 23:24-25, HE 4:13 God is everywhere. He sees and hears everything. 1SA 9:15-17 The Lord tells Samuel that Saul has been chosen to lead the Israelites and will save them from the Philistines. 1SA 15:35 The Lord is sorry that he has chosen Saul. 1SA 31:4-7 Saul commits suicide and the Israelites are overrun by the Philistines. 1SA 15:7-8, 20 The Amalekites are utterly destroyed. 1SA 27:8-9 They are utterly destroyed (again?). 1SA 30:1, 17-18 They raid Ziklag and David smites them (again?). 1SA 16:10-11, 17:12 Jesse had seven sons plus David, or eight total. 1CH 2:13-15 He had seven total. 1SA 16:19-23 Saul knew David well before the latter's encounter with Goliath. 1SA 17:55-58 Saul did not know David at the time of his encounter with Goliath and had to ask about David's identity. 1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath with a slingshot. 1SA 17:51 David killed Goliath (again?) with a sword. 1SA 17:50 David killed Goliath. 2SA 21:19 Elhanan killed Goliath. (Note: Some translations insert the words "the brother of" before Elhanan. These are an addition to the earliest manuscripts in an apparent attempt to rectify this inconsistency.) 1SA 21:1-6 Ahimalech was high priest when David ate the bread. MK 2:26 Abiathar was high priest at the time. 1SA 28:6 Saul inquired of the Lord, but received no answer. 1CH 10:13-14 Saul died for not inquiring of the Lord. 1SA 31:4-6 Saul killed himself by falling on his sword. 2SA 1:2-10 Saul, at his own request, was slain by an Amalekite. 2SA 21:12 Saul was killed by the Philistines on Gilboa. 1CH 10:13-14 Saul was slain by God. 2SA 6:23 Michal was childless. 2SA 21:8 (KJV) She had five sons. 2SA 24:1 The Lord inspired David to take the census. 1CH 21:1 Satan inspired the census. 2SA 24:9 The census count was: Israel 800,000 and Judah 500,000. 1CH 21:5 The census count was: Israel 1,100,000 and Judah 470,000. 2SA 24:10-17 David sinned in taking the census. 1KI 15:5 David's only sin (ever) was in regard to another matter. 2SA 24:24 David paid 50 shekels of silver for the purchase of a property. 1CH 21:22-25 He paid 600 shekels of gold. 1KI 3:12 God made Solomon the wisest man that ever lived, yet .... 1KI 11:1-13 Solomon loved many foreign women (against God's explicit prohibition) who turned him to other gods (for which he deserved death). 1KI 3:12, 4:29, 10:23-24, 2CH 9:22-23 God made Solomon the wisest king and the wisest man that ever lived. There never has been nor will be another like him. MT 12:42, LK 11:31 Jesus says: "... now one greater than Solomon is here." 1KI 4:26 Solomon had 40,000 horses (or stalls for horses). 2CH 9:25 He had 4,000 horses (or stalls for horses). 1KI 5:16 Solomon had 3,300 supervisors. 2CH 2:2 He had 3,600 supervisors. 1KI 7:15-22 The two pillars were 18 cubits high. 2CH 3:15-17 They were 35 cubits high. 1KI 7:26 Solomon's "molten sea" held 2000 "baths" (1 bath = about 8 gallons). 2CH 4:5 It held 3000 "baths." 1KI 8:12, 2CH 6:1, PS 18:11 God dwells in thick darkness. 1TI 6:16 God dwells in unapproachable light. 1KI 8:13, AC 7:47 Solomon, whom God made the wisest man ever, built his temple as an abode for God. AC 7:48-49 God does not dwell in temples built by men. 1KI 9:28 420 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir. 2CH 8:18 450 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir. 1KI 15:14 Asa did not remove the high places. 2CH 14:2-3 He did remove them. 1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa's reign. 2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign. 1KI 16:23 Omri became king in the thirty-first year of Asa's reign and he reigned for a total of twelve years. 1KI 16:28-29 Omri died, and his son Ahab became king in the thirty- eighth year of Asa's reign. (Note: Thirty-one through thirty-eight equals a reign of seven or eight years.) 1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, 2TH 2:11 God himself causes a lying spirit. PR 12:22 God abhors lying lips and delights in honesty. 1KI 22:42-43 Jehoshaphat did not remove the high places. 2CH 17:5-6 He did remove them. 2KI 2:11 Elijah went up to heaven. JN 3:13 Only the Son of Man (Jesus) has ever ascended to heaven. 2CO 12:2-4 An unnamed man, known to Paul, went up to heaven and came back. HE 11:5 Enoch was translated to heaven. 2KI 4:32-37 A dead child is raised (well before the time of Jesus). MT 9:18-25, JN 11:38-44 Two dead persons are raised (by Jesus himself). AC 26:23 Jesus was the first to rise from the dead. 2KI 8:25-26 Ahaziah was 22 years old when he began his reign. 2CH 22:2 He was 42 when he began his reign. [Note: Some translations use "twenty-two" here in an attempt to rectify this discrepancy. The Hebrew is clear, however, that 2CH 22:2 is 42. The Hebrew words involved are Strong's H705 and H8147, "forty" and "two," respectively.] 2KI 9:27 Jehu shot Ahaziah near Ibleam. Ahaziah fled to Meggido and died there. 2CH 22:9 Ahaziah was found hiding in Samaria, brought to Jehu, and put to death. 2KI 16:5 The King of Syria and the son of the King of Israel did not conquer Ahaz. 2CH 28:5-6 They did conquer Ahaz. 2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) was eighteen years old when he began to reign. 2CH 36:9 He was eight. (Note: This discrepancy has been "corrected" in some versions.) 2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) reigned three months. 2CH 36:9 He reigned three months and ten days. 2KI 24:17 Jehoiachin (Jehoaikim) was succeeded by his uncle. 2CH 36:10 He was succeeded by his brother. 1CH 3:11-13 The lineage is: Joram, Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham. MT 1:8-9 It is: Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, etc. 1CH 3:19 Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel. ER 3:2 Shealtiel was the father of Zerubbabel. 2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 There is no injustice or partiality with the Lord. RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on (and hardens the hearts of) whom he pleases. ER 2:3-64 (Gives the whole congregation as 42,360 while the actual sum of the numbers is about 30,000.) JB 2:3-6, 21:7-13, 2TI 3:12 The godly are persecuted and chastised but the wicked grow old, wealthy, and powerful, unchastised by God. PS 55:23, 92:12-14, PR 10:2-3, 27-31, 12:2, 21 The lives of the wicked are cut short. The righteous flourish and obtain favor from the Lord. PS 10:1 God cannot be found in time of need. He is "far off." PS 145:18 God is near to all who call upon him in truth. PS 22:1-2 God sometimes forsakes his children. He does not answer. PS 46:1 God is a refuge, a strength, a very present help. PS 30:5, JE 3:12, MI 7:18 God's anger does not last forever. JE 17:4, MT 25:46 It does last forever. (He has provided for eternal punishment.) PS 58:10-11 The righteous shall rejoice when he sees vengeance. PR 24:16-18 Do not rejoice when your enemy falls or stumbles. PS 78:69, EC 1:4, 3:14 The earth was established forever. PS 102:25-26, MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33, HE 1:10-11, 2PE 3:10 The earth will someday perish. PR 3:13, 4:7, 19:8, JA 1:5 Happy is the man who finds wisdom. Get wisdom. LK 2:40, 52 Jesus was filled with wisdom and found favor with God. 1CO 1:19-25, 3:18-20 Wisdom is foolishness. PR 12:2, RO 8:28 A good man obtains favor from the Lord. 2TI 3:12, HE 12:6 The godly will be persecuted. PR 14:8 The wisdom of a prudent man is to discern his way. MT 6:25-34 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you. PR 14:15-18 The simple believe everything and acquire folly; the prudent look where they are going and are crowned with knowledge. MT 18:3, LK 18:17 You must believe as little children do. 1CO 1:20, 27 God has made the wisdom of the world foolish so as to shame the wise. PR 16:4 God made the wicked for the "day of evil." MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 God and Jesus hide some things from some people. JN 6:65 No one can come to Jesus unless it is granted by God. RO 8:28-30 Some are predestined to be called to God, believe in Jesus, and be justified. RO 9:15-18 God has mercy on, and hardens the hearts of, whom he pleases. 2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked so as to be able to condemn them. 1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 [Yet] God wants all to be saved. PR 8:13, 16:6 It is the fear of God that keeps men from evil. 1JN 4:18 There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out fear. 1JN 5:2, 2JN 1:6 Those who love God keep his commandments. PR 26:4 Do not answer a fool. To do so makes you foolish too. PR 26:5 Answer a fool. If you don't, he will think himself wise. PR 30:5 Every word of God proves true. JE 8:8 The scribes falsify the word of God. JE 20:7, EZ 14:9, 2TH 2:11-12 God himself deceives people. (Note: Some versions translate deceive as "persuade." The context makes clear, however, that deception is involved.) IS 3:13 God stands to judge. JL 3:12 He sits to judge. IS 44:24 God created heaven and earth alone. JN 1:1-3 Jesus took part in creation. IS 53:9 Usually taken to be a prophecy re: Jesus, mentions burial with others. MT 27:58-60, MK 15:45-46, LK 23:52-53, JN 19:38-42 Jesus was buried by himself. JE 12:13 Some sow wheat but reap thorns. MI 6:15 Some sow but won't reap anything. MT 25:26, LK 19:22 Some reap without sowing. 2CO 9:6, GA 6:7 A man reaps what he sows. JE 32:18 God shows love to thousands, but brings punishment for the sins of their fathers to many children. 2CO 13:11, 14, 1JN 4:8, 16 God is a god of love. JE 34:4-5 Zedekiah was to die in peace. JE 52:10-11 Instead, Zedekaih's sons are slain before his eyes, his eyes are then put out, he is bound in fetters, taken to Babylon and left in prison to die. EZ 20:25-26 The law was not good. The sacrifice of children was for the purpose of horrifying the people so that they would know that God is Lord. RO 7:12, 1TI 1:8 The law is good. EZ 26:15-21 God says that Tyre will be destroyed and will never be found again. (Nebudchanezzar failed to capture or destroy Tyre. It is still inhabited.) DN 5:1 (Gives the title of "king" to Belshazzar although Belshazzar was actually the "viceroy.") DN 5:2 (Says that Nebuchadnezzar was the father of Belshazzar, but actually, Nebonidus was the father of Belshazzar.) (Note: Some versions attempt to correct this error by making the verse say that Nebuchadnezzar was the grandfather of Belshazzar.) ZE 11:12-13 Mentions "thirty pieces" and could possibly be thought to be connected with the Potter's Field prophesy referred to in Matthew. MT 27:9 Jeremiah is given as the source of the prophesy regarding the purchase of the Potter's Field. (Note: There is no such prophesy in Jeremiah.) MT 1:6-7 The lineage of Jesus is traced through David's son, Solomon. LK 3:23-31 It is traced through David's son, Nathan. (Note: Some apologists assert that Luke traces the lineage through Mary. That this is untrue is obvious from the context since Luke and Matthew both clearly state that Joseph was Jesus' father.) MT 1:16 Jacob was Joseph's father. LK 3:23 Heli was Joseph's father. MT 1:17 There were twenty-eight generations from David to Jesus. LK 3:23-38 There were forty-three. MT 1:18-21 The Annunciation occurred after Mary had conceived Jesus. LK 1:26-31 It occurred before conception. MT 1:20 The angel spoke to Joseph. LK 1:28 The angel spoke to Mary. MT 1:20-23, LK 1:26-33 An angel announces to Joseph and/or Mary that the child (Jesus) will be "great," the "son of the Most High," etc., and .... MT 3:13-17, MK 1:9-11 The baptism of Jesus is accompanied by the most extraordinary happenings, yet .... MK 3:21 Jesus' own relatives (or friends) attempt to constrain him, thinking that he might be out of his mind, and .... MK 6:4-6 Jesus says that a prophet is without honor in his own house (which certainly should not have been the case considering the Annunciation and the Baptism). MT 1:23 He will be called Emmanuel (or Immanuel). MT 1:25 Instead, he was called Jesus. MT 2:13-16 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt, (where they stay until after Herod's death) in order to avoid the murder of their firstborn by Herod. Herod slaughters all male infants two years old and under. (Note: John the Baptist, Jesus' cousin, though under two is somehow spared without fleeing to Egypt.) LK 2:22-40 Following the birth of Jesus, Joseph and Mary remain in the area of Jerusalem for the Presentation (about forty days) and then return to Nazareth without ever going to Egypt. There is no slaughter of the infants. MT 2:23 "And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets: He will be called a Nazarene.'" (This prophecy is not found in the OT and while Jesus is often referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth", he is seldom referred to as "Jesus the Nazarene.") MT 3:11-14, JN 1:31-34 John realized the true identity of Jesus (as the Messiah) either prior to the actual Baptism, or from the Baptism onward. The very purpose of John's baptism was to reveal Jesus to Israel. MT 11:2-3 After the Baptism, John sends his disciples to ask if Jesus is the Messiah. MT 3:12, 13:42 Hell is a furnace of fire (and must therefore be light). MT 8:12, 22:13, 25:30 Hell is an "outer darkness" (and therefore dark). MT 3:16, MK 1:10 It was Jesus who saw the Spirit descending. JN 1:32 It was John who saw the Spirit descending. MT 3:17 The heavenly voice addressed the crowd: "This is my beloved Son." MK 1:11, LK 3:22 The voice addressed Jesus: "You are my beloved Son...." MT 4:1-11, MK 1:12-13 Immediately following his Baptism, Jesus spent forty days in the wilderness resisting temptation by the Devil. JN 2:1-11 Three days after the Baptism, Jesus was at the wedding in Cana. MT 4:5-8 The Devil took Jesus to the pinnacle of the temple, then to the mountain top. LK 4:5-9 First to the mountain top, then to the pinnacle of the temple. MT 4:18-20, MK 1:16-18 (One story about choosing Peter as a disciple.) LK 5:2-11 (A different story.) JN 1:35-42 (Still another story.) MT 5:1 - 7:29 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the mount. LK 6:17-49 Jesus delivers his most noteworthy sermon while on the plain. (Note: No such sermons are mentioned in either MK or JN and Paul seems totally unfamiliar with either the sermon on the mount or the sermon on the plain.) MT 5:16 Good works should be seen. MT 6:1-4 They should be kept secret. MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus underscores the permanence of the law. LE 10:8 - 11:47, DT 14:3-21 The law distinguishes between clean and unclean foods. MK 7:14-15, MK 7:18-19 Jesus says that there is no such distinction. 1TI 4:1-4 All foods are clean according to Paul. MT 5:17-19, LK 16:17 Jesus did not come to abolish the law. EP 2:13-15, HE 7:18-19 Jesus did abolish the law. MT 5:22 Anyone who calls another a fool is liable to Hell. MT 7:26 Jesus says that anyone who hears his words and does not do them is a fool. (Note: The translation now prevalent, "like a foolish man," in MT 7:26 is a dishonest attempt to alleviate the obvious inconsistency here in that the oldest Greek manuscripts use the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and "like a foolish man" in MT 7:26.) MT 23:17-19 Jesus twice calls the Pharisees blind fools. MT 25:2, 3, 8 Jesus likens the maidens who took no oil to fools. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.) 1CO 1:23, 3:18, 4:10 Paul uses fool with regard to Christians becoming fools for Christ. (Note: Again, this is the same Greek word translated "fool" in MT 5:22 and MT 23:17-19.) MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin. EP 4:26 Anger is not necessarily a sin. MT 5:22 Anger by itself is a sin. MT 11:22-24, LK 10:13-15 Jesus curses the inhabitants of several cities who are not sufficiently impressed with his mighty works. MT 21:19, MK 11:12-14 Jesus curses a fig tree when it fails to bear fruit out of season. MK 3:5 Jesus looks around "angrily." MT 5:32 Divorce, except on the grounds of unchastity, is wrong. MK 10:11-12 Divorce on any grounds is wrong. MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Jesus says: "Do not resist evil. Love your enemies." MT 6:15, 12:34, 16:3, 22:18, 23:13-15, 17, 19, 27, 29, 33, MK 7:6, LK 11:40, 44, 12:56 Jesus repeatedly hurls epithets at his opponents. MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies. LK 19:27 God is likened to one who destroys his enemies. MT 5:39, MT 5:44 Do not resist evil. Love your enemies. 2JN 1:9-11 Shun anyone who does not hold the proper doctrine. MT 5:43-44, MT 22:39 Love your enemies. Love your neighbor as yourself. MT 10:5 Go nowhere among the Gentiles nor enter a Samaritan town. JN 8:58-59 Jesus hid himself, apparently to avoid being stoned. MT 5:45, 7:21 God resides in heaven. MK 13:32 The angels reside in heaven AC 7:55, HE 12:2 Jesus is at the right hand of God, in heaven. 1PE 1:3-4 Believers will inherit eternal life in heaven. MT 24:35, MK 13:31, LK 21:33 Heaven will pass away. MT 6:13 God might lead us into temptation and it is better avoided. JA 1:2-3 Temptation is joy. MT 6:13 Jesus' prayer implies that God might lead us into temptation. JA 1:13 God tempts no one. MT 6:25-34, LK 12:22-31 Take no thought for tomorrow. God will take care of you. 1TI 5:8 A man who does not provide for his family is worse than an infidel. (Note: Providing for a family certainly involves taking "thought for tomorrow.") MT 7:1-2 Do not judge. MT 7:15-20 Instructions for judging a false prophet. MT 7:7-8, LK 11:9-10 Ask and it will be given. Seek and you will find. LK 13:24 Many will try to enter the Kingdom but will be unable. MT 7:21 Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. AC 2:21, RO 10:13 Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. AC 2:39 Those God calls to himself will be saved. MT 7:21, LK 10:36-37, RO 2:6, 13, JA 2:24 We are justified by works, not by faith. JN 3:16, RO 3:20-26, EP 2:8-9, GA 2:16 We are justified by faith, not by works. MT 8:5-12 The centurion himself approaches Jesus to ask to heal his servant. LK 7:2-10 The centurion sends elders to do the asking. MT 8:16, LK 4:40 Jesus healed all that were sick. MK 1:32-34 Jesus healed many (but not all). MT 8:28-33 Two demoniacs are healed in the Gadarene swine incident. MK 5:2-16, LK 8:26-36 One demoniac is healed in this incident. MT 9:18 The ruler's daughter was already dead when Jesus raised her. LK 8:42 She was dying, but not dead. MT 10:1-8 Jesus gives his disciples the power to exorcise and heal... MT 17:14-16 (Yet) the disciples are unable to do so. MT 10:2, MK 3:16-19 The twelve apostles (disciples) were: Simon (Peter), Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, John his brother, Philip, Bartholemew, Thomas, Matthew the tax collector, James the son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus (Labbaeus), Simon, and Judas Iscariot. LK 6:13-16 The above except that Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, and Judas the son of James is added (and Judas Iscariot remains). AC 1:13, 26 Same as MT and MK except that, like LK Thaddaeus (Labbaeus) is excluded, Judas the son of James is included, and Mathias is chosen by the others to replace Judas Iscariot. MT 10:2, 5-6 Peter was to be an apostle to the Jews and not go near the Gentiles. AC 15:7 He was an apostle to the Gentiles. MT 10:10 Do not take sandals (shoes) or staves. MK 6:8-9 Take sandals (shoes) and staves. MT 10:34, LK 12:49-53 Jesus has come to bring a sword, fire, and division--not peace. JN 16:33 Jesus says: "In me you have peace." MT 10:22, 24:13, MK 13:13 He that endures to the end will be saved. MK 16:16 He that believes and is baptized will be saved. JN 3:5 Only he that is born of water and Spirit will be saved. AC 16:31 He that believes on the Lord Jesus will be saved. AC 2:21 He that calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. RO 10:9 He who confesses with his mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead will be saved. 1JN 4:7 He who loves is born of God (and presumably will be saved.) MT 10:28, LK 12:4 Jesus says not to fear men. (Fear God only.) MT 12:15-16, JN 7:1-10, 8:59, 10:39, 11:53-54 Jesus hid, escaped, went secretly, etc. MT 11:7-15, 17:12-13 Jesus says that John the Baptist was a prophet, and more. JN 1:21 John himself says that he is not a prophet, nor is he Elijah. MT 11:25, MK 4:11-12 Jesus thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes." He says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain hidden to at least some persons, and specifically so that they will not turn and be forgiven. MK 4:22 Jesus says that all things should be made known. MT 11:29 Jesus says that he is gentle (meek) and humble (lowly). JN 2:15 Jesus makes a whip of cords, drives the money changers from the Temple, overturns their tables, and pours out their coins. (Note: The presence of the money changers in the outer court of the Temple had been authorized by the Temple authorities and was, in fact, a necessity since the Jews would not accept Roman coin for the purchase of sacrifices.) MT 12:5 Jesus says that the law (OT) states that the priests profane the Sabbath but are blameless. (No such statement is found in the OT. MT 12:30 Jesus says that those who are not with him are against him. MK 9:40 Jesus says that those who are not against him are for him. (Note: This puts those who are indifferent or undecided in the "for him" category in the first instance and in the "against him" category in the second instance.) MT 12:39, MK 8:12, LK 11:29 Jesus says that he will give no "sign." JN 3:2, 20:30, AC 2:22 Jesus proceeds to give many such "signs." MT 13:34, MK 4:34 Jesus addresses the crowds only in parables, so that they would not fully understand. He explains the meaning only to his disciples. JN 1:1 - 21:25 (Throughout the book of John, unlike the other Gospels, Jesus addresses the crowds in a very straightforward manner. He does not employ parables.) MT 13:58, MK 6:5 In spite of his faith, Jesus is not able to perform mighty miracles. MT 17:20, 19:26, MK 9:23, 10:27, LK 17:6, 18:27 Jesus says that anything is possible to him who believes if he has the faith of a grain of mustard seed. All things are possible with God. A mountain can be commanded to move and it will move. MT 5:37, 15:19, MK 7:22, JN 8:14, 44, 14:6, 18:37 Jesus says that you should answer a plain "yes" or "no," that his purpose is to bear witness to the truth, and that his testimony is true. He equates lying with evil. JN 7:2-10 Jesus tells his brothers that he is not going to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Tabernacles, then later goes secretly by himself. (Note: The words "not yet" were added to some versions at JN 7:8 in order to alleviate this problem. The context at JN 7:10 makes the deception clear, however.) MT 16:6, 11 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees. MK 8:15 Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod. MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom. MT 16:23 Jesus calls Peter [a] "Satan" and "a hindrance," and accuses him of being on the side of men rather than that of God. MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom. AC 15:1-21 James presides over the first Council of Jerusalem and formulates the decree regarding the accepting of Gentiles which is sent to the other churches. (Note: Tradition has it that James was appointed as the first Bishop or Pope, not Peter.) MT 17:1-2 The Transfiguration occurs six days after Jesus foretells his suffering. LK 9:28-29 It takes place about eight days afterwards. MT 20:20-21 The mother of James and John asks Jesus a favor for her sons. MK 10:35-37 They ask for themselves. MT 20:23, MK 10:40 Jesus responds that it is not his to give. MT 28:18, JN 3:35 All authority has been given to Jesus. MT 20:29-34 Jesus heals two blind men on the way to Jericho. MK 10:46-52 He heals one blind man. MT 21:1-17 The sequence was: triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, Bethany. MK 11:1-19 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple. LK 19:28-48 Triumphal entry, cleansing of the temple, daily teaching in the temple. JN 12:1-18 Cleansing of the temple (early in his career), Supper with Lazarus, triumphal entry, no cleansing of the temple following the triumphal entry. MT 21:2-6, MK 11:2-7, LK 19:30-35 The disciples follow Jesus instructions and bring him the animal (or animals, in the case of MT). JN 12:14 Jesus finds the animal himself. MT 21:7 Jesus rides two animals during his triumphal entry. MK 11:7, LK 19:35, JN 12:14 Only one animal is involved. MT 21:12-13 The cleansing of the temple occurs at the end of Jesus' career. JN 2:13-16 It occurs near the beginning of his career. MT 21:19-20 The fig tree withers immediately after being cursed by Jesus. The disciples notice and are amazed. MK 11:13-14, 20-21 The disciples first notice that the tree has withered the day following. MT 23:35 Jesus says that Zacharias (Zechariah) was the son of Barachias (Barachiah). 2CH 24:20 Zacharias was actually the son of Jehoida, the priest. (Note: The name Barachias, or Barachiah, does not appear in the O.T.) MT 24:29-33, MK 13:24-29 The coming of the kingdom will be accompanied by signs and miracles. LK 17:20-21 It will not be accompanied by signs and miracles. It is already within. MT 25:34 Heaven was prepared before the Ascension of Jesus. JN 14:2-3 It was prepared after the Ascension of Jesus. MT 26:6-13, MK 14:3 The anointing of Jesus takes place in Bethany at the house of Simon the leper. LK 7:36-38 It takes place at the house of a Pharisee in Galilee. MT 26:7, MK 14:3 The oil is poured on Jesus' head. LK 7:38, JN 12:3 On his feet. MT 26:7, MK 14:3, LK 7:37 An unnamed woman does the anointing. JN 12:3 It is Mary. MT 28:6-8 The women ran from the tomb "with great joy." JN 20:1-2 Mary told Peter and the other disciple that the body had been stolen. (Would she feel "great joy" if she thought the body had been stolen?) MT 26:8 The disciples reproach her. MK 14:4 "Some" reproach her. JN 12:4-5 Judas Iscariot reproaches her. MT 26:14-25, MK 14:10-11, LK 22:3-23 Judas made his bargain with the chief priests before the meal. JN 13:21-30 After the meal. MT 26:20-29, MK 14:17-28, JN 13:21-30 Jesus forecasts his betrayal prior to the communion portion of the supper. LK 22:14-23 After the communion portion. MT 26:26-29, MK 14:22-25 The order of the communion was: bread, then wine. LK 22:17-20 It was: wine, then bread. MT 26:34, LK 22:34, JN 13:38 Peter was to deny Jesus before the cock crowed. MK 14:30 Before the cock crowed twice. MK 14:66-72 The cock crows after both the first and second denials. (Note: These discrepancies have been "translated out" in some Bible versions.) MT 26:40-45, MK 14:37-41 The disciples fall asleep three times. LK 22:45 One time. MT 26:49-50, MK 14:44-46 Jesus is betrayed by Judas with a kiss, then seized. LK 22:47-48 Jesus anticipates Judas' kiss. No actual kiss is mentioned. JN 18:2-9 Jesus voluntarily steps forward to identify himself making it completely unnecessary for Judas to point him out. No kiss is mentioned. MT 26:51, MK 14:47, JN 18:10 The ear of a slave is cut off and left that way. LK 22:50-51 The severed ear is miraculously healed by Jesus. MT 26:52 Dispose of swords. All who take the sword will perish by it. LK 22:36-38 Buy swords. MT 26:57, MK 14:53, LK 22:54 After his arrest Jesus is first taken to Caiphas, the high priest. JN 18:13-24 First to Annas, the son-in-law of Caiphas, then to Caiphas. MT 26:18-20, 57-68, 27:1-2, MK 14:16-18, 53-72, 15:1 Jesus' initial hearing was at night on Passover. In the morning he was taken to Pilate. LK 22:13-15, 54-66 The initial hearing took place in the morning on Passover. JN 18:28, 19:14 It took place the day before Passover, on the Day of Preparation. MT 26:59-66, MK 14:55-64 Jesus was tried by the entire Sanhedrin (the chief priests and the whole council). LK 22:66-71 There was no trial but merely an inquiry held by the Sanhedrin. JN 18:13-24 There was no appearance before the Sanhedrin, only the private hearings before Annas and then Caiphas. MT 26:63, LK 22:70 The high priest asks Jesus if he is the Son of God. MK 14:61 He asks Jesus if he is the Son of the Blessed. MT 26:64, LK 22:70 Jesus answers: "You have said so," or words to this effect. MK 14:62 He answers directly: "I am." MT 26:69-70 Peter makes his first denial to a maid and "them all." MK 14:66-68, LK 22:56-57, JN 18:17 It was to one maid only. MT 26:71-72 Peter's second denial is to still another maid. MK 14:69-70 (Apparently) to the same maid. LK 22:58 To a man, not a maid. JN 18:25 To more than one, "they." MT 26:73-74, MK 14:70-71 Peter's third denial is to bystanders (two or more). LK 22:59-60 To "another" (one). JN 18:26-27 To one of the servants. MT 26:74 The cock crowed once. MK 14:72 The cock crowed twice. MT 27:3-7 The chief priests bought the field. AC 1:16-19 Judas bought the field. MT 27:5 Judas threw down the pieces of silver, then departed. AC 1:18 He used the coins to buy the field. MT 27:5 Judas hanged himself. AC 1:18 He fell headlong, burst open, and his bowels gushed out. MT 27:11, MK 15:2, LK 23:3 When asked if he is King of the Jews, Jesus answers: "You have said so," (or "Thou sayest"). JN 18:33-34 He answers: "Do you say this of your own accord?" MT 27:11-14 Jesus answers not a single charge at his hearing before Pilate. JN 18:33-37 Jesus answers all charges at his hearing before Pilate. MT 27:20 The chief priests and elders are responsible for persuading the people to ask for the release of Barabbas. MK 15:11 Only the chief priests are responsible. LK 23:18-23 The people ask, apparently having decided for themselves. MT 27:28 Jesus is given a scarlet robe (a sign of infamy). MK 15:17, JN 19:2 A purple robe (a sign of royalty). MT 27:32, MK 15:21, LK 23:26 Simon of Cyrene carries Jesus' cross. JN 19:17 Jesus carries his own cross with no help from anyone. MT 27:37 The inscription on the cross read: "This is Jesus the King of the Jews." MK 15:26 "The King of the Jews." LK 23:38 "This is the King of the Jews." JN 19:19 "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews." MT 27:44 Both of those who are crucified with Jesus taunt him. LK 23:39-42 Only one taunts Jesus, and he is rebuked by the other for doing so. MT 27:46 Jesus asks God, the Father, why he has been forsaken. JN 10:30 Jesus says that he and the Father are one. MT 27:46-50, MK 15:34-37 Jesus' last recorded words are: "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" LK 23:46 "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit." JN 19:30 "It is finished." (Note: Even though both MT and MK represent direct quotes and are translated similarly, the actual Greek words used for God are different. MT uses "Eli" and MK uses "Eloi.") MT 27:48, LK 23:36, JN 19:29 Jesus was offered vinegar to drink. MK 15:23 It was wine and myrrh, and he did not drink it. JN 19:29-30 Whatever it was, he did drink it. MT 27:54 The centurion says: "Truly this was the son of God." MK 15:39 He says: "Truly this man was the son of God!" LK 23:47 He says: "Truly this man was innocent" (or "righteous"). MT 27:55, MK 15:40, LK 23:49 The women looked on from afar. JN 19:25-26 They were near enough that Jesus could speak to his mother. MT 27:62-66 A guard was placed at the tomb (the day following the burial). MK 15:42- 16:8, LK 23:50-56, JN 19:38-42 (No guard is mentioned. This is important since rumor had it that Jesus' body was stolen and the Resurrection feigned.) MK 16:1-3, LK 24:1 (There could not have been a guard, as far as the women were concerned, since they were planning to enter the tomb with spices. Though the women were aware of the stone, they were obviously unaware of a guard.) MT 24:9 Even some of the disciples of Jesus will be killed. JN 8:51 If anyone keeps Jesus' words, he will never see death. HE 9:27 [All] men die once, then judgement follows. MT 28:1 The first visitors to the tomb were Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (two). MK 16:1 Both of the above plus Salome (three). LK 23:55 - 24:1, 24:10 Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and "other women" (at least five). JN 20:1 Mary Magdalene only (one). MT 28:1 It was toward dawn when they arrived. MK 16:2 It was after sunrise. LK 24:1 It was at early dawn. JN 20:1 It was still dark. MT 28:1-2 The stone was still in place when they arrived. It was rolled away later. MK 16:4, LK 24:2, JN 20:1 The stone had already been rolled (or taken) away. MT 28:2 An angel arrived during an earthquake, rolled back the stone, then sat on it (outside the tomb). MK 16:5 No earthquake, only one young man sitting inside the tomb. LK 24:2-4 No earthquake. Two men suddenly appear standing inside the tomb. JN 20:12 No earthquake. Two angels are sitting inside the tomb. MT 28:8 The visitors ran to tell the disciples. MK 16:8 They said nothing to anyone. LK 24:9 They told the eleven and all the rest. JN 20:10-11 The disciples returned home. Mary remained outside, weeping. MT 28:8-9 Jesus' first Resurrection appearance was fairly near the tomb. LK 24:13-15 It was in the vicinity of Emmaus (seven miles from Jerusalem). JN 20:13-14 It was right at the tomb. MT 28:9 On his first appearance to them, Jesus lets Mary Magdalene and the other Mary hold him by his feet. JN 20:17 On his first appearance to Mary, Jesus forbids her to touch him since he has not yet ascended to the Father. JN 20:27 A week later, although he has not yet ascended to the Father, Jesus tells Thomas to touch him. MT 28:7-10, MT 28:16 Although some doubted, the initial reaction of those that heard the story was one of belief since they followed the revealed instructions. MK 16:11, LK 24:11 The initial reaction was one of disbelief. All doubted. MT 28:1-18 The order of Resurrection appearances was: Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, then the eleven. MK 16:9-14 It was Mary Magdalene, then two others, then the eleven. LK 24:15-36 It was two, then Simon (Peter?), then the eleven. JN 20:14 - 21:1 It was Mary Magdalene, then the disciples without Thomas, then the disciples with Thomas, then the eleven disciples again. 1CO 15:5-8 It was Cephas (Peter?), then the "twelve" (which twelve, Judas was dead?), then 500+ brethren (although AC 1:15 says there were only about 120), then James, then all the Apostles, then Paul. MT 28:19 Jesus instructs his disciples to baptize. 1CO 1:17 Although he considers himself a disciple of Jesus, Paul says that he has not been sent to baptize. MK 1:2 Jesus quotes a statement that allegedly appears in Isaiah. No such statement appears in Isaiah. (Note: IS 40.3 is seen by some as equivalent to MK 1.2; MA 3.1 is a much better fit, however, given that Jesus is allegedly quoting word for word in MK 1:2.) MK 1:14 Jesus began his ministry after the arrest of John the Baptist. JN 3:22-24 Before the arrest of John the Baptist. MK 1:23-24 A demon cries out that Jesus is the Holy One of God. 1JN 4:1-2 Everyone who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God. (Note: This would mean that the demon is of God.) MK 3:29 Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin. AC 13:39, CN 2:13, 1JN 1:9 All sins are forgivable. MK 4:11-12, 11:25 Jesus says that he uses parables so that the meaning of some of his teachings will remain secret to at least some persons. He explains the meanings of the parables only to his disciples. He thanks God for hiding some things from the wise while revealing them to "babes." JN 18:20 Jesus says that he always taught openly, never secretly. MK 6:16 Herod was the source of the belief that John had been raised from the dead. LK 9:7 Others were the source. Herod was perplexed by the belief. MK 6:52 The people were so unimpressed with "the Feeding of the Multitude" that they did not even understand the event. JN 6:14-15 They were so impressed that they tried to force Jesus to be their king. MK 6:53 After the feeding of the 5000, Jesus and the disciples went to Gennesaret. JN 6:17-25 They went to Capernaum. MK 15:25 It was the third hour when Jesus was crucified. JN 19:14-15 It was after the sixth hour since Jesus was still before Pilate and had not yet been sentenced at that time. MK 16:1-2 The women came to the tomb to anoint the body. JN 19:39-40 The body had already been anointed and wrapped in linen cloth. MK 16:5, LK 24:3 The women actually entered the tomb. JN 20:1-2, 11 They did not. MK 16:14-19 The Ascension took place (presumably from a room) while the disciples were together seated at a table, probably in or near Jerusalem. LK 24:50-51 It took place outdoors, after supper, at Bethany (near Jerusalem). AC 1:9-12 It took place outdoors, after 40+ days, at Mt. Olivet. MT 28:16-20 No mention is made of an ascension, but if it took place at all, it must have been from a mountain in Galilee since MT ends there.) LK 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus. LK 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away. LK 1:67 So did Zechariah. LK 2:25 So did Simeon. LK 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time). JN 7:39, JN 16:7, AC 1:3-5 The Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed. LK 8:12 The Devil causes unbelief. MK 4:11-12 Jesus is responsible for unbelief in at least some cases. 2TH 2:11-12 God is ultimately responsible for unbelief in at least some cases. LK 14:26 No one can be a disciple of Jesus unless he hates his parents, wife, children, brothers and sisters. 1JN 3:15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer. 1JN 4:20 If anyone claims to love God but hates his brother, he is a liar. LK 18:9-14 Do not boast of your virtue. RO 11:20, 1PE 5:5 Do not be proud. RO 15:17, 2CO 1:12, HE 3:6, 2CO 2:14, 5:12, 11:17 Paul boasts of his faith and says that one should be proud of it. LK 22:3-23 Satan entered Judas before the supper. JN 13:27 It was during the supper. LK 23:43 Jesus promises one of those crucified with him that they will be together, that very day, in Paradise. JN 20:17, AC 1:3 Jesus was not raised until the third day and did not ascend until at least forty days later. LK 23:55-56 The women followed Joseph to the tomb, saw how the body had been laid, then went to prepare spices with which to anoint the body. JN 19:39-40 Joseph brought spices with him (75 or a 100 lbs.) and annointed the body (as the women should have noticed). JN 1:1, 10:30 Jesus and God are one. JN 14:28 God is greater than Jesus. JN 1:1 Jesus was God incarnate. AC 2:22 Jesus was a man approved by God. JN 3:17, 8:15, 12:47 Jesus does not judge. JN 5:22, 5:27-30, 9:39, AC 10:42, 2CO 5:10 Jesus does judge. JN 5:22 God does not judge. RO 2:2-5, 3:19, 2TH 1:5, 1PE 1:17 God does judge. JN 5:24 Believers do not come into judgement. MT 12:36, RO 5:18, 2CO 5:10, HE 9:27, 1PE 1:17, JU 1:14-15, RE 20:12-13 All persons (including believers) come into judgement. JN 5:31 Jesus says that if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is not true. JN 8:14 Jesus says that even if he bears witness to himself, his testimony is true. JN 5:38-47 Men have a choice as to whether or not to receive Jesus. JN 6:44 No one can come to Jesus unless he is drawn by the Father. JN 7:38 Jesus quotes a statement that he says appears in scripture (i.e., the OT). (No such statement is found in the OT.) JN 10:27-29 None of Jesus' followers will be lost. 1TI 4:1 Some of them will be lost. JN 12:31 The Devil is the ruler (or "prince") of this world. 1CO 10:26, RE 1:5 Jesus is the ruler of kings--the earth is his. JN 12:32 Jesus implies that all persons will be saved. 1TI 2:3-4, 2PE 3:9 God wants all to be saved. JN 12:40, AC 2:21, 2:39, RO 9:27, 10:13 Some will not be saved. RE 14:1-4 Heaven will be inhabited by 144,000 virgin men (only?). JN 13:36 Peter asks Jesus where he is going. JN 14:5 Thomas does the same. JN 16:5 Jesus says that none of them have asked him where he is going. JN 17:12 Jesus has lost none of his disciples other than Judas. JN 18:9 Jesus has lost none, period. JN 17:12 Mentions a "son of perdition" as appearing in scripture (meaning the OT). (Note: There is no "son of perdition" mentioned in the OT.) JN 18:37 Jesus came into the world to bear witness to the truth. RO 1:18-20 The truth has always been evident. JN 20:9 Jesus quotes a statement that he says appears in scripture (meaning the OT). (No such statement is found in the OT.) JN 20:22 In his first resurrection appearance before the assembled disciples, Jesus gives them the Holy Spirit. AC 1:3-5, AC 2:1-4 The Holy Spirit was received much later (on Pentecost.) JN 21:25 The world probably could not contain the books if all that Jesus did were to be recorded. AC 1:1 The author of Acts has already written about all that Jesus began to do. AC 5:19, 12:6-11 The disciples take part in a jailbreak made possible by an angel. AC 5:40-42 The disciples disobey the Council and continue to teach and preach Jesus. RO 13:1-4, 1PE 2:13-15 Obey the laws of men (i.e., government). It is the will of God. AC 5:29 Obey God, not men. RO 13:1-4, 1PE 2:13-15 Obey the laws of men (i.e., government). It is the will of God. AC 9:7 Those present at Paul's conversion heard the voice but saw no one. AC 22:9 They saw a light but did not hear a voice. AC 9:7 Those present at Paul's conversion stood. AC 26:14 They fell to the ground. AC 9:19-28 Shortly after his conversion, Paul went to Damascus, then Jerusalem where he was introduced to the Apostles by Barnabas, and there spent some time with them (going in and out among them). GA 1:15-20 He made the trip three years later, then saw only Peter and James. AC 9:23 The governor attempted to seize Paul. 2CO 11:32 It was the Jews who tried to seize Paul. AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike. RO 9:11-13 God hated Esau and loved Jacob even before their birth. AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike. RO 9:18 God has mercy on whoever he chooses, etc. AC 16:6 The Holy Spirit forbids preaching in Asia. AC 19:8-10 Paul preaches in Asia anyway. AC 20:35 Quotes Jesus as having said: "It is more blessed to give than to receive." (No such statement of Jesus is found elsewhere in the Bible.) RO 2:12 All who have sinned without the law will perish without the law. RO 4:15 Where there is no law there is no transgression (sin). RO 2:13 Doers of the law will be justified. RO 3:20, GA 3:11 They will not be justified. RO 2:15 The law is written on the heart. Conscience teaches right from wrong. 1JN 2:27 Anointing by Jesus teaches right from wrong. RO 4:9 Faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness. JA 2:21 Abraham was justified by works (which made his faith perfect). RO 10:11 (An alleged OT quote; no such statement in the OT.) RO 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything that might cause your brother to stumble or be offended. CN 2:16 Let no one pass judgement on you in matters of food and drink. 1CO 7:8-9 Widows should not marry (although it is better to marry than burn). 1TI 5:14 Young widows should marry, bear children, rule the household, etc.. 1CO 8:4 There is only one God. 2CO 4:4 Satan is God of this world (therefore there are at least two gods). 1CO 10:33 Paul says that he tries to please men (so they might be saved). GA 1:10 Paul says he would not be a servant of Christ if he tried to please men. 2CO 12:16 Paul says that he does use trickery. 1TH 2:3 Paul says that he does not use trickery. GA 6:2 Bear one another's burdens. GA 6:5 Bear your own burden. 1TH 2:2 God gave Paul the courage to continue his work. 1TH 2:17-18 Satan hindered Paul. (Note: Who is stronger, Satan or God?) 1TI 1:15 Paul says that he is the foremost of sinners. 1JN 3:8-10 He who commits sin is of the Devil. Children of God do not sin. TI 6:20, 2TI 2:14-16, 3:1-7 Do not argue with an unbeliever. 2JN 1:10-11 Anyone who even greets an unbeliever shares his wicked work. 1PE 3:15 Always be ready to answer any man concerning your faith. JA 4:5 (Quotes an alleged scripture [OT] verse not found in the OT.) RE 8:7 All of the grass on earth is burned up, and then ... REV 9:4 An army of locusts, which is about to be turned loose on the earth, is instructed not to harm the grass. >From http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.html Martin Quote
Guest Martin Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 On Jul 4, 8:50 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > In article <1183507567.422866.312...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Martin > Phipps <martinphip...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On Jul 4, 4:25 am, J...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > > Kerby Anderson is National Director of Probe Ministries International. He > > > received his B.S. from Oregon State University, M.F.S. from Yale > > > University, and M.A. from Georgetown University. He is the author of > > > several books, including Genetic Engineering, Origin Science, Living > > > Ethically in the 90s, Signs of Warning, Signs of Hope, Moral Dilemmas, and > > > Christian Ethics in Plain Language. He also served as general editor for > > > the Kregel Publications books Marriage, Family and Sexuality and > > > Technology, Spirituality, & Social Trends. He is a nationally syndicated > > > columnist whose editorials have appeared in the Dallas Morning News, the > > > Miami Herald, the San Jose Mercury, and the Houston Post. He is the host > > > of the "Probe" radio program, and frequently serves as host on "Point of > > > View" (USA Radio Network). > > > > What is Probe? > > > > Probe Ministries is a non-profit ministry whose mission is to assist the > > > church in renewing the minds of believers with a Christian worldview and > > > to equip the church to engage the world for Christ. > > > Before we read your article, you must first give us a reason to > > believe a single word that this lying Christian bastard has to say! > Several posters told me that one of the reasons they did not want > Intelligent Design taught in the public schools is because they don't want > teachers to teach lies and false information to students. Kerby Anderson > provides evidence that lies and false information is already being taught > to students in public schools. As of yet, no posters have indicated that > they do not want historical revisionism taught to public school students. > > I suggest that you visit this site. These experts in physics are not > Christians but are able to think outside the box. > > If you believe that Kerby is lying, check out the sources mentioned in the > notes sections. > > http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/07/03/paul_davies/ Jason, you're insane. Here's what the link says. "it's always a bad idea for people to decide what to believe on religious grounds and then to cherry-pick the scientific facts to fit" and "I want to stay away from a pre-existing cosmic magician who is there within time, for all eternity, and then brings the universe into being as part of a preconceived plan. I think that's just a naive, silly idea that doesn't fit the leanings of most theologians these days and doesn't fit the scientific facts." It in no way supports what you want us to believe. The title of the article is misleading. Once again, you've lead us to an article you didn't even bother to read yourself. Martin Quote
Guest cactus Posted July 4, 2007 Posted July 4, 2007 John Baker wrote: > On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 22:33:13 -0700, cactus <bm1@nonespam.com> wrote: > >> John Baker wrote: >>> On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:19:05 -0700, cactus <bm1@nonespam.com> wrote: >>> >>>> John Baker wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 22:43:48 -0700, cactus <bm1@nonespam.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jason wrote: >>>>>>> In article <b2Uhi.1897$3a.1744@bignews9.bellsouth.net>, "Ralph" >>>>>>> <mmman_90@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:Jason-3006072226260001@66-52-22-49.lsan.pw-dia.impulse.net... >>>>>>>>> In article <dXFhi.5208$vi5.754@newssvr17.news.prodigy.net>, >>>>>>>>> bm1@nonespam.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jason wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> In article <f63of0$e38$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >>>>>>>>>>> <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand your point: This is how I would ask the questions: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you believe humans evolved from other life-forms without any >>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement of god? yes or no >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you believe that both evolution and intelligent design should be >>>>>>>>>>>>> taught >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the public schools or just evolution? >>>>>>>>>>>> Do you believe something should be taught in schools that has no >>>>>>>>>>>> scientific backing? >>>>>>>>>>> If you are referring to Intelligent Design, it does have fossil >>>>>>>>>>> evidence >>>>>>>>>>> as scientific backing. There have been two books written related to >>>>>>>>>>> fossil >>>>>>>>>>> evidence that supports creation science and intelligent design. Dr. >>>>>>>>>>> Steven >>>>>>>>>>> Austin has a degree in geology from Penn State. He has led 15 research >>>>>>>>>>> expeditions to the Grand Canyon. His specialty is the sedimentary >>>>>>>>>>> processes that form rock strata and fossils. >>>>>>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They can write 10,000 books, they can destroy entire forests to >>>>>>>>>> perpetrate their views, but they are simply wasting resources >>>>>>>>>> until they can produce scientifically valid evidence in support of their >>>>>>>>>> beliefs. >>>>>>>>> Since evolutionists have control of the journals, the research papers that >>>>>>>>> are produced will never be published in journals. The most that we can do >>>>>>>>> is to publish books. >>>>>>>> Can't produce the scientific evidence, Jason old man? >>>>> <PIGGYBACKING> >>>>> >>>>>>> We can produce the evidence. >>>>> Who's "we", Skippy? Got a mouse in your pocket? >>>>> >>>>> No cretinist would ever pass up the chance to put those "Godless >>>>> evolutionists" in their place. If the IDiots had even the slightest >>>>> shred of real, testable objective evidence, they'd have produced it >>>>> long ago - and then spent the next ten years gloating over it. They >>>>> can no more produce evidence for their claims than I can fly to the >>>>> moon without a rocket. >>>>> >>>>>>> However, the journal editors know that they >>>>>>> would be criticized by fellow evolutionists if they published our articles >>>>>>> in their journals. >>>>> Would you like some cheese to go with that whine? >>>>> >>>>> When the hell are you people going to drop this idiotic "scientific >>>>> conspiracy" crap? Articles on ID don't get published in scientific >>>>> journals for a very simple, very good reason. ID ISN"T SCIENCE!!! How >>>>> many times do we have to tell you this before it sinks into that >>>>> useless mass of inert ganglia you call a brain? >>>>> >>>> This is confusing. Were you talking to me? >>> No, I was talking to Jason. This thread is getting out of hand, so I >>> delete most of Jason's posts unread and read only the replies. I >>> decided to respond to Jason't tired old claim of deliberate censorship >>> of "creation science" (although I have no idea why I bothered), but >>> had to "piggyback" on your post since Jason's original had been >>> deleted. >>> >>> Sorry for the confusion. >> It is a confusing, sorry mess, isn't it? :-) > > It is indeed, and I confess I'm out of patience with our willfully > ignorant "friend". A five year old could have learned something from > this thread by now, but apparently not Jason. It would seem that he's > unwilling (or perhaps geniunely unable) to consider anything that > doesn't agree with his preconceived notions. It will be interesting to see how or whether he responds to my question about why he's here. I'm not asking him anything that I haven't asked myself. The answer is starting to be (for me anyway) "no good reason." > >>>>>> There is no reason for you not to produce it - it would bolster your >>>>>> case. But the reason you don't is that your alleged "evidence" isn't. >>>>>> It's an amalgam of outright lies, distorted science and religious dogma. >>>>>> If it were valid science, it would get published, somewhere. But they >>>>>> can't even get published in the "Journal of Irreproducible Results." >>>>>> That's because their writings don't even rise to the level of scientific >>>>>> parody. Quote
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