Guest Jason Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <tpednXamOYnARoPanZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com>, Charles & Mambo Duckman <duckman@gfy.slf> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > > > I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his > > doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an > > option? > > Hell, I am an atheist and I am considering suicide as an option right now. > And every other time I read your tripe. > > > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option > > until it's their ass, then all bets are off. Most Christians are hypocrites, > after all. I now understand one of the reasons the child and teen suicide rates rose for the first time in more than a decade. 6abc.comWebSuperpages.com Child Suicide Rate Spikes ABCNews ABC News Medical Unit Feb. 5, 2007 - February 5, 2007 - Child and teen suicide rates rose for the first time in more than a decade in 2004 - According to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention's Annual Summary of Vital Statistics released Monday, the suicide rate rose more than 18 percent in those 1 to 19 years old, from 2.2 per 100,000 in 2003 to 2.6 per 100,000 in 2004. In those 15 to 19 years old, the figures reflected a more than 12 percent rise in suicide, from 7.3 per 100,000 in 2003 to 8.2 per 100,000 in 2004. Quote
Guest 655321 Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <Jason-2310072332180001@66-53-208-59.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > I now understand No you don't. -- 655321 "We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi Quote
Guest 655321 Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <Jason-2310072223380001@66-53-208-59.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > You failed to answer my simple question The failure is yours to expect one. First, you must prove yourself worthy of a respectful response to an intrusive, personal question. You have not. No one knowingly opens up to a liar. This is you. No one knowingly opens up to another person who fails basic listening tests. This is you. So why waste the psychic energy on an intellectual, ethical and emotional houseplant such as yourself? (Apologies to houseplants.) -- 655321 "We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 [snips] On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason wrote: > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. Ick. How could anyone adopt a belief which only offers two equally hateful options? Thankfully, as an atheist, I don't worry about such things; I fully expect to go into the ground and become worm food. None of this everlasting life for me. > When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing > them a favor. You're not. > I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his > doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an > option? Possibly. > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most > Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause > them to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist > do in that situation? What would you do in that situation? In that situation? Don't know. However, having _been_ on the brink once, I'll let you in on a little secret: sometimes things just hurt so much you don't want to keep going, it's just not worth it. The typical Christian notion of Heaven is like that. Since it involves eternal life, it means long enough that nothing has any meaning, long enough that there's nothing left but the horror of more and more and more of the same thing every day, every year, every millennium, with no end, ever, no release, no stopping, nothing but horror on top of horror on top of horror. You want to stop. You want to die. You want an end... but there isn't one. Nothing will ever reduce the suffering. It is forever . The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things get unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting blanket of death. Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. Prove it. -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
Guest James Beck Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, witchypoo@broomstick.com says... > > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip > > > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > > Prove it. > Ah, sending him around in the circle again. Jim Quote
Guest Mike Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 Jason wrote: > You failed to answer my simple question--Would you consider suicide if > your doctor told you that had Parkinson's Disease? Did you ever think that people don't answer your stupid questions because they're...well, they're stupid. "Did you ever quit beating your wife?" Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:23:38 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2310072223380001@66-53-208-59.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >In article <2m4th3pufduaj3b7la3c7sfahggrqpqtk3@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) trying to make Christians look bad wrote in >> <Jason-2310071711090001@67-150-124-34.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >> >In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> > Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that your >> >> > spend eternity in heaven >> >> >> >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your >> >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would >> >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery >> >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? >> > >> >Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> You don't have any evidence that this is the case. >> >> >When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing >them a >> >favor. >> >> When you tell us about it, you are being a self-righteous jerk. If you >> must pray for others, Jesus told you to do it silently, not broadcast to >> everyone how wonderful of a believer you think you are. Jesus made it >> quite clear that he wasn't remotely impressed by people who acted that >> way. >> >> >I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >> >doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >> >option? >> >> For Parkinson's? Why? >> > >> >Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >> >Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them >> >to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in >> >that situation? What would you do in that situation? >> >> Once more, your smug ignorance of anyone who isn't a "Christian" like >> you is incredible irritating and insulting to those who are both >> Christian and not Christian. You act like the Pharisees that were >> condemned in the Gospels (even though the Pharisees of the Gospels are >> mocking parodies of the Pharisees found in history). > >You failed to answer my simple question--Would you consider suicide if >your doctor told you that had Parkinson's Disease? > Don't you recognize an answer when you see it? I answered: "For Parkinson's? Why?" Are you incapable of seeing that this was a negative answer? While I see no point in wasting the resources of humanity to keep me alive when I am irreversibly at the point of death, I cannot think of any circumstances under which I would commit suicide. It has nothing to do with silly stories about heaven or hell, it has to do with the fact that I really enjoy life and want to get the most out of it. If I do start considering suicide, it will be evidence to me that I am seriously depressed and need medical attention. Quote
Guest Tokay Pino Gris Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >>> Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that your >>> spend eternity in heaven >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? > > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. When > I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing them a > favor. You are not. Actually, you are doing nothing. Aside from pampering your own mind. > > I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his > doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an > option? For Parkinsons? Why? > > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most > Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them > to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in > that situation? What would you do in that situation? What is the question here? Aside from Parkinson. Let's make the disease something really ugly. The doctor tells you that you will only have a year to live and that the last couple of months will be pure horror (there is a disease like that. Not nice, trust me). So, tell me. Given that case. What actually is bad suicide under that conditions? And I don't mean right from scratch. I mean when those final days/months arrive. There is no hope. No cure. Just pain. Trust me, I have seen those people. And I bet you quite a sum that out of ten people, a few would consider suicide. About the same amount would hang on no matter what (and loose). Independently of religion. There does come a point of no return in medicine. When there is nothing more to be done. What would you do? Let the poor schmuck die in agony? Because let him die you must. There is no choice regarding that. Keep him alive no matter what? Or give him the pain killers that in a way will kill his pain but will kill him a little bit sooner. I know. "First, do no harm". Medicine is long past that. We DO harm. Ask ANY doctor and he will have at least one skeleton in the closet, for whatever reason. A doctor without one, as silly as this sounds, is no good. Does not take risks, does not ask the patient to take the risk. So what does he do? Homeopathy? Forget Parkinson. It is bad, granted. But it is not the prospect of unimaginable pain. So, as long as you make up such examples, make sure they are worthwhile considering. Besides, it is totally off topic concerning the question posed. You evaded the discussion. Bad behaviour. Dishonest. But your like loves to do that. Tokay -- Little is the number that think with their own mind and feel with their own heart Albert Einstein Quote
Guest 655321 Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <dnevh31sd73mhmcr7s6bdgck4364htafpu@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > Don't you recognize an answer when you see it? I answered: "For > Parkinson's? Why?" You were generous. It was more answer than Jason deserves. -- 655321 "We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <61u3v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > > Ick. How could anyone adopt a belief which only offers two equally > hateful options? > > Thankfully, as an atheist, I don't worry about such things; I fully expect > to go into the ground and become worm food. None of this everlasting life > for me. If I felt the same way, I would have committed suicide several years ago when my doctor told me that I had a lung disease. I now understand why so many young people are committing suicide. They probably believe that since they will become worm food when they die--why bother dealing with the pain related to their boy friends or girl friends walking out on them. > > > When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing > > them a favor. > > You're not. > > > I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his > > doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an > > option? > > Possibly. > > > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most > > Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause > > them to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist > > do in that situation? What would you do in that situation? > > In that situation? Don't know. However, having _been_ on the brink once, > I'll let you in on a little secret: sometimes things just hurt so much you > don't want to keep going, it's just not worth it. > > The typical Christian notion of Heaven is like that. Since it involves > eternal life, it means long enough that nothing has any meaning, long > enough that there's nothing left but the horror of more and more and more > of the same thing every day, every year, every millennium, with no end, > ever, no release, no stopping, nothing but horror on top of horror on top > of horror. > > You want to stop. You want to die. You want an end... but there > isn't one. Nothing will ever reduce the suffering. It is forever . > > The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the > supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things get > unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting > blanket of death. If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. If I am correct, it means that you will be spending eternity in hell unless you become a Christian before you die. Why take a chance on being wrong? Many people believe they are correct. Those sorts of people soon realize that they are not always correct when they lose lots of money by betting on their favorite sports team. I had a friend that honestly believed he could win 100 million dollars in the California lottery. He purchased a thousand dollars worth of ticket. He did not win. He thought he was correct but he was wrong. You believe you are correct but you could be wrong. jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <ffofhb$3ue$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> [snips] > >> > >> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> > >>> Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that your > >>> spend eternity in heaven > >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your > >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would > >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery > >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? > > > > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. When > > I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing them a > > favor. > > You are not. Actually, you are doing nothing. Aside from pampering your > own mind. > > > > > I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his > > doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an > > option? > > For Parkinsons? Why? > > > > > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most > > Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them > > to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in > > that situation? What would you do in that situation? > > What is the question here? Aside from Parkinson. > > Let's make the disease something really ugly. The doctor tells you that > you will only have a year to live and that the last couple of months > will be pure horror (there is a disease like that. Not nice, trust me). > > So, tell me. Given that case. What actually is bad suicide under that > conditions? And I don't mean right from scratch. I mean when those final > days/months arrive. There is no hope. No cure. Just pain. Trust me, I > have seen those people. > > And I bet you quite a sum that out of ten people, a few would consider > suicide. About the same amount would hang on no matter what (and loose). > > Independently of religion. > > There does come a point of no return in medicine. When there is nothing > more to be done. What would you do? Let the poor schmuck die in agony? > Because let him die you must. There is no choice regarding that. Keep > him alive no matter what? Or give him the pain killers that in a way > will kill his pain but will kill him a little bit sooner. > > I know. "First, do no harm". Medicine is long past that. We DO harm. Ask > ANY doctor and he will have at least one skeleton in the closet, for > whatever reason. A doctor without one, as silly as this sounds, is no > good. Does not take risks, does not ask the patient to take the risk. So > what does he do? Homeopathy? > > Forget Parkinson. It is bad, granted. But it is not the prospect of > unimaginable pain. > > So, as long as you make up such examples, make sure they are worthwhile > considering. > > Besides, it is totally off topic concerning the question posed. You > evaded the discussion. Bad behaviour. > Dishonest. > > But your like loves to do that. > > > Tokay For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <dnevh31sd73mhmcr7s6bdgck4364htafpu@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:23:38 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2310072223380001@66-53-208-59.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >In article <2m4th3pufduaj3b7la3c7sfahggrqpqtk3@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) trying to make Christians look bad wrote in > >> <Jason-2310071711090001@67-150-124-34.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >> >In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > >> ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> [snips] > >> >> > >> >> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that your > >> >> > spend eternity in heaven > >> >> > >> >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your > >> >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would > >> >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery > >> >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? > >> > > >> >Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > >> > >> You don't have any evidence that this is the case. > >> > >> >When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing > >them a > >> >favor. > >> > >> When you tell us about it, you are being a self-righteous jerk. If you > >> must pray for others, Jesus told you to do it silently, not broadcast to > >> everyone how wonderful of a believer you think you are. Jesus made it > >> quite clear that he wasn't remotely impressed by people who acted that > >> way. > >> > >> >I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his > >> >doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an > >> >option? > >> > >> For Parkinson's? Why? > >> > > >> >Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most > >> >Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them > >> >to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in > >> >that situation? What would you do in that situation? > >> > >> Once more, your smug ignorance of anyone who isn't a "Christian" like > >> you is incredible irritating and insulting to those who are both > >> Christian and not Christian. You act like the Pharisees that were > >> condemned in the Gospels (even though the Pharisees of the Gospels are > >> mocking parodies of the Pharisees found in history). > > > >You failed to answer my simple question--Would you consider suicide if > >your doctor told you that had Parkinson's Disease? > > > Don't you recognize an answer when you see it? I answered: "For > Parkinson's? Why?" > > Are you incapable of seeing that this was a negative answer? > > While I see no point in wasting the resources of humanity to keep me > alive when I am irreversibly at the point of death, I cannot think of > any circumstances under which I would commit suicide. It has nothing to > do with silly stories about heaven or hell, it has to do with the fact > that I really enjoy life and want to get the most out of it. If I do > start considering suicide, it will be evidence to me that I am seriously > depressed and need medical attention. I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a crisis situation than a Christian. The reason I believe it is because most Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to end that crisis situation. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip > > > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > > Prove it. You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:07:18 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2410071607180001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >In article <dnevh31sd73mhmcr7s6bdgck4364htafpu@4ax.com>, Free Lunch ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:23:38 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2310072223380001@66-53-208-59.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >> >In article <2m4th3pufduaj3b7la3c7sfahggrqpqtk3@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, in alt.atheism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) trying to make Christians look bad wrote in >> >> <Jason-2310071711090001@67-150-124-34.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >> >> >In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> >> ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that your >> >> >> > spend eternity in heaven >> >> >> >> >> >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your >> >> >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would >> >> >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery >> >> >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? >> >> > >> >> >Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> >> >> You don't have any evidence that this is the case. >> >> >> >> >When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing >> >them a >> >> >favor. >> >> >> >> When you tell us about it, you are being a self-righteous jerk. If you >> >> must pray for others, Jesus told you to do it silently, not broadcast to >> >> everyone how wonderful of a believer you think you are. Jesus made it >> >> quite clear that he wasn't remotely impressed by people who acted that >> >> way. >> >> >> >> >I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >> >> >doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >> >> >option? >> >> >> >> For Parkinson's? Why? >> >> > >> >> >Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >> >> >Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them >> >> >to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in >> >> >that situation? What would you do in that situation? >> >> >> >> Once more, your smug ignorance of anyone who isn't a "Christian" like >> >> you is incredible irritating and insulting to those who are both >> >> Christian and not Christian. You act like the Pharisees that were >> >> condemned in the Gospels (even though the Pharisees of the Gospels are >> >> mocking parodies of the Pharisees found in history). >> > >> >You failed to answer my simple question--Would you consider suicide if >> >your doctor told you that had Parkinson's Disease? >> > >> Don't you recognize an answer when you see it? I answered: "For >> Parkinson's? Why?" >> >> Are you incapable of seeing that this was a negative answer? >> >> While I see no point in wasting the resources of humanity to keep me >> alive when I am irreversibly at the point of death, I cannot think of >> any circumstances under which I would commit suicide. It has nothing to >> do with silly stories about heaven or hell, it has to do with the fact >> that I really enjoy life and want to get the most out of it. If I do >> start considering suicide, it will be evidence to me that I am seriously >> depressed and need medical attention. > >I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a >crisis situation than a Christian. The reason I believe it is because most >Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists >don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to >end that crisis situation. Once again you make claims based on nothing but your ignorant guesses. Why don't you ever offer evidence? By the way, not nearly as many Christians are as self-righteous about suicide as you are. Most are willing to take the reasons for the suicide into account. Once again, you teach a judgmental form of Christianity that seems to have more in common with the smug and self-righteous religious people that Jesus condemned than with the teachings of Jesus. You really need to start to learn the Gospels if you want to call yourself a Christian. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:58:40 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2410071558410001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >In article <61u3v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> Ick. How could anyone adopt a belief which only offers two equally >> hateful options? >> >> Thankfully, as an atheist, I don't worry about such things; I fully expect >> to go into the ground and become worm food. None of this everlasting life >> for me. > >If I felt the same way, I would have committed suicide several years ago >when my doctor told me that I had a lung disease. I now understand why so >many young people are committing suicide. They probably believe that since >they will become worm food when they die--why bother dealing with the pain >related to their boy friends or girl friends walking out on them. What a selfish view of the world you have. Do you really think that the only reason you are here is to be able to get to Heaven? >> > When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing >> > them a favor. >> >> You're not. >> >> > I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >> > doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >> > option? >> >> Possibly. >> >> > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >> > Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause >> > them to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist >> > do in that situation? What would you do in that situation? >> >> In that situation? Don't know. However, having _been_ on the brink once, >> I'll let you in on a little secret: sometimes things just hurt so much you >> don't want to keep going, it's just not worth it. >> >> The typical Christian notion of Heaven is like that. Since it involves >> eternal life, it means long enough that nothing has any meaning, long >> enough that there's nothing left but the horror of more and more and more >> of the same thing every day, every year, every millennium, with no end, >> ever, no release, no stopping, nothing but horror on top of horror on top >> of horror. >> >> You want to stop. You want to die. You want an end... but there >> isn't one. Nothing will ever reduce the suffering. It is forever . >> >> The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the >> supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things get >> unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting >> blanket of death. > >If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. If I am >correct, it means that you will be spending eternity in hell unless you >become a Christian before you die. Why take a chance on being wrong? Pascal's Wager is defective. There are many ways you could lose because you claim to be a Christian. I won't call it losing if there is no heaven, hell or soul, even though that is what the evidence says. Let's just consider two possible ways you can be wrong and suffer consequences for it: 1. God hates your self-righeousness and sends you to hell for being so smug. 2. The god that controls the afterlife hates the God you worship and sends all of His followers to hell while giving a paradise to those who ignore gods and the afterlife. >Many people believe they are correct. Those sorts of people soon realize >that they are not always correct when they lose lots of money by betting >on their favorite sports team. I had a friend that honestly believed he >could win 100 million dollars in the California lottery. He purchased a >thousand dollars worth of ticket. He did not win. He thought he was >correct but he was wrong. You believe you are correct but you could be >wrong. You claim to be correct but don't have a shred of evidence to support your doctrines. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:08:05 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2410071608060001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip >> >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> Prove it. > >You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. > Do you really think that a loving God would ever countenance your smug condescending behavior? Quote
Guest Ralph Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2410071607180001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com... > In article <dnevh31sd73mhmcr7s6bdgck4364htafpu@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:23:38 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2310072223380001@66-53-208-59.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >> >In article <2m4th3pufduaj3b7la3c7sfahggrqpqtk3@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >> ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, in alt.atheism >> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) trying to make Christians look bad wrote in >> >> <Jason-2310071711090001@67-150-124-34.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >> >> >In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> >> ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> > Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that >> >> >> > your >> >> >> > spend eternity in heaven >> >> >> >> >> >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has >> >> >> your >> >> >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you >> >> >> would >> >> >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless >> >> >> misery >> >> >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? >> >> > >> >> >Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> >> >> You don't have any evidence that this is the case. >> >> >> >> >When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am >> >> >doing >> >them a >> >> >favor. >> >> >> >> When you tell us about it, you are being a self-righteous jerk. If you >> >> must pray for others, Jesus told you to do it silently, not broadcast >> >> to >> >> everyone how wonderful of a believer you think you are. Jesus made it >> >> quite clear that he wasn't remotely impressed by people who acted that >> >> way. >> >> >> >> >I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by >> >> >his >> >> >doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as >> >> >an >> >> >option? >> >> >> >> For Parkinson's? Why? >> >> > >> >> >Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >> >> >Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause >> >> >them >> >> >to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do >> >> >in >> >> >that situation? What would you do in that situation? >> >> >> >> Once more, your smug ignorance of anyone who isn't a "Christian" like >> >> you is incredible irritating and insulting to those who are both >> >> Christian and not Christian. You act like the Pharisees that were >> >> condemned in the Gospels (even though the Pharisees of the Gospels are >> >> mocking parodies of the Pharisees found in history). >> > >> >You failed to answer my simple question--Would you consider suicide if >> >your doctor told you that had Parkinson's Disease? >> > >> Don't you recognize an answer when you see it? I answered: "For >> Parkinson's? Why?" >> >> Are you incapable of seeing that this was a negative answer? >> >> While I see no point in wasting the resources of humanity to keep me >> alive when I am irreversibly at the point of death, I cannot think of >> any circumstances under which I would commit suicide. It has nothing to >> do with silly stories about heaven or hell, it has to do with the fact >> that I really enjoy life and want to get the most out of it. If I do >> start considering suicide, it will be evidence to me that I am seriously >> depressed and need medical attention. > > I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a > crisis situation than a Christian. The reason I believe it is because most > Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists > don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to > end that crisis situation. > Jason Get the fuck out of here you sniveling little bastard! Quote
Guest Ralph Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2410071558410001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com... > In article <61u3v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> Ick. How could anyone adopt a belief which only offers two equally >> hateful options? >> >> Thankfully, as an atheist, I don't worry about such things; I fully >> expect >> to go into the ground and become worm food. None of this everlasting >> life >> for me. > > If I felt the same way, I would have committed suicide several years ago > when my doctor told me that I had a lung disease. I now understand why so > many young people are committing suicide. They probably believe that since > they will become worm food when they die--why bother dealing with the pain > related to their boy friends or girl friends walking out on them. I wish you had committed suicide. Keep running that mealy mouth of yours and you someone might help you. I really hope so. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2410071608060001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com... > In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip >> >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> Prove it. > > You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. What a joke you are, you sniveling little coward. You and your god are at about the same level. Quote
Guest Ralph Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2410071602200001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com... > In article <ffofhb$3ue$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris > <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >> > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> [snips] >> >> >> >> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >>> Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that >> >>> your >> >>> spend eternity in heaven >> >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your >> >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would >> >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery >> >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? >> > >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> > When >> > I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing them >> > a >> > favor. >> >> You are not. Actually, you are doing nothing. Aside from pampering your >> own mind. >> >> > >> > I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >> > doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >> > option? >> >> For Parkinsons? Why? >> >> > >> > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >> > Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause >> > them >> > to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do >> > in >> > that situation? What would you do in that situation? >> >> What is the question here? Aside from Parkinson. >> >> Let's make the disease something really ugly. The doctor tells you that >> you will only have a year to live and that the last couple of months >> will be pure horror (there is a disease like that. Not nice, trust me). >> >> So, tell me. Given that case. What actually is bad suicide under that >> conditions? And I don't mean right from scratch. I mean when those final >> days/months arrive. There is no hope. No cure. Just pain. Trust me, I >> have seen those people. >> >> And I bet you quite a sum that out of ten people, a few would consider >> suicide. About the same amount would hang on no matter what (and loose). >> >> Independently of religion. >> >> There does come a point of no return in medicine. When there is nothing >> more to be done. What would you do? Let the poor schmuck die in agony? >> Because let him die you must. There is no choice regarding that. Keep >> him alive no matter what? Or give him the pain killers that in a way >> will kill his pain but will kill him a little bit sooner. >> >> I know. "First, do no harm". Medicine is long past that. We DO harm. Ask >> ANY doctor and he will have at least one skeleton in the closet, for >> whatever reason. A doctor without one, as silly as this sounds, is no >> good. Does not take risks, does not ask the patient to take the risk. So >> what does he do? Homeopathy? >> >> Forget Parkinson. It is bad, granted. But it is not the prospect of >> unimaginable pain. >> >> So, as long as you make up such examples, make sure they are worthwhile >> considering. >> >> Besides, it is totally off topic concerning the question posed. You >> evaded the discussion. Bad behaviour. >> Dishonest. >> >> But your like loves to do that. >> >> >> Tokay > > For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers > where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are > allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. > Jason Go to hell, you little son of a bitch, you don't have a god damn fucking clue!!!! Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <2aovh3dn15ve9r8t13gokdeoqj0mmidfq1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:58:40 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2410071558410001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >In article <61u3v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> [snips] > >> > >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> > >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > >> > >> Ick. How could anyone adopt a belief which only offers two equally > >> hateful options? > >> > >> Thankfully, as an atheist, I don't worry about such things; I fully expect > >> to go into the ground and become worm food. None of this everlasting life > >> for me. > > > >If I felt the same way, I would have committed suicide several years ago > >when my doctor told me that I had a lung disease. I now understand why so > >many young people are committing suicide. They probably believe that since > >they will become worm food when they die--why bother dealing with the pain > >related to their boy friends or girl friends walking out on them. > > What a selfish view of the world you have. Do you really think that the > only reason you are here is to be able to get to Heaven? > > >> > When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing > >> > them a favor. > >> > >> You're not. > >> > >> > I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his > >> > doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an > >> > option? > >> > >> Possibly. > >> > >> > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most > >> > Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause > >> > them to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist > >> > do in that situation? What would you do in that situation? > >> > >> In that situation? Don't know. However, having _been_ on the brink once, > >> I'll let you in on a little secret: sometimes things just hurt so much you > >> don't want to keep going, it's just not worth it. > >> > >> The typical Christian notion of Heaven is like that. Since it involves > >> eternal life, it means long enough that nothing has any meaning, long > >> enough that there's nothing left but the horror of more and more and more > >> of the same thing every day, every year, every millennium, with no end, > >> ever, no release, no stopping, nothing but horror on top of horror on top > >> of horror. > >> > >> You want to stop. You want to die. You want an end... but there > >> isn't one. Nothing will ever reduce the suffering. It is forever . > >> > >> The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the > >> supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things get > >> unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting > >> blanket of death. > > > >If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. If I am > >correct, it means that you will be spending eternity in hell unless you > >become a Christian before you die. Why take a chance on being wrong? > > Pascal's Wager is defective. There are many ways you could lose because > you claim to be a Christian. I won't call it losing if there is no > heaven, hell or soul, even though that is what the evidence says. Let's > just consider two possible ways you can be wrong and suffer consequences > for it: > > 1. God hates your self-righeousness and sends you to hell for being so > smug. > > 2. The god that controls the afterlife hates the God you worship and > sends all of His followers to hell while giving a paradise to those who > ignore gods and the afterlife. > > >Many people believe they are correct. Those sorts of people soon realize > >that they are not always correct when they lose lots of money by betting > >on their favorite sports team. I had a friend that honestly believed he > >could win 100 million dollars in the California lottery. He purchased a > >thousand dollars worth of ticket. He did not win. He thought he was > >correct but he was wrong. You believe you are correct but you could be > >wrong. > > You claim to be correct but don't have a shred of evidence to support > your doctrines. Even if I am wrong--I have lost nothing. If you are wrong, you will be spending eternity in hell. I once had a co-worker that was an atheist. He bragged about having sex with over 100 different women. If I was an atheist, I probably also would have had sex with over 100 different women. Which of us is better off? I do not have any sexual related diseases. He will have Genital Herpes for the rest of his life. I believe that I am better off than my former co-worker. Quote
Guest The Chief Instigator Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) writes: >In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> Prove it. >You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. Thanks for admitting that you have no proof. -- Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2007-08 Houston Aeros) AA#2273 LAST GAME: Houston 6, San Antonio 5 (SO) (October 19) NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 27 at San Antonio, 7:05 Quote
Guest Mike Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Jason wrote: > I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a > crisis situation than a Christian. The reason I believe it is because most > Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists > don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to > end that crisis situation. According to that piss-poor logic, xians should be falling all over themselves for a chance to sacrifice themselves for others (taking the bullet, running into burning buildings, etc.) knowing that they'd go to heaven under those circumstances. But yet you don't see that happening that often. Hell, there should be standing room only in the fire and police academies but there's not. Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote snip > If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. If I am > correct, it means that you will be spending eternity in hell unless you > become a Christian before you die. Why take a chance on being wrong? Why do you take a chance on possibly believing in the wrong god? Why not play it safe and believe in all of them? -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
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