Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote snip > > Even if I am wrong--I have lost nothing. If you are wrong, you will be > spending eternity in hell. Prove hell exists first. I once had a co-worker that was an atheist. He > bragged about having sex with over 100 different women. If I was an > atheist, I probably also would have had sex with over 100 different women. I know plenty of christians that have done that and more. What does being an atheist or a christian have to do with it? You think christians don't have premarital and/or adulterous sex? -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
Guest Robibnikoff Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:Jason-2410071608060001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com... > In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip >> >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> Prove it. > > You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. Prove that. -- Robyn Resident Witchypoo BAAWA Knight! #1557 Quote
Guest James Beck Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <Jason-2410071558410001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, Jason@nospam.com says... > Subject: Re: Is There an Alternative to the Theory of Evolution? > From: Jason <Jason@nospam.com> > Newsgroups: talk.atheism, alt.talk.creationism, alt.religion, alt.atheism > > In article <61u3v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > > > [snips] > > > > On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > > > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > > > > Ick. How could anyone adopt a belief which only offers two equally > > hateful options? > > > > Thankfully, as an atheist, I don't worry about such things; I fully expect > > to go into the ground and become worm food. None of this everlasting life > > for me. > > If I felt the same way, I would have committed suicide several years ago > when my doctor told me that I had a lung disease. I now understand why so > many young people are committing suicide. They probably believe that since > they will become worm food when they die--why bother dealing with the pain > related to their boy friends or girl friends walking out on them. > > I think you will find it is a lot of good 'ol christan kids bumping themselves off. Hell, if I had to twist my mind to the point that the little black book made any sense, I would probably die from an aneurysm on the spot. Just about every church has some program for teen age suicide prevention. You don't honestly think it is the atheists that are using that service, to you? Jim Quote
Guest James Beck Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <Jason-2410071607180001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, Jason@nospam.com says... > > > While I see no point in wasting the resources of humanity to keep me > > alive when I am irreversibly at the point of death, I cannot think of > > any circumstances under which I would commit suicide. It has nothing to > > do with silly stories about heaven or hell, it has to do with the fact > > that I really enjoy life and want to get the most out of it. If I do > > start considering suicide, it will be evidence to me that I am seriously > > depressed and need medical attention. > > I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a > crisis situation than a Christian. The reason I believe it is because most > Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists > don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to > end that crisis situation. > Jason > Once again, your false morality fails you. It is the will to survive that evolution has built in us that makes us go on. I wonder how many christians just lay down and die because they think that god is going to take care of them. What was the story, Touching the Void? The survivor credited his atheism with his will to go on. When you don't believe in an after life, you tend to make this real life as good and long as possible. Quite the opposite of what YOU would like to believe. Jim Quote
Guest James Beck Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <Jason-2410071608060001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, Jason@nospam.com says... > In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip > > > > > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > > > > Prove it. > > You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. > > > It's too bad when the curtain falls and all is dark, you won't have that moment of realization that it was all a lie. You'll just blink out like everyone that died before you and that will be it. Jim Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 [snips] On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:58:40 -0700, Jason wrote: >> The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the >> supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things >> get unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting >> blanket of death. > If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. Pascal's Wager. Debunked back in what, 1650? Should really keep up with your reading, you're about 350 years out of date. > Many people believe they are correct. Doesn't matter, frankly, if I'm correct or you are, or someone else entirely. You again miss the point: if there is such a thing as "Heaven", this is not a reward; it is the most heinous punishment conceivable. -- “The Will of God is the sanctuary of ignorance.” -- Spinoza Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 [snips] On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:53:51 -0700, Jason wrote: >> 1. God hates your self-righeousness and sends you to hell for being so >> smug. >> >> 2. The god that controls the afterlife hates the God you worship and >> sends all of His followers to hell while giving a paradise to those who >> ignore gods and the afterlife. >> You claim to be correct but don't have a shred of evidence to support >> your doctrines. > Even if I am wrong--I have lost nothing. He just pointed out where you lose. Where you get sent to hell for believing the wrong god, or believing the right one by being smug about it. -- Please and What great feat have you done for mankind? -- Don Ward For one thing, I’ve erased your message. -- Marty Leipzig Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 [snips] On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: > For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers > where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are > allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. No, Jason, there are not. There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the anaesthetics required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. -- May you back into a pitchfork and grab a hot stove for support. Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? >Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. The question wasn't about reality (which, like every Christian, you got wrong), it was about what you want for people. >When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing them a >favor. Why do you feel that when you do something to someone that the person doesn't want you to do, it's a favor? Would you consider it a favor if someone did something to you that you didn't want him to do? >I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >option? >Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them >to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in >that situation? The same as the typical human being would. -- Al at Webdingers dot com I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them. - Adlai E. Stevenson Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:07:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a >crisis situation than a Christian. Which is why a greater percentage of suicides are theists than atheists? > The reason I believe it is because most >Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists >don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to >end that crisis situation. Atheists also don't see crises in a lot of situations in which theists do. -- Al at Webdingers dot com It is not what I don't understand in the bible that worries me---it is what I do understand. - Mark Twain Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:32:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >In article <tpednXamOYnARoPanZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com>, Charles & Mambo >Duckman <duckman@gfy.slf> wrote: >> Jason wrote: >> > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option >> until it's their ass, then all bets are off. Most Christians are hypocrites, >> after all. >I now understand one of the reasons the child and teen suicide rates rose >for the first time in more than a decade. The recent rise in Christianity? -- Al at Webdingers dot com "One man's religion is another man's belly laugh" - Robert Heinlein Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:53:51 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >Even if I am wrong--I have lost nothing. If there's no god you've lost years of effort. If there's a god who sends all Christians to hell, but all atheists to heaven, you've lost big-time. >Which of us is better off? I do not have any sexual related diseases. You have willful stupidity, which is a FAR worse disease than anything transmitted sexually. -- Al at Webdingers dot com "I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it." - Letter to S. Flesch, April 16, 1954; Einstein Archive 30-1154 Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:08:05 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip >> >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> >> Prove it. > >You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. I died. There was no heaven. There was no hell. But there WAS something all Christians should live in dread of. -- Al at Webdingers dot com "religion did for bullshit, what Stonehenge did for rocks" - The World Famous Tink Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >[snips] > >On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers >> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are >> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. > >No, Jason, there are not. > >There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the anaesthetics >required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage. -- Al at Webdingers dot com "A myth is a fixed way of looking at the world which cannot be destroyed because, looked at through the myth, all evidence supports the myth." - Edward De Bono Quote
Guest Tokay Pino Gris Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 Al Klein wrote: > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers >>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are >>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. >> No, Jason, there are not. >> >> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the anaesthetics >> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. > > There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of > anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the > pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage. I would not call it "mistake". Tell you the truth, we do it on purpose. If the patient is in so much pain, and has no hope whatsoever. What should we do? Let him die tomorrow with 24 hours of pain or let him die painless today? Tell you another thing. We live with them. We KNOW we gave hin too much morphine. And that is what killed him today. And not on his own tomorrow. I know the faces. I SAW them. That is no fun. We KNOW that it will shorten their lifes.... by a few hours. You have any idea how often the death certificate should say "morphine overdose" rather than some other horrible cause? The difference is maybe a day. On the outside. Tokay -- My idea of an agreeable person, is a person who agrees with me. Benjamin Disraeli Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <jgs6v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:53:51 -0700, Jason wrote: > > >> 1. God hates your self-righeousness and sends you to hell for being so > >> smug. > >> > >> 2. The god that controls the afterlife hates the God you worship and > >> sends all of His followers to hell while giving a paradise to those who > >> ignore gods and the afterlife. > > >> You claim to be correct but don't have a shred of evidence to support > >> your doctrines. > > > Even if I am wrong--I have lost nothing. > > He just pointed out where you lose. Where you get sent to hell for > believing the wrong god, or believing the right one by being smug about it. I'm not worried about any of those issues. Quote
Guest Matt Silberstein Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:34:50 -0700, in alt.atheism , Jason@nospam.com (Jason) in <Jason-2510071534500001@67-150-173-216.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com> wrote: >In article <jgs6v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:53:51 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> >> 1. God hates your self-righeousness and sends you to hell for being so >> >> smug. >> >> >> >> 2. The god that controls the afterlife hates the God you worship and >> >> sends all of His followers to hell while giving a paradise to those who >> >> ignore gods and the afterlife. >> >> >> You claim to be correct but don't have a shred of evidence to support >> >> your doctrines. >> >> > Even if I am wrong--I have lost nothing. >> >> He just pointed out where you lose. Where you get sent to hell for >> believing the wrong god, or believing the right one by being smug about it. > >I'm not worried about any of those issues. > How sad for you. Smug assurance is not normally considered a Christian virtue. -- Matt Silberstein Do something today about the Darfur Genocide http://www.beawitness.org http://www.darfurgenocide.org http://www.savedarfur.org "Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop" Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <dp42i3hsmsker0ecuvjohen43bnn490h7a@4ax.com>, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:08:05 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip > >> > >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > >> > >> Prove it. > > > >You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. > > I died. There was no heaven. There was no hell. But there WAS > something all Christians should live in dread of. Many Christians have died for a short period of time and did see heaven. If you visit any Christian book store, you can buy a book about what they seen while in heaven. One man that was not a Christian went to hell and even wrote a book about what he saw while in hell. I believe the name of his book was "I Escaped From Hell". Many atheists will end up in hell. While in hell, they will hear other people say that no Christians ever warned them about hell. None of the people that read this post or my last 5 posts will ever be able to say that no Christian ever warned them about hell. If you or anyone else ends up in hell, you can't blame me for not warning you about hell. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <ri42i31cnals55vemp5nlhe06vrved6dm3@4ax.com>, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:32:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >In article <tpednXamOYnARoPanZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com>, Charles & Mambo > >Duckman <duckman@gfy.slf> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: > > >> > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option > > >> until it's their ass, then all bets are off. Most Christians are hypocrites, > >> after all. > > >I now understand one of the reasons the child and teen suicide rates rose > >for the first time in more than a decade. > > The recent rise in Christianity? No--the rise in the number of atheists now in the world. I live in California and you would be amazed at the number of atheist related bumper stickers that I have seen in recent years. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <rf42i3d6uhkktth4gpor9i1p60m1ba18ne@4ax.com>, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:07:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a > >crisis situation than a Christian. > > Which is why a greater percentage of suicides are theists than > atheists? Many pastors no longer teach the truth about what the Bible states about murder and various other commandments. The head pastor of the largest church in America rarely even discusses the Bible in his sermons. He is more like a psychologist than a preacher. His last sermon was related to self esteem. He has a weekly television show. > > > The reason I believe it is because most > >Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists > >don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to > >end that crisis situation. > > Atheists also don't see crises in a lot of situations in which theists > do. They have many crisis situations such as getting fired from their jobs; flunking out of college; their mates walking out on them or cheating on them; being told by their doctors they have cancer and only 3 or less months to live etc. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <b942i3d34p9f2p58f62d8hqp6per7n1hto@4ax.com>, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your > >> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would > >> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery > >> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? > > >Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. > > The question wasn't about reality (which, like every Christian, you > got wrong), it was about what you want for people. > > >When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing them a > >favor. > > Why do you feel that when you do something to someone that the person > doesn't want you to do, it's a favor? Would you consider it a favor > if someone did something to you that you didn't want him to do? > > >I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his > >doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an > >option? > > >Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most > >Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them > >to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in > >that situation? > > The same as the typical human being would. The reason that I believe that atheists would be more likely than Christians to commit suicide after being told they have cancer or some other terrible disease is because atheists don't believe they will be sent to hell if they murder themselves. On the other hand, many Christians do believe they will be sent to hell if they murder themselves so they would be less likely to commit suicide. jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <10t6v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers > > where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are > > allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. > > No, Jason, there are not. > > There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the anaesthetics > required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. I guess they could move to that state where doctors are allowed to legally kill them. Is the name of that state Oregon? They are trying to pass that same law in California. Believe it or not, I hope they make it legal for doctors to kill patients that are in terrible pain that want to die. Of course, the patients should sign legal forms indicating they want to die. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <dds6v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:58:40 -0700, Jason wrote: > > >> The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the > >> supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things > >> get unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting > >> blanket of death. > > > If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. > > Pascal's Wager. Debunked back in what, 1650? Should really keep up with > your reading, you're about 350 years out of date. > > > Many people believe they are correct. > > Doesn't matter, frankly, if I'm correct or you are, or someone else > entirely. You again miss the point: if there is such a thing as "Heaven", > this is not a reward; it is the most heinous punishment conceivable. If you think heaven is bad--that is not a problem--you will end up in hell. Take my word for it--heaven is far better than hell. If you want to learn what hell is like--read the book entitled, "I Escaped From Hell". I did not read the book but watched the author as he was being interviewed on a Christian television show. He stated that the people in hell were in terrible pain. Jason Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 In article <ffr5u2$cg1$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > Al Klein wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason > > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> [snips] > >> > >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: > >> > >>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers > >>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are > >>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. > >> No, Jason, there are not. > >> > >> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the anaesthetics > >> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. > > > > There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of > > anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the > > pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage. > > I would not call it "mistake". > > Tell you the truth, we do it on purpose. > > If the patient is in so much pain, and has no hope whatsoever. What > should we do? Let him die tomorrow with 24 hours of pain or let him die > painless today? > > Tell you another thing. We live with them. We KNOW we gave hin too much > morphine. And that is what killed him today. And not on his own tomorrow. > > I know the faces. I SAW them. That is no fun. > > We KNOW that it will shorten their lifes.... by a few hours. > > You have any idea how often the death certificate should say "morphine > overdose" rather than some other horrible cause? > > The difference is maybe a day. On the outside. > > Tokay I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine overdose. It should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state. Quote
Guest Kelsey Bjarnason Posted October 25, 2007 Posted October 25, 2007 [snips] On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:49:28 -0700, Jason wrote: >> Atheists also don't see crises in a lot of situations in which theists >> do. > They have many crisis situations such as getting fired from their jobs; > flunking out of college; their mates walking out on them or cheating on > them; Sorry, why would any of those be a "crisis"? Those would be, at most, annoyances. > being told by their doctors they have cancer and only 3 or less > months to live etc. This one might qualify. -- “Blatant self--inflicted punishment... such as having to read your posts.” -- Steve Rose “I believe God had it planned for you to read them all along.” -- Nathan Dutton Quote
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