Guest Jason Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 In article <DipthotDipthot-A067C2.19085325102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > In article > <Jason-2510071534500001@67-150-173-216.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <jgs6v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > [snips] > > > > > > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:53:51 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > > > > >> 1. God hates your self-righeousness and sends you to hell for being so > > > >> smug. > > > >> > > > >> 2. The god that controls the afterlife hates the God you worship and > > > >> sends all of His followers to hell while giving a paradise to those who > > > >> ignore gods and the afterlife. > > > > > > >> You claim to be correct but don't have a shred of evidence to support > > > >> your doctrines. > > > > > > > Even if I am wrong--I have lost nothing. > > > > > > He just pointed out where you lose. Where you get sent to hell for > > > believing the wrong god, or believing the right one by being smug about it. > > > > I'm not worried about any of those issues. > > Why not? I don't buy in to the above mentioned criticisms. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 In article <hbn7v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 16:01:46 -0700, Jason wrote: > > > If you think heaven is bad--that is not a problem--you will end up in > > hell. > > You just don't get it, do you? There is so little difference between > Christian notions of Heaven and Hell it simply does not matter which one > ends up in. > > > Take my word for it--heaven is far better than hell. > > No, I won't take your word for it. I've thought it through, quite > thoroughly. There is no actual benefit to the one over the other. > > > > If you want to > > learn what hell is like--read the book entitled, "I Escaped From Hell". > > I did not read the book but watched the author as he was being > > interviewed on a Christian television show. He stated that the people in > > hell were in terrible pain. > > And as you keep ignoring, Heaven has no option but to also lead to > terrible pain. Terrible pain from which there is no escape. No hope. No > release. Nothing but the same thing, the same horror, day in, day out, > eon upon eon upon eon. > > Why don't you ever deal with that, Jason? Does the notion of facing it > scare the crap out of you? It probably does; you're probably looking > forward to Heaven, so the notion it could be as horrific as your notion of > Hell would scare the piss right out of you. You don't deal with it > because you don't dare allow yourself the slightest doubt. Isn't that > about right? > > Right or not, the fact remains: the Christian notion of Heaven is about > the most heinous horror ever created by mind of man. Nothing any human > agency has ever accomplished holds a candle to the terror of the mere > notion of Heaven. If you hate heaven so much--you don't have to go-- I am looking forward to heaven. I continue to miss my parents and my sister that died last year. I am looking forward to seeing them in heaven. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 In article <4qm7v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > [snips] > > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:49:28 -0700, Jason wrote: > > >> Atheists also don't see crises in a lot of situations in which theists > >> do. > > > They have many crisis situations such as getting fired from their jobs; > > flunking out of college; their mates walking out on them or cheating on > > them; > > Sorry, why would any of those be a "crisis"? Those would be, at most, > annoyances. > > > being told by their doctors they have cancer and only 3 or less > > months to live etc. > > This one might qualify. Would finding your girl friend in bed with your best friend qualify? Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 In article <DipthotDipthot-FEA202.19041425102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > In article > <Jason-2410071607180001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a > > crisis situation than a Christian. > > What you "honestly believe" has no bearing on what is . That's true. However, what you "honestly believe" does have bearing on your own life. If you end up in hell, it will be your own fault. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 In article <v1g2i3t16c5uicvrtdtm5j7asedlgma1q3@4ax.com>, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:49:28 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > >In article <rf42i3d6uhkktth4gpor9i1p60m1ba18ne@4ax.com>, Al Klein > ><rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:07:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > >> > >> >I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a > >> >crisis situation than a Christian. > >> > >> Which is why a greater percentage of suicides are theists than > >> atheists? > > > >Many pastors no longer teach the truth about what the Bible states about > >murder and various other commandments. The head pastor of the largest > >church in America rarely even discusses the Bible in his sermons. He is > >more like a psychologist than a preacher. His last sermon was related to > >self esteem. He has a weekly television show. > > You're playing bagpipes. "Christianity" doesn't have "Jason" in it. > > >> > The reason I believe it is because most > >> >Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists > >> >don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to > >> >end that crisis situation. > > >> Atheists also don't see crises in a lot of situations in which theists > >> do. > > >They have many crisis situations such as getting fired from their jobs; > >flunking out of college; their mates walking out on them or cheating on > >them; being told by their doctors they have cancer and only 3 or less > >months to live etc. > > But not worrying about sin. Not worrying about hell. Not worrying > about godly retribution. > > And not worrying about being worthless little worms, which is what > Christian kids are taught they are. Related to worms--an atheist told me in a recent post that we will all will be eaten by worms when we die and after that--that will be the end of our existence. Telling little children the above information would probably cause some of them to commit suicide after their first crisis. Why bother living if that it all we have to look forward to when we die. Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <61u3v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >>> Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> Ick. How could anyone adopt a belief which only offers two equally >> hateful options? >> >> Thankfully, as an atheist, I don't worry about such things; I fully expect >> to go into the ground and become worm food. None of this everlasting life >> for me. > > If I felt the same way, I would have committed suicide several years ago > when my doctor told me that I had a lung disease. I now understand why so > many young people are committing suicide. They probably believe that since > they will become worm food when they die--why bother dealing with the pain > related to their boy friends or girl friends walking out on them. You have no idea, no concept of what you are talking about. You even lack the faith to continue living if diagnosed with a terminal disease. Your religious faith is therefore a sham. Don't bother praying for me - you are a tainted source. > > > >>> When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing >>> them a favor. >> You're not. >> >>> I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >>> doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >>> option? >> Possibly. >> >>> Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >>> Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause >>> them to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist >>> do in that situation? What would you do in that situation? >> In that situation? Don't know. However, having _been_ on the brink once, >> I'll let you in on a little secret: sometimes things just hurt so much you >> don't want to keep going, it's just not worth it. >> >> The typical Christian notion of Heaven is like that. Since it involves >> eternal life, it means long enough that nothing has any meaning, long >> enough that there's nothing left but the horror of more and more and more >> of the same thing every day, every year, every millennium, with no end, >> ever, no release, no stopping, nothing but horror on top of horror on top >> of horror. >> >> You want to stop. You want to die. You want an end... but there >> isn't one. Nothing will ever reduce the suffering. It is forever . >> >> The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the >> supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things get >> unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting >> blanket of death. > > If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. If I am > correct, it means that you will be spending eternity in hell unless you > become a Christian before you die. Why take a chance on being wrong? Because hell is for those who believe in it. > > Many people believe they are correct. Those sorts of people soon realize > that they are not always correct when they lose lots of money by betting > on their favorite sports team. I had a friend that honestly believed he > could win 100 million dollars in the California lottery. He purchased a > thousand dollars worth of ticket. He did not win. He thought he was > correct but he was wrong. You believe you are correct but you could be > wrong. So can you. > > jason > > Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <ffofhb$3ue$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris > <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >>> In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> [snips] >>>> >>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that your >>>>> spend eternity in heaven >>>> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your >>>> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would >>>> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery >>>> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? >>> Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. When >>> I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing them a >>> favor. >> You are not. Actually, you are doing nothing. Aside from pampering your >> own mind. >> >>> I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >>> doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >>> option? >> For Parkinsons? Why? >> >>> Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >>> Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them >>> to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in >>> that situation? What would you do in that situation? >> What is the question here? Aside from Parkinson. >> >> Let's make the disease something really ugly. The doctor tells you that >> you will only have a year to live and that the last couple of months >> will be pure horror (there is a disease like that. Not nice, trust me). >> >> So, tell me. Given that case. What actually is bad suicide under that >> conditions? And I don't mean right from scratch. I mean when those final >> days/months arrive. There is no hope. No cure. Just pain. Trust me, I >> have seen those people. >> >> And I bet you quite a sum that out of ten people, a few would consider >> suicide. About the same amount would hang on no matter what (and loose). >> >> Independently of religion. >> >> There does come a point of no return in medicine. When there is nothing >> more to be done. What would you do? Let the poor schmuck die in agony? >> Because let him die you must. There is no choice regarding that. Keep >> him alive no matter what? Or give him the pain killers that in a way >> will kill his pain but will kill him a little bit sooner. >> >> I know. "First, do no harm". Medicine is long past that. We DO harm. Ask >> ANY doctor and he will have at least one skeleton in the closet, for >> whatever reason. A doctor without one, as silly as this sounds, is no >> good. Does not take risks, does not ask the patient to take the risk. So >> what does he do? Homeopathy? >> >> Forget Parkinson. It is bad, granted. But it is not the prospect of >> unimaginable pain. >> >> So, as long as you make up such examples, make sure they are worthwhile >> considering. >> >> Besides, it is totally off topic concerning the question posed. You >> evaded the discussion. Bad behaviour. >> Dishonest. >> >> But your like loves to do that. >> >> >> Tokay > > For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers > where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are > allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. > Jason > > Hospice is for those with less than 6 months to live. It is intended to allow people to die as comfortably as possible, whether in pain or not. It is a wonderful practice, and the caregivers who do hospice work are some of the warmest, caring people you could have the pleasure of meeting. Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <dnevh31sd73mhmcr7s6bdgck4364htafpu@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 22:23:38 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2310072223380001@66-53-208-59.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >>> In article <2m4th3pufduaj3b7la3c7sfahggrqpqtk3@4ax.com>, Free Lunch >>> <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, in alt.atheism >>>> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) trying to make Christians look bad wrote in >>>> <Jason-2310071711090001@67-150-124-34.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >>>>> In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >>>>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> [snips] >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:14:57 -0700, Jason wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Not really--I just prayed for your salvation. I would prefer that your >>>>>>> spend eternity in heaven >>>>>> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your >>>>>> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would >>>>>> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery >>>>>> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? >>>>> Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >>>> You don't have any evidence that this is the case. >>>> >>>>> When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing >>> them a >>>>> favor. >>>> When you tell us about it, you are being a self-righteous jerk. If you >>>> must pray for others, Jesus told you to do it silently, not broadcast to >>>> everyone how wonderful of a believer you think you are. Jesus made it >>>> quite clear that he wasn't remotely impressed by people who acted that >>>> way. >>>> >>>>> I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >>>>> doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >>>>> option? >>>> For Parkinson's? Why? >>>>> Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >>>>> Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them >>>>> to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in >>>>> that situation? What would you do in that situation? >>>> Once more, your smug ignorance of anyone who isn't a "Christian" like >>>> you is incredible irritating and insulting to those who are both >>>> Christian and not Christian. You act like the Pharisees that were >>>> condemned in the Gospels (even though the Pharisees of the Gospels are >>>> mocking parodies of the Pharisees found in history). >>> You failed to answer my simple question--Would you consider suicide if >>> your doctor told you that had Parkinson's Disease? >>> >> Don't you recognize an answer when you see it? I answered: "For >> Parkinson's? Why?" >> >> Are you incapable of seeing that this was a negative answer? >> >> While I see no point in wasting the resources of humanity to keep me >> alive when I am irreversibly at the point of death, I cannot think of >> any circumstances under which I would commit suicide. It has nothing to >> do with silly stories about heaven or hell, it has to do with the fact >> that I really enjoy life and want to get the most out of it. If I do >> start considering suicide, it will be evidence to me that I am seriously >> depressed and need medical attention. > > I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a > crisis situation than a Christian. This is just another one of your biased, baseless assertions, until you can prove it with objective statistics. The reason I believe it is because most > Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists > don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to > end that crisis situation. You are such a heartless person! Suicide is most often an outcome of clinical depression. You would send to your hell many innocent suffers of a mental illness that drives them to kill themselves. Educate yourself a bit, and develop some Christian compassion. You do not appear to have any. > Jason > > Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip >> >>> Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> Prove it. > > You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. > > Or not. Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <2aovh3dn15ve9r8t13gokdeoqj0mmidfq1@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:58:40 -0700, in alt.talk.creationism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2410071558410001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >>> In article <61u3v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> [snips] >>>> >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >>>> Ick. How could anyone adopt a belief which only offers two equally >>>> hateful options? >>>> >>>> Thankfully, as an atheist, I don't worry about such things; I fully expect >>>> to go into the ground and become worm food. None of this everlasting life >>>> for me. >>> If I felt the same way, I would have committed suicide several years ago >>> when my doctor told me that I had a lung disease. I now understand why so >>> many young people are committing suicide. They probably believe that since >>> they will become worm food when they die--why bother dealing with the pain >>> related to their boy friends or girl friends walking out on them. >> What a selfish view of the world you have. Do you really think that the >> only reason you are here is to be able to get to Heaven? >> >>>>> When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing >>>>> them a favor. >>>> You're not. >>>> >>>>> I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >>>>> doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >>>>> option? >>>> Possibly. >>>> >>>>> Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >>>>> Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause >>>>> them to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist >>>>> do in that situation? What would you do in that situation? >>>> In that situation? Don't know. However, having _been_ on the brink once, >>>> I'll let you in on a little secret: sometimes things just hurt so much you >>>> don't want to keep going, it's just not worth it. >>>> >>>> The typical Christian notion of Heaven is like that. Since it involves >>>> eternal life, it means long enough that nothing has any meaning, long >>>> enough that there's nothing left but the horror of more and more and more >>>> of the same thing every day, every year, every millennium, with no end, >>>> ever, no release, no stopping, nothing but horror on top of horror on top >>>> of horror. >>>> >>>> You want to stop. You want to die. You want an end... but there >>>> isn't one. Nothing will ever reduce the suffering. It is forever . >>>> >>>> The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the >>>> supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things get >>>> unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting >>>> blanket of death. >>> If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. If I am >>> correct, it means that you will be spending eternity in hell unless you >>> become a Christian before you die. Why take a chance on being wrong? >> Pascal's Wager is defective. There are many ways you could lose because >> you claim to be a Christian. I won't call it losing if there is no >> heaven, hell or soul, even though that is what the evidence says. Let's >> just consider two possible ways you can be wrong and suffer consequences >> for it: >> >> 1. God hates your self-righeousness and sends you to hell for being so >> smug. >> >> 2. The god that controls the afterlife hates the God you worship and >> sends all of His followers to hell while giving a paradise to those who >> ignore gods and the afterlife. >> >>> Many people believe they are correct. Those sorts of people soon realize >>> that they are not always correct when they lose lots of money by betting >>> on their favorite sports team. I had a friend that honestly believed he >>> could win 100 million dollars in the California lottery. He purchased a >>> thousand dollars worth of ticket. He did not win. He thought he was >>> correct but he was wrong. You believe you are correct but you could be >>> wrong. >> You claim to be correct but don't have a shred of evidence to support >> your doctrines. > > Even if I am wrong--I have lost nothing. If you are wrong, you will be > spending eternity in hell. I once had a co-worker that was an atheist. He > bragged about having sex with over 100 different women. If I was an > atheist, I probably also would have had sex with over 100 different women. > Which of us is better off? I do not have any sexual related diseases. He > will have Genital Herpes for the rest of his life. I believe that I am > better off than my former co-worker. > > Yes, since you don't appear to have an STD. No, since you appear to be afflicted with a form of what Ambrose Bierce called "galloping Christianity of the malignant California variety." Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <dp42i3hsmsker0ecuvjohen43bnn490h7a@4ax.com>, Al Klein > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:08:05 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >>> In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>> >>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip >>>> >>>>> Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >>>> Prove it. >>> You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. >> I died. There was no heaven. There was no hell. But there WAS >> something all Christians should live in dread of. > > Many Christians have died for a short period of time and did see heaven. > If you visit any Christian book store, you can buy a book about what they > seen while in heaven. One man that was not a Christian went to hell and > even wrote a book about what he saw while in hell. I believe the name of > his book was "I Escaped From Hell". > > Many atheists will end up in hell. While in hell, they will hear other > people say that no Christians ever warned them about hell. None of the > people that read this post or my last 5 posts will ever be able to say > that no Christian ever warned them about hell. If you or anyone else ends > up in hell, you can't blame me for not warning you about hell. Smug, aren't you? Hell, whatever that is, is for those who believe in it. That's you, Jason. > > Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <rf42i3d6uhkktth4gpor9i1p60m1ba18ne@4ax.com>, Al Klein > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:07:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >>> I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a >>> crisis situation than a Christian. >> Which is why a greater percentage of suicides are theists than >> atheists? > > Many pastors no longer teach the truth about what the Bible states about > murder and various other commandments. The head pastor of the largest > church in America rarely even discusses the Bible in his sermons. He is > more like a psychologist than a preacher. His last sermon was related to > self esteem. He has a weekly television show. > > >>> The reason I believe it is because most >>> Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists >>> don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to >>> end that crisis situation. >> Atheists also don't see crises in a lot of situations in which theists >> do. > > They have many crisis situations such as getting fired from their jobs; > flunking out of college; their mates walking out on them or cheating on > them; being told by their doctors they have cancer and only 3 or less > months to live etc. > > Unlike Christians, who have none of those. Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <b942i3d34p9f2p58f62d8hqp6per7n1hto@4ax.com>, Al Klein > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 17:11:09 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >>> In article <urp1v4-pev.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason >>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Why would you wish such a hateful, evil thing upon anyone ? Has your >>>> religion caused you so much hatred towards your fellow man you would >>>> actually want him to suffer an eternal life, with the endless misery >>>> such would bring? Do you really hate us all so much? >>> Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or heaven. >> The question wasn't about reality (which, like every Christian, you >> got wrong), it was about what you want for people. >> >>> When I pray for the salvation of non-Christians--I feel that I am doing > them a >>> favor. >> Why do you feel that when you do something to someone that the person >> doesn't want you to do, it's a favor? Would you consider it a favor >> if someone did something to you that you didn't want him to do? >> >>> I have a question for you. If a man that was a atheist was told by his >>> doctor that he had Parkinson's Disease, would he consider suicide as an >>> option? >>> Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option since most >>> Christians believe that killing anyone (even themselves) could cause them >>> to go to hell instead of to heaven. What would the typical atheist do in >>> that situation? >> The same as the typical human being would. > > The reason that I believe that atheists would be more likely than > Christians to commit suicide after being told they have cancer or some > other terrible disease is because atheists don't believe they will be sent > to hell if they murder themselves. Do you have statistics regarding the greater likelihood of atheists committing suicide? Until you do, it's just another example of your ignorant wishful thinking. On the other hand, many Christians do > believe they will be sent to hell if they murder themselves so they would > be less likely to commit suicide. Learn about clinical depression, Jason, and develop some Christian compassion. > jason > > Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <10t6v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers >>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are >>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. >> No, Jason, there are not. >> >> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the anaesthetics >> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. > > I guess they could move to that state where doctors are allowed to legally > kill them. Is the name of that state Oregon? They are trying to pass that > same law in California. Believe it or not, I hope they make it legal for > doctors to kill patients that are in terrible pain that want to die. Of > course, the patients should sign legal forms indicating they want to die. > > That would be suicide, Jason. Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <dds6v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason > <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >> [snips] >> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:58:40 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >>>> The whole prospect is horrible beyond description - yet this is the >>>> supposed _reward_. No thank you. At least here on earth, if things >>>> get unbearable, there is always that final friend, the dark, comforting >>>> blanket of death. >> >>> If you are correct--I have lost nothing by believing in God. >> Pascal's Wager. Debunked back in what, 1650? Should really keep up with >> your reading, you're about 350 years out of date. >> >>> Many people believe they are correct. >> Doesn't matter, frankly, if I'm correct or you are, or someone else >> entirely. You again miss the point: if there is such a thing as "Heaven", >> this is not a reward; it is the most heinous punishment conceivable. > > If you think heaven is bad--that is not a problem--you will end up in hell. > > Take my word for it--heaven is far better than hell. Been there? If you want to learn > what hell is like--read the book entitled, "I Escaped From Hell". I did > not read the book but watched the author as he was being interviewed on a > Christian television show. He stated that the people in hell were in > terrible pain. > Jason > > Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <ffr5u2$cg1$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris > <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > >> Al Klein wrote: >>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason >>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> [snips] >>>> >>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers >>>>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are >>>>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. >>>> No, Jason, there are not. >>>> >>>> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the anaesthetics >>>> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. >>> There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of >>> anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the >>> pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage. >> I would not call it "mistake". >> >> Tell you the truth, we do it on purpose. >> >> If the patient is in so much pain, and has no hope whatsoever. What >> should we do? Let him die tomorrow with 24 hours of pain or let him die >> painless today? >> >> Tell you another thing. We live with them. We KNOW we gave hin too much >> morphine. And that is what killed him today. And not on his own tomorrow. >> >> I know the faces. I SAW them. That is no fun. >> >> We KNOW that it will shorten their lifes.... by a few hours. >> >> You have any idea how often the death certificate should say "morphine >> overdose" rather than some other horrible cause? >> >> The difference is maybe a day. On the outside. >> >> Tokay > > I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine overdose. It > should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for > doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state. > > Jason, why do you condone one person killing another? Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <lsf2i3pqabu173gjujd5pmem1oh4gv1cbi@4ax.com>, Al Klein > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:43:44 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >>> In article <ri42i31cnals55vemp5nlhe06vrved6dm3@4ax.com>, Al Klein >>> <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:32:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>> >>>>> In article <tpednXamOYnARoPanZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com>, Charles & Mambo >>>>> Duckman <duckman@gfy.slf> wrote: >>>>>> Jason wrote: >>>>>>> Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option >>>>>> until it's their ass, then all bets are off. Most Christians are >>> hypocrites, >>>>>> after all. >>>>> I now understand one of the reasons the child and teen suicide rates rose >>>>> for the first time in more than a decade. >>>> The recent rise in Christianity? >>> No--the rise in the number of atheists now in the world. >> The rise in the number of atheists is about none at all. That we're >> being more vocal doesn't mean that there are more of us. >> >> But the kids who commit suicide are almost invariably Christian kids, >> who probably kill themselves because they've been told that they're >> worthless sinners, but they're more intelligent than you are, and it >> bothers them. >> >>> I live in California and you would be amazed at the number of atheist > related bumper >>> stickers that I have seen in recent years. >> Again - that doesn't equate to a rise in the number of atheists, just >> a rise in the number who aren't going to lie down for Christianity any >> longer. It's things like Christian boot camps that are causing >> otherwise intelligent kids to kill themselves. > > According to the 2005 issue of the Time Almanac, these were the suicide > rates for 4 different years. > > Age 15 to 19 years old--deaths per 100,000 > > 1950 2.7 > 1960 3.6 > > 2000 8.0 > 2001 7.9 > > The suicide rate for young people was much higher for young people in > 2000-2001 than it was in 1950 and 1960. I believe that one of the reasons > is because so many of the young people in 2000 and 2001 were not > Christians. > > Do you agree or disagree. > > Disagree. I think it would have been higher if more children suffered from the delusion of fundamentalist Christianity. There are many reasons for the increased rates, including children of different ethnic groups having difficulty adapting to our culture (e.g., the Hmong), greater use of anti-depressants (you can look that one up Jason - Google is your enabler), different societal pressures, and a greater willingness to report suicides when before they would have been concealed and misreported. Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <v1g2i3t16c5uicvrtdtm5j7asedlgma1q3@4ax.com>, Al Klein > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:49:28 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >>> In article <rf42i3d6uhkktth4gpor9i1p60m1ba18ne@4ax.com>, Al Klein >>> <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:07:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >>>> >>>>> I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a >>>>> crisis situation than a Christian. >>>> Which is why a greater percentage of suicides are theists than >>>> atheists? >>> Many pastors no longer teach the truth about what the Bible states about >>> murder and various other commandments. The head pastor of the largest >>> church in America rarely even discusses the Bible in his sermons. He is >>> more like a psychologist than a preacher. His last sermon was related to >>> self esteem. He has a weekly television show. >> You're playing bagpipes. "Christianity" doesn't have "Jason" in it. >> >>>>> The reason I believe it is because most >>>>> Christians would fear going to hell if they committed suicide. Atheists >>>>> don't believe in hell or heaven so many of them would commit suicide to >>>>> end that crisis situation. >>>> Atheists also don't see crises in a lot of situations in which theists >>>> do. >>> They have many crisis situations such as getting fired from their jobs; >>> flunking out of college; their mates walking out on them or cheating on >>> them; being told by their doctors they have cancer and only 3 or less >>> months to live etc. >> But not worrying about sin. Not worrying about hell. Not worrying >> about godly retribution. >> >> And not worrying about being worthless little worms, which is what >> Christian kids are taught they are. > > Related to worms--an atheist told me in a recent post that we will all > will be eaten by worms when we die and after that--that will be the end of > our existence. > > Telling little children the above information would probably cause some of > them to commit suicide after their first crisis. What utter nonsense. Plenty of atheist children and children of atheists live normal lives, especially since they are better trained to deal with the world as it is than are fundie kids. Why bother living if that > it all we have to look forward to when we die. > Life is good. Live it while you can. > Quote
Guest thomas p Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:Jason-2510072335570001@66.53.220.126... > In article <bnf2i310mftkdvq44m1gltjd2lcgkt1aq8@4ax.com>, Al Klein > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:41:43 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >In article <dp42i3hsmsker0ecuvjohen43bnn490h7a@4ax.com>, Al Klein >> ><rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: >> > >> >> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:08:05 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >In article <5o98krFlquvaU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >> >> ><witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrotesnip >> >> >> >> >> >> > Not really. People will spend the rest of eternity in hell or >> >> >> > heaven. >> >> >> >> >> >> Prove it. >> >> > >> >> >You will find all of the proof you need on the day that you die. >> >> >> >> I died. There was no heaven. There was no hell. But there WAS >> >> something all Christians should live in dread of. >> > >> >Many Christians have died for a short period of time and did see heaven. >> >> No, many Christians have had near death experiences and thought, when >> they awakened, that what they experienced as their brains shut down >> was 'heaven'. It was anoxia. That's just another gap your god >> doesn't live in. The more science learns, the fewer places there are >> for him to hide in. >> >> >If you visit any Christian book store, you can buy a book about what >> >they >> >seen while in heaven. One man that was not a Christian went to hell and >> >even wrote a book about what he saw while in hell. I believe the name of >> >his book was "I Escaped From Hell". >> >> And Moslems see Moslem heaven. And Buddhists see what they expect >> when they die. Every deluded person sees what he expects to see. >> >> >Many atheists will end up in hell. >> >> Or would, if there were such a place. It's Christians who have to >> worry about what they'll face when they die. > > What will you do if the Christians are right? That means you will be > spending eternity in hell. > > And what if another religion is right? Your question is dishonest. It has been answered thousands of times in alt.atheism alone, but you continue to ignore the answer and continue to ask the rather silly question. Quote
Guest thomas p Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:Jason-2510072308470001@66.53.220.126... > In article <lsf2i3pqabu173gjujd5pmem1oh4gv1cbi@4ax.com>, Al Klein > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:43:44 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >In article <ri42i31cnals55vemp5nlhe06vrved6dm3@4ax.com>, Al Klein >> ><rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: >> > >> >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:32:18 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >> >> >> >In article <tpednXamOYnARoPanZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@comcast.com>, Charles & >> >> >Mambo >> >> >Duckman <duckman@gfy.slf> wrote: >> >> >> Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> >> > Most Christians would NOT consider suicide as a option >> >> >> >> >> until it's their ass, then all bets are off. Most Christians are >> >hypocrites, >> >> >> after all. >> >> >> >> >I now understand one of the reasons the child and teen suicide rates >> >> >rose >> >> >for the first time in more than a decade. >> >> >> >> The recent rise in Christianity? >> > >> >No--the rise in the number of atheists now in the world. >> >> The rise in the number of atheists is about none at all. That we're >> being more vocal doesn't mean that there are more of us. >> >> But the kids who commit suicide are almost invariably Christian kids, >> who probably kill themselves because they've been told that they're >> worthless sinners, but they're more intelligent than you are, and it >> bothers them. >> >> > I live in California and you would be amazed at the number of atheist > related bumper >> >stickers that I have seen in recent years. >> >> Again - that doesn't equate to a rise in the number of atheists, just >> a rise in the number who aren't going to lie down for Christianity any >> longer. It's things like Christian boot camps that are causing >> otherwise intelligent kids to kill themselves. > > According to the 2005 issue of the Time Almanac, these were the suicide > rates for 4 different years. > > Age 15 to 19 years old--deaths per 100,000 > > 1950 2.7 > 1960 3.6 > > 2000 8.0 > 2001 7.9 > > The suicide rate for young people was much higher for young people in > 2000-2001 than it was in 1950 and 1960. I believe that one of the reasons > is because so many of the young people in 2000 and 2001 were not > Christians. > > Do you agree or disagree. > > Are you truly unable to see that the question was answered? That is sad. Quote
Guest The Chief Instigator Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) writes: >In article <4qm7v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason ><kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >> [snips] >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:49:28 -0700, Jason wrote: >> >> Atheists also don't see crises in a lot of situations in which theists >> >> do. >> > They have many crisis situations such as getting fired from their jobs; >> > flunking out of college; their mates walking out on them or cheating on >> > them; >> Sorry, why would any of those be a "crisis"? Those would be, at most, >> annoyances. >> > being told by their doctors they have cancer and only 3 or less >> > months to live etc. >> This one might qualify. >Would finding your girl friend in bed with your best friend qualify? Beats me...I never was in that situation when I was still single. -- Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2007-08 Houston Aeros) AA#2273 LAST GAME: Houston 6, San Antonio 5 (SO) (October 19) NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 27 at San Antonio, 7:05 Quote
Guest The Chief Instigator Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 Jason@nospam.com (Jason) writes: >In article ><DipthotDipthot-FEA202.19041425102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, >655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: >> In article >> <Jason-2410071607180001@67-150-124-72.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > I honestly believe that atheists are more likely to commit suicide in a >> > crisis situation than a Christian. >> What you "honestly believe" has no bearing on what is . >That's true. However, what you "honestly believe" does have bearing on >your own life. If you end up in hell, it will be your own fault. ....and what business is it of yours whether others don't believe as you do or not? Being exposed to morons like you at an early age made it that much easier to discard organized religion, in my case. -- Patrick "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (patrick@io.com) Houston, Texas chiefinstigator.us.tt/aeros.php (TCI's 2007-08 Houston Aeros) AA#2273 LAST GAME: Houston 6, San Antonio 5 (SO) (October 19) NEXT GAME: Saturday, October 27 at San Antonio, 7:05 Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:20:16 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >Good point. My Time Almanac does not have any statistics related to the >number of atheists in America in 1950 compared to 2005. I also could not >find those statistics on the internet. > >Do you believe there is now a higher percentage of atheists in America >than there was in 1950? I do Based on what? The number of bumper stickers you see? Ask almost any Christian and he'll tell you that atheism is still a tiny minority in this country. Unless the particular argument of the moment needs the number to be rising rapidly. -- Al at Webdingers dot com "What has 'theology' ever said that is of the smallest use to anybody? When has 'theology' ever said anything that is demonstrably true and is not obvious? What makes you think that 'theology' is a subject at all?" - Richard Dawkins Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:08:06 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >In article <lsf2i3pqabu173gjujd5pmem1oh4gv1cbi@4ax.com>, Al Klein ><rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:43:44 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> > I live in California and you would be amazed at the number of atheist related bumper >> >stickers that I have seen in recent years. >> Again - that doesn't equate to a rise in the number of atheists, just >> a rise in the number who aren't going to lie down for Christianity any >> longer. It's things like Christian boot camps that are causing >> otherwise intelligent kids to kill themselves. >According to the 2005 issue of the Time Almanac, these were the suicide >rates for 4 different years. > >Age 15 to 19 years old--deaths per 100,000 > >1950 2.7 >1960 3.6 > >2000 8.0 >2001 7.9 > >The suicide rate for young people was much higher for young people in >2000-2001 than it was in 1950 and 1960. I believe that one of the reasons >is because so many of the young people in 2000 and 2001 were not >Christians. >Do you agree or disagree. No, the percentage of Christians has been going UP, so the OBVIOUS cause of the increase in suicide is that MORE of the kids who killed themselves were Christians. -- Al at Webdingers dot com "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H.L.Mencken Quote
Guest Al Klein Posted October 26, 2007 Posted October 26, 2007 On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:35:16 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: >> >Many atheists will end up in hell. >> >> Or would, if there were such a place. It's Christians who have to >> worry about what they'll face when they die. > >What will you do if the Christians are right? Jason, I'll type this slowly, so you can understand it: I HAVE BEEN DEAD, so I KNOW that the Christians are WRONG! > That means you will be spending eternity in hell. If there were such a place, but there isn't. What part of "I know, but you're only guessing" confuses you? The part about it not being what you want it to be? -- Al at Webdingers dot com "To assume the existence of an unperceivable being ... does not facilitate understanding the orderliness we find in the perceivable world." - Letter to an Iowa student who asked, What is God? July, 1953; Einstein Archive 59-085 Quote
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