Guest 655321 Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <Jason-2610071459450001@67-150-120-210.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > Most Christians do NOT fear death Got proof? I don't believe you. I think you're just guessing again. -- 655321 "We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi Quote
Guest 655321 Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <Jason-2710071410240001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > A million years from now--you may be saying over and over and over again: > > I was warned about hell and I failed to do anything about it. > > I was warned about hell and I failed to do anything about it. That's a big "may be," Little One. The fact that this scenario is unlikely in the extreme just slips on past you, though. Sad, that. -- 655321 "We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi Quote
Guest 655321 Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <Jason-2710071435140001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > I know that God is the true God and that Jesus (his son) is my savior. > > I know that various other religions have their own Gods. That was even > true during Old Testament times. That God's name was Baal. Baal was a > false God. The Gods of other religions are false Gods. In other words, > they don't exist. I have never heard about Cthulhu--he is probably one of > many false Gods. Like it or not, Jason, you do not KNOW any of the above. You're just guessing... and then hoping you're right. -- 655321 "We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi Quote
Guest 655321 Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <Jason-2510072341510001@66.53.220.126>, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > I am looking forward to heaven. I continue to miss my parents and my > sister that died last year. I am looking forward to seeing them in heaven. Dorothy, there is no Emerald City. -- 655321 "We are heroes in error" -- Ahmad Chalabi Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <mbhUi.60742$Um6.37127@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, cactus > <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >>> In article <ffr5u2$cg1$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris >>> <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Al Klein wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason >>>>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> [snips] >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers >>>>>>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are >>>>>>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. >>>>>> No, Jason, there are not. >>>>>> >>>>>> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the > anaesthetics >>>>>> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. >>>>> There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of >>>>> anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the >>>>> pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage. >>>> I would not call it "mistake". >>>> >>>> Tell you the truth, we do it on purpose. >>>> >>>> If the patient is in so much pain, and has no hope whatsoever. What >>>> should we do? Let him die tomorrow with 24 hours of pain or let him die >>>> painless today? >>>> >>>> Tell you another thing. We live with them. We KNOW we gave hin too much >>>> morphine. And that is what killed him today. And not on his own tomorrow. >>>> >>>> I know the faces. I SAW them. That is no fun. >>>> >>>> We KNOW that it will shorten their lifes.... by a few hours. >>>> >>>> You have any idea how often the death certificate should say "morphine >>>> overdose" rather than some other horrible cause? >>>> >>>> The difference is maybe a day. On the outside. >>>> >>>> Tokay >>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine overdose. It >>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for >>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state. >>> >>> >> Jason, why do you condone one person killing another? > > I was discussing a doctor killing a patient that was already dying and was > in severe pain. Mercy killing is VERY different than first degree murder. Only in degree. And besides your religion opposes it strenuously. How can you go against your religious teachings? It could send you to your hell. Or do you simply let others do the killing and going to hell while you bask in the dubious glory of being sensitive to the pain of others? > In one state in America, it's legal for doctors to commit mercy killings. > It should be legal in every state. Jesus spent most of his ministry > talking about LOVE. Mercy Killing is a form of LOVE. And yet you do not condone suicide, even when done to relieve pain. You appear to believe that it's OK to kill someone in pain, but not for that person to take their own life. Weird. > Jesus. > > Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <5oegd7Fmnf74U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote >> >> snip >>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine overdose. It >>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for >>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state. >> But that's against your religion, Jason. > > I don't agree. Mercy Killing is based on LOVE. Jesus spent more time > talking about love than any other subject. > > Then why, oh why have so many Christians preached intolerance and hatred of those who believe differently? Why have Christians been killing each other for centuries, not to mention all those of different faiths? Why even to this day do they advocate boycotting businesses that do not discriminate with regard to sexuality? Why do they discriminate against those of other faiths? Some love. Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <4mp4i3d63j3r5dci0m8dfh86qccgiar7ia@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > >> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:51:35 -0700, in alt.atheism >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >> <Jason-2610071451350001@67-150-120-210.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >>> In article <5oegghFlmll8U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>> >>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> >>>> >>>> snip >>>> >>>>> I guess they could move to that state where doctors are allowed to > legally >>>>> kill them. Is the name of that state Oregon? They are trying to pass that >>>>> same law in California. Believe it or not, I hope they make it legal for >>>>> doctors to kill patients that are in terrible pain that want to die. >>>> But that's against your religion. >>> My father had lung cancer and heart disease. He had lots of PAIN and >>> SUFFERING durung the last two months of his life. It would have been much >>> better if a doctor committed mercy killing. Unless you had a relative that >>> died in that sort of condition--I don't expect you or anyone else to agree >>> with me. >>> >> I think the point that people are trying to make to you is that this is >> one place where you are surprisingly undogmatic -- but only because the >> death of your father helped humanize you. When it comes to any other >> human weakness, you are incredibly unforgiving. Why can't you manage to >> bring your understanding of mercy killing to other areas of life -- add >> a little more gray to your otherwise black and white view of the world. >> >> It strikes me that you are understanding of the weaknesses of humans >> only when those weaknesses strike you or those near you. That is sad. > > I have NO compassion for murderers or child molestors. I have no > compassion for dope pushers or dope users. This does not sound very Christian. Aren't you supposed to hate the sin, but not the sinner? Mercy killing is VERY different > than first degree murder. > Depends on your religion. > Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <ffved4$287$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >>> Many people fear death. Most Christians do NOT fear death since they know >>> they have heaven to look forward to when they die. >> They why the prohibition on killing yourself? If there really was this >> heaven, why should getting there sooner be a sin? >> >> I am actully looking >>> forward to seeing my sister and parents when I die. >> And if they wound up being in hell instead of heaven like you think, >> then what? You'll be in heaven and watching them suffering in hell and >> be what? Happy? You can't be sad since it's heaven and everyone's happy >> in heaven. So you'll be happy to be watching them suffer, right? You're >> really sick, you know that? >> >> I don't fear death. If >>> I was an athest--I would truly fear death since I would know that I would >>> be spending eternity in hell. >> Clue-time: atheists can't be fearful of "death since they would know >> that they would be spending eternity in hell." since atheists don't >> believe in hell, either. >> >> Are you really that stupid on top of being that sadistic? > > I could believe that Pluto does NOT exist but would that mean that Pluto > does not exist? Of course not. > > You could believe that heaven and hell does NOT exist but does that mean > that heaven and hell does not exist? > > Yes. There is scientific evidence for Pluto, but not for heaven and hell. Quote
Guest cactus Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <ffvfj2$2ro$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> Free Lunch wrote: >>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:51:35 -0700, in alt.atheism >>> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in >>> <Jason-2610071451350001@67-150-120-210.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >>>> In article <5oegghFlmll8U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >>>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> >>>>> >>>>> snip >>>>> >>>>>> I guess they could move to that state where doctors are allowed to > legally >>>>>> kill them. Is the name of that state Oregon? They are trying to pass that >>>>>> same law in California. Believe it or not, I hope they make it legal for >>>>>> doctors to kill patients that are in terrible pain that want to die. >>>>> But that's against your religion. >>>> My father had lung cancer and heart disease. He had lots of PAIN and >>>> SUFFERING durung the last two months of his life. It would have been much >>>> better if a doctor committed mercy killing. Unless you had a relative that >>>> died in that sort of condition--I don't expect you or anyone else to agree >>>> with me. >>>> >>> I think the point that people are trying to make to you is that this is >>> one place where you are surprisingly undogmatic -- but only because the >>> death of your father helped humanize you. When it comes to any other >>> human weakness, you are incredibly unforgiving. Why can't you manage to >>> bring your understanding of mercy killing to other areas of life -- add >>> a little more gray to your otherwise black and white view of the world. >>> >>> It strikes me that you are understanding of the weaknesses of humans >>> only when those weaknesses strike you or those near you. That is sad. >> Well said. I just find it odd that Jason can condone mercy killing but >> yet still thinks that if the person killed themselves (instead of a >> doctor killing them) they'd be doomed to eternal torment. > > Probably because doctors know much more about a person's medical condition > than the patient. In addition, the patient could be on life support and > may not be able to commit suicide even if they wanted to commit suicide. What if a relative (a spouse, for example) had the same information, but committed a mercy killing. Would you consider that to be murder? > > An example is a migraine headache--People that have a migraine headache > may believe they are dying but they are not dying. Every doctor knows > that. > > Quote
Guest Tokay Pino Gris Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 Jason wrote: > In article <ffvhpj$il6$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris > <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >>> In article <5oefv7Fmlc5cU1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" >>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: >>> >>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote >>>> >>>> snip >>>>> Related to worms--an atheist told me in a recent post that we will all >>>>> will be eaten by worms when we die and after that--that will be the end of >>>>> our existence. >>>>> >>>>> Telling little children the above information would probably cause some of >>>>> them to commit suicide after their first crisis. Why bother living if that >>>>> it all we have to look forward to when we die. >>>> Is life really that meaningless to you unless there's a reward at the end? >>>> That's sad. >>> Many people fear death. Most Christians do NOT fear death since they know >>> they have heaven to look forward to when they die. >> >> Which makes you dangerous. >> >> I am actully looking >>> forward to seeing my sister and parents when I die. I don't fear death. If >>> I was an athest--I would truly fear death since I would know that I would >>> be spending eternity in hell. >> >> If you were an atheist, you would fear death because it would be the >> END. No hell, no heaven. You have ONE life to live. You want to spend it >> worshipping some sky pixie? Your choice. But DON'T bother me with it. >> >> Tokay >> >> (Sorry, I am pissed. And my bullshit-tolerance is at ZERO. And this >> idiot is way past that) > > A million years from now--you may be saying over and over and over again: > > I was warned about hell and I failed to do anything about it. > > I was warned about hell and I failed to do anything about it. > > And you will be sitting there and mumble about Zeus. Or Odin. And why he didn't let you into Valhalla. Pascals Wager is Bullshit. Tokay -- When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, "Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?" Quentin Crisp Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <hne7i390vich35h0h78it89kcpu2n1m6le@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:37:53 -0700, in alt.atheism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2710071437530001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >In article <kv97i357psdqpckft9cckbj2kh6l1kqh3h@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:07:10 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2710071407110001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >> >In article <ffved4$287$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > >> ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Jason wrote: > >> >> > Many people fear death. Most Christians do NOT fear death since they know > >> >> > they have heaven to look forward to when they die. > >> >> > >> >> They why the prohibition on killing yourself? If there really was this > >> >> heaven, why should getting there sooner be a sin? > >> >> > >> >> I am actully looking > >> >> > forward to seeing my sister and parents when I die. > >> >> > >> >> And if they wound up being in hell instead of heaven like you think, > >> >> then what? You'll be in heaven and watching them suffering in hell and > >> >> be what? Happy? You can't be sad since it's heaven and everyone's happy > >> >> in heaven. So you'll be happy to be watching them suffer, right? You're > >> >> really sick, you know that? > >> >> > >> >> I don't fear death. If > >> >> > I was an athest--I would truly fear death since I would know that I would > >> >> > be spending eternity in hell. > >> >> > >> >> Clue-time: atheists can't be fearful of "death since they would know > >> >> that they would be spending eternity in hell." since atheists don't > >> >> believe in hell, either. > >> >> > >> >> Are you really that stupid on top of being that sadistic? > >> > > >> >I could believe that Pluto does NOT exist but would that mean that Pluto > >> >does not exist? Of course not. > >> > >> Scientists can point out Pluto. They have evidence that Pluto exists. > >> > >> >You could believe that heaven and hell does NOT exist but does that mean > >> >that heaven and hell does not exist? > >> > >> Where is your evidence that either heaven or hell exist? > > > >You will find the proof on the day that you die. > > So you assert, but cannot support with any evidence. > > Repeating your untested doctrines will not make them true. > > By the way, have you read Matthew 6 yet? Yes Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <hne7i390vich35h0h78it89kcpu2n1m6le@4ax.com>, Free Lunch <lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:37:53 -0700, in alt.atheism > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > <Jason-2710071437530001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >In article <kv97i357psdqpckft9cckbj2kh6l1kqh3h@4ax.com>, Free Lunch > ><lunch@nofreelunch.us> wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:07:10 -0700, in alt.atheism > >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >> <Jason-2710071407110001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >> >In article <ffved4$287$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > >> ><prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > >> > > >> >> Jason wrote: > >> >> > Many people fear death. Most Christians do NOT fear death since they know > >> >> > they have heaven to look forward to when they die. > >> >> > >> >> They why the prohibition on killing yourself? If there really was this > >> >> heaven, why should getting there sooner be a sin? > >> >> > >> >> I am actully looking > >> >> > forward to seeing my sister and parents when I die. > >> >> > >> >> And if they wound up being in hell instead of heaven like you think, > >> >> then what? You'll be in heaven and watching them suffering in hell and > >> >> be what? Happy? You can't be sad since it's heaven and everyone's happy > >> >> in heaven. So you'll be happy to be watching them suffer, right? You're > >> >> really sick, you know that? > >> >> > >> >> I don't fear death. If > >> >> > I was an athest--I would truly fear death since I would know that I would > >> >> > be spending eternity in hell. > >> >> > >> >> Clue-time: atheists can't be fearful of "death since they would know > >> >> that they would be spending eternity in hell." since atheists don't > >> >> believe in hell, either. > >> >> > >> >> Are you really that stupid on top of being that sadistic? > >> > > >> >I could believe that Pluto does NOT exist but would that mean that Pluto > >> >does not exist? Of course not. > >> > >> Scientists can point out Pluto. They have evidence that Pluto exists. > >> > >> >You could believe that heaven and hell does NOT exist but does that mean > >> >that heaven and hell does not exist? > >> > >> Where is your evidence that either heaven or hell exist? > > > >You will find the proof on the day that you die. > > So you assert, but cannot support with any evidence. > > Repeating your untested doctrines will not make them true. > > By the way, have you read Matthew 6 yet? Yes Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <0IRUi.2758$Vx3.2104@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <ffved4$287$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> Many people fear death. Most Christians do NOT fear death since they know > >>> they have heaven to look forward to when they die. > >> They why the prohibition on killing yourself? If there really was this > >> heaven, why should getting there sooner be a sin? > >> > >> I am actully looking > >>> forward to seeing my sister and parents when I die. > >> And if they wound up being in hell instead of heaven like you think, > >> then what? You'll be in heaven and watching them suffering in hell and > >> be what? Happy? You can't be sad since it's heaven and everyone's happy > >> in heaven. So you'll be happy to be watching them suffer, right? You're > >> really sick, you know that? > >> > >> I don't fear death. If > >>> I was an athest--I would truly fear death since I would know that I would > >>> be spending eternity in hell. > >> Clue-time: atheists can't be fearful of "death since they would know > >> that they would be spending eternity in hell." since atheists don't > >> believe in hell, either. > >> > >> Are you really that stupid on top of being that sadistic? > > > > I could believe that Pluto does NOT exist but would that mean that Pluto > > does not exist? Of course not. > > > > You could believe that heaven and hell does NOT exist but does that mean > > that heaven and hell does not exist? > > > > > Yes. There is scientific evidence for Pluto, but not for heaven and hell. Back in the days of Galileo, the scientists believed they had scientific evidence related to the earth being the center of the universe. They were wrong. Evolutionists believe many things based on speculation and not on scientific evidence. For example, there is NO scientific evidence to prove that there was once a primordial pond. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <0IRUi.2758$Vx3.2104@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <ffved4$287$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> Many people fear death. Most Christians do NOT fear death since they know > >>> they have heaven to look forward to when they die. > >> They why the prohibition on killing yourself? If there really was this > >> heaven, why should getting there sooner be a sin? > >> > >> I am actully looking > >>> forward to seeing my sister and parents when I die. > >> And if they wound up being in hell instead of heaven like you think, > >> then what? You'll be in heaven and watching them suffering in hell and > >> be what? Happy? You can't be sad since it's heaven and everyone's happy > >> in heaven. So you'll be happy to be watching them suffer, right? You're > >> really sick, you know that? > >> > >> I don't fear death. If > >>> I was an athest--I would truly fear death since I would know that I would > >>> be spending eternity in hell. > >> Clue-time: atheists can't be fearful of "death since they would know > >> that they would be spending eternity in hell." since atheists don't > >> believe in hell, either. > >> > >> Are you really that stupid on top of being that sadistic? > > > > I could believe that Pluto does NOT exist but would that mean that Pluto > > does not exist? Of course not. > > > > You could believe that heaven and hell does NOT exist but does that mean > > that heaven and hell does not exist? > > > > > Yes. There is scientific evidence for Pluto, but not for heaven and hell. Back in the days of Galileo, the scientists believed they had scientific evidence related to the earth being the center of the universe. They were wrong. Evolutionists believe many things based on speculation and not on scientific evidence. For example, there is NO scientific evidence to prove that there was once a primordial pond. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:55:43 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2710072155430001@67-150-120-95.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >In article <0IRUi.2758$Vx3.2104@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus ><cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <ffved4$287$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >>> Many people fear death. Most Christians do NOT fear death since they know >> >>> they have heaven to look forward to when they die. >> >> They why the prohibition on killing yourself? If there really was this >> >> heaven, why should getting there sooner be a sin? >> >> >> >> I am actully looking >> >>> forward to seeing my sister and parents when I die. >> >> And if they wound up being in hell instead of heaven like you think, >> >> then what? You'll be in heaven and watching them suffering in hell and >> >> be what? Happy? You can't be sad since it's heaven and everyone's happy >> >> in heaven. So you'll be happy to be watching them suffer, right? You're >> >> really sick, you know that? >> >> >> >> I don't fear death. If >> >>> I was an athest--I would truly fear death since I would know that I would >> >>> be spending eternity in hell. >> >> Clue-time: atheists can't be fearful of "death since they would know >> >> that they would be spending eternity in hell." since atheists don't >> >> believe in hell, either. >> >> >> >> Are you really that stupid on top of being that sadistic? >> > >> > I could believe that Pluto does NOT exist but would that mean that Pluto >> > does not exist? Of course not. >> > >> > You could believe that heaven and hell does NOT exist but does that mean >> > that heaven and hell does not exist? >> > >> > >> Yes. There is scientific evidence for Pluto, but not for heaven and hell. > >Back in the days of Galileo, the scientists believed they had scientific >evidence related to the earth being the center of the universe. No, they did not. >They were wrong. Please name the scientists who thought that Galileo was wrong. >Evolutionists believe many things based on speculation and not on >scientific evidence. Once again, you trot out that lie. It has become tiresome. I cannot imagine any Christian repeating a lie, again and again, after he has been repeatedly corrected. It's almost as if you are a mocking parody of a Christian -- that you want people to disrespect Christians. >For example, there is NO scientific evidence to prove >that there was once a primordial pond. Not really true, but that has nothing to do with evolution. Quote
Guest Free Lunch Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 21:55:43 -0700, in alt.atheism Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in <Jason-2710072155430001@67-150-120-95.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: >In article <0IRUi.2758$Vx3.2104@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus ><cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > >> Jason wrote: >> > In article <ffved4$287$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike >> > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Jason wrote: >> >>> Many people fear death. Most Christians do NOT fear death since they know >> >>> they have heaven to look forward to when they die. >> >> They why the prohibition on killing yourself? If there really was this >> >> heaven, why should getting there sooner be a sin? >> >> >> >> I am actully looking >> >>> forward to seeing my sister and parents when I die. >> >> And if they wound up being in hell instead of heaven like you think, >> >> then what? You'll be in heaven and watching them suffering in hell and >> >> be what? Happy? You can't be sad since it's heaven and everyone's happy >> >> in heaven. So you'll be happy to be watching them suffer, right? You're >> >> really sick, you know that? >> >> >> >> I don't fear death. If >> >>> I was an athest--I would truly fear death since I would know that I would >> >>> be spending eternity in hell. >> >> Clue-time: atheists can't be fearful of "death since they would know >> >> that they would be spending eternity in hell." since atheists don't >> >> believe in hell, either. >> >> >> >> Are you really that stupid on top of being that sadistic? >> > >> > I could believe that Pluto does NOT exist but would that mean that Pluto >> > does not exist? Of course not. >> > >> > You could believe that heaven and hell does NOT exist but does that mean >> > that heaven and hell does not exist? >> > >> > >> Yes. There is scientific evidence for Pluto, but not for heaven and hell. > >Back in the days of Galileo, the scientists believed they had scientific >evidence related to the earth being the center of the universe. No, they did not. >They were wrong. Please name the scientists who thought that Galileo was wrong. >Evolutionists believe many things based on speculation and not on >scientific evidence. Once again, you trot out that lie. It has become tiresome. I cannot imagine any Christian repeating a lie, again and again, after he has been repeatedly corrected. It's almost as if you are a mocking parody of a Christian -- that you want people to disrespect Christians. >For example, there is NO scientific evidence to prove >that there was once a primordial pond. Not really true, but that has nothing to do with evolution. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <4723E765.3050403@nonespam.com>, cactus <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <5oegd7Fmnf74U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote > >> > >> snip > >>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine overdose. It > >>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for > >>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state. > >> But that's against your religion, Jason. > > > > I don't agree. Mercy Killing is based on LOVE. Jesus spent more time > > talking about love than any other subject. > > > > > Then why, oh why have so many Christians preached intolerance and hatred > of those who believe differently? Why have Christians been killing each > other for centuries, not to mention all those of different faiths? Why > even to this day do they advocate boycotting businesses that do not > discriminate with regard to sexuality? Why do they discriminate against > those of other faiths? > > Some love. Some Christians define LOVE very differently than other Christians. I was once accused of the LACK of Love when I indicated that I once took part in a pro-life demonstration. The poster indicated that I did not have any love and compassion for the women that were seeking abortions. The truth is that I loved those women that were seeking abortions even if they believed that I did not love them. The reason that I took part in that demonstation was because I also loved their unborn babies. Christians are allowed to shop or not shop at various stores. If I lived in Ireland, I would not take part in any war. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <4723E765.3050403@nonespam.com>, cactus <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <5oegd7Fmnf74U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > > <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > > > >> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote > >> > >> snip > >>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine overdose. It > >>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for > >>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state. > >> But that's against your religion, Jason. > > > > I don't agree. Mercy Killing is based on LOVE. Jesus spent more time > > talking about love than any other subject. > > > > > Then why, oh why have so many Christians preached intolerance and hatred > of those who believe differently? Why have Christians been killing each > other for centuries, not to mention all those of different faiths? Why > even to this day do they advocate boycotting businesses that do not > discriminate with regard to sexuality? Why do they discriminate against > those of other faiths? > > Some love. Some Christians define LOVE very differently than other Christians. I was once accused of the LACK of Love when I indicated that I once took part in a pro-life demonstration. The poster indicated that I did not have any love and compassion for the women that were seeking abortions. The truth is that I loved those women that were seeking abortions even if they believed that I did not love them. The reason that I took part in that demonstation was because I also loved their unborn babies. Christians are allowed to shop or not shop at various stores. If I lived in Ireland, I would not take part in any war. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <gHRUi.2756$Vx3.2291@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <mbhUi.60742$Um6.37127@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, cactus > > <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> In article <ffr5u2$cg1$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris > >>> <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Al Klein wrote: > >>>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason > >>>>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> [snips] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers > >>>>>>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are > >>>>>>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. > >>>>>> No, Jason, there are not. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the > > anaesthetics > >>>>>> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. > >>>>> There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of > >>>>> anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the > >>>>> pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage. > >>>> I would not call it "mistake". > >>>> > >>>> Tell you the truth, we do it on purpose. > >>>> > >>>> If the patient is in so much pain, and has no hope whatsoever. What > >>>> should we do? Let him die tomorrow with 24 hours of pain or let him die > >>>> painless today? > >>>> > >>>> Tell you another thing. We live with them. We KNOW we gave hin too much > >>>> morphine. And that is what killed him today. And not on his own tomorrow. > >>>> > >>>> I know the faces. I SAW them. That is no fun. > >>>> > >>>> We KNOW that it will shorten their lifes.... by a few hours. > >>>> > >>>> You have any idea how often the death certificate should say "morphine > >>>> overdose" rather than some other horrible cause? > >>>> > >>>> The difference is maybe a day. On the outside. > >>>> > >>>> Tokay > >>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine overdose. It > >>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for > >>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state. > >>> > >>> > >> Jason, why do you condone one person killing another? > > > > I was discussing a doctor killing a patient that was already dying and was > > in severe pain. Mercy killing is VERY different than first degree murder. > > Only in degree. And besides your religion opposes it strenuously. How > can you go against your religious teachings? It could send you to your > hell. Or do you simply let others do the killing and going to hell > while you bask in the dubious glory of being sensitive to the pain of > others? > > > In one state in America, it's legal for doctors to commit mercy killings. > > It should be legal in every state. Jesus spent most of his ministry > > talking about LOVE. Mercy Killing is a form of LOVE. > > And yet you do not condone suicide, even when done to relieve pain. You > appear to believe that it's OK to kill someone in pain, but not for that > person to take their own life. Weird. > > > > Jesus. > > > > Not really, if a person was told by their doctor that they only had two months to live--I would not have any negative things to say to that person if that person told me that he planned to commit suicide since he was had terrible pain and agony. However, if I was in that same situation, I would not kill myself. Do you see the difference? Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <gHRUi.2756$Vx3.2291@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <mbhUi.60742$Um6.37127@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, cactus > > <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > > > >> Jason wrote: > >>> In article <ffr5u2$cg1$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris > >>> <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Al Klein wrote: > >>>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason > >>>>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> [snips] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers > >>>>>>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are > >>>>>>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain. > >>>>>> No, Jason, there are not. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the > > anaesthetics > >>>>>> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though. > >>>>> There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of > >>>>> anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the > >>>>> pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage. > >>>> I would not call it "mistake". > >>>> > >>>> Tell you the truth, we do it on purpose. > >>>> > >>>> If the patient is in so much pain, and has no hope whatsoever. What > >>>> should we do? Let him die tomorrow with 24 hours of pain or let him die > >>>> painless today? > >>>> > >>>> Tell you another thing. We live with them. We KNOW we gave hin too much > >>>> morphine. And that is what killed him today. And not on his own tomorrow. > >>>> > >>>> I know the faces. I SAW them. That is no fun. > >>>> > >>>> We KNOW that it will shorten their lifes.... by a few hours. > >>>> > >>>> You have any idea how often the death certificate should say "morphine > >>>> overdose" rather than some other horrible cause? > >>>> > >>>> The difference is maybe a day. On the outside. > >>>> > >>>> Tokay > >>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine overdose. It > >>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for > >>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state. > >>> > >>> > >> Jason, why do you condone one person killing another? > > > > I was discussing a doctor killing a patient that was already dying and was > > in severe pain. Mercy killing is VERY different than first degree murder. > > Only in degree. And besides your religion opposes it strenuously. How > can you go against your religious teachings? It could send you to your > hell. Or do you simply let others do the killing and going to hell > while you bask in the dubious glory of being sensitive to the pain of > others? > > > In one state in America, it's legal for doctors to commit mercy killings. > > It should be legal in every state. Jesus spent most of his ministry > > talking about LOVE. Mercy Killing is a form of LOVE. > > And yet you do not condone suicide, even when done to relieve pain. You > appear to believe that it's OK to kill someone in pain, but not for that > person to take their own life. Weird. > > > > Jesus. > > > > Not really, if a person was told by their doctor that they only had two months to live--I would not have any negative things to say to that person if that person told me that he planned to commit suicide since he was had terrible pain and agony. However, if I was in that same situation, I would not kill myself. Do you see the difference? Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <7IRUi.2759$Vx3.1353@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <ffvfj2$2ro$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Free Lunch wrote: > >>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:51:35 -0700, in alt.atheism > >>> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>> <Jason-2610071451350001@67-150-120-210.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >>>> In article <5oegghFlmll8U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >>>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> > >>>>> > >>>>> snip > >>>>> > >>>>>> I guess they could move to that state where doctors are allowed to > > legally > >>>>>> kill them. Is the name of that state Oregon? They are trying to pass that > >>>>>> same law in California. Believe it or not, I hope they make it legal for > >>>>>> doctors to kill patients that are in terrible pain that want to die. > >>>>> But that's against your religion. > >>>> My father had lung cancer and heart disease. He had lots of PAIN and > >>>> SUFFERING durung the last two months of his life. It would have been much > >>>> better if a doctor committed mercy killing. Unless you had a relative that > >>>> died in that sort of condition--I don't expect you or anyone else to agree > >>>> with me. > >>>> > >>> I think the point that people are trying to make to you is that this is > >>> one place where you are surprisingly undogmatic -- but only because the > >>> death of your father helped humanize you. When it comes to any other > >>> human weakness, you are incredibly unforgiving. Why can't you manage to > >>> bring your understanding of mercy killing to other areas of life -- add > >>> a little more gray to your otherwise black and white view of the world. > >>> > >>> It strikes me that you are understanding of the weaknesses of humans > >>> only when those weaknesses strike you or those near you. That is sad. > >> Well said. I just find it odd that Jason can condone mercy killing but > >> yet still thinks that if the person killed themselves (instead of a > >> doctor killing them) they'd be doomed to eternal torment. > > > > Probably because doctors know much more about a person's medical condition > > than the patient. In addition, the patient could be on life support and > > may not be able to commit suicide even if they wanted to commit suicide. > > What if a relative (a spouse, for example) had the same information, but > committed a mercy killing. Would you consider that to be murder? Good question: Yes, it would be murder--I would forgive that person. I would forgive any doctor that told me that he had performed mercy killings. As you know, there are some types of murder that are legal--example: justifiable homicide. I consider mercy killing to be very much like justifiable homicide. > > > > > An example is a migraine headache--People that have a migraine headache > > may believe they are dying but they are not dying. Every doctor knows > > that. > > > > Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <7IRUi.2759$Vx3.1353@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote: > Jason wrote: > > In article <ffvfj2$2ro$3@news04.infoave.net>, Mike > > <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote: > > > >> Free Lunch wrote: > >>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:51:35 -0700, in alt.atheism > >>> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in > >>> <Jason-2610071451350001@67-150-120-210.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>: > >>>> In article <5oegghFlmll8U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff" > >>>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> > >>>>> > >>>>> snip > >>>>> > >>>>>> I guess they could move to that state where doctors are allowed to > > legally > >>>>>> kill them. Is the name of that state Oregon? They are trying to pass that > >>>>>> same law in California. Believe it or not, I hope they make it legal for > >>>>>> doctors to kill patients that are in terrible pain that want to die. > >>>>> But that's against your religion. > >>>> My father had lung cancer and heart disease. He had lots of PAIN and > >>>> SUFFERING durung the last two months of his life. It would have been much > >>>> better if a doctor committed mercy killing. Unless you had a relative that > >>>> died in that sort of condition--I don't expect you or anyone else to agree > >>>> with me. > >>>> > >>> I think the point that people are trying to make to you is that this is > >>> one place where you are surprisingly undogmatic -- but only because the > >>> death of your father helped humanize you. When it comes to any other > >>> human weakness, you are incredibly unforgiving. Why can't you manage to > >>> bring your understanding of mercy killing to other areas of life -- add > >>> a little more gray to your otherwise black and white view of the world. > >>> > >>> It strikes me that you are understanding of the weaknesses of humans > >>> only when those weaknesses strike you or those near you. That is sad. > >> Well said. I just find it odd that Jason can condone mercy killing but > >> yet still thinks that if the person killed themselves (instead of a > >> doctor killing them) they'd be doomed to eternal torment. > > > > Probably because doctors know much more about a person's medical condition > > than the patient. In addition, the patient could be on life support and > > may not be able to commit suicide even if they wanted to commit suicide. > > What if a relative (a spouse, for example) had the same information, but > committed a mercy killing. Would you consider that to be murder? Good question: Yes, it would be murder--I would forgive that person. I would forgive any doctor that told me that he had performed mercy killings. As you know, there are some types of murder that are legal--example: justifiable homicide. I consider mercy killing to be very much like justifiable homicide. > > > > > An example is a migraine headache--People that have a migraine headache > > may believe they are dying but they are not dying. Every doctor knows > > that. > > > > Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <DipthotDipthot-366C26.18125927102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > In article <Jason-2610071722190001@67-150-121-1.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <hBuUi.60792$Um6.3614@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 > > <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > Jason wrote: > > > > In article <ofo3i35thlg3ch75hq6ut7hdos2jdqv75s@4ax.com>, Al Klein > > > > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:20:16 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Good point. My Time Almanac does not have any statistics related to the > > > >>> number of atheists in America in 1950 compared to 2005. I also could not > > > >>> find those statistics on the internet. > > > >>> > > > >>> Do you believe there is now a higher percentage of atheists in America > > > >>> than there was in 1950? I do > > > >> Based on what? The number of bumper stickers you see? > > > >> > > > >> Ask almost any Christian and he'll tell you that atheism is still a > > > >> tiny minority in this country. > > > > > > > > I hope those Christians are correct. I doubt if those Christians that > > > > believe that live in California. We went to a high school football game > > > > last week and saw about a dozen teenagers smoking marijuana on school > > > > property. When I was in high school in the the 1960's--none of us even > > > > smoked marijuana. We would have gotten kicked out school if any teacher > > > > even seen us drinking a beer on school property. > > > > > > Are you saying Christians don't drink beer or smoke pot? > > > > No > > Actually, you are. Re-read that paragraph. You are saying that, if > someone sees 'x' number of pot-smoking teenagers, he or she can > "conclude" that there is a quantity of 'y' atheists. I don't honestly know whether the dope smokers were Christians or atheists. I would guess that some were Christians and some were non-Christians. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <DipthotDipthot-366C26.18125927102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > In article <Jason-2610071722190001@67-150-121-1.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > In article <hBuUi.60792$Um6.3614@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 > > <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > > > > > Jason wrote: > > > > In article <ofo3i35thlg3ch75hq6ut7hdos2jdqv75s@4ax.com>, Al Klein > > > > <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote: > > > > > > > >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 23:20:16 -0700, Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Good point. My Time Almanac does not have any statistics related to the > > > >>> number of atheists in America in 1950 compared to 2005. I also could not > > > >>> find those statistics on the internet. > > > >>> > > > >>> Do you believe there is now a higher percentage of atheists in America > > > >>> than there was in 1950? I do > > > >> Based on what? The number of bumper stickers you see? > > > >> > > > >> Ask almost any Christian and he'll tell you that atheism is still a > > > >> tiny minority in this country. > > > > > > > > I hope those Christians are correct. I doubt if those Christians that > > > > believe that live in California. We went to a high school football game > > > > last week and saw about a dozen teenagers smoking marijuana on school > > > > property. When I was in high school in the the 1960's--none of us even > > > > smoked marijuana. We would have gotten kicked out school if any teacher > > > > even seen us drinking a beer on school property. > > > > > > Are you saying Christians don't drink beer or smoke pot? > > > > No > > Actually, you are. Re-read that paragraph. You are saying that, if > someone sees 'x' number of pot-smoking teenagers, he or she can > "conclude" that there is a quantity of 'y' atheists. I don't honestly know whether the dope smokers were Christians or atheists. I would guess that some were Christians and some were non-Christians. Quote
Guest Jason Posted October 28, 2007 Posted October 28, 2007 In article <DipthotDipthot-FF0F04.18254727102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>, 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote: > In article > <Jason-2710071435140001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>, > Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote: > > > I know that God is the true God and that Jesus (his son) is my savior. > > > > I know that various other religions have their own Gods. That was even > > true during Old Testament times. That God's name was Baal. Baal was a > > false God. The Gods of other religions are false Gods. In other words, > > they don't exist. I have never heard about Cthulhu--he is probably one of > > many false Gods. > > Like it or not, Jason, you do not KNOW any of the above. > > You're just guessing... and then hoping you're right. I would say that I believe or have faith that the information in the Bible is true. Quote
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