Evolution is Just Junk Science

October 28, 2007

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 15:56:48 -0700, Jason wrote:

> In article <10t6v4-bu1.ln1@spanky.localhost.net>, Kelsey Bjarnason

> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

>

>> [snips]

>>

>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote:

>>

>> > For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice centers

>> > where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and they are

>> > allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain.

>>

>> No, Jason, there are not.

>>

>> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the anaesthetics

>> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though.

>

> I guess they could move to that state where doctors are allowed to legally

> kill them.

Right, you're so far gone you can't even have your suffering reduced with

the best available drugs, but hey, get up and go for a jaunt down to that

other state.

Good goat, Jason, do you ever stop to think before you post?

October 28, 2007

In article <fg264g$636$5@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

<prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > Not really, if a person was told by their doctor that they only had two

> > months to live--I would not have any negative things to say to that person

> > if that person told me that he planned to commit suicide since he was had

> > terrible pain and agony.

> >

> > However, if I was in that same situation, I would not kill myself.

>

> Why not? Wouldn't it get you to heaven that much faster?

>

> > Do you see the difference?

>

> Yes, we see the difference. The problem is that the difference points

> out how stupidly illogical you are.

Each Christian has to make judgement calls related to their actions on a

regular basis. I am not responsible for making judgement calls for other

Christians. I have neighbors that are jehovah's witnesses. Their judgement

calls would be different than my judgement calls. For example, as far as

they are concerned--getting a transfusion (blood) is sinful to them. I

don't consider transfusions of blood to be sinful.

October 28, 2007

In article <fg264g$636$5@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

<prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > Not really, if a person was told by their doctor that they only had two

> > months to live--I would not have any negative things to say to that person

> > if that person told me that he planned to commit suicide since he was had

> > terrible pain and agony.

> >

> > However, if I was in that same situation, I would not kill myself.

>

> Why not? Wouldn't it get you to heaven that much faster?

>

> > Do you see the difference?

>

> Yes, we see the difference. The problem is that the difference points

> out how stupidly illogical you are.

Each Christian has to make judgement calls related to their actions on a

regular basis. I am not responsible for making judgement calls for other

Christians. I have neighbors that are jehovah's witnesses. Their judgement

calls would be different than my judgement calls. For example, as far as

they are concerned--getting a transfusion (blood) is sinful to them. I

don't consider transfusions of blood to be sinful.

October 28, 2007

[snips]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:15:40 -0700, Jason wrote:

>> Well said. I just find it odd that Jason can condone mercy killing but

>> yet still thinks that if the person killed themselves (instead of a

>> doctor killing them) they'd be doomed to eternal torment.

>

> Probably because doctors know much more about a person's medical condition

> than the patient.

Right. As my cancer has progressed over the last several years, to the

point where it is now consuming significant parts of my vitals and causing

me endless, uncontrollable agony, somehow, during all of this, I've

managed to remain completely unaware of the details of my condition - in

particular how it is untreatable and is going to kill me.

Exactly what universe do you live in that a person in such a situation

would be able to be both aware enough to contemplate suicide, yet

completely unable to learn anything about what's actually wrong with them?

> An example is a migraine headache--People that have a migraine headache

> may believe they are dying but they are not dying. Every doctor knows

> that.

What an asinine statement. Here we are discussing terminal illnesses with

uncontrollable suffering, and you bring up a patient who a) isn't

terminal, b) presumably hasn't consulted a doctor to find out if they're

terminal or not, and c) actually can mitigate the pain, through a variety

of means.

You really have absolutely no comprehension of, let alone compassion for,

anyone in the universe, do you?

--

“God Bless America.” -- James Staal

“America needs some illusory diety’s blessing like a rhino needs

roller skates.” -- Marty Leipzig

October 28, 2007

[snips]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:15:40 -0700, Jason wrote:

>> Well said. I just find it odd that Jason can condone mercy killing but

>> yet still thinks that if the person killed themselves (instead of a

>> doctor killing them) they'd be doomed to eternal torment.

>

> Probably because doctors know much more about a person's medical condition

> than the patient.

Right. As my cancer has progressed over the last several years, to the

point where it is now consuming significant parts of my vitals and causing

me endless, uncontrollable agony, somehow, during all of this, I've

managed to remain completely unaware of the details of my condition - in

particular how it is untreatable and is going to kill me.

Exactly what universe do you live in that a person in such a situation

would be able to be both aware enough to contemplate suicide, yet

completely unable to learn anything about what's actually wrong with them?

> An example is a migraine headache--People that have a migraine headache

> may believe they are dying but they are not dying. Every doctor knows

> that.

What an asinine statement. Here we are discussing terminal illnesses with

uncontrollable suffering, and you bring up a patient who a) isn't

terminal, b) presumably hasn't consulted a doctor to find out if they're

terminal or not, and c) actually can mitigate the pain, through a variety

of means.

You really have absolutely no comprehension of, let alone compassion for,

anyone in the universe, do you?

--

“God Bless America.” -- James Staal

“America needs some illusory diety’s blessing like a rhino needs

roller skates.” -- Marty Leipzig

October 28, 2007

In article <fg25dn$636$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

<prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > In article

> > <DipthotDipthot-FF0F04.18254727102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,

> > 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:

> >

> >> In article

> >> <Jason-2710071435140001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> >>

> >>> I know that God is the true God and that Jesus (his son) is my savior.

> >>>

> >>> I know that various other religions have their own Gods. That was even

> >>> true during Old Testament times. That God's name was Baal. Baal was a

> >>> false God. The Gods of other religions are false Gods. In other words,

> >>> they don't exist. I have never heard about Cthulhu--he is probably one of

> >>> many false Gods.

> >> Like it or not, Jason, you do not KNOW any of the above.

> >>

> >> You're just guessing... and then hoping you're right.

> >

> > I would say that I believe or have faith that the information in the Bible

> > is true.

>

> And if your belief or faith is wrong? Then what? Cthuhlu eats your soul,

> that's what.

I am not concerned about Cthuhlu, Baal or the Moon God.

October 28, 2007

In article <fg25dn$636$2@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

<prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > In article

> > <DipthotDipthot-FF0F04.18254727102007@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,

> > 655321 <DipthotDipthot@Yahoo.Yahoo.Com.Com> wrote:

> >

> >> In article

> >> <Jason-2710071435140001@66-53-215-173.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

> >> Jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> >>

> >>> I know that God is the true God and that Jesus (his son) is my savior.

> >>>

> >>> I know that various other religions have their own Gods. That was even

> >>> true during Old Testament times. That God's name was Baal. Baal was a

> >>> false God. The Gods of other religions are false Gods. In other words,

> >>> they don't exist. I have never heard about Cthulhu--he is probably one of

> >>> many false Gods.

> >> Like it or not, Jason, you do not KNOW any of the above.

> >>

> >> You're just guessing... and then hoping you're right.

> >

> > I would say that I believe or have faith that the information in the Bible

> > is true.

>

> And if your belief or faith is wrong? Then what? Cthuhlu eats your soul,

> that's what.

I am not concerned about Cthuhlu, Baal or the Moon God.

October 28, 2007

[snips]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:15:00 -0700, Jason wrote:

>> What if a relative (a spouse, for example) had the same information, but

>> committed a mercy killing. Would you consider that to be murder?

>

> Good question: Yes, it would be murder--I would forgive that person.

Oh, wow, Jason would forgive them. Yes, folks, you heard it, the final

and ultimate arbiter of what we, as a species, are and are not allowed to

do has spoken. Ya know, Jason, I'd go get those delusions of godhood

checked.

Meanwhile, on another note, let's quote Exodus, shall we?

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

....

13 Thou shalt not kill.

Hmm. So according to God, it's not okay to kill, but according to Jason

it is.

I'm not a believer, but if I were, somehow I think I'd take God's word

over Jason's. After all, as Jason is fond of reminding us, Hell awaits

those who forsake God's laws.

--

The Cosmic Star Goat told us you would not provide evidence.

-- Dan Ceppa

October 28, 2007

[snips]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:15:00 -0700, Jason wrote:

>> What if a relative (a spouse, for example) had the same information, but

>> committed a mercy killing. Would you consider that to be murder?

>

> Good question: Yes, it would be murder--I would forgive that person.

Oh, wow, Jason would forgive them. Yes, folks, you heard it, the final

and ultimate arbiter of what we, as a species, are and are not allowed to

do has spoken. Ya know, Jason, I'd go get those delusions of godhood

checked.

Meanwhile, on another note, let's quote Exodus, shall we?

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

....

13 Thou shalt not kill.

Hmm. So according to God, it's not okay to kill, but according to Jason

it is.

I'm not a believer, but if I were, somehow I think I'd take God's word

over Jason's. After all, as Jason is fond of reminding us, Hell awaits

those who forsake God's laws.

--

The Cosmic Star Goat told us you would not provide evidence.

-- Dan Ceppa

October 28, 2007

In article <JpWUi.2412$%Z2.1074@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus

<cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > In article <4723E765.3050403@nonespam.com>, cactus

<cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

> >

> >> Jason wrote:

> >>> In article <5oegd7Fmnf74U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff"

> >>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote

> >>>>

> >>>> snip

> >>>>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine

overdose. It

> >>>>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for

> >>>>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state.

> >>>> But that's against your religion, Jason.

> >>> I don't agree. Mercy Killing is based on LOVE. Jesus spent more time

> >>> talking about love than any other subject.

> >>>

> >> Then why, oh why have so many Christians preached intolerance and hatred

> >> of those who believe differently? Why have Christians been killing each

> >> other for centuries, not to mention all those of different faiths? Why

> >> even to this day do they advocate boycotting businesses that do not

> >> discriminate with regard to sexuality? Why do they discriminate against

> >> those of other faiths?

> >>

> >> Some love.

> >

> > Some Christians define LOVE very differently than other Christians.

> >

> > I was once accused of the LACK of Love when I indicated that I once took

> > part in a pro-life demonstration. The poster indicated that I did not have

> > any love and compassion for the women that were seeking abortions. The

> > truth is that I loved those women that were seeking abortions even if they

> > believed that I did not love them. The reason that I took part in that

> > demonstation was because I also loved their unborn babies.

>

> You love in the abstract. You prefer to love something that is not yet

> manifest and for which you have no responsibility. You take the easy

> route over supporting women in a very difficult choice. That's not

> love, it's posturing to support a theological position.

>

> >

> > Christians are allowed to shop or not shop at various stores.

>

> But their preachers tell them not to do business with companies that

> employ homosexuals.

Preachers can say almost anything they want to say. They have freedom of

speech. There are probably atheists that don't go into stores that have a

fish sign displayed on the window of the store or in their ads in the

yellow pages. I am more likely to shop at those sorts of stores. The

yellow pages have ads and in some cases there are fish symbols displayed

in some of the ads. Christians like myself are more likely to call those

businesses and visit those stores.

Jason

>

> >

> > If I lived in Ireland, I would not take part in any war.

>

> What does Ireland have to do with anything in this discussion?

The Protestants and Catholics in Ireland have been at war with each other

for hundreds of years.

October 28, 2007

In article <JpWUi.2412$%Z2.1074@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus

<cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

> Jason wrote:

> > In article <4723E765.3050403@nonespam.com>, cactus

<cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

> >

> >> Jason wrote:

> >>> In article <5oegd7Fmnf74U1@mid.individual.net>, "Robibnikoff"

> >>> <witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:

> >>>

> >>>> "Jason" <Jason@nospam.com> wrote

> >>>>

> >>>> snip

> >>>>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine

overdose. It

> >>>>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for

> >>>>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state.

> >>>> But that's against your religion, Jason.

> >>> I don't agree. Mercy Killing is based on LOVE. Jesus spent more time

> >>> talking about love than any other subject.

> >>>

> >> Then why, oh why have so many Christians preached intolerance and hatred

> >> of those who believe differently? Why have Christians been killing each

> >> other for centuries, not to mention all those of different faiths? Why

> >> even to this day do they advocate boycotting businesses that do not

> >> discriminate with regard to sexuality? Why do they discriminate against

> >> those of other faiths?

> >>

> >> Some love.

> >

> > Some Christians define LOVE very differently than other Christians.

> >

> > I was once accused of the LACK of Love when I indicated that I once took

> > part in a pro-life demonstration. The poster indicated that I did not have

> > any love and compassion for the women that were seeking abortions. The

> > truth is that I loved those women that were seeking abortions even if they

> > believed that I did not love them. The reason that I took part in that

> > demonstation was because I also loved their unborn babies.

>

> You love in the abstract. You prefer to love something that is not yet

> manifest and for which you have no responsibility. You take the easy

> route over supporting women in a very difficult choice. That's not

> love, it's posturing to support a theological position.

>

> >

> > Christians are allowed to shop or not shop at various stores.

>

> But their preachers tell them not to do business with companies that

> employ homosexuals.

Preachers can say almost anything they want to say. They have freedom of

speech. There are probably atheists that don't go into stores that have a

fish sign displayed on the window of the store or in their ads in the

yellow pages. I am more likely to shop at those sorts of stores. The

yellow pages have ads and in some cases there are fish symbols displayed

in some of the ads. Christians like myself are more likely to call those

businesses and visit those stores.

Jason

>

> >

> > If I lived in Ireland, I would not take part in any war.

>

> What does Ireland have to do with anything in this discussion?

The Protestants and Catholics in Ireland have been at war with each other

for hundreds of years.

October 28, 2007

Jason wrote:

> In article <4rWUi.2413$%Z2.1368@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus

> <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

>

>> Jason wrote:

>>> In article <gHRUi.2756$Vx3.2291@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus

>>> <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Jason wrote:

>>>>> In article <mbhUi.60742$Um6.37127@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, cactus

>>>>> <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Jason wrote:

>>>>>>> In article <ffr5u2$cg1$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris

>>>>>>> <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Al Klein wrote:

>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason

>>>>>>>>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> [snips]

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice

> centers

>>>>>>>>>>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and

>>> they are

>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain.

>>>>>>>>>> No, Jason, there are not.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the

>>>>> anaesthetics

>>>>>>>>>> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though.

>>>>>>>>> There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of

>>>>>>>>> anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the

>>>>>>>>> pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage.

>>>>>>>> I would not call it "mistake".

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Tell you the truth, we do it on purpose.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> If the patient is in so much pain, and has no hope whatsoever. What

>>>>>>>> should we do? Let him die tomorrow with 24 hours of pain or let

> him die

>>>>>>>> painless today?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Tell you another thing. We live with them. We KNOW we gave hin

> too much

>>>>>>>> morphine. And that is what killed him today. And not on his own

> tomorrow.

>>>>>>>> I know the faces. I SAW them. That is no fun.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> We KNOW that it will shorten their lifes.... by a few hours.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> You have any idea how often the death certificate should say "morphine

>>>>>>>> overdose" rather than some other horrible cause?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The difference is maybe a day. On the outside.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Tokay

>>>>>>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine

> overdose. It

>>>>>>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for

>>>>>>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> Jason, why do you condone one person killing another?

>>>>> I was discussing a doctor killing a patient that was already dying and was

>>>>> in severe pain. Mercy killing is VERY different than first degree murder.

>>>> Only in degree. And besides your religion opposes it strenuously. How

>>>> can you go against your religious teachings? It could send you to your

>>>> hell. Or do you simply let others do the killing and going to hell

>>>> while you bask in the dubious glory of being sensitive to the pain of

>>>> others?

>>>>

>>>>> In one state in America, it's legal for doctors to commit mercy killings.

>>>>> It should be legal in every state. Jesus spent most of his ministry

>>>>> talking about LOVE. Mercy Killing is a form of LOVE.

>>>> And yet you do not condone suicide, even when done to relieve pain. You

>>>> appear to believe that it's OK to kill someone in pain, but not for that

>>>> person to take their own life. Weird.

>>>>

>>>>> Jesus.

>>>>>

>>> Not really, if a person was told by their doctor that they only had two

>>> months to live--I would not have any negative things to say to that person

>>> if that person told me that he planned to commit suicide since he was had

>>> terrible pain and agony.

>> But would you send that person to your hell?

>>

>>> However, if I was in that same situation, I would not kill myself.

>>>

>>> Do you see the difference?

>>>

>> You would make a personal choice. However, you should not commit

>> yourself to a choice now, when you might have to make it later with more

>> knowledge of your actual circumstances.

>

> We have covered this issue before in relation to the use of illegal drugs

> and people that are having sex outside of marriage. I stated over and over

> again that I am not a sex cop; drug cop; or moral cop. If various people

> want to take dope; have sex--even homosexual sex or commit suicide---I

> will NOT take actions to prevent those people from doing those sorts of

> things. I would probably be arrested even if I tried to prevent people

> from doing those sorts of things.

>

> If people ask me for my advice related to moral issues, I will tell them

> not to take illegal drugs; not to have sex outside of marriage and to not

> commit suicide. If doctors choose to conduct mercy killings--if I was on

> their juries--I would vote NOT GUILTY unless there was evidence to

> indicate they were killing healthy people that were NOT near death.

>

> I would force my advice on the members of my family but not on anyone

> else. I am NOT a moral cop.

>

> Jason

>

But you would send these people to your hell, right?

October 28, 2007

Jason wrote:

> In article <4rWUi.2413$%Z2.1368@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus

> <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

>

>> Jason wrote:

>>> In article <gHRUi.2756$Vx3.2291@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus

>>> <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>> Jason wrote:

>>>>> In article <mbhUi.60742$Um6.37127@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, cactus

>>>>> <cactus@nonespam.com> wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>>> Jason wrote:

>>>>>>> In article <ffr5u2$cg1$01$1@news.t-online.com>, Tokay Pino Gris

>>>>>>> <tokay.gris.beau@gmx.net> wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Al Klein wrote:

>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:31:29 -0700, Kelsey Bjarnason

>>>>>>>>> <kbjarnason@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> [snips]

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:02:20 -0700, Jason wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>> For a person that is dying in terrible pain, there are hospice

> centers

>>>>>>>>>>> where people like that receive medications to ease the pain and

>>> they are

>>>>>>>>>>> allowed to die without feeling hardly any pain.

>>>>>>>>>> No, Jason, there are not.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> There are many diseases where the pain is so intense that the

>>>>> anaesthetics

>>>>>>>>>> required to kill the pain would kill the patient. Nice try, though.

>>>>>>>>> There are many diseases that cause so much pain that the amount of

>>>>>>>>> anesthesia required to kill the patient STILL won't even mitigate the

>>>>>>>>> pain. It's one reason some doctors make mistakes in morphine dosage.

>>>>>>>> I would not call it "mistake".

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Tell you the truth, we do it on purpose.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> If the patient is in so much pain, and has no hope whatsoever. What

>>>>>>>> should we do? Let him die tomorrow with 24 hours of pain or let

> him die

>>>>>>>> painless today?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Tell you another thing. We live with them. We KNOW we gave hin

> too much

>>>>>>>> morphine. And that is what killed him today. And not on his own

> tomorrow.

>>>>>>>> I know the faces. I SAW them. That is no fun.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> We KNOW that it will shorten their lifes.... by a few hours.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> You have any idea how often the death certificate should say "morphine

>>>>>>>> overdose" rather than some other horrible cause?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> The difference is maybe a day. On the outside.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Tokay

>>>>>>> I don't blame any doctor that gives such a patient a morphine

> overdose. It

>>>>>>> should be legal for doctors to do that. It's legal in one state for

>>>>>>> doctors to do that--it should be legal in every state.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> Jason, why do you condone one person killing another?

>>>>> I was discussing a doctor killing a patient that was already dying and was

>>>>> in severe pain. Mercy killing is VERY different than first degree murder.

>>>> Only in degree. And besides your religion opposes it strenuously. How

>>>> can you go against your religious teachings? It could send you to your

>>>> hell. Or do you simply let others do the killing and going to hell

>>>> while you bask in the dubious glory of being sensitive to the pain of

>>>> others?

>>>>

>>>>> In one state in America, it's legal for doctors to commit mercy killings.

>>>>> It should be legal in every state. Jesus spent most of his ministry

>>>>> talking about LOVE. Mercy Killing is a form of LOVE.

>>>> And yet you do not condone suicide, even when done to relieve pain. You

>>>> appear to believe that it's OK to kill someone in pain, but not for that

>>>> person to take their own life. Weird.

>>>>

>>>>> Jesus.

>>>>>

>>> Not really, if a person was told by their doctor that they only had two

>>> months to live--I would not have any negative things to say to that person

>>> if that person told me that he planned to commit suicide since he was had

>>> terrible pain and agony.

>> But would you send that person to your hell?

>>

>>> However, if I was in that same situation, I would not kill myself.

>>>

>>> Do you see the difference?

>>>

>> You would make a personal choice. However, you should not commit

>> yourself to a choice now, when you might have to make it later with more

>> knowledge of your actual circumstances.

>

> We have covered this issue before in relation to the use of illegal drugs

> and people that are having sex outside of marriage. I stated over and over

> again that I am not a sex cop; drug cop; or moral cop. If various people

> want to take dope; have sex--even homosexual sex or commit suicide---I

> will NOT take actions to prevent those people from doing those sorts of

> things. I would probably be arrested even if I tried to prevent people

> from doing those sorts of things.

>

> If people ask me for my advice related to moral issues, I will tell them

> not to take illegal drugs; not to have sex outside of marriage and to not

> commit suicide. If doctors choose to conduct mercy killings--if I was on

> their juries--I would vote NOT GUILTY unless there was evidence to

> indicate they were killing healthy people that were NOT near death.

>

> I would force my advice on the members of my family but not on anyone

> else. I am NOT a moral cop.

>

> Jason

>

But you would send these people to your hell, right?

October 28, 2007

Jason wrote:

> In article <fg26m1$7f9$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

> <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

>

>> Jason wrote:

>>> In article <ffvg3p$3pt$1@news04.infoave.net>, Mike

>>> <prabbit1@shamrocksgf.com> wrote:

>>>> You never said "it's a sin for a young, healthy person to commit

>>>> suicide." You've said "it's a sin to commit suicide, period."

>>>>

>>>> So why is it that it's a sin for a sick, dying person to commit suicide

>>>> and not a sin for the doctor to kill him?

>> Snip non sequiter.

>>

>> Answer the question ASKED for a change, Jason. Why is it a SIN for a

>> person to commit suicide and not for a doctor to kill that person? I

>> don't care about who has more knowledge or who you'd forgive (like your

>> forgiveness means anything) but what makes one a SIN and not the other?

>> Will a person who is terminal (and who KNOWS they are terminal, not this

>> "oh, I have a bad headache" crap of yours) and who kills themselves go

>> to heaven or hell? Simple question, simple one word answer. Now if you

>> say "heaven" then why would you not kill yourself in the same situation?

>> If you answer "hell" then what makes the difference between the person

>> doing it to himself or the doctor doing it?

>

> God is the judge of people and I am NOT the final judge. I don't know

> whether or not God would allow someone into heaven that committed

> suicide--regardless of the circumstances. I know that there are some

> preachers that believe that God will not allow anyone into heaven that

> commits suicide. Since I don't know for sure how God judges cases of

> suicide, I don't advise anyone to ever commit suicide. I would not ever

> even consider committing suicide for that reason.

>

> Doctors that commit mercy killings are a different situation. It's my

> opinion that mercy killing on patients that are near death and in terrible

> pain--are not committing sin but instead are showing love and compassion.

> I would advise those doctors to ask for forgiveness each day for their

> sins just in case God considers their actions to be sinful.

>

What if the doctor is a sadist or a Christian who does not believe in

mercy killing? Would you then condone suicide by the patient, or

someone else killing the patient at his request?

October 28, 2007