Hugo's idea of a solution for Single Mothers

[Lethalfind]

No, what you fail to see is that this guy had trouble written all over him for anyone to see and she CHOSE him anyway. And this lack of good sense seems to have infected far too many women these days. Traditional values are "confining" at best and "sexist and fascist" at worst. Good men with manners and responsible behavior are "boring". "Dangerous" men are far more exciting. Women like the "bad boys" and talk among themselves about how they will "change" him.

 

That's what is bullshit. He isn't going to change. The days of women "civilizing" men are over, thanks to the abandonment of those paternalistic values that "kept women down". In the rush to change what was wrong with the "old system" (and there was plenty wrong), YOU WOMEN threw the baby out with the bathwater. And now the social pressures that forced men to behave themselves aren't there. Violence against women, once rare but quiet, is now loud and everywhere.

 

This is NOT to say that this young woman deserved to die or that her actual death is anyone's fault other thant the rat bastard who killed her. But her BEING in the position to have violence perpetrated upon her WAS her own fault.

 

And my being an Irrational Prick doesn't change that fact. I really wish it did.

 

I have done some additional reading, I don't see how you can see he "had trouble written all over him". The article (and one other on this same website) mention he had a job (from which he likely got some of the supplies used in the burning) and that he had a car. He was 20 and she was 17. If I were her Mother, the age difference would have bothered me but other then that where do you see evidence that trouble was written all over him. If he had a record, it would have been stated in the article. Nothing was mentioned. I did an internet search and found no mention of this young man other then this incident.

Are you a mind reader?

[papabryant]

I have done some additional reading, I don't see how you can see he "had trouble written all over him". The article (and one other on this same website) mention he had a job (from which he likely got some of the supplies used in the burning) and that he had a car. He was 20 and she was 17. If I were her Mother, the age difference would have bothered me but other then that where do you see evidence that trouble was written all over him. If he had a record, it would have been stated in the article. Nothing was mentioned. I did an internet search and found no mention of this young man other then this incident.

Are you a mind reader?

 

No, I am a father of two daughters and a former youth pastor.

 

Keep following the story Lethal. This is just the preliminary reports. It'll be there.

[hugo]

I suggest before you fuck someone you have a clearer knowledge of their personality than you can glean from a newspaper.

[hugo]

I guess you gals are saying that a predisposition for violence is not something you look at before deciding to date someone?

[eisanbt]

Putting any blame on her is irrational.

 

Why not...

Blame the drug dealer for selling the drugs, not the person who took them.

Blame the bartender who sold the drinks, not the person who drank them.

Blame the girl who dressed pretty, not the man who raped her.

 

 

 

Learn some more about existentialism. Its very interesting stuff, potentially with the ability to change how you live. Hugo seems to be coming from this prespective.

[Lethalfind]

No, I am a father of two daughters and a former youth pastor.

 

Keep following the story Lethal. This is just the preliminary reports. It'll be there.

 

Your a former youth pastor, that speaks volumes on what an asshole you have shown yourself to be on here...

[TheJenn88]

I guess you gals are saying that a predisposition for violence is not something you look at before deciding to date someone?

 

And you draw that conclusion from...?

 

The ONLY thing I'm saying is that people cannot predict the outcome of their actions, no matter how good hearted or innocent their actions were in the first place. We are not all psychologists who can read body language, or interpret language to mean something like physical violence. And truly, some people don't exhibit signs of danger prior to engaging in a serious relationship.

 

Any person should be careful when choosing a partner, but it is not possible to know that something like this would happen.

[TheJenn88]

You are actually very close to what Hugo, eddo and I are saying.

 

But there is still a very natural but wrong-headed attempt to absolve this girl from ANY blame because to the tragic nature of what happened. I cannot stress how wrong that would be. She is not blameless, and making her blameless artificially would be to lose the powerful lesson this tragedy can teach other young women about being careful who they date or sleep with, and about what contitutes a dangerous individual whom you should not get involved with in the first place. About how you cannot "change" him from the violent animal he is, and about how making the wrong choices can cost you your life.

 

I know its not intentional on anyone's part, but it is still very frustrating to see what is happening here. Removing the proper blame from this young woman for the events that happened is to make her life and death meaningless and in vain. Please stop.

 

I will at no point deny that there is a lesson to be learned - both in preventative measures of dating violence, and how to recognize it. But from how you explain it, I don't agree that making her blameless would take away from the tragedy and statement of this event. I believe she is innocent in the respect that no one (that I can think of) would choose to have this action happen to them, and that the person who committed the crime is the soul person to bear the consequences and blame. She did not make him act.

 

Nonetheless, well said.

[Lethalfind]

And you draw that conclusion from...?

 

The ONLY thing I'm saying is that people cannot predict the outcome of their actions, no matter how good hearted or innocent their actions were in the first place. We are not all psychologists who can read body language, or interpret language to mean something like physical violence. And truly, some people don't exhibit signs of danger prior to engaging in a serious relationship.

 

Any person should be careful when choosing a partner, but it is not possible to know that something like this would happen.

 

Or sometimes people are VERY good actors.

 

Ted Bundy for example, well liked and active in the policitical community, people all over were completely taken aback, I suppose Hugo would have been able to see through the act.

 

John Wayne Gacy was a frequent visitor to childrens hospitals to help entertain the sick children, medical people came in contact with him and saw nothing wrong.

 

Jeffrey Dahmer admitted himself being a sick little bastard from the time he was a teenager but he hid it, no one had a clue what he was up to until he accidently let one of them get away.

 

The psychological community and law enforcement will tell you that sometimes the sickest people look the most normal, thats how they are SO successful at taking in their victims.

[hugo]

And you draw that conclusion from...?

 

The ONLY thing I'm saying is that people cannot predict the outcome of their actions, no matter how good hearted or innocent their actions were in the first place. We are not all psychologists who can read body language, or interpret language to mean something like physical violence. And truly, some people don't exhibit signs of danger prior to engaging in a serious relationship.

 

Any person should be careful when choosing a partner, but it is not possible to know that something like this would happen.

 

I am sure experts in the field can tell you that domestic violence usually escalates. The first incident is seldom murder.

 

A long time ago I learned defensive driving techniques labeled the Smith System where you take actions to prevent yourself from being the victim of stupid fucking drivers on the road. You attempt to always leave yourself an out regardless of what some dumbass might do. It does you little good if the other driver is 100% at fault if you are dead.

[hugo]

So....say tomorrow, a drunk driver slams into my car and kills me. Is it MY FAULT for having put myself in the situation to get hit? Or the other driver's fault?

 

There are steps you can take to reduce the chances of that happening. Everything from wearing seatbelts to drIving in the far right lane of an undivided freeway. THE FACT THE DRUNK DRIVER IS 100% AT FAULT DOES YOU NO GOOD WHEN YOU ARE DEAD

[Lethalfind]

Hugo, arrogance is rarely tolerated from someone as UGLY as you are...

[hugo]

Hugo, arrogance is rarely tolerated from someone as UGLY as you are...

 

Insults...when they have lost the debate that is all they have to resort to. Shallow insults at that.

[sixes]

I may sound insane ,but speaking as someone who has been around hugo's post for a long time now ..and the fact of his age ,the multi accounts has made with fake IPs ,and the same debating skill used over and over. I here conclude that he has more than one account here and is laughing his merry ass off. Almost 2 years later ,I have seen the same three account names say the same shit over and over. You want to debate my god man>? Debate this ,you are insane. ......But for the work you have put forth thus far ,you just may be ?????? I really dont know anymore ,thinking about this is a paradox I'll never understand.

 

http://Off Topic Forum.com/showthread.php?t=97794

[papabryant]

Insults...when they have lost the debate that is all they have to resort to. Shallow insults at that.

 

And shows she doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about either.

 

As a youth pastor I had to council young girls on just this very kind of thing, so I've seen it up close - close enough to have had to call the cops on two occasions. And this is with the "good" kids who have strong family support systems. God help those kids that don't.

 

Lethal - to paraphrase my friend Kryptonite Man: Check and Mate, Motherfucker. You don't know what you're talking about. And everyone sees it.

[papabryant]

I will at no point deny that there is a lesson to be learned - both in preventative measures of dating violence, and how to recognize it. But from how you explain it, I don't agree that making her blameless would take away from the tragedy and statement of this event. I believe she is innocent in the respect that no one (that I can think of) would choose to have this action happen to them, and that the person who committed the crime is the soul person to bear the consequences and blame. She did not make him act.

 

Nonetheless, well said.

 

Thank you Jenn. Its nice to meet someone I can agree to disagree with, and shake hands with afterward.

 

Tom

[angie]

 

Lethal - to paraphrase my friend Kryptonite Man: Check and Mate, Motherfucker.

Please don't EVER use that phrase ever ever again. It REALLY needs to be retired. I can't stand the redundancy-even if this is the first time I've seen you use it. KM overused it for the both of ya.

[papabryant]

Please don't EVER use that phrase ever ever again. It REALLY needs to be retired. I can't stand the redundancy-even if this is the first time I've seen you use it. KM overused it for the both of ya.

 

LOL, fine then.

[eddo]

A long time ago I learned defensive driving techniques labeled the Smith System where you take actions to prevent yourself from being the victim of stupid fucking drivers on the road. You attempt to always leave yourself an out regardless of what some dumbass might do. It does you little good if the other driver is 100% at fault if you are dead.

 

Excellent analogy Hugo.

[eisanbt]

To play middle man, Hugo's point is not about total blame (or so any rational person, as he seems to be, would say). The point is that in many, too mnay, cases where a young woman gets knocked up or murdered or murdered for being knocked up there is, 99% of the time, really obvious signs that the person they're with is unstable prior to the incident. Many times this is picked up on by outsiders such as friends and dismissed by the individuel who is obviously privy to much more of the shit-head's secrets and actions.

 

Because of this one can become cynical, like Hugo, and say "I'm done pitying you people, you were blind and I don't care anymore". There is some truth in this however the blame of the action taken ultimatly rests upon the perpitrator. But a "No pity for the dumb" attitude is quite understandable when it is such commom place.

 

Sound good folks?

[Lethalfind]

Insults...when they have lost the debate that is all they have to resort to. Shallow insults at that.

 

LOL, that wasn't a shallow insult that was a character assessment...

I think your a big man on here, but in real life I bet no one notices you because your well not worth noticing so you come on here talking lots of shit to make yourself feel big and it comes across as arrogance on your part...that and I am growing bored with your same old same old...

[Lethalfind]

And shows she doesn't know what the fuck she's talking about either.

 

As a youth pastor I had to council young girls on just this very kind of thing, so I've seen it up close - close enough to have had to call the cops on two occasions. And this is with the "good" kids who have strong family support systems. God help those kids that don't.

 

Lethal - to paraphrase my friend Kryptonite Man: Check and Mate, Motherfucker. You don't know what you're talking about. And everyone sees it.

 

You must have made one fabulous youth pastor given your performance on here...your just the kind of person that caused me to believe my daughter is better off WELL AWAY from your kind...Unfortunately you and people like Hugo aren't marked so the general public can pick you out...

 

AND by the way...if everyone sees it why is Hugo the one in the box ???

Got a hot answer for that Pastor??

[hugo]

You must have made one fabulous youth pastor given your performance on here...your just the kind of person that caused me to believe my daughter is better off WELL AWAY from your kind...Unfortunately you and people like Hugo aren't marked so the general public can pick you out...

 

AND by the way...if everyone sees it why is Hugo the one in the box ???

Got a hot answer for that Pastor??

 

That is easy to answer..It is because the majoroty of premium members are idiots. To quote Thoreau "On a site full of idiots the only proper place for an intelligent man is in the idiot box."

 

I feel sorry for your daughter going through life with a mother who is so judgemental concerning people whose views differ from her own. It is sad, quite sad. Particularly since she has no father.

[Lethalfind]

That is easy to answer..It is because the majoroty of premium members are idiots. To quote Thoreau "On a site full of idiots the only proper place for an intelligent man is in the idiot box."

 

I feel sorry for your daughter going through life with a mother who is so judgemental concerning people whose views differ from her own. It is sad, quite sad. Particularly since she has no father.

 

If this is how you feel, that a majority of the members here are idiots then why are you here? AND please how many times do you need to quote Thoreau, again does that make you feel like a big man?

 

As for my daughter, she is doing extremely well and I will do all I can to shield her from people I deem a threat to her happiness. Ass holes like you and Papabryant are the very type that I will keep out of her life as long as posible. As for you feeling sorry for her, save it for yourself.

I have always felt children are better off without a two parent household if that household is in constant chaos.

[papabryant]

You must have made one fabulous youth pastor given your performance on here...your just the kind of person that caused me to believe my daughter is better off WELL AWAY from your kind...Unfortunately you and people like Hugo aren't marked so the general public can pick you out...

 

AND by the way...if everyone sees it why is Hugo the one in the box ???

Got a hot answer for that Pastor??

 

Because the stupid people pay for what they can have for free?

 

And as for your daughter being better off away from someone like me - you'd better hope she has someone like me around in her life - a pastor, a teacher, a friend's parent - someone she can turn to when she's in danger. Because while you may love your daughter very much, YOU are setting her up for a fall, and are too blinded by pride to see it.

 

Sometimes its the outside casual observer who can see the big picture better.