eddo Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 That is the WHOLE point of this conflict. Women are made to feel its their fault, therefore they must stay and make it right. Which works right into the hands of the abuser because he wants ultimate control, you can't have that until you have beaten your victim down to the ground completely, then you can control and manipulate away because they no longer have what it takes to defy their abuser. People like Hugo just further that idea whether they are actually hitting anyone or not. Hugo never said that women were at fault for their abuse. He did, however, suggest that they can aid themselves in preventing it. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
angie Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Hugo never said that women were at fault for their abuse. He did, however, suggest that they can aid themselves in preventing it. You guys just don't get it. YES there are some things one can do to prevent that kind of situation, but there is only SO MUCH. Why can't you get that through your thick skulls? In the end, it is the abuser's fault. Not the victim. And you seem to forget that we are all human, and ALL OF US make poor choices at one point or another in our lives. Has every relationship you ever had been worthwhile and healthy? I doubt that. But you don't hear me saying "Oh well you should've known what your relationship was going to be like before you dated her". Quote http://www.darwinawards.com/ http://www.snopes.com http://www.breakthechain.org STOP THE SPAM!! Click Me You Know You Want To
eddo Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 In the end, it is the abuser's fault. Not the victim. ummm, I'm pretty sure we all agree on that. but no matter who's fault, there are things ahead of time that can be done to help you protect yourself. -Don't date losers. -Don't date guys with assualt records. -Don't date a guy that beats his dog. -if a guy hits you- leave him. If he did it once, he will do it again. all the things hugo and/or Dear Abby posted. No, these things aren't a guarantee against abuse, but they can totaly help you women protect yourselves against jerks, by being on the lookout for the warning signs. If you use them. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
angie Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 ummm, I'm pretty sure we all agree on that. but no matter who's fault, there are things ahead of time that can be done to help you protect yourself. -Don't date losers. -Don't date guys with assualt records. -Don't date a guy that beats his dog. -if a guy hits you- leave him. If he did it once, he will do it again. all the things hugo and/or Dear Abby posted. No, these things aren't a guarantee against abuse, but they can totaly help you women protect yourselves against jerks, by being on the lookout for the warning signs. If you use them. Okay look. Here's the scoop. NOT EVERYONE SHOWS THOSE SIGNS. I dated a loser once. Big loser. Physically abusive? No. But it probably could've gone there had I stuck around. Emotionally/verbally abusive? More than I care to think about. He had a college degree, nice friends, came from a nice upper-middle class family,no arrest record, didn't beat his animals. Was he controlling? Not at first. Next thing I knew, it was a year later, and he was telling me what to do, who I could and couldn't hang out with, where I could hang out,what I should and shouldn't wear. Accused me of doing all sorts of things when I went out with my friends just because I wasn't with him. Constantly telling me I was stupid, a whore, a loser, etc. Punching holes in my walls, throwing MY shit and breaking it. (Which was about the time I gave him the boot and showed him the door). He used to tell me he didn't like me hanging out with my BEST FRIEND. We've known each other for 10 years. And I finally figured out why-because she hated the son of a bitch, and it was mostly her that helped me leave him for good. And he knew it would happen. Funny thing? My family loved him, thought he was great. And my mother is NOT easy to win over by any means. He was just SUCH a manipulative prick who knew how to put on a good show. Quote http://www.darwinawards.com/ http://www.snopes.com http://www.breakthechain.org STOP THE SPAM!! Click Me You Know You Want To
Lethalfind Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Hugo never said that women were at fault for their abuse. He did, however, suggest that they can aid themselves in preventing it. Do you get paid for holding Hugo's dick?? Or just being his apologist? Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
Lethalfind Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Okay look. Here's the scoop. NOT EVERYONE SHOWS THOSE SIGNS. I dated a loser once. Big loser. Physically abusive? No. But it probably could've gone there had I stuck around. Emotionally/verbally abusive? More than I care to think about. He had a college degree, nice friends, came from a nice upper-middle class family,no arrest record, didn't beat his animals. Was he controlling? Not at first. Next thing I knew, it was a year later, and he was telling me what to do, who I could and couldn't hang out with, where I could hang out,what I should and shouldn't wear. Accused me of doing all sorts of things when I went out with my friends just because I wasn't with him. Constantly telling me I was stupid, a whore, a loser, etc. Punching holes in my walls, throwing MY shit and breaking it. (Which was about the time I gave him the boot and showed him the door). He used to tell me he didn't like me hanging out with my BEST FRIEND. We've known each other for 10 years. And I finally figured out why-because she hated the son of a bitch, and it was mostly her that helped me leave him for good. And he knew it would happen. Funny thing? My family loved him, thought he was great. And my mother is NOT easy to win over by any means. He was just SUCH a manipulative prick who knew how to put on a good show. I had something similar with Diane's birth Father. His whole family went to church regurlarly. His family seemed like the kind you would want your daughter to be associated with. It wasn't until he found out I was pregnant that I saw the true person he was. And then of course I saw how he got that way because his family reacted the same way. Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
eddo Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Do you get paid for holding Hugo's dick?? Or just being his apologist? lol, hugo doesn't need me. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
Lethalfind Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 lol, hugo doesn't need me. Yet you seem to follow right along behind him, repeating what he says...your nose must be brown you follow him so closely. Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
eddo Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 if you say so. Honestly, hugo and I have had more than our fair share of disagreements in the past. Guess I just see what he is saying in here better than you do. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
snafu Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 You guys just don't get it. YES there are some things one can do to prevent that kind of situation, but there is only SO MUCH. Why can't you get that through your thick skulls? In the end, it is the abuser's fault. Not the victim. And you seem to forget that we are all human, and ALL OF US make poor choices at one point or another in our lives. Has every relationship you ever had been worthwhile and healthy? I doubt that. But you don't hear me saying "Oh well you should've known what your relationship was going to be like before you dated her". eddo did you read what angie said?^^ Have you ever had a bad relationship? Are you perfect? The Messiah? Well come down to reality! You can’t know everything about a person right of the bat. You have to date knuckleheads once in a while. If you have the perfect way to extract yourself from non perfection, please enlighten me. Quote "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. That's just insane!" Penn & Teller NEVER FORGOTTEN
eddo Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 eddo did you read what angie said?^^ Have you ever had a bad relationship? Are you perfect? The Messiah? Well come down to reality! You can Quote I'm trusted by more women.
papabryant Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 That is the WHOLE point of this conflict. Women are made to feel its their fault, therefore they must stay and make it right. No, that's NOT the point of this conflict Lethal. You have COMPLETELY misunderstood everything being said to you. An abuser wants control, and will attempt to manipulate a woman to get control. Sorry, but us men folk just aren't that good an actor for that to work unless the woman A. Isn't careful to spot the signs, or B. Sees the signs but is deluded into thinking that "her love" will change him into a good man. WHATEVER happens after that point is the fault of the man. Period. But its GETTING TO THAT POINT that Hugo, Eddo and I have been saying is the woman's responsibility to herself. Simply saying "Oh, the man fooled me." doesn't cut it, because that gives A. and B. legitimacy as excuses. It is self-delusional - the very thing that GIVES the abuser the ability to worm his way in to a woman's life. Far from Hugo, Eddo and my position being continued control over a woman's life, our position sets them free. By making sure that women know that spotting abusers is their responsibility is empowering them with the ability to stop abuse before it starts. And yes, its just that simple. Freedom means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. Few things help an individual more than to place responsibility upon him, and to let him know that you trust him. The disappearance of a sense of responsibility is the most far-reaching consequence of submission to authority. And whether you realize it or not, that is what your position offers - a submission to the authority of the abuser. After all, they fooled you once and they'll do it again. You have no control over whether you will be abused. You have no control over anything - you are a creature of circumstance. Sorry, but instead of saying that women are creatures of circumstance, I want to say that women are the architects of circumstance. That separates the child from the adult. We have not passed that subtle line between childhood and adulthood until we move from the passive voice to the active voice -- that is, until we stop saying "It got lost," and say "I lost it." Quote A Christian with a Bible is a nuisance to your comfortable level of non-belief. And a Christian with a brain cannot be as easily dismissed as you might be accustomed to. But a Christian with both is a dangerous thing.
tizz Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Don't take any blame for someone hitting you! If the man was a man he would walk away. Even if you were a bitch(not saying you were). There is no reason on God's green earth for someone to hit another unless it's self defense! You pissed me off taking the blame!!:o I think Hugo is just saying if you know the guy is abusive, get the fuck out! It's easer said than done though. Put it this way. I take some blame for hiding what he did to me. I knew what he was doing, but because of my pregnancy and the situation I justified it. i take blame for that. But I aldo DID leave. I tried after my daghter was born to work things out, again, so she might have a father in her life BUT he could not change and I said adios. I did not know he would be abusive until AFTER I got pregnant and decided to keep it. Then things changed, and the way I say the world and what I had hoped would happen changed. Like I said, before he got abusive with me (which was a process that started with jealousy and verbal abuse that I justified and rationalised) I was the envy of most of my freinds as at one time he treated me like a queen. Aside from being a tad inexperienced in life, he was wonderful. But eventually it turned ugly. If he had started out being an ass I would never have even ventured on the first date with him. Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester
eddo Posted March 7, 2006 Posted March 7, 2006 Like I said, before he got abusive with me (which was a process that started with jealousy and verbal abuse that I justified and rationalised) Those would be the warning signs that we are talking about. True some guys are better at hiding it that others (and thusly for longer,) but if a guy is a jerk, the signs will be there. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
Lethalfind Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 Your right Eddo, the signs are there, great big neon ones, everytime I see your name on this website... Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
tizz Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 Ya but you have to READ MY WORDS> He was a perefect prince. When I got pregnant which complicated the issue at every angle, he slowly began to change. Because I was pregnant I found ways to justify it. Like I keep telling the morons around here. things like this are often more complicated than they appear. BUTyou have to be willing to listen to the voice of experience to understand that, IDIOT! Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester
scout Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 Angie and Tizz - my story is the same. The ass I married was great till after we were married. He fooled me as his family has fooled the community here. Seems it runs in the family. No, I didn't know till the divorce was in process and the sibblings came around asking questions. I went to his folks one night to see if they could help me with him. When I heard - Howard, Paul is acting up - I knew it was 2 down and never again. Quote
tizz Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 Every story is different and every circumstance is different. Eddo and hugo needto learn to hold judgement OR take a walk in other's shoes for once. Glad to know you got out too scout Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester
eddo Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 Every story is different and every circumstance is different. Eddo and hugo needto learn to hold judgement OR take a walk in other's shoes for once. oh, good grief... Quote I'm trusted by more women.
Lethalfind Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 Angie and Tizz - my story is the same. The ass I married was great till after we were married. He fooled me as his family has fooled the community here. Seems it runs in the family. No, I didn't know till the divorce was in process and the sibblings came around asking questions. I went to his folks one night to see if they could help me with him. When I heard - Howard, Paul is acting up - I knew it was 2 down and never again. My dad used to say you really find out alot about a mans character when you put a gun and a badge in his hands (my Dad while a law abiding citizen had HUGE issues with Police authorities), my new spin is you find out alot about a mans character when you put a positive pregnancy test in his hands... The man I was with went all Dr Jekyl Mr Hyde on me when I got pregnant... Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
angie Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 My dad used to say you really find out alot about a mans character when you put a gun and a badge in his hands (my Dad while a law abiding citizen had HUGE issues with Police authorities), my new spin is you find out alot about a mans character when you put a positive pregnancy test in his hands... The man I was with went all Dr Jekyl Mr Hyde on me when I got pregnant... You're right, Lethal. I have seen men do things I never would've thought they were capable of when their signifigant others got pregnant. That's how I REALLY knew my fiancee was a keeper. Granted I already thought he was a wonderful, loving, caring man. The day I found out I was pregnant I panicked and cried and called my best friend (Who thought it was hysterical and kept singing 'I'm gonna be an Auntie). After talking to her, I sat with knots in my stomach petrified of what he was going to say and do. He came home and I told him. He said "Okay." That was it. Totally calm. Took good care of me during the pregnancy too. Quote http://www.darwinawards.com/ http://www.snopes.com http://www.breakthechain.org STOP THE SPAM!! Click Me You Know You Want To
Lethalfind Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 You're right, Lethal. I have seen men do things I never would've thought they were capable of when their signifigant others got pregnant. That's how I REALLY knew my fiancee was a keeper. Granted I already thought he was a wonderful, loving, caring man. The day I found out I was pregnant I panicked and cried and called my best friend (Who thought it was hysterical and kept singing 'I'm gonna be an Auntie). After talking to her, I sat with knots in my stomach petrified of what he was going to say and do. He came home and I told him. He said "Okay." That was it. Totally calm. Took good care of me during the pregnancy too. Your very fortunate, he is a keeper. John (Dianes Father) curled up in a fetal ball at one point... I tried to get him connected to the pregnancy by putting his hand on my stomach and he jerked it away like I was on fire. Once she was born, we were of course broken up but he came over to see her, I tried to get him involved in her care, like bathing her, dressing her, feeding her all things which he did but he never formed any kind of bond to her because he was able to walk right out the door and not look back. Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
angie Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 Your very fortunate, he is a keeper. John (Dianes Father) curled up in a fetal ball at one point... I tried to get him connected to the pregnancy by putting his hand on my stomach and he jerked it away like I was on fire. Once she was born, we were of course broken up but he came over to see her, I tried to get him involved in her care, like bathing her, dressing her, feeding her all things which he did but he never formed any kind of bond to her because he was able to walk right out the door and not look back. I don't understand how parents DON'T form a bond. How can you not feel a bond with your own offspring? Or even the children of someone close to you? My daughter's godmother treats her like she were one of her own. I just don't get it. Sounds like Diane is better off not having him around at all then. Quote http://www.darwinawards.com/ http://www.snopes.com http://www.breakthechain.org STOP THE SPAM!! Click Me You Know You Want To
Lethalfind Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 I don't understand how parents DON'T form a bond. How can you not feel a bond with your own offspring? Or even the children of someone close to you? My daughter's godmother treats her like she were one of her own. I just don't get it. Sounds like Diane is better off not having him around at all then. What was strange about it is he didn't doubt she was his for a minute, and to look at them they looked just alike. They have this same strange shape of fingers that he noticed immediately. I thought maybe he was telling himself she was not his while I was pregnant but he wasn't and really, you should see pictures of them together when she was a baby with little hair, no mistaking they are father and daughter. He had his hair shaved really close (he had been a Marine) and she didn't have much yet. I never understood. It made me think there was something mentally deficient in him and also in his parents. They also declined to ever have anything to do with her. Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
angie Posted March 8, 2006 Posted March 8, 2006 What was strange about it is he didn't doubt she was his for a minute, and to look at them they looked just alike. They have this same strange shape of fingers that he noticed immediately. I thought maybe he was telling himself she was not his while I was pregnant but he wasn't and really, you should see pictures of them together when she was a baby with little hair, no mistaking they are father and daughter. He had his hair shaved really close (he had been a Marine) and she didn't have much yet. I never understood. It made me think there was something mentally deficient in him and also in his parents. They also declined to ever have anything to do with her. That's really sad (especially the grandparents part). They're losing out more than they know. Quote http://www.darwinawards.com/ http://www.snopes.com http://www.breakthechain.org STOP THE SPAM!! Click Me You Know You Want To
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