skategreen Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 I don't get it. Maybe some Christian can help me here... What's the use of praying to God, anyway? I'm not Christian and have never read the bible. But I hear things... I hear that we're supposed to pray. We're supposed to pray for our dearly departed. Why? If they're dead, they're supposedly in Heaven or Hell already. What good will prayer do them? Will prayer sway God? Will it get them out of Hell? I thought he'd already decided. I thought he'd weighed the guys life or faith and already sealed that puppy. Does God makes mistakes? "Oh shit! Wow! Look at all these people praying for the dead guy, hmmm, maybe I shouldn'ta sent him down the chute to Hell". I thought Heaven was supposed to be the Be-All and End-All of places. Why the Hell should anyone in Heaven need MY prayers? Ain't it all that it's cracked up to be? Do they need someone down here on earth cheering for them? And what the bloody good is Heaven anyway? What are we supposed to do there? Apparently there are no jobs. Nothing to strive for or succeed at. I'd rather work at 7-11 than be stuck on a cloud playing a harp for eternity. We're not supposed to pray for "things". We're not supposed to pray for specific items or toys ... we're supposed to pray for "God's Will". Well what the fuck? ..."God, please do whatever it is you bloody well planned to". Does he really need to hear that? Does he need our approval? What sort of egotistical bastard needs millions of poor suckers stuck on earth to pray that he does what he feels like. Sounds like a waste of time to me. What if you throw in a few personal type requests? If you ask for things for yourself, and not just for peace on earth or the souls in heaven..does he ever bend the rules? If he's feeling magnanimous do you suddenly wake up with straight teeth and a pony in the back yard? Wouldn't it be boring for him, to hear millions upon millions of prayers each day that he follows through with his will? Isn't God just about the most bigoted guy ever conceived of? He obviously has a thing for white guys. He's given them the big screen TVs and cell phones. He really seems to have it in for third world countries. Man, he really fucks with the folk with brown skin. And what's with all the bald headed kids in Heaven? What does he really need them for? He zaps how many kids a day with really nasty cancers? Just chops their legs off right under them, sends them through pain and misery and supposedly carts them off to heaven. What the Hell good is a bald headed 6 year old in heaven? They haven't learned to do diddly squat. What do you tell the poor kid? "Sorry Kid, God needs some really good bald headed Nintendo Players" ("It's all part of God's Will, and the Grand Scheme of things, you'll understand later") We need to get rid of this God concept. We need to get rid of the idea of prayer and the idea that anyone is listening and controlling these things. Cuz if there IS such a being? He's one twisted mean little fucker...some little bastard pulling the wings off flies for fun. If anyone was actually out there listening? The Vegas Odds would be on ET. Quote The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings. - Buddha
jokersarewild Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Wow...just wow. Prayer is supposed to be a way to communicate with God...I believe. I don't know why...shouldn't he be able to read our minds? Quote RoyalOrleans is my real dad!
skategreen Posted March 20, 2006 Author Posted March 20, 2006 Wow...just wow. Prayer is supposed to be a way to communicate with God...I believe. I don't know why...shouldn't he be able to read our minds? This is a good point. If he's all knowing and all that rot, he already knows just how sorry you are for flipping that asshole the finger on I-95... He knows you want a bigger house and knows you're afraid of war. He still does whatever he damn well pleases. Quote The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings. - Buddha
eddo Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 lol, I'd answer, but it is painfully obvious that you have no desire to actually understand it. please, by all means, continue bashing that which you do not understand. It makes you look very intelligent... Quote I'm trusted by more women.
skategreen Posted March 20, 2006 Author Posted March 20, 2006 lol, I'd answer, but it is painfully obvious that you have no desire to actually understand it. please, by all means, continue bashing that which you do not understand. It makes you look very intelligent... Oh bloody Hell. I dare you to try to explain it. I really do. You go ahead. I'd love to hear the answer. My entire POST tells that I don't understand the concept. Are you "intelligent" enough to back up your boast? Quote The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings. - Buddha
eddo Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 yes I am, but I don't see a need of sharing it with you, since you are quite obviously uninterested in hearing anything but more bashing. Good day. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
skategreen Posted March 20, 2006 Author Posted March 20, 2006 yes I am, but I don't see a need of sharing it with you, since you are quite obviously uninterested in hearing anything but more bashing. Good day. Chicken-shit 1 Quote The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings. - Buddha
sixes Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 yes I am, but I don't see a need of sharing it with you, since you are quite obviously uninterested in hearing anything but more bashing. Good day. I bet this guy pays fat hookers to kick him in the balls and shit in his face. Quote .
sixes Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 yes I am, but I don't see a need of sharing it with you, since you are quite obviously uninterested in hearing anything but more bashing. Good day. I bet this guy pays fat hookers to kick him in the balls and shit in his face. Quote .
eddo Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Chicken-shit yep, pretty much proves my point. Quote I'm trusted by more women.
skategreen Posted March 20, 2006 Author Posted March 20, 2006 yep, pretty much proves my point. It's a Gauntlet For the third or fourth time...... shakes head Quote The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings. - Buddha
eisanbt Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Human will is outside that of god's control, he made us like this (or so they say). Anyhow, we pray to god so that our will may be heard. Also to praise him and show our thanks etc.. Atleast this is my understanding of the concept. Quote http://www.boohbah.com/zone.html "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards" -Lewis Carroll
Gallytuck Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 lol, I'd answer, but it is painfully obvious that you have no desire to actually understand it. please, by all means, continue bashing that which you do not understand. It makes you look very intelligent... Eddo, it's called positive reinforcement/affirmation. And you know what? It works just as well if not better when you leave out the fairytale deity. Any non-sheeple who makes fun of a Christian is a smart individual simply for seeing past the dupe. Quote
manicmonday Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Prayer is a form of communication. Christians have a relationship with God and just as you have communication with people on earth that you want to grow with and get to know better, so it is with God. It's not about praying for a bigger house. It's about talking about desires and feelings and intimate private emotions that you possible don't share with even your closest loved ones. My faith doesn't practice praying for the deceased. Once they are gone, it's over. I don't believe Heaven is sitting on a cloud all day. But to describe Heaven to an unbeliever is like describing heroin to someone who's never tried it. The point will never get across. Please don't take that personal, because it's not directed at anyone. People were given free will and what many people want to blame on God can actually be blamed on humans, but it's usually hard to accept responsibility for our own actions, so why not blame God instead. I don't have the anwers for why 7 year olds get cancer. I don't have a clue. I agree that it's not fair, it's not right, it's not fun to watch. I hate it all. But I don't have the answers and I'm glad I'm not in control of the Universe. And I don't debate religion or politics because my faith is something I question everyday. And I'm learning everyday. It's not that I don't feel confident in the answers that I have found and learned. It's that how do you debate something that one person feels and someone else doesn't? It's like debating if I love you more than you love me. Totally subjective. I know I feel secure in what I believe and that I'm learning everyday. If I think something is starting to get out of line with my faith, I examine it and rethink and compare till I feel I'm where I need to be according to the faith I have choosen. I know that's vague sounding, but it can't be described as something rational because faith in something you can't see is in all reality is unrational. But I know my prayer have been answered and that was the orginal point of this thread. Sometimes we don't get the answer we want so we claim God was unfair. That's our human weakness. Quote The dick has no conscience and the heart has no rational abilities.
skategreen Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 Prayer is a form of communication. Christians have a relationship with God and just as you have communication with people on earth that you want to grow with and get to know better, so it is with God. It's not about praying for a bigger house. It's about talking about desires and feelings and intimate private emotions that you possible don't share with even your closest loved ones. My faith doesn't practice praying for the deceased. Once they are gone, it's over. Well this sounds much better than simply praying for God's Will Be Done. However it also sounds much like what one might get out of writing in a diary. It's a one-way-flow, a one-way communication. It's like writing a letter to Santa. The whole God/Heaven thing sounds suspiciously like the Legends of Santa Claus, (Santa with a dark side - no coal for you - eternal damnation instead.) I don't believe Heaven is sitting on a cloud all day. But to describe Heaven to an unbeliever is like describing heroin to someone who's never tried it. The point will never get across. Please don't take that personal, because it's not directed at anyone. I haven't met anyone yet who could actually describe a Heaven that sounds appealing (in an eternity sort of way) I have asked various people to describe it and to describe what they will do in heaven and I usually get stammers ending it, "it's going to be really good". I've yet to hear a decent forever described, and details are sorely lacking. I can't see bettin the bank on vague generalities. (by the way, the heroin analogy - from personal experience?) People were given free will and what many people want to blame on God can actually be blamed on humans, but it's usually hard to accept responsibility for our own actions, so why not blame God instead. Blame God, or McDonald's, or the tobacco companies, etc. etc. I don't have the anwers for why 7 year olds get cancer. I don't have a clue. I agree that it's not fair, it's not right, it's not fun to watch. I hate it all. But I don't have the answers and I'm glad I'm not in control of the Universe. And... if you WERE in control of the universe, I bet you'd be wiping out Cancer, cockroaches, and bad guys shooting Aunt Mabel. And I don't debate religion or politics because my faith is something I question everyday. And I'm learning everyday. It's not that I don't feel confident in the answers that I have found and learned. It's that how do you debate something that one person feels and someone else doesn't? It's like debating if I love you more than you love me. Totally subjective. I know I feel secure in what I believe and that I'm learning everyday. If I think something is starting to get out of line with my faith, I examine it and rethink and compare till I feel I'm where I need to be according to the faith I have choosen. I know that's vague sounding, but it can't be described as something rational because faith in something you can't see is in all reality is unrational. But I know my prayer have been answered and that was the orginal point of this thread. Sometimes we don't get the answer we want so we claim God was unfair. That's our human weakness. So...your faith is irrational? I'd buy that - the concept of blind faith being irrational.... but how can one continue to hold that faith, knowing it's irrational? I understand blind faith, it's what holds me up in the air in an airplane. (Mechanics aside - it still feels like magic when I'm up there) I can handle about 4 hours of that at a stretch - only cuz I really miss my family and I want to go see them without having to drive for 4 days. But I can't see having that hold me up all day long, all year long, all life long. Quote The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings. - Buddha
tizz Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Prayer is more of a selfish act. Way to look inside ourselves. I think most people that pray, will be able to tell you that you end up answering your own questions or coming to some self realization. there is also a power in it, kind of like laughter. Somehow I think prayer can create a tangible positive energy. Nothing to do with god really, just energy. Quote "An intelligence that is not humane is the most dangerous thing in the world" Ashley Montague "No one should have to walk alone" Phuong Du "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" Ghandi "If I were asked to define an American in a single phrase, I would say 'An American is a person who has the right to be different' and I think that right is growing" William Manchester
skategreen Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 Prayer is more of a selfish act. Way to look inside ourselves. I think most people that pray, will be able to tell you that you end up answering your own questions or coming to some self realization. there is also a power in it, kind of like laughter. Somehow I think prayer can create a tangible positive energy. Nothing to do with god really, just energy. kinetic or static? Quote The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings. - Buddha
Lethalfind Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 lol, I'd answer, but it is painfully obvious that you have no desire to actually understand it. please, by all means, continue bashing that which you do not understand. It makes you look very intelligent... Your such an ass hole... Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
Lethalfind Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I don't get it. Maybe some Christian can help me here... What's the use of praying to God, anyway? I'm not Christian and have never read the bible. But I hear things... I hear that we're supposed to pray. We're supposed to pray for our dearly departed. Why? If they're dead, they're supposedly in Heaven or Hell already. What good will prayer do them? Will prayer sway God? Will it get them out of Hell? I thought he'd already decided. I thought he'd weighed the guys life or faith and already sealed that puppy. Does God makes mistakes? "Oh shit! Wow! Look at all these people praying for the dead guy, hmmm, maybe I shouldn'ta sent him down the chute to Hell". I thought Heaven was supposed to be the Be-All and End-All of places. Why the Hell should anyone in Heaven need MY prayers? Ain't it all that it's cracked up to be? Do they need someone down here on earth cheering for them? And what the bloody good is Heaven anyway? What are we supposed to do there? Apparently there are no jobs. Nothing to strive for or succeed at. I'd rather work at 7-11 than be stuck on a cloud playing a harp for eternity. We're not supposed to pray for "things". We're not supposed to pray for specific items or toys ... we're supposed to pray for "God's Will". Well what the fuck? ..."God, please do whatever it is you bloody well planned to". Does he really need to hear that? Does he need our approval? What sort of egotistical bastard needs millions of poor suckers stuck on earth to pray that he does what he feels like. Sounds like a waste of time to me. What if you throw in a few personal type requests? If you ask for things for yourself, and not just for peace on earth or the souls in heaven..does he ever bend the rules? If he's feeling magnanimous do you suddenly wake up with straight teeth and a pony in the back yard? Wouldn't it be boring for him, to hear millions upon millions of prayers each day that he follows through with his will? Isn't God just about the most bigoted guy ever conceived of? He obviously has a thing for white guys. He's given them the big screen TVs and cell phones. He really seems to have it in for third world countries. Man, he really fucks with the folk with brown skin. And what's with all the bald headed kids in Heaven? What does he really need them for? He zaps how many kids a day with really nasty cancers? Just chops their legs off right under them, sends them through pain and misery and supposedly carts them off to heaven. What the Hell good is a bald headed 6 year old in heaven? They haven't learned to do diddly squat. What do you tell the poor kid? "Sorry Kid, God needs some really good bald headed Nintendo Players" ("It's all part of God's Will, and the Grand Scheme of things, you'll understand later") We need to get rid of this God concept. We need to get rid of the idea of prayer and the idea that anyone is listening and controlling these things. Cuz if there IS such a being? He's one twisted mean little fucker...some little bastard pulling the wings off flies for fun. If anyone was actually out there listening? The Vegas Odds would be on ET. I have always thought that prayer was really a way for people to make themselves feel better, pure and simple. Almost like therapy that you give yourself. Some people write their issues out in a journal, some people kneel down believing that an all seeing being in the heavens needs them to repeat this prayer, can't read their minds and will listen when they start to mumble on about the pathetic happenings in their life. Whatever works for you I guess... Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
manicmonday Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Well this sounds much better than simply praying for God's Will Be Done. However it also sounds much like what one might get out of writing in a diary. It's a one-way-flow, a one-way communication. It's like writing a letter to Santa. Actually no, it's not a one way communication. But the minute someone says God spoke to them, they are labeled nuts. You can label me that, my therapist has too. But it's not a one way street. The whole God/Heaven thing sounds suspiciously like the Legends of Santa Claus, (Santa with a dark side - no coal for you - eternal damnation instead.) I suppose to a nonbeliever Heaven does sound like Santa. I've never thought about it like that. My concern isn't with Heaven, it's living every day. This is not a cry me a river answer, but I personally struggle with things every day, some times every minute. Heaven isn't on my radar when getting thru those minutes. I haven't met anyone yet who could actually describe a Heaven that sounds appealing (in an eternity sort of way) I have asked various people to describe it and to describe what they will do in heaven and I usually get stammers ending it, "it's going to be really good". I've yet to hear a decent forever described, and details are sorely lacking. I can't see bettin the bank on vague generalities. (by the way, the heroin analogy - from personal experience?)[/b}] heroin-yes I don't describe Heaven to people, the one I have my eyes, because again that's not what I'm living for. I'm living for tomorrow. Blame God, or McDonald's, or the tobacco companies, etc. etc. Why not worry about what you can add that is positive in the world instead of blaming anyone or anything or entity? That's my focus, not on blaming some one for something. And... if you WERE in control of the universe, I bet you'd be wiping out Cancer, cockroaches, and bad guys shooting Aunt Mabel. This is a nonissue for me. God's in control but he didn't make us robots. I'm sorry bad guys shoot Aunt Mabel, but I'm glad we all aren't robots anamated to a sing songy song. So...your faith is irrational? I'd buy that - the concept of blind faith being irrational.... but how can one continue to hold that faith, knowing it's irrational? I understand blind faith, it's what holds me up in the air in an airplane. (Mechanics aside - it still feels like magic when I'm up there) I can handle about 4 hours of that at a stretch - only cuz I really miss my family and I want to go see them without having to drive for 4 days. But I can't see having that hold me up all day long, all year long, all life long. My faith is irration to unbelievers. It's not irrational to me. I'm human, my faith waivers. But to believe is something is better to not believe in something. How empty it is to not have faith in anything. And we all have blind faith in something. Mine is God. I think far too many people look at a relationship with God as what he can do for me, and give me. And I ask something different. What can I give? What can I do? I do that in all my relationships as well. I wouldn't get remarried having faith that he would give me everything I've dreamed of without consideration of what I was giving back. Quote The dick has no conscience and the heart has no rational abilities.
Gallytuck Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I wouldn't get remarried having faith that he would give me everything I've dreamed of without consideration of what I was giving back. Get out. Seriously? Quote
manicmonday Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Get out. Seriously? Seriously. Marriage isn't about what he's going to for me. I look at what can I contribute. Not in a doormat way, either, been there done that. But what am I adding to the relationship. Quote The dick has no conscience and the heart has no rational abilities.
Gallytuck Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Seriously. Marriage isn't about what he's going to for me. I look at what can I contribute. Not in a doormat way, either, been there done that. But what am I adding to the relationship. I like you. Not "like" like you. Like, ya know. Quote
manicmonday Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I like you. Not "like" like you. Like, ya know. Thank you. I understand what your saying. This is my attitude towards God as well. It's not the bigger house I want or the bigger car or better checking account. I want all those things. But it's what I can offer Him first. Everything else is secondary. Quote The dick has no conscience and the heart has no rational abilities.
jokersarewild Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Why do you need to offer "God" anything? He is an all-powerful deity with everything. What could a pion(no offense) possibly offer a deity with everything in the universe? Quote RoyalOrleans is my real dad!
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