*** JAPAN ADMITS A-BOMBS NECESSARY TO END THE WAR!! ***

[Guest t1gercat]

On Jul 2, 11:07 pm, "theloneranger...@aol.com"

<theloneranger...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Jul 2, 6:27?pm,t1gercat<wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>

>

> > The vast majority of people killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were old

> > people, children and women, non-combatants.

>

> You're aware that Women and Old People kept the Japanese Munitions

> Factories going, Arentcha?.........You're also Aware that the Japanese

> were Fanatically Suicidal and were Quite Prepared for the Average

> Citizen to Fight ANY Invasion to the DEATH, Arentcha?...........You do

> know that even the German KIDS Fought the Soviet and Allied Forces TO

> THE DEATH, Doncha?.........You Leftist Pukes sure are STUPID BASTARDS,

> You Know............Really DUMB Sonsabitches.............

 

How does one respond to such rank ignorance, such utter, pathologic

hostility? I know I can't change your mind. You're way too far gone

for that. Towards the end of the war, the Germans started pulling 13

and 14 year olds into service, since so many of their men were killed

or captured. The kids were seldom, if ever, used as front line

soldiers. They relieved older men from mundane duties, like guarding

stockpiles. Some did wind up fighting.

 

We used adolescents in combat, too. During the American civil war,

children as young as 12 enlisted on both sides. The South regularly

used 13 and 14 year olds to guard (and murder) prisoners, and the

North was fairly lax in enforcing enlistment standards. There was even

a 16 year old Northern Officer commissioned as a Lieutenant Colonel

and given command of a battalion. There was also a Union brigade of

greybeards, the youngest of whom was 50 and the oldest over 80. These

greybeards, like the youngsters, relieved soldiers of mundane duties

and freed them to fight.

 

As for old men and women working in Japan's munitions factories, so

what? They were still civilian non-combatants. Besides, your post is

just anger and nonsense. You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

viable factories of any size. Considering the fact that by 1945, the

Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan mercilessly

at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and had

been spared precisely because there were no military targets in them.

 

The first choice for cities to bomb, by the way, was Kyoto, which had

neither military nor civilian targets of any size. It was simply a

cultural and historical center. It was removed as a target only after

much pleading and argument from people who knew Japan and wanted the

city spared. The point is, our purpose was never the impairment of

Japanese production, it was the destruction of life and the ruination

of culture. This was not America's greatest moment, although to an

angry, miserable misanthropic coward like you, I'm sure it seemed

jolly enough.

[Guest izzy]

"Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )" quoted Wiki --

Koresh" isn't his original name. The current wiki claims:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh#Name_change

 

There is also a phonetic similarity to Hebrew kuf-resh-shin = nip,

bite off => which reverses to Greek sark- => which reverses again to

Hebrew kaf-resh-yod-shin KaRiSH = shark. The names of dangerous

animals are often reversed across languages.

 

Other examples:

elephant => Aramaic/Hebrew PiL

Hebrew bet-resh-khaf BeReKH = knee, leg + resh-aiyin = evil => Latin

Brachyura (crab genus) => reverses to krebb/crab

 

ciao,

Israel "izzy" Cohen

[Guest Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )]

Phlip wrote:

>

> >> "I don't have a grudge against the United States," he added.

> >>

> >> His remarks drew immediate protests from victims of the attacks."

> >

> > That's what the Japanese government has always said, Ranger. Try

> > reading some average Japanese posts, on Google groups, though! The

> > average Japanese thinks Harry Truman was a war criminal and the

> > Americans were worse than they were!

>

> I would have dropped the bomb on Mt Fuji, just to demonstrate we had it.

> That would only have blinded a few people.

>

You think blinding a few people is OK?

[Guest Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )]

"theloneranger100@aol.com" wrote:

>

> On Jul 3, 8:55?pm, "Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )"

> <tributyltinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> > "theloneranger...@aol.com" wrote:

> >

> > > On Jul 3, 10:03?am, "Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )"

> > > <tributyltinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> > > > "theloneranger...@aol.com" wrote:

> >

> > > > > On Jul 2, 10:10?pm, "Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )"

> > > > > <tributyltinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> >

> > > > > > It shouldn't be news that Koresh was nuts

> >

> > > > > How so?.........Koresh was badly wounded in the Original Assault as he

> > > > > opened the Front Door and Yelled at the Agents to "Knock It Off - We

> > > > > have Women & Children In Here!"..........I'm sure Koresh was suffering

> > > > > the effects of his Wounds rather than "being nuts" as you put

> > > > > it...........Better Re-Read the Treasury Report...........

> >

> > > > I didn't read it in the first place. So you are saying that he was sane,

> > > > even though he thought he was Jesus Christ, and it was just the toxic

> > > > effects of infection that brought about his behaviour?

> >

> > > I don't recall Koresh saying he was "Jesus Christ".............

> >

> > "Koresh" isn't his original name. The current wiki claims:

>

> C'mon, Bill........You KNOW Wikipedia ISN'T a Credible Source of

> Anything.........

>

Which is why the material in wiki is supposed to be cited to something

else. I thought that that claim was in fact so cited.

 

 

--

"There are some gals who don't like to be pushed and grabbed and lassoed

and drug into buses in the middle of the night."

"How else was I gonna get her on the bus? Well, I'm askin' ya.",

George Axelrod, "Bus Stop"

[Guest theloneranger100@aol.com]

On Jul 4, 11:26?pm, "Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )"

<tributyltinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> "theloneranger...@aol.com" wrote:

>

> > On Jul 3, 8:55?pm, "Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )"

> > <tributyltinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> > > "theloneranger...@aol.com" wrote:

>

> > > > On Jul 3, 10:03?am, "Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )"

> > > > <tributyltinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> > > > > "theloneranger...@aol.com" wrote:

>

> > > > > > On Jul 2, 10:10?pm, "Bill Bonde ( 'Hi ho' )"

> > > > > > <tributyltinpa...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>

> > > > > > > It shouldn't be news that Koresh was nuts

>

> > > > > > How so?.........Koresh was badly wounded in the Original Assault as he

> > > > > > opened the Front Door and Yelled at the Agents to "Knock It Off - We

> > > > > > have Women & Children In Here!"..........I'm sure Koresh was suffering

> > > > > > the effects of his Wounds rather than "being nuts" as you put

> > > > > > it...........Better Re-Read the Treasury Report...........

>

> > > > > I didn't read it in the first place. So you are saying that he was sane,

> > > > > even though he thought he was Jesus Christ, and it was just the toxic

> > > > > effects of infection that brought about his behaviour?

>

> > > > I don't recall Koresh saying he was "Jesus Christ".............

>

> > > "Koresh" isn't his original name. The current wiki claims:

>

> > C'mon, Bill........You KNOW Wikipedia ISN'T a Credible Source of

> > Anything.........

>

> Which is why the material in wiki is supposed to be cited to something

> else. I thought that that claim was in fact so cited.

 

In Theory only...........Any Wiki Article is subject to challenge and

"editing" by Readers..........

[Guest theloneranger100@aol.com]

On Jul 4, 7:56?pm, t1gercat <wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> The kids were seldom, if ever, used as front line

> soldiers.

 

H-O-R-S-E-S-H-I-T...........When Germany was Overrun by the Allies,

The Kids were IN THE FRONT LINES, DumbAss............Just as KIDS and

WOMEN would have been in the Front Lines Defending against an Allied

Assault...........

> As for old men and women working in Japan's munitions factories, so

> what? They were still civilian non-combatants.

 

They KEPT THE WAR SUPPLIED, DumbAss........Without them, the War would

have ground to a HALT.........

 

Besides, your post is

> just anger and nonsense.

 

Because you're so STUPID you CAN'T Refute it?..........

 

You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

> viable factories of any size.

 

It really makes NO DIFFERENCE...........America had to DESTROY as much

of Japan as it could to END the War...........That IS what Ends

Wars.........T-O-T-A-L D-E-S-T-R-U-C-T-I-O-N...........

 

Considering the fact that by 1945, the

> Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan mercilessly

> at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

> especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and had

> been spared precisely because there were no military targets in them.

 

Allied Estimates were ONE MILLION ALLIED CASUALTIES to Invade Japan

Proper.........

 

This was not America's greatest moment, although to an

> angry, miserable misanthropic coward like you, I'm sure it seemed

> jolly enough.

 

America was trying to END a War, Moron.........Wars AREN'T

"Pretty"..........People like YOU would cause America to LOSE

Wars.........

[Guest t1gercat]

On Jul 5, 6:22 am, "theloneranger...@aol.com"

<ScreenRanger...@aol.com> wrote:

> On Jul 4, 7:56?pm,t1gercat<wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>

>

> > The kids were seldom, if ever, used as front line

> > soldiers.

>

> H-O-R-S-E-S-H-I-T...........When Germany was Overrun by the Allies,

> The Kids were IN THE FRONT LINES, DumbAss............Just as KIDS and

> WOMEN would have been in the Front Lines Defending against an Allied

> Assault...........

>

> > As for old men and women working in Japan's munitions factories, so

> > what? They were still civilian non-combatants.

>

> They KEPT THE WAR SUPPLIED, DumbAss........Without them, the War would

> have ground to a HALT.........

>

> Besides, your post is

>

> > just anger and nonsense.

>

> Because you're so STUPID you CAN'T Refute it?..........

>

> You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

>

> > viable factories of any size.

>

> It really makes NO DIFFERENCE...........America had to DESTROY as much

> of Japan as it could to END the War...........That IS what Ends

> Wars.........T-O-T-A-L D-E-S-T-R-U-C-T-I-O-N...........

>

> Considering the fact that by 1945, the

>

> > Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan mercilessly

> > at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

> > especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and had

> > been spared precisely because there were no military targets in them.

>

> Allied Estimates were ONE MILLION ALLIED CASUALTIES to Invade Japan

> Proper.........

>

> This was not America's greatest moment, although to an

>

> > angry, miserable misanthropic coward like you, I'm sure it seemed

> > jolly enough.

>

> America was trying to END a War, Moron.........Wars AREN'T

> "Pretty"..........People like YOU would cause America to LOSE

> Wars.........

 

America had ample opportunity to end the war before the bombs were

dropped. You're too ignorant to know much about it, but I've got good

company on my side. Eisenhower and Montgomery would have agreed with

me. Of course, all you know is what you read in the comics and heard

from your friends in the bar.

[Guest theloneranger100@aol.com]

On Jul 5, 2:08?pm, t1gercat <wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jul 5, 6:22 am, "theloneranger...@aol.com"

>

>

>

>

>

> <ScreenRanger...@aol.com> wrote:

> > On Jul 4, 7:56?pm,t1gercat<wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> > > The kids were seldom, if ever, used as front line

> > > soldiers.

>

> > H-O-R-S-E-S-H-I-T...........When Germany was Overrun by the Allies,

> > The Kids were IN THE FRONT LINES, DumbAss............Just as KIDS and

> > WOMEN would have been in the Front Lines Defending against an Allied

> > Assault...........

>

> > > As for old men and women working in Japan's munitions factories, so

> > > what? They were still civilian non-combatants.

>

> > They KEPT THE WAR SUPPLIED, DumbAss........Without them, the War would

> > have ground to a HALT.........

>

> > Besides, your post is

>

> > > just anger and nonsense.

>

> > Because you're so STUPID you CAN'T Refute it?..........

>

> > You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

>

> > > viable factories of any size.

>

> > It really makes NO DIFFERENCE...........America had to DESTROY as much

> > of Japan as it could to END the War...........That IS what Ends

> > Wars.........T-O-T-A-L D-E-S-T-R-U-C-T-I-O-N...........

>

> > Considering the fact that by 1945, the

>

> > > Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan mercilessly

> > > at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

> > > especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and had

> > > been spared precisely because there were no military targets in them.

>

> > Allied Estimates were ONE MILLION ALLIED CASUALTIES to Invade Japan

> > Proper.........

>

> > This was not America's greatest moment, although to an

>

> > > angry, miserable misanthropic coward like you, I'm sure it seemed

> > > jolly enough.

>

> > America was trying to END a War, Moron.........Wars AREN'T

> > "Pretty"..........People like YOU would cause America to LOSE

> > Wars.........

>

> America had ample opportunity to end the war before the bombs were

> dropped.

 

You're just Fucking NUTS, Dude..........

[Guest Gregory Morrow]

t1gercat wrote:

> On Jul 5, 6:22 am, "theloneranger...@aol.com"

> <ScreenRanger...@aol.com> wrote:

> > On Jul 4, 7:56?pm,t1gercat<wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > > The kids were seldom, if ever, used as front line

> > > soldiers.

> >

> > H-O-R-S-E-S-H-I-T...........When Germany was Overrun by the Allies,

> > The Kids were IN THE FRONT LINES, DumbAss............Just as KIDS and

> > WOMEN would have been in the Front Lines Defending against an Allied

> > Assault...........

> >

> > > As for old men and women working in Japan's munitions factories, so

> > > what? They were still civilian non-combatants.

> >

> > They KEPT THE WAR SUPPLIED, DumbAss........Without them, the War would

> > have ground to a HALT.........

> >

> > Besides, your post is

> >

> > > just anger and nonsense.

> >

> > Because you're so STUPID you CAN'T Refute it?..........

> >

> > You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

> >

> > > viable factories of any size.

> >

> > It really makes NO DIFFERENCE...........America had to DESTROY as much

> > of Japan as it could to END the War...........That IS what Ends

> > Wars.........T-O-T-A-L D-E-S-T-R-U-C-T-I-O-N...........

> >

> > Considering the fact that by 1945, the

> >

> > > Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan mercilessly

> > > at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

> > > especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and had

> > > been spared precisely because there were no military targets in them.

> >

> > Allied Estimates were ONE MILLION ALLIED CASUALTIES to Invade Japan

> > Proper.........

> >

> > This was not America's greatest moment, although to an

> >

> > > angry, miserable misanthropic coward like you, I'm sure it seemed

> > > jolly enough.

> >

> > America was trying to END a War, Moron.........Wars AREN'T

> > "Pretty"..........People like YOU would cause America to LOSE

> > Wars.........

>

> America had ample opportunity to end the war before the bombs were

> dropped. You're too ignorant to know much about it, but I've got good

> company on my side. Eisenhower and Montgomery would have agreed with

> me. Of course, all you know is what you read in the comics and heard

> from your friends in the bar.

 

 

Nope, Jak is RIGHT...

 

The Japs were prepared to defend themselves during an invasion down to the

last woman and child, there were plans to use wooden SPIKES against the US

invaders if weapons and ammunition ran out...US DoD casualty estimates were

for a MINIMUM of ONE MILLION US military deaths...TWICE the number of

casualties we'd suffered in ALL theaters of war during the previous four

years.

 

Besides which, the dropping of the bombs not only shortened the war but put

the KIBBOSH on even further Soviet expansion plans in the Far East. If the

Soviets had gotten in even further we would have been looking at a divided

Japan a la Korea, Soviet control of strategic Chinese ports (Darien, etc.),

etc. All this was spelled out in the Potsdam and other agreements that we

made with the Soviets, look it up...

 

Truman's decision to drop the bomb was an enormous blessing, it saved many

millions of lives on both sides. It also signalled to the Russians that we

were not afraid to play hard ball. In fact you might say that seeds of the

eventual destruction of the USSR were planted by the dropping of those bombs

in August of 1945, it led to an arms race that in the end bankrupted them.

Harry Truman was a man of foresight, he foresaw the break - up of the VILE

Soviet system...it's just a pity he didn't live to see it.

 

The bombs so SHOCKED the Japanese that they vowed to become a nation of

peace. That they have done, and with MacArthur's occupation of Japan they

also became one of the most progressive nations on earth, all that old

Japanase military Bushido nonsense, virtual slavery of women, 'warrior'

culture, etc. was thrown out FOREVER...things could NOT have turned out

better for them in fact.

 

It's easy for you to say that history might have turned out differently and

even better had the bombs not been dropped, but then you have the luxury of

foresight that the military and political strategists of 1945 did not.

 

--

Best

Greg

[Guest Gregory Morrow]

Yak yakked:

> On Jul 5, 2:08?pm, t1gercat <wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > On Jul 5, 6:22 am, "theloneranger...@aol.com"

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > <ScreenRanger...@aol.com> wrote:

> > > On Jul 4, 7:56?pm,t1gercat<wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >

> > > > The kids were seldom, if ever, used as front line

> > > > soldiers.

> >

> > > H-O-R-S-E-S-H-I-T...........When Germany was Overrun by the Allies,

> > > The Kids were IN THE FRONT LINES, DumbAss............Just as KIDS and

> > > WOMEN would have been in the Front Lines Defending against an Allied

> > > Assault...........

> >

> > > > As for old men and women working in Japan's munitions factories, so

> > > > what? They were still civilian non-combatants.

> >

> > > They KEPT THE WAR SUPPLIED, DumbAss........Without them, the War would

> > > have ground to a HALT.........

> >

> > > Besides, your post is

> >

> > > > just anger and nonsense.

> >

> > > Because you're so STUPID you CAN'T Refute it?..........

> >

> > > You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

> >

> > > > viable factories of any size.

> >

> > > It really makes NO DIFFERENCE...........America had to DESTROY as much

> > > of Japan as it could to END the War...........That IS what Ends

> > > Wars.........T-O-T-A-L D-E-S-T-R-U-C-T-I-O-N...........

> >

> > > Considering the fact that by 1945, the

> >

> > > > Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan

mercilessly

> > > > at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

> > > > especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and

had

> > > > been spared precisely because there were no military targets in

them.

> >

> > > Allied Estimates were ONE MILLION ALLIED CASUALTIES to Invade Japan

> > > Proper.........

> >

> > > This was not America's greatest moment, although to an

> >

> > > > angry, miserable misanthropic coward like you, I'm sure it seemed

> > > > jolly enough.

> >

> > > America was trying to END a War, Moron.........Wars AREN'T

> > > "Pretty"..........People like YOU would cause America to LOSE

> > > Wars.........

> >

> > America had ample opportunity to end the war before the bombs were

> > dropped.

>

> You're just Fucking NUTS, Dude..........

 

 

Heehee, Yak...........you are SO right. The puke need to stop BLABBERING

and read some HISTORY.....and history that is NOT from a leftist

"peacenik'"perspective too..........

 

--

Best

Greg

[Guest hiroshima_facts@yahoo.com]

On Jul 4, 10:56 pm, t1gercat <wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

> viable factories of any size. Considering the fact that by 1945, the

> Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan mercilessly

> at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

> especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and had

> been spared precisely because there were no military targets in them.

 

They were hardly spared because they lacked military targets.

 

Hiroshima was Japan's largest military town. Its military districts

held tens of thousands of soldiers. Hiroshima also held the

headquarters for the Japanese Second General Army, which was in charge

of repelling any invasion in the southern half of Japan (which was

where we were planning to invade next).

 

The second bomb was meant for Kokura Arsenal, a massive (4100' x

2000') arms production complex. The alternate target was the

Mitsubishi Shipyards (a massive warship-construction complex across

the bay from Nagasaki). Due to technical and weather difficulties,

the bomb ended up being dropped to the north of Nagasaki, where it

destroyed both the Mitsubishi Torpedo Works (which happened to be the

place that made the torpedoes for Pearl Harbor) and the Mitsubishi

Steel and Arms Works.

 

 

> The first choice for cities to bomb, by the way, was Kyoto, which had

> neither military nor civilian targets of any size. It was simply a

> cultural and historical center. It was removed as a target only after

> much pleading and argument from people who knew Japan and wanted the

> city spared.

 

No begging and pleading was necessary. The person who wanted Kyoto

spared was the Secretary of War. All he needed to do was order that

Kyodo be spared -- as soon as he did, the matter was settled. The

only person who could have overruled him was Truman, and Truman was

not inclined to do so.

 

 

> The point is, our purpose was never the impairment of

> Japanese production, it was the destruction of life and the ruination

> of culture.

 

Our purpose was to shock Japan into surrendering.

[Guest hiroshima_facts@yahoo.com]

On Jul 5, 5:08 pm, t1gercat <wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> America had ample opportunity to end the war before the bombs were

> dropped.

 

It isn't our fault Japan was refusing to surrender. That was Japan's

choice, not ours.

[Guest t1gercat]

On Jul 5, 6:58 pm, hiroshima_fa...@yahoo.com wrote:

> On Jul 4, 10:56 pm,t1gercat<wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>

>

> > You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

> > viable factories of any size. Considering the fact that by 1945, the

> > Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan mercilessly

> > at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

> > especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and had

> > been spared precisely because there were no military targets in them.

>

> They were hardly spared because they lacked military targets.

>

> Hiroshima was Japan's largest military town. Its military districts

> held tens of thousands of soldiers.

 

Yeah, shure. So, this significant, dangerous place was largely ignored

until August, 1945. We were perfectly capable of utterly destroying

everything in Hiroshima with conventional weapons, had we wanted.

Tokyo had been turned into a wasteland. Hiroshima was spared because

it just wasn't very important. The fact that some army HQ were located

there is largely meaningless in terms of winning the war. It sounds

impressive but such targets have little stategic value.

> Hiroshima also held the

> headquarters for the Japanese Second General Army, which was in charge

> of repelling any invasion in the southern half of Japan (which was

> where we were planning to invade next).

 

We never needed to invade. As for housing an army HQ, see above.

>

> The second bomb was meant for Kokura Arsenal, a massive (4100' x

> 2000') arms production complex. The alternate target was the

> Mitsubishi Shipyards (a massive warship-construction complex across

> the bay from Nagasaki).

 

Which was doing what in August, 1945? The Japanese Navy was vitually

anihilated by that time. We could drop conventional bombs on their

shipyards at our leisure. There was no strategic reason to destroy

Yokohama.

 

Due to technical and weather difficulties,

> the bomb ended up being dropped to the north of Nagasaki, where it

> destroyed both the Mitsubishi Torpedo Works (which happened to be the

> place that made the torpedoes for Pearl Harbor) and the Mitsubishi

> Steel and Arms Works.

 

How many submarines did Japan have left at the end of the war? The

Japanese submarine fleet was never effective, and by the last years of

the war, the Japanese, with no merchant ships left, used their

submarines for supply runs. By the end of the war, the remaining 40 or

so boats in the Japanese Navy were either triaining vessles or had

never been launched. By 1945 all of the 30 submarines that had taken

part in the attack on Pearl Harbor had been destroyed. Given the fact,

that Japan had literally no fighting subs left, it's ludicrous to

suggest that a torpedo factory was reason enough to kill tens of

thousands of civilians with an atomic bomb.

>

> > The first choice for cities to bomb, by the way, was Kyoto, which had

> > neither military nor civilian targets of any size. It was simply a

> > cultural and historical center. It was removed as a target only after

> > much pleading and argument from people who knew Japan and wanted the

> > city spared.

>

> No begging and pleading was necessary.

 

It certainly was. You know very little about this.

> The person who wanted Kyoto

> spared was the Secretary of War. All he needed to do was order that

> Kyodo be spared -- as soon as he did, the matter was settled. The

> only person who could have overruled him was Truman, and Truman was

> not inclined to do so.

>

> > The point is, our purpose was never the impairment of

> > Japanese production, it was the destruction of life and the ruination

> > of culture.

>

> Our purpose was to shock Japan into surrendering.

 

There were multiple purposes, most of which were nothing but political

bunk, but Japan would have surrendered without our slaughter of

100,000 civilians.

[Guest theloneranger100@aol.com]

On Jul 5, 8:46?pm, t1gercat <wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> There were multiple purposes, most of which were nothing but political

> bunk, but Japan would have surrendered without our slaughter of

> 100,000 civilians.

 

NO PROOF of that.........But PLENTY of Proof of the Japanese

UNWILLINGNESS to Surrender..........In any case, we did what we HAD to

do in order to End The War with Japan as Soon As We Could and I highly

DOUBT any of the people involved with the War Effort in 1945 had any

"Sympathy" for the Japanese..........The Bastards Started it, and WE

FINISHED IT...........END of Story...........Y'see, that's what

happens when Stupid People Fuck With

America..........Donchaknow............The Japs DESERVED what they

got............

[Guest hiroshima_facts@yahoo.com]

On Jul 5, 11:46 pm, t1gercat <wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Jul 5, 6:58 pm, hiroshima_fa...@yahoo.com wrote:

>

> > On Jul 4, 10:56 pm,t1gercat<wexford1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>

> > > You have no idea whether or not Hiroshima had

> > > viable factories of any size. Considering the fact that by 1945, the

> > > Japanese air defenses were obliterated and we bombed Japan mercilessly

> > > at our pleasure, it's unlikely that any working factories were left,

> > > especially in 2 cities that had been spared up to that point, and had

> > > been spared precisely because there were no military targets in them.

> >

> > They were hardly spared because they lacked military targets.

> >

> > Hiroshima was Japan's largest military town. Its military districts

> > held tens of thousands of soldiers.

>

> Yeah, shure. So, this significant, dangerous place was largely ignored

> until August, 1945. We were perfectly capable of utterly destroying

> everything in Hiroshima with conventional weapons, had we wanted.

 

We didn't want to destroy it with conventional weapons. We wanted to

destroy it with an atomic weapon.

 

 

> Tokyo had been turned into a wasteland. Hiroshima was spared because

> it just wasn't very important.

 

Nope. Hiroshima was spared because we were saving it for the A-bomb.

 

 

> The fact that some army HQ were located

> there is largely meaningless in terms of winning the war. It sounds

> impressive but such targets have little stategic value.

>

> > Hiroshima also held the

> > headquarters for the Japanese Second General Army, which was in charge

> > of repelling any invasion in the southern half of Japan (which was

> > where we were planning to invade next).

>

> We never needed to invade. As for housing an army HQ, see above.

 

Had Japan refused to surrender, we would have needed to invade.

 

And when we dropped the bombs, Japan hadn't surrendered.

 

 

> > The second bomb was meant for Kokura Arsenal, a massive (4100' x

> > 2000') arms production complex. The alternate target was the

> > Mitsubishi Shipyards (a massive warship-construction complex across

> > the bay from Nagasaki).

>

> Which was doing what in August, 1945? The Japanese Navy was vitually

> anihilated by that time. We could drop conventional bombs on their

> shipyards at our leisure. There was no strategic reason to destroy

> Yokohama.

>

> > Due to technical and weather difficulties,

> > the bomb ended up being dropped to the north of Nagasaki, where it

> > destroyed both the Mitsubishi Torpedo Works (which happened to be the

> > place that made the torpedoes for Pearl Harbor) and the Mitsubishi

> > Steel and Arms Works.

>

> How many submarines did Japan have left at the end of the war? The

> Japanese submarine fleet was never effective, and by the last years of

> the war, the Japanese, with no merchant ships left, used their

> submarines for supply runs. By the end of the war, the remaining 40 or

> so boats in the Japanese Navy were either triaining vessles or had

> never been launched. By 1945 all of the 30 submarines that had taken

> part in the attack on Pearl Harbor had been destroyed. Given the fact,

> that Japan had literally no fighting subs left, it's ludicrous to

> suggest that a torpedo factory was reason enough to kill tens of

> thousands of civilians with an atomic bomb.

 

Actually, my point was to show that your statement that there "were no

military targets" was completely incorrect.

 

Whether the military targets justified the use of the bomb is an

entirely different question.

 

 

> > > The first choice for cities to bomb, by the way, was Kyoto, which had

> > > neither military nor civilian targets of any size. It was simply a

> > > cultural and historical center. It was removed as a target only after

> > > much pleading and argument from people who knew Japan and wanted the

> > > city spared.

> >

> > No begging and pleading was necessary.

>

> It certainly was.

 

The Secretary of War did not need to beg the military not to hit

Kyoto.

 

He told them they were not to nuke Kyoto. As the Secretary of War,

he got to give orders to the military

 

 

> You know very little about this.

 

You wish.

 

 

> > The person who wanted Kyoto

> > spared was the Secretary of War. All he needed to do was order that

> > Kyodo be spared -- as soon as he did, the matter was settled. The

> > only person who could have overruled him was Truman, and Truman was

> > not inclined to do so.

> >

> > > The point is, our purpose was never the impairment of

> > > Japanese production, it was the destruction of life and the ruination

> > > of culture.

> >

> > Our purpose was to shock Japan into surrendering.

>

> There were multiple purposes, most of which were nothing but political

> bunk, but Japan would have surrendered without our slaughter of

> 100,000 civilians.

 

The main purpose was the hope it would shock Japan into surrendering.

 

It wasn't our fault that they waited until after the A-bombs to

surrender.