Fair Go for David Hicks

[stayhuman]

Come on you guys.......it's time to let him come home.

 

http://www.fairgofordavid.org/htmlfiles/main.htm

[stayhuman]

http://www.fairgofordavid.org/images/moir_smh20July04.jpg

 

"freedom and justice for all" ?????????

[phreakwars]

Now that I have fixed your post... who the hell is David Hicks ???

.

.

[stayhuman]

...an australian citizen stuck in legal limbo-guantanamo bay.

 

he has just managed to gain british citizenship (his mother-english).....

blair got british citizens out of there years ago....reckons it's an illegal

hellhole

[builder]

Now that I have fixed your post... who the hell is David Hicks ???

.

.

 

Hicks trained with the Taliban in Afghanistan, and never shot anyone.

 

Been in gitmo so long he's starting to grow roots.

[Quarky1.0]

...an australian citizen stuck in legal limbo-guantanamo bay.

 

he has just managed to gain british citizenship (his mother-english).....

blair got british citizens out of there years ago....reckons it's an illegal

hellhole

 

David Hicks is a traitor to Australia, I'm an australian and I think he should be executed as a traitor, he was found not only in the company of the Taliban, but he was fighting with them, against Nato forces and there is a distinct difference between the forces that liberated Afganistan and the USA who invaded Iraq. He not only fought with the Taliban, but he was also trained by Bin Laden's arse muchers brigade, ie al-Qaeda, but the lovely pitty poor me white wash that is now making Mr Hicks out to be a poor abused victim is laughable, he is not a victim and one of the reasons why he is still locked up, is because he was higher up in the Taliban and al-Qaeda than you or I know.

 

He is a fucking traitor and should never see australia soil again, other than to be burried in it.

[Gallytuck]

David Hicks is a traitor to Australia, I'm an australian and I think he should be executed as a traitor, he was found not only in the company of the Taliban, but he was fighting with them, against Nato forces and there is a distinct difference between the forces that liberated Afganistan and the USA who invaded Iraq. He not only fought with the Taliban, but he was also trained by Bin Laden's arse muchers brigade, ie al-Qaeda, but the lovely pitty poor me white wash that is now making Mr Hicks out to be a poor abused victim is laughable, he is not a victim and one of the reasons why he is still locked up, is because he was higher up in the Taliban and al-Qaeda than you or I know.

 

He is a fucking traitor and should never see australia soil again, other than to be burried in it.

 

Is Australia not a free nation? Since when is it illegal in the free world to support what you feel is right?

 

Treason is the deliberate act of betraying one's nation. Now, selling off your nation's assets or sabotaging your nation's critical trade deals would be a great case for treason.

 

There's a catch-22. My nation gives me the right to decide what is true and just in life and the freedom to publicly support those who share my views. The good guys and bad guys are determined by your perspective. I might not agree with my nation's political leaders but that does not make me a traitor. Conditional freedom is not freedom at all.

 

I'm a free-thinking human being first and a Canadian citizen second.

[Quarky1.0]

Is Australia not a free nation? Since when is it illegal in the free world to support what you feel is right?

 

Treason is the deliberate act of betraying one's nation. Now, selling off your nation's assets or sabotaging your nation's critical trade deals would be a great case for treason.

 

There's a catch-22. My nation gives me the right to decide what is true and just in life and the freedom to publicly support those who share my views. The good guys and bad guys are determined by your perspective. I might not agree with my nation's political leaders but that does not make me a traitor. Conditional freedom is not freedom at all.

 

I'm a free-thinking human being first and a Canadian citizen second.

 

Under the articals of war it is treason to aid the enemy, that's why spying and passing on information to the enemy is classified as treason. The underlying goal of the Taliban and al-Qaeda is to over throw democracy and install a world wide islamic republic, I would also like to point out, that under the Islamic law, as a woman your sole purpose in life is to marry and pump out as many children as you can. al-Qaeda wish to use the principles of freedom or speach to undermine that same freedom of speach. We have had a number of Islamic extremist in Australia openly calling for the overthrow of the australian government and the installation of an islamic government.

I for one believe that anyone should have the right to practice what ever half arse religion they want, however I draw the line when I'm expected to follow them and that is what they want. If you don't believe me have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

http://www.alqaedatoday.com/

These people want to remove you right to question.

But back to Mr Hicks, he is a traitor, under the articals of war he has aided, fought with, trained with and went out of his way to be with them, might I also remind you the Nato action in Afghanistan was done with the approval of the UN and the security council.

[hugo]

It is time to renounce the Geneva accord and all treaties governing our actions to non-citizens of the USA.

[builder]

Is Australia not a free nation? Since when is it illegal in the free world to support what you feel is right?

 

Treason is the deliberate act of betraying one's nation. Now, selling off your nation's assets or sabotaging your nation's critical trade deals would be a great case for treason.

 

There's a catch-22. My nation gives me the right to decide what is true and just in life and the freedom to publicly support those who share my views. The good guys and bad guys are determined by your perspective. I might not agree with my nation's political leaders but that does not make me a traitor. Conditional freedom is not freedom at all.

 

I'm a free-thinking human being first and a Canadian citizen second.

 

Hear hear. The latest media diversion shows the Australian gov was well aware that bribes totally hundreds of millions of dollars to Saddam Hussein were ensuring our ongoing sale of wheat to Iraq.

 

Nobody can prove Hicks killed anyone, let alone funded the Taliban.

[Gallytuck]

Under the articals of war it is treason to aid the enemy' date=' that's why spying and passing on information to the enemy is classified as treason. [/quote']

 

Australia, to the best of my knowledge, has yet to officially declare war on either Iraq or Afghanistan. They've declared a joint war on "terror", which is a subjective noun, not a nation of peoples.

 

... I would also like to point out' date=' that under the Islamic law, as a woman your sole purpose in life is to marry and pump out as many children as you can.[/quote']

 

Irrelevent. Classic media tactic.

 

al-Qaeda wish to use the principles of freedom or speach to undermine that same freedom of speach.

 

My own government is doing more to curb my freedom of speech than the Taliban has the desire to put forth such an effort. Our governments are using the Taliban to strip us of our freedom, not the other way around.

 

We have had a number of Islamic extremist in Australia openly calling for the overthrow of the australian government and the installation of an islamic government.

 

I give Australians a lot more credit than to allow something that fucked-up to occur.

 

http://www.thmc.org/inscribe.html

 

People who are into that sort of thing have effectively restricted your right to question for decades now.

 

Mr. Hicks has the right, as a human being, to support whichever side he sees fit. We don't have much input as to where we'd like to be born. Australian citizen or not, he has the prerogative to make his own decisions. If his views conflict with those of the nation in which he resides, tough shit Australia.

[stayhuman]

David Hicks is a traitor to Australia, I'm an australian and I think he should be executed as a traitor, he was found not only in the company of the Taliban, but he was fighting with them, against Nato forces and there is a distinct difference between the forces that liberated Afganistan and the USA who invaded Iraq. He not only fought with the Taliban, but he was also trained by Bin Laden's arse muchers brigade, ie al-Qaeda, but the lovely pitty poor me white wash that is now making Mr Hicks out to be a poor abused victim is laughable, he is not a victim and one of the reasons why he is still locked up, is because he was higher up in the Taliban and al-Qaeda than you or I know.

 

He is a fucking traitor and should never see australia soil again, other than to be burried in it.

 

So, using your logic, anyone involved in the AWB bribery scandal should be executed as well.......and what about the incompetent government officials that allowed it to happen?

......and if that goes right to the top, then downer, vaile and howard should be executed?

[Quarky1.0]

Australia, to the best of my knowledge, has yet to officially declare war on either Iraq or Afghanistan. They've declared a joint war on "terror", which is a subjective noun, not a nation of peoples.

 

Irrelevent. Classic media tactic.

 

My own government is doing more to curb my freedom of speech than the Taliban has the desire to put forth such an effort. Our governments are using the Taliban to strip us of our freedom, not the other way around.

 

I give Australians a lot more credit than to allow something that fucked-up to occur.

 

http://www.thmc.org/inscribe.html

 

People who are into that sort of thing have effectively restricted your right to question for decades now.

 

Mr. Hicks has the right, as a human being, to support whichever side he sees fit. We don't have much input as to where we'd like to be born. Australian citizen or not, he has the prerogative to make his own decisions. If his views conflict with those of the nation in which he resides, tough shit Australia.

 

 

Firstly the war in Afghanistan was a police action ordered by the UN, so the UN declared war on the Taliban, the war in Iraq is another matter all together

Have you actually read up on the sharia law? Under this system you are owned by your husband, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan women weren't allowed to work, get an education, had no medical care and if something happened to there husband, they were destitute. Under strict Sharia Law you have no rights, other than that of to be owned by your husband.

 

So under your logic, the racist right wing neo Nazis or worse the Pedophile community has as much right to practice there ideology as any other extremists? No? Because you find it abhorrent! I find the concept of a religious doctrined society in Australia as repulsive as another form of extremist, be it right wing, left wing or religious.

 

I do not have a problem with Hicks being a Muslim, I do not have a problem with him fighting in the Balkan war, however I do have a problem with him supporting Islamic extremists, or another extremist ideology, I would feel the same way if he was supporting the Christian extremists, Jewish extremists or another half arse fucked up religion.

 

The core of this is simple, he supported the people who flew two fucking planes into the world trade center and under Islamic law anyone connected to either the Taliban or al-Qaeda are as equally guilty of the crime, under there religion is it not a crime to fight and kill the invaders, but to attack the innocent is a crime and is punishable by one thing and one thing only, death.

Hicks is a murderer under the definitions of his religion and under Sharia law should be stoned to death.

[Quarky1.0]

So, using your logic, anyone involved in the AWB bribery scandal should be executed as well.......and what about the incompetent government officials that allowed it to happen?

......and if that goes right to the top, then downer, vaile and howard should be executed?

 

 

Hell Yeah, AWB are traitors, they not only screwed the UN, but also Australia, they should be put to death, I also think the same should be done for government officials who are corrupt... Incompetent? well that's another story, stupid is as stupid does and that is what most of the howard government is.

[Quarky1.0]

It is time to renounce the Geneva accord and all treaties governing our actions to non-citizens of the USA.

 

Are you on drugs?

[hugo]

Are you on drugs?

 

I'm not the one seeing space aliens.

[Gallytuck]

Firstly the war in Afghanistan was a police action ordered by the UN, so the UN declared war on the Taliban, the war in Iraq is another matter all together

 

You said it.

 

Have you actually read up on the sharia law? Under this system you are owned by your husband, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan women weren't allowed to work, get an education, had no medical care and if something happened to there husband, they were destitute. Under strict Sharia Law you have no rights, other than that of to be owned by your husband.

 

It's not that I don't agree with you. This subject belongs in another post.

 

So under your logic, the racist right wing neo Nazis or worse the Pedophile community has as much right to practice there ideology as any other extremists?

 

 

I don't even want to know how you came to that conclusion. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

I do not have a problem with Hicks being a Muslim, I do not have a problem with him fighting in the Balkan war

 

Oh, so you don't have a problem if he goes out and kills people somewhere far away from your country but if he supported a militant group who would have little to no interest in Australia if they hadn't sent any troops it's deplorable?

 

Look, Australia is a really special place in the world...to Australians. We see it as a pricey vacation destination and as a source of gorgeous women with amazing accents. Okay, so Australia is important. But in the overall world the cool kids are the U.S., a lot of Europe, and some Asian nations. In other words, there's a reason 911 didn't occur at the Sydney Opera House. Or Parliament Hill. Or the Statue of Christ in Rio.

 

Also, you should really lay off the caffeine. Two-thirds of Australia is christian and a quarter of the population do not claim to hold any religious beliefs. Last I checked you guys had a democratic government.

 

The core of this is simple, he supported the people who flew two fucking planes into the world trade center

 

Depends who you ask.

 

under there religion is it not a crime to fight and kill the invaders, but to attack the innocent is a crime and is punishable by one thing and one thing only, death.

 

Nay. Islam, in fact, allows for killing. It's pretty strict in definition and death of the enemy is discouraged if possible, but you are incorrect to say that murder, whether in war or as a private act, is forbidden.

 

"Those who readily fight in the cause of God are those who forsake this world in favor of the Hereafter. Whoever fights in the cause of God, then gets killed, or attains victory, we will surely grant him a great recompense."

Qur'an 4:74

[stayhuman]

Firstly the war in Afghanistan was a police action ordered by the UN, so the UN declared war on the Taliban, the war in Iraq is another matter all together

Have you actually read up on the sharia law? Under this system you are owned by your husband, when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan women weren't allowed to work, get an education, had no medical care and if something happened to there husband, they were destitute. Under strict Sharia Law you have no rights, other than that of to be owned by your husband.

 

So under your logic, the racist right wing neo Nazis or worse the Pedophile community has as much right to practice there ideology as any other extremists? No? Because you find it abhorrent! I find the concept of a religious doctrined society in Australia as repulsive as another form of extremist, be it right wing, left wing or religious.

 

I do not have a problem with Hicks being a Muslim, I do not have a problem with him fighting in the Balkan war, however I do have a problem with him supporting Islamic extremists, or another extremist ideology, I would feel the same way if he was supporting the Christian extremists, Jewish extremists or another half arse fucked up religion.

 

The core of this is simple, he supported the people who flew two fucking planes into the world trade center and under Islamic law anyone connected to either the Taliban or al-Qaeda are as equally guilty of the crime, under there religion is it not a crime to fight and kill the invaders, but to attack the innocent is a crime and is punishable by one thing and one thing only, death.

Hicks is a murderer under the definitions of his religion and under Sharia law should be stoned to death.

 

I guess you know that a US oil company, Unocal, supported the Taliban too. Negotiations over a certain pipeline.

[builder]

If you are a European and in any way shape or form support Islam or the concept of Eur-Abia or have some how convinced yourself that the troubles in France or Antwerp or a dozen other European cities is something other then the result of a hostile unassimilated Arab and African immigrant population that has openly stated time and time again that they do not and will not become part of the larger European culture you are insane, there are “No patrol” areas in many European cities because the police cars get trashed and the officers shot at. They are feeding off of your social system and using the freedoms and rights your forefathers and relatives bleed all over Europe for centuries to obtain against you.

 

Europe is in a bad way and will get worse.

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

Hicks is a traitor by definition, war or no war;

 

Hicks joined the Taliban at a time when they were not only being funded by the CIA, but also encouraged by the US gov in the fictional "crackdown" on the growing of opium. In other words, a US ally, which makes Hicks an ally.

 

 

No citizen will take up arms or pledge allegiance to any foreign power or interfere with the governance of any sovereign nation, that is the role of government.

 

Then the whole French Foreign Legion are terrorists.

 

The Islamic radicals are not in a recognized army representing a recognized government, they are terrorists, the Geneva convention does not apply, and if it does apply, if you want to spin words, then they all fall under UCMJ and war powers acts, which means they can be held until the resolution of the war, and they are not initialed to legal representation like they were a civilian or something.

 

The Taliban were the recognised government of Afghanistan. That makes the Taliban armed forces a recognised military organisation, fully under the Geneva convention, whether or not an invading force switches hats from supporter/provider, to invader/usurper.

 

I just love how all the side talking idiots like to mix and match things to fit their need. What I don’t understand is why the Military or the Government just doesn’t lay it all on the line for the idiots.

 

I'm stating facts. Unfortunately press releases from the US gov, particularly on sensitive issues like invasion, rarely cover the facts, both present and historical.

 

And you Europeans, best take a look in your own back yard you have some rabid dogs that need tending, how long do you think just burning cars and buildings will keep them pacified. in the end we will all be pulling together to save our societies and culture. its going to get way more messy then any of us can comprehend at this point.

 

I agree, but I also know that political correctness, and idiotic posturing about not inciting others is mostly to blame. Not to forget the pussification of the west, the dumbing down of the populace, and the stultification of the popular media sources; and none of that is the fault of radical Islam.

 

 

 

[builder]

Hicks as an Australian citizen has the right to immigrate to Afghanistan and relinquish his Australian citizenship. But, as an Australian citizen he is not free to go and pledge his elegance to a foreign power, and if Australian law is anything like US law he is also not free to go to another country and take up arms in support of or opposition of a foreign power. In that context CIA funding or not, war or no war, Hicks is a criminal.

 

In that context, you are right. But under Australian law, Hicks is nothing other than a dissident Muslim. Under South Afrikaan law, he is a mercenary fighter. Under British law, he is a political prisoner. That is why his legal team tried to gain British citizenship, because all such British citizens caught up in exactly the same circumstances as Hicks, are now back home in England.

 

Not following this one. The legion is full of soldiers that have relinquished their country of origin citizenship, and represent a legitimate military of a legitimate government/country, that uses them under governmental resolution etc..

 

Hicks was still representing a legitimate military organisation, either as a mercenary, or as a Muslim. At the time of his joining the Taliban, that government was an American ally.

 

Agreed. And under that stipulation Hicks can be held as a POW for the duration of the war, and is not entitled to the civilian legal system. In other words Hicks will remain a POW for as long as it takes to win the war on terror.

 

That indicates that Hicks, and anyone else caught up in this legal nightmare will never see the light of day. The ensuing invasion of Iran will stir up so much unrest and activity within the Muslim camp, that the war on terror may just see the end of all of us.

 

Hicks is a political prisoner, muslim dissident, Al Quaeda translator, Taliban trainer, and Australian national. He has killed nobody. You say his crimes amount to POW status. What were his crimes? Complicity? The CIA are also complicit, as is the US government, including the congress that voted to support the Taliban, create Al Quaeda, and ignore warnings from Mossad et al about the impending problems that the CIA created.

 

I was commenting more on why the Government just doesn’t explain that the prisoners are POW’s and what that means. Seems that would end all the legal shenanigans and media shenanigans.

 

The media shenanigans are orchestrated red herrings. The legal wranglings tie up the courts, giving real criminals more time to create a defense. David Hicks is a twisted Muslim soul, granted, but just as you and I would expect, he deserves a hearing and a resolution.

 

Agreed, however there is a fair amount of money and lobbying involved.

 

Agreed.

[hugo]

 

I agree, but I also know that political correctness, and idiotic posturing about not inciting others is mostly to blame. Not to forget the pussification of the west, the dumbing down of the populace, and the stultification of the popular media sources; and none of that is the fault of radical Islam.

 

[/size]

 

Secular humanism and Fabian socialism must take the blame for those developments.

[builder]

Secular humanism and Fabian socialism must take the blame for those developments.

 

Yes and yes, but you are tossing another red herring into the morass.

 

Do you think that Hicks is a political prisoner, or a war criminal?

[hugo]

Yes and yes, but you are tossing another red herring into the morass.

 

Do you think that Hicks is a political prisoner, or a war criminal?

 

 

I think he is basically a POW.

[builder]

I think he is basically a POW.

 

Then he should be tried as such. Read the last paragraph of this quote first.

 

 

Hicks's trial was initially set for January 10, 2005. His U.S. Army appointed counsel is Major Michael Mori. In February the Hicks family lawyer, Stephen Kenny, who had been representing Hicks in Australia without charge since 2002, was dismissed from the defence team.

 

Hicks's trial was delayed in November 2004 when the US Federal Court ruled that Commissions were neither competent nor lawful. In July 2005, however, the US appeals court ruled that the trial of "Unlawful Combatants" did not come under the Geneva Convention, and that they could be tried by a military tribunal.[4] In September it was announced that Hicks's trial would begin on 18 November.[5]

 

In mid-February 2005, Jumana Musa, Amnesty International's legal observer at Guantanamo Bay, visited Australia to speak to Attorney-General Philip Ruddock (who is a member of Amnesty) about the military commissions. The Sydney Morning Herald quoted Musa as stating that Australia is, "the only country that seems to have come out and said that the idea of trying somebody, their own citizen, before this process might be OK, and I think that should be a concern to anybody."

 

In July 2005 the U.S. appeals court accepted the prosecution claim that because "the President of the United States issued a memorandum in which he determined that none of the provisions of the Geneva Conventions "apply to our conflict with al-Qaeda in Afghanistan or elsewhere throughout the world" that Hicks, among others, could be tried by a military tribunal.[6]

Full Story here

 

 

None of the provisions of the Geneva Convention apply?? Why not??

 

Al Quaeda was established by the CIA in the cold war. The Taliban were funded and directed by the CIA.

 

Come on Hugo. Tell me your slant on the Patriot act.

[Gallytuck]

 

Al Quaeda was established by the CIA in the cold war. The Taliban were funded and directed by the CIA.

 

 

We're not allowed to talk about that.

 

Or Ford. Or granddaddy Bush.

 

If U.S. troops in Iraq fall under attack by chemical weapons, would members of the U.S. government be arrested and charged with treason?