Fair Go for David Hicks

[Gallytuck]

And do you have anything of relevance to add or just satisfied to drop your 2 cents in?

 

I'd like to ask you the same thing here. If you don't get it, politely ask for elaboration. If you're simply not interested, move along.

[builder]

This is exactly my point. What is this pick the most favorable law offered by whatever country and claim to be a citizen of that country. Pick and chose between what you want to be called, POW, Political prisoner, Conscientious Objector, Mercenary etc

[Gallytuck]

Al Quaeda was established by the CIA in the cold war. The Taliban were funded and directed by the CIA.

 

We're not allowed to talk about that.

 

Or Ford. Or granddaddy Bush.

 

Builder took a beat away from your "tempo" first and I liked that direction. There's the sequence so it's easier for you to follow.

 

If U.S. troops in Iraq fall under attack by chemical weapons, would members of the U.S. government be arrested and charged with treason?

 

This is a bit vague, I suppose. I should have dumbed it down a lot considering you're active in this post.

 

It's not so much what Mr. Hicks did or did not do so much as it is an example for us all to see. You could very well one day find yourself in Mr. Hicks shoes for much less cause. Unless you're a member of the government, that is. It seems like politicians are exempt.

 

Sure, this is a case unique to Mr. Hicks at the moment. But learning about his story and seeing what he's been accused of and then seeing the punishment dealt is enough to put the thought in the back of our minds. It's like a lawyer who makes some ridiculous and unsupported lead to a witness knowing full well it will be successfully objected but doing it with the purpose of getting the concept into the minds of the jury members. "This is what happens if you try something like this."

 

And yes, my post count is so very precious to me.

[Quarky1.0]

Al Quaeda was not only established by the CIA to fight the Russian invasion of Afghanistan during the cold war, it was also trained by them and equipped by the CIA, also during the cold war Osama bin Laden was the darling of the CIA.

 

The Taliban were an off shoot of the Mujaheddin who were the resistance fighters who helped kick the soviets out of Afghanistan, during the cold war the Taliban were part of the Mujaheddin, they only broke off after the Russians left and Afghanistan descended into civil war. Al Quaeda split from the CIA and joined forces with the Taliban who eventually took control of a the country, but never successfully defeated the remains of the Mujaheddin.

 

Since the UN action in Afghanistan the Mujaheddin have taken over most of the country, where the Taliban have been driven into the mountains on the border with Pakistan, where they continue to stake from, jumping the border when ever it get hairy for them.

 

Back to my points about Hicks, he is a traitor in ever sense of the word and didn't join the Taliban until they had started the civil war in Afghanistan. He was captured after a fire fight, which engaged coalition troops against Taliban fighters, so he is also a POW, which means if he is not found guilty of treason, then he is still a POW and should not see freedom until the war on Islamic extremism has been won.

[builder]

 

<snips old-hat news>

 

Back to my points about Hicks, he is a traitor in ever sense of the word and didn't join the Taliban until they had started the civil war in Afghanistan. He was captured after a fire fight, which engaged coalition troops against Taliban fighters, so he is also a POW, which means if he is not found guilty of treason, then he is still a POW and should not see freedom until the war on Islamic extremism has been won.

 

Point 1. Hicks has not been found to have shot or killed anyone.

 

Point 2. Hicks is an Australian citizen. Afghanistan and Australia were not at war. How does that amount to treason, and which country was he fighting with in this imaginary act of treason?

 

Point 3. Australia joined a Coalition. They did not declare war against anyone.

 

Point 4. Laws were created to veto the Geneva convention. Laws were also created to protect the US administration from being classed as war criminals for illegally invading a soveriegn nation over false information.

[hugo]

None of the provisions of the Geneva Convention apply?? Why not?? Because the 800 lb gorilla does what it wants.

 

Al Quaeda was established by the CIA in the cold war. The Taliban were funded and directed by the CIA.

 

That was the Cold War. New war, new allies and enemies.

 

Come on Hugo. Tell me your slant on the Patriot act.

 

Actually, rather mild compared to the actions of FDR and Lincoln, widely regarded as two of our greatest Presidents.

[Gallytuck]

Please, dumb it all down for me Obi-wan

 

I like it when you call me Obi-wan.

 

Unless you are going to travel to another country, swear allegiance to its revolution, government or sect, denounce your own country and its allies, and then engage in open armed hostility against your own country or one of its allies, that results in an attack that destroys a significant portion of a city and causes thousands of deaths, I doubt you will find yourself in a similar situation as Mr. Hicks.

 

It's not like it'd be the first time.

[builder]

It seems impractical to me, that every combatant,(whatever they get labeled) gets a host of lawyers and a trial.

 

Hicks's family has funded his legal defence, and are likely to bankrupt themselves in the effort. The Australian government has wiped him. They would prefer to defend drug smugglers in Malaysia or Indonesia.

 

Hicks was apprehended in Afghanistan, the fact he is an Australian citizen does not matter, because he is being held by the Americans in a time of war, because he was with the enemy.

 

He was also in the Balkans (too late to be effective). If he was to be treated summarily as an Afghani, he would be dead under a pile of sand now. Why is he being held, and after x amount of time, if he was being interrogated, what could he possibly have to say that would not have already been dragged out of him?

 

Hicks was captured as a POW, to try and prove every soldiers kill rate in a time of war is absurd. It does not matter if he actually killed anyone or not, if he carried one round of ammo, one bottle of water or cooked one can of food that assisted the enemy he was engaged in active support of the enemy in a time of war and subject to indefinite detention until said war is concluded, win or lose.

 

I understand your POV. I cannot understand why he is not processed and serving time now. The war on terror is a political furphy. It will never end.

 

This is not unusual, the US supported many so-so dictators during the cold war, it is a case of FIFO (first in, first out) the US saw the USSR as the larger threat at the time and chose to deal with questionable characters, dictators and even mad-men, down the road they new they would ultimately have to deal with the many henchman they supported, and following FIFO they are in the process of doing just that, not so neat and clean, maybe even not so moral but was there another tactic that would have gotten the desired results? Messy but necessary at the time.

 

And my perception points to the possibility that if the US had stayed in Afghanistan post Cold War success, of which Al Quaeda played a crucial bit part, the civil war would not have happened.

 

If the US actually spearheads any kind of attack on Iran, I will have to bow to any and all foreign critics, it would be absolutely militarily disastrous and unconditionally prove that the government is comprised of total idiots who should all be shot on sight.

 

I think it's only a matter of time. I really hope that diplomacy and tact come to the fore. I won't be holding my breath on that one.

 

More aggressive on the domestic front, less engaged in world events. Rumsfeld has gutted the military, with everything going on in the world US base closings have continued unabated, even accelerated, Troop levels have declined, units are still being deactivated. The Air-wing once stationed at Ft. Bragg (Pope air force base, home of SF, 82nd and a few other rapid deployment units has been dismantled. The military is getting smaller in all its branches.

 

Now that's something I didn't know.

 

 

Rumsfeld is no friend to the military, the military leadership is watching there resources and manpower being chipped away based on outdated cold war agreements in the face of rising world hostility against the US. But that

[builder]

Finally a decent thread.

 

don

[Quarky1.0]

Point 1. Hicks has not been found to have shot or killed anyone.

 

Point 2. Hicks is an Australian citizen. Afghanistan and Australia were not at war. How does that amount to treason, and which country was he fighting with in this imaginary act of treason?

 

Point 3. Australia joined a Coalition. They did not declare war against anyone.

 

Point 4. Laws were created to veto the Geneva convention. Laws were also created to protect the US administration from being classed as war criminals for illegally invading a soveriegn nation over false information.

 

Point 1: Under the laws of engagement an enemy combatant is someone who is fighting with the enemy, if you pick up a gun, you are classified as an enemy combatant. Thus Hicks is an enemy combatant and since his capture should be classified as a POW.

 

Point 2: The fact that Hicks is an Australian citizen makes him a traitor, because he took up arms and fought against the coalition forces.

 

Point 3: Yes Australia joined the coalition, so did England, Germany, France, Finland and a number of other nations. The UN, through the security council ordered the invasion of Afghanistan, thus the UN declared war on the Taliban.

 

Point 4: The above laws you are talking about were created when the USA invaded Iraq and not Afghanistan, the war in Afghanistan has the backing of the UN, where as the war in Iraq is illegal and doesn

[builder]

<snipped repetitive shit>

 

Australia being on the above nations in that coalition he is classified as an enemy combatant and should be treated as such, he is a POW and should remain imprisoned for the duration of the conflict in Afghanistan, and Islamic extremists persists. However that said, Hicks should be given a trial, have his day in court and sentenced accordingly under the guide lines established under the Geneva convention.

 

The war on terror will never be over. That is the PNAC plan. The Geneva convention no longer applies under the rules of engagement, because the US gov has conveniently placed anyone in this war on the list of terrorists, meaning they are not combatants. They are terrorists. How fucking convenient. Let's not talk about how shit-scared the US admin got when the possibility of them being tried as war criminals was mooted.

 

Hicks should be given a fair trial, and he won't get one in the US under the current dictatorship.

[Quarky1.0]

The war on terror will never be over. That is the PNAC plan. The Geneva convention no longer applies under the rules of engagement, because the US gov has conveniently placed anyone in this war on the list of terrorists, meaning they are not combatants. They are terrorists. How fucking convenient. Let's not talk about how shit-scared the US admin got when the possibility of them being tried as war criminals was mooted.

 

Hicks should be given a fair trial, and he won't get one in the US under the current dictatorship.

 

I agree, the US governement is criminal for the war in Iraq and you have made a very valid point on how they have conveniently placed anyone who is fighting in this war on the terrorist list. But my point is this, they should be classified as POW's, they're not terrorists because the Taliban didn't take part directly in the 9-11 attacks.

[Gallytuck]

At least there's evidence that Mr. Hicks had ties to the Taliban. What about those poor fuckers who've been held for years in Guantanamo without such a controversial past?

[hugo]

At least there's evidence that Mr. Hicks had ties to the Taliban. What about those poor fuckers who've been held for years in Guantanamo without such a controversial past?

 

Sucks to be them.

[builder]

Sucks to be them.

 

And pretty soon it will suck to be American.

 

Oh, so sorry....lt already does suck.

[Gallytuck]

And pretty soon it will suck to be American.

 

Oh, so sorry....lt already does suck.

 

So long as you have women who also suck so that you can both share that sucky state of living in a non-co-habitating fashion then it will be okay. If any of the women here have a problem with that statement then stop doing it.

[builder]

So long as you have women who also suck so that you can both share that sucky state of living in a non-co-habitating fashion then it will be okay. If any of the women here have a problem with that statement then stop doing it.

 

Now I thought my last post was bad..

 

I'm liberated from stupidity by that crock of shit you call a post.

[builder]

I agree' date=' the US governement is criminal for the war in Iraq and you have made a very valid point on how they have conveniently placed anyone who is fighting in this war on the terrorist list. But my point is this, they should be classified as POW's, they're not terrorists because the Taliban didn't take part directly in the 9-11 attacks.[/quote']

 

Exactly. And neither did Saddam, but we won't go there.

 

The patriot act reeks of stalinism, but apparently it's jacobism. What's a poor boy to do?

[Gallytuck]

Now I thought my last post was bad..

 

I'm liberated from stupidity by that crock of shit you call a post.

 

Your redemption through me. It is why I have come, to lift from you your burden of stupidity. Although, you have been doing rather well lately.

 

Do you feel better now that it's off your chest?

[builder]

The country is under occupation is the key term I would say. Only after the Afgani Government is stabilized and the Islamic threat in general has been illuminated, diminished or taken out of the equation will Mr. Hicks have any chance at freedom. Modern warfare is not cut and dried with lines of battle etc.. and a clear force on force battle front.

 

I wish it were, but with such disparity in both numbers and technological superiority, the underdogs are resorting to tactics that turn a simple political overthrow into a drawn-out political situation of uncertain parameters and cloudy outcomes.

 

None of it.

Then place him under house arrest, or a smart gov would electronically tag him, and track him as he travels, perhaps turning up information and contacts previously unknown.

 

Gitmo is a media circus, you could find worse conditions in any federal, State or county prison and if you want something really horrible go check out a Mexican prison, now that

[snafu]

He took up arms against his country. Plain and simple. I don

[Gallytuck]

You may continue to have US tax liability even if you lose US nationality. Address questions on this topic to the IRS

 

 

You're shitting me.

[TerroristHater]

Nope that