Guest Captain Compassion Posted July 17, 2007 Posted July 17, 2007 Irritation grows over taxes http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece Norwegians have long accepted high taxes to finance their social welfare state, but a new survey indicates rising dissatisfaction and, in some cases, outright hatred of some taxes that are viewed as way too high and unfair. An-Margritt Hortman of Oslo, photographed outside a real estate brokerage, is among those upset over Norway's tax on real estate sales. Ingrid Danielsen (left) thinks Norwegians have to pay way too much for their cars, their fuel and their homes, because of taxes. Norwegians are among the most heavily taxed people in the world, and that in turn has made Norway one of the most expensive countries in which to live. Most accept the taxes they're ordered to pay on income and even net worth and property, but growing numbers are publicly complaining about sky-high taxes on everything from cars to fuel to consumer goods. Norwegians differentiate between skatter (taxes) and avgifter (duties, fees or user taxes) and the latter is the most hated. They're what causes a glass of house wine at an Oslo restaurant to cost the equivalent of nearly USD 16, or a gallon of gas to cost nearly USD 9 at current exchange rates. "It's clear that taxes are much too high in oil-rich Norway," Oslo resident Gro Pettersen told newspaper Aftenposten. "It's sick!" The taxes placed on new cars, which can more than double the price of the car itself, are another bone of contention, even though most Norwegians support measures to protect the environment. "The car tax is much too high, but so are most all the other avgifter also," said Ernst Bendiksen of the northern city of Vads Quote
Guest Amanda Williams Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: > Irritation grows over taxes > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece > Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... WOW... Imagine that eh? How can we live without such insightfull information??? But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting -- AW <small but dangerous> Quote
Guest Neolibertarian Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 In article <rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com>, Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote: > Irritation grows over taxes > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece > > Norwegians have long accepted high taxes to finance their social > welfare state, but a new survey indicates rising dissatisfaction and, > in some cases, outright hatred of some taxes that are viewed as way > too high and unfair. > > An-Margritt Hortman of Oslo, photographed outside a real estate > brokerage, is among those upset over Norway's tax on real estate > sales. > > Ingrid Danielsen (left) thinks Norwegians have to pay way too much for > their cars, their fuel and their homes, because of taxes. > > Norwegians are among the most heavily taxed people in the world, and > that in turn has made Norway one of the most expensive countries in > which to live. Most accept the taxes they're ordered to pay on income > and even net worth and property, but growing numbers are publicly > complaining about sky-high taxes on everything from cars to fuel to > consumer goods. > > Norwegians differentiate between skatter (taxes) and avgifter (duties, > fees or user taxes) and the latter is the most hated. They're what > causes a glass of house wine at an Oslo restaurant to cost the > equivalent of nearly USD 16, or a gallon of gas to cost nearly USD 9 > at current exchange rates. > > "It's clear that taxes are much too high in oil-rich Norway," Oslo > resident Gro Pettersen told newspaper Aftenposten. "It's sick!" > > The taxes placed on new cars, which can more than double the price of > the car itself, are another bone of contention, even though most > Norwegians support measures to protect the environment. "The car tax > is much too high, but so are most all the other avgifter also," said > Ernst Bendiksen of the northern city of Vads Quote
Guest Neolibertarian Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 In article <Xns9970CD7925C09fubar@63.218.45.252>, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: > Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in > news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: > > > Irritation grows over taxes > > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece > > > > Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's > COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... > > WOW... Imagine that eh? > > How can we live without such insightfull information??? > > But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 > Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. > > Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? > > Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting That high taxes keep an economy flat. -- NeoLibertarian "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" ---Ronald Reagan Quote
Guest SgtMinor Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Neolibertarian wrote: > In article <Xns9970CD7925C09fubar@63.218.45.252>, > Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: > > >>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: >> >> >>>Irritation grows over taxes >>>http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >>> >> >>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's >>COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... >> >>WOW... Imagine that eh? >> >>How can we live without such insightfull information??? >> >>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 >>Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. >> >>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? >> >>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting > > > That high taxes keep an economy flat. > > What does large deficit spending do for economic growth? What would a balanced budget do? And why do we want growth in the first place, i.e. what's so bad about a flat economy? Quote
Guest Captain Compassion Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 On 18 Jul 2007 00:07:34 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: > >> Irritation grows over taxes >> http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >> > >Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's >COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... > I was under the impression that there were no "riechtard" organizations in progressive Norway. >WOW... Imagine that eh? > >How can we live without such insightfull information??? > >But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 >Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. > >Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? > Only to point out that paradise is expensive. >Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting Taxing food at 13% talk about your regressive taxes. -- There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their cook fires. -- Captain Compassion. Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS Joseph R. Darancette daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net Quote
Guest Neolibertarian Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 In article <Lp-dnTb5HYGa7gDbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com>, SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: > Neolibertarian wrote: > > > In article <Xns9970CD7925C09fubar@63.218.45.252>, > > Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: > > > > > >>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in > >>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: > >> > >> > >>>Irritation grows over taxes > >>>http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece > >>> > >> > >>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's > >>COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... > >> > >>WOW... Imagine that eh? > >> > >>How can we live without such insightfull information??? > >> > >>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 > >>Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. > >> > >>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? > >> > >>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting > > > > > > That high taxes keep an economy flat. > > > > > > What does large deficit spending do for economic growth? What would a > balanced budget do? And why do we want growth in the first place, i.e. > what's so bad about a flat economy? Are you rich enough? -- NeoLibertarian "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" ---Ronald Reagan Quote
Guest Roger Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 "Amanda Williams" <pms@fu.com> wrote in message news:Xns9970CD7925C09fubar@63.218.45.252... > Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in > news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: > >> Irritation grows over taxes >> http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >> > > Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's > COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... > > WOW... Imagine that eh? > > How can we live without such insightfull information??? > > But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 > Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. > > Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? People think of him as a moron on the topic of global warming. He has vast topics in which he hasn't yet proven his complete and utter lack of understanding. It's assumed. Not yet proven. Oh, and he stole the identity of another poster. He/she/it is completely untrustworthy. > > Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting > > -- > AW > > <small but dangerous> Quote
Guest SgtMinor Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Neolibertarian wrote: > In article <Lp-dnTb5HYGa7gDbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com>, > SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: > > >>Neolibertarian wrote: >> >> >>>In article <Xns9970CD7925C09fubar@63.218.45.252>, >>> Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>>>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Irritation grows over taxes >>>>>http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >>>>> >>>> >>>>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's >>>>COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... >>>> >>>>WOW... Imagine that eh? >>>> >>>>How can we live without such insightfull information??? >>>> >>>>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 >>>>Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. >>>> >>>>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? >>>> >>>>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting >>> >>> >>>That high taxes keep an economy flat. >>> >>> >> >>What does large deficit spending do for economic growth? What would a >>balanced budget do? And why do we want growth in the first place, i.e. >>what's so bad about a flat economy? > > > Are you rich enough? > I take it that you do not have an appropriate response. Quote
Guest Amanda Williams Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in news:f90r93hrp0sbh6tc92n6e0h1lck1jkkvub@4ax.com: > On 18 Jul 2007 00:07:34 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: > >>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: >> >>> Irritation grows over taxes >>> http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >>> >> >>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's >>COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... >> > I was under the impression that there were no "riechtard" > organizations in progressive Norway. > >>WOW... Imagine that eh? >> >>How can we live without such insightfull information??? >> >>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 >>Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. >> >>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? >> > Only to point out that paradise is expensive. > WOW !!! that's REALLY new... we all thought it was FREE... btw, who TF said "Norway" was "paradise" ??? It's full of Norwegians for a start... >>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting > > Taxing food at 13% talk about your regressive taxes. It's a goods and services tax, all taxes on goods and services is regressive, that is why the Deomocratic Party is AGAINST such taxes sparky... You do relaize that if you include all the sales taxes and fees and all the rest of the costs WE pay for necessities (eg Healthcare)that the Norwegians get free or at a greatly reduced cost that we are actually paying MORE in "taxes" than the average Norwegian or Frenchman or Brit or Canadian or ...... You reichtards are way too dumb to be able to grasp that simple fact... Gonzo Funeral Watch: 128 days 10 hours 34 minutes and counting. -- AW <small but dangerous> Quote
Guest Captain Compassion Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 On 18 Jul 2007 14:38:23 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >news:f90r93hrp0sbh6tc92n6e0h1lck1jkkvub@4ax.com: > >> On 18 Jul 2007 00:07:34 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >> >>>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: >>> >>>> Irritation grows over taxes >>>> http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >>>> >>> >>>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's >>>COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... >>> >> I was under the impression that there were no "riechtard" >> organizations in progressive Norway. >> >>>WOW... Imagine that eh? >>> >>>How can we live without such insightfull information??? >>> >>>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 >>>Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. >>> >>>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? >>> >> Only to point out that paradise is expensive. >> > >WOW !!! that's REALLY new... we all thought it was FREE... > >btw, who TF said "Norway" was "paradise" ??? It's full of Norwegians for >a start... > >>>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting >> >> Taxing food at 13% talk about your regressive taxes. > >It's a goods and services tax, all taxes on goods and services is >regressive, that is why the Deomocratic Party is AGAINST such taxes >sparky... > >You do relaize that if you include all the sales taxes and fees and all >the rest of the costs WE pay for necessities (eg Healthcare)that the >Norwegians get free or at a greatly reduced cost that we are actually >paying MORE in "taxes" than the average Norwegian or Frenchman or Brit or >Canadian or ...... > How do you figure that their health care is free? Are the doctors and nurses and other medical service providers altruists and work with no pay? Do the drug companies and the providers of medical equipment donate their products? Is there no cost associated with hospitals and clinics? What's nice about the American system that I am free to pay for only the health care that I need. I'm not forced to pay for yours. >You reichtards are way too dumb to be able to grasp that simple fact... > Not into that freedom of choice stuff eh? >Gonzo Funeral Watch: 128 days 10 hours 34 minutes and counting. -- There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their cook fires. -- Captain Compassion. Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS Joseph R. Darancette daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net Quote
Guest Amanda Williams Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in news:d6as93dpcqheujqp62u8v4qi16h5gt2qse@4ax.com: > On 18 Jul 2007 14:38:23 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: > >>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>news:f90r93hrp0sbh6tc92n6e0h1lck1jkkvub@4ax.com: >> >>> On 18 Jul 2007 00:07:34 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>>>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: >>>> >>>>> Irritation grows over taxes >>>>> http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >>>>> >>>> >>>>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to >>>>everyone's COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying >>>>taxes... >>>> >>> I was under the impression that there were no "riechtard" >>> organizations in progressive Norway. >>> >>>>WOW... Imagine that eh? >>>> >>>>How can we live without such insightfull information??? >>>> >>>>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the >>>>2005 Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is >>>>minor. >>>> >>>>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? >>>> >>> Only to point out that paradise is expensive. >>> >> >>WOW !!! that's REALLY new... we all thought it was FREE... >> >>btw, who TF said "Norway" was "paradise" ??? It's full of Norwegians >>for a start... >> >>>>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting >>> >>> Taxing food at 13% talk about your regressive taxes. >> >>It's a goods and services tax, all taxes on goods and services is >>regressive, that is why the Deomocratic Party is AGAINST such taxes >>sparky... >> >>You do relaize that if you include all the sales taxes and fees and >>all the rest of the costs WE pay for necessities (eg Healthcare)that >>the Norwegians get free or at a greatly reduced cost that we are >>actually paying MORE in "taxes" than the average Norwegian or >>Frenchman or Brit or Canadian or ...... >> > How do you figure that their health care is free? Are the doctors and > nurses and other medical service providers altruists and work with no > pay? Do the drug companies and the providers of medical equipment > donate their products? Is there no cost associated with hospitals and > clinics? > It's "free" at the POINT OF SERVICE you ridiculous moron... > What's nice about the American system that I am free to pay for only > the health care that I need. I'm not forced to pay for yours. > So you don't have Health Insurance then, or Car Insurance or House Insurance or Life Insurance or any other of the gazillion insurance plans for just about everything???? How TF do you think Insurance works??? Every year that you don't have an accident you are paying for those that do... every year your trailer doesn't burn down you are paying for those that do... every year that you don't get sick you are paying for those that do ... I expect you will want to IMMEDIATELY cancel ALL your insurance just on PRINCIPLE, you wouldn't want to FORCE SOMEBODY ELSE to pay if YOUR trailer burns down ???? rotfl.. >>You reichtards are way too dumb to be able to grasp that simple >>fact... >> > Not into that freedom of choice stuff eh? > Do you talk about "freedom of choice" with other essential services like police, fire etc ??? Why TF should THIS ESSENTIAL service be different ??? How much "freedom of choice" do you imagine you have??? Gonzo Funeral Watch: 128 days 12 hours 2 minutes and counting. -- AW <small but dangerous> Quote
Guest Captain Compassion Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 On 18 Jul 2007 16:11:14 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >news:d6as93dpcqheujqp62u8v4qi16h5gt2qse@4ax.com: > >> On 18 Jul 2007 14:38:23 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >> >>>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>>news:f90r93hrp0sbh6tc92n6e0h1lck1jkkvub@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On 18 Jul 2007 00:07:34 GMT, Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>>>>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: >>>>> >>>>>> Irritation grows over taxes >>>>>> http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to >>>>>everyone's COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying >>>>>taxes... >>>>> >>>> I was under the impression that there were no "riechtard" >>>> organizations in progressive Norway. >>>> >>>>>WOW... Imagine that eh? >>>>> >>>>>How can we live without such insightfull information??? >>>>> >>>>>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the >>>>>2005 Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is >>>>>minor. >>>>> >>>>>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? >>>>> >>>> Only to point out that paradise is expensive. >>>> >>> >>>WOW !!! that's REALLY new... we all thought it was FREE... >>> >>>btw, who TF said "Norway" was "paradise" ??? It's full of Norwegians >>>for a start... >>> >>>>>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting >>>> >>>> Taxing food at 13% talk about your regressive taxes. >>> >>>It's a goods and services tax, all taxes on goods and services is >>>regressive, that is why the Deomocratic Party is AGAINST such taxes >>>sparky... >>> >>>You do relaize that if you include all the sales taxes and fees and >>>all the rest of the costs WE pay for necessities (eg Healthcare)that >>>the Norwegians get free or at a greatly reduced cost that we are >>>actually paying MORE in "taxes" than the average Norwegian or >>>Frenchman or Brit or Canadian or ...... >>> >> How do you figure that their health care is free? Are the doctors and >> nurses and other medical service providers altruists and work with no >> pay? Do the drug companies and the providers of medical equipment >> donate their products? Is there no cost associated with hospitals and >> clinics? >> > >It's "free" at the POINT OF SERVICE you ridiculous moron... If a % of someone's income is taken in taxes to pay for health care then it's not free. You are merely deluding yourself. If I pay for health care insurance but are not out of pocket at a doctors visit then is my visit free? > >> What's nice about the American system that I am free to pay for only >> the health care that I need. I'm not forced to pay for yours. >> > >So you don't have Health Insurance then, or Car Insurance or House >Insurance or Life Insurance or any other of the gazillion insurance plans >for just about everything???? > >How TF do you think Insurance works??? > >Every year that you don't have an accident you are paying for those that >do... every year your trailer doesn't burn down you are paying for those >that do... every year that you don't get sick you are paying for those >that do ... > >I expect you will want to IMMEDIATELY cancel ALL your insurance just on >PRINCIPLE, you wouldn't want to FORCE SOMEBODY ELSE to pay if YOUR >trailer burns down ???? > >rotfl.. > The Captain is self insured. and has been for most of his adult life. >>>You reichtards are way too dumb to be able to grasp that simple >>>fact... >>> >> Not into that freedom of choice stuff eh? >> > >Do you talk about "freedom of choice" with other essential services like >police, fire etc ??? > >Why TF should THIS ESSENTIAL service be different ??? > >How much "freedom of choice" do you imagine you have??? > Obviously more than you. >Gonzo Funeral Watch: 128 days 12 hours 2 minutes and counting. -- There may come a time when the CO2 police will wander the earth telling the poor and the dispossed how many dung chips they can put on their cook fires. -- Captain Compassion. Wherever I go it will be well with me, for it was well with me here, not on account of the place, but of my judgments which I shall carry away with me, for no one can deprive me of these; on the contrary, they alone are my property, and cannot be taken away, and to possess them suffices me wherever I am or whatever I do. -- EPICTETUS Joseph R. Darancette daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net Quote
Guest Neolibertarian Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 In article <N42dnRycQoCbcQDbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: > Neolibertarian wrote: > > In article <Lp-dnTb5HYGa7gDbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com>, > > SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: > > > > > >>Neolibertarian wrote: > >> > >> > >>>In article <Xns9970CD7925C09fubar@63.218.45.252>, > >>> Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in > >>>>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>Irritation grows over taxes > >>>>>http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's > >>>>COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... > >>>> > >>>>WOW... Imagine that eh? > >>>> > >>>>How can we live without such insightfull information??? > >>>> > >>>>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 > >>>>Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. > >>>> > >>>>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? > >>>> > >>>>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting > >>> > >>> > >>>That high taxes keep an economy flat. > >>> > >>> > >> > >>What does large deficit spending do for economic growth? What would a > >>balanced budget do? And why do we want growth in the first place, i.e. > >>what's so bad about a flat economy? > > > > > > Are you rich enough? > > > > I take it that you do not have an appropriate response. You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. Demonstrable, this is. -- NeoLibertarian "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" ---Ronald Reagan Quote
Guest SgtMinor Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Neolibertarian wrote: > In article <N42dnRycQoCbcQDbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, > SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: > > >>Neolibertarian wrote: >> >>>In article <Lp-dnTb5HYGa7gDbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com>, >>> SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Neolibertarian wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <Xns9970CD7925C09fubar@63.218.45.252>, >>>>>Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>>>>>news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Irritation grows over taxes >>>>>>>http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's >>>>>>COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... >>>>>> >>>>>>WOW... Imagine that eh? >>>>>> >>>>>>How can we live without such insightfull information??? >>>>>> >>>>>>But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 >>>>>>Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. >>>>>> >>>>>>Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? >>>>>> >>>>>>Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>That high taxes keep an economy flat. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>What does large deficit spending do for economic growth? What would a >>>>balanced budget do? And why do we want growth in the first place, i.e. >>>>what's so bad about a flat economy? >>> >>> >>>Are you rich enough? >>> >> >>I take it that you do not have an appropriate response. > > > > You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. > > Demonstrable, this is. > Systems theory will tell you that to have greater organization (riches) in one place you will have an ever greater amount of entropy (poverty) elsewhere. The wholesale destruction of the planet suggests that many of us - myself included - may be too rich already. I am still curious to hear what you believe the impacts of large deficits, and balanced budgets to be on economic growth. Quote
Guest Click@Knicklas.com Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:51:22 GMT, Neolibertarian <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote: >You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. Yep, you can You can use accumulated wealth to play stock markets, or as the 1/4 of 1% CEO's and offices, you can become obscenely wealthy even when companies fail under your leadership You need to define the meaning of "you" Just like republicans saying: "We cut taxes for Americans...."------Which is only if you define "americans" as the richest 5% THe rest got fucked. Quote
Guest Balanced View Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 Neolibertarian wrote: > In article <N42dnRycQoCbcQDbnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, > SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: > > >> Neolibertarian wrote: >> >>> In article <Lp-dnTb5HYGa7gDbnZ2dnUVZ_umlnZ2d@comcast.com>, >>> SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Neolibertarian wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> In article <Xns9970CD7925C09fubar@63.218.45.252>, >>>>> Amanda Williams <pms@fu.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Captain Compassion <daranc@NOSPAMcharter.net> allegedly said in >>>>>> news:rekq93hm97a81t8phro00sglkvsmfa4fj7@4ax.com: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Irritation grows over taxes >>>>>>> http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1891543.ece >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Another riechtard "think-tank" does a "survey" and finds, to everyone's >>>>>> COMPLETE astonishment, that people don't like paying taxes... >>>>>> >>>>>> WOW... Imagine that eh? >>>>>> >>>>>> How can we live without such insightfull information??? >>>>>> >>>>>> But since the Conservative Party only got 14.1% of the vote in the 2005 >>>>>> Norweenie elections one can assume that the "irritation" is minor. >>>>>> >>>>>> Was there some point to this bullshit sparky??? >>>>>> >>>>>> Gonzo Funeral Watch: 00 days 00 hours 00 minutes and counting >>>>>> >>>>> That high taxes keep an economy flat. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> What does large deficit spending do for economic growth? What would a >>>> balanced budget do? And why do we want growth in the first place, i.e. >>>> what's so bad about a flat economy? >>>> >>> Are you rich enough? >>> >>> >> I take it that you do not have an appropriate response. >> > > > You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. > > Demonstrable, this is. > > LOL...Sure you can, very easily Quote
Guest Neolibertarian Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 In article <f7o9mp$9i5$2@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> wrote: > > > > > > You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. > > > > Demonstrable, this is. > > > > > LOL...Sure you can, very easily Tee hee. Where do you think wealth comes from? -- NeoLibertarian "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" ---Ronald Reagan Quote
Guest Balanced View Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 Neolibertarian wrote: > In article <f7o9mp$9i5$2@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> > wrote: > > >>> You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. >>> >>> Demonstrable, this is. >>> >>> >>> >> LOL...Sure you can, very easily >> > > Tee hee. > > Where do you think wealth comes from? > > First clue, diversify. Investors with any brains rarely tie all their money up in one country Second clue. There is money to be made in any market, up or down. Quote
Guest Neolibertarian Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 In article <f7p991$uiu$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> wrote: > Neolibertarian wrote: > > In article <f7o9mp$9i5$2@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> > > wrote: > > > > > >>> You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. > >>> > >>> Demonstrable, this is. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> LOL...Sure you can, very easily > >> > > > > Tee hee. > > > > Where do you think wealth comes from? > > > > > First clue, diversify. Investors with any brains rarely tie all their > money up in one country > Second clue. There is money to be made in any market, up or down. Americans were the first people on earth to use the term "to make money." Before that, money was static--it had to be inherited, stolen, borrowed or begged. Yes, wealth comes from /making/ money. Which is why there is so much more wealth today than a generation ago. -- NeoLibertarian "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" ---Ronald Reagan Quote
Guest Balanced View Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 Neolibertarian wrote: > In article <f7p991$uiu$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> > wrote: > > >> Neolibertarian wrote: >> >>> In article <f7o9mp$9i5$2@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>> You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. >>>>> >>>>> Demonstrable, this is. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> LOL...Sure you can, very easily >>>> >>>> >>> Tee hee. >>> >>> Where do you think wealth comes from? >>> >>> >>> >> First clue, diversify. Investors with any brains rarely tie all their >> money up in one country >> Second clue. There is money to be made in any market, up or down. >> > > Americans were the first people on earth to use the term "to make > money." Before that, money was static--it had to be inherited, stolen, > borrowed or begged. > > Bullshit, the USA was not the first country to use fiat money or go off the gold standard > Yes, wealth comes from /making/ money. > Printing paper and creating debt you mean > > Quote
Guest Neolibertarian Posted July 20, 2007 Posted July 20, 2007 In article <f7qdrd$fnm$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> wrote: > Neolibertarian wrote: > > In article <f7p991$uiu$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> > > wrote: > > > > > >> Neolibertarian wrote: > >> > >>> In article <f7o9mp$9i5$2@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. > >>>>> > >>>>> Demonstrable, this is. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> LOL...Sure you can, very easily > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Tee hee. > >>> > >>> Where do you think wealth comes from? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> First clue, diversify. Investors with any brains rarely tie all their > >> money up in one country > >> Second clue. There is money to be made in any market, up or down. > >> > > > > Americans were the first people on earth to use the term "to make > > money." Before that, money was static--it had to be inherited, stolen, > > borrowed or begged. > > > > > Bullshit, the USA was not the first country to use fiat money or go off > the gold standard > > Yes, wealth comes from /making/ money. > > > > Printing paper and creating debt you mean > > If you don't know how an economy works, nor how wealth is created--you have plenty of company. Especially here at Usenet. -- NeoLibertarian "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" ---Ronald Reagan Quote
Guest SgtMinor Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 Neolibertarian wrote: > In article <f7qdrd$fnm$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> > wrote: > > >>Neolibertarian wrote: >> >>>In article <f7p991$uiu$1@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> >>>wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Neolibertarian wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>In article <f7o9mp$9i5$2@aioe.org>, Balanced View <Nill@nill.net> >>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>You can't get richer if the economy doesn't grow. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Demonstrable, this is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>LOL...Sure you can, very easily >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Tee hee. >>>>> >>>>>Where do you think wealth comes from? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>First clue, diversify. Investors with any brains rarely tie all their >>>>money up in one country >>>>Second clue. There is money to be made in any market, up or down. >>>> >>> >>>Americans were the first people on earth to use the term "to make >>>money." Before that, money was static--it had to be inherited, stolen, >>>borrowed or begged. >>> >>> >> >>Bullshit, the USA was not the first country to use fiat money or go off >>the gold standard >> >>>Yes, wealth comes from /making/ money. >>> >> >>Printing paper and creating debt you mean >> > If you don't know how an economy works, nor how wealth is created--you > have plenty of company. Especially here at Usenet. > Nobody knows how an economy works. Economics is a social science, the study of human behavior, and all you can do to explain such behavior is to mumble a few theories. And your "wealth creation" theory is pathetic. Quote
Guest Neolibertarian Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 In article <5rmdnfzzboaYzzzbnZ2dnUVZ_oLinZ2d@comcast.com>, SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>First clue, diversify. Investors with any brains rarely tie all their > >>>>money up in one country > >>>>Second clue. There is money to be made in any market, up or down. > >>>> > >>> > >>>Americans were the first people on earth to use the term "to make > >>>money." Before that, money was static--it had to be inherited, stolen, > >>>borrowed or begged. > >>> > >>> > >> > >>Bullshit, the USA was not the first country to use fiat money or go off > >>the gold standard > >> > >>>Yes, wealth comes from /making/ money. > >>> > >> > >>Printing paper and creating debt you mean > >> > > If you don't know how an economy works, nor how wealth is created--you > > have plenty of company. Especially here at Usenet. > > > > Nobody knows how an economy works. You may not. However, just because you don't know, doesn't mean no one knows. > Economics is a social science, the > study of human behavior, Certainly some aspects of economics--though this branch of social science is highly quantifiable. > and all you can do to explain such behavior is > to mumble a few theories. Valid scientific theories must be predictive. Many economic theories have been proven successfully predictive. > And your "wealth creation" theory is pathetic. I haven't articulated any theories. Yet. -- NeoLibertarian "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" ---Ronald Reagan Quote
Guest Governor Swill Posted July 21, 2007 Posted July 21, 2007 On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:23:33 -0400, SgtMinor <Sarge@the.old.folks.home.invalid> wrote: >>>Printing paper and creating debt you mean >>> >> If you don't know how an economy works, nor how wealth is created--you >> have plenty of company. Especially here at Usenet. >> > >Nobody knows how an economy works. Economics is a social science, the >study of human behavior, and all you can do to explain such behavior is >to mumble a few theories. And your "wealth creation" theory is pathetic. I can link 21st century international finance to the coinage of the Holy Roman Empire. Economics is a not a social science but it is dependent on human behaviors. It is an exact science modified by human application of it's principles. Wealth does not exist in some finite supply under the ground somewhere that is dug up, refined and then locked away. The supply of consumers long ago outstripped the supply of metal backing let alone metal coin. This is why during the last century, modern nations began to withdraw from metal backing and converting to a paper money supply that has value based on consumer and investor confidence and trust in it's value. Wealth is not how much money you have, it's how many tangible things you have or can get. Paper money is an agreed upon medium of exchange. It's a point system for wealth distribution. Humans used to mint coins out of metals in order to keep score. Go anywhere in the world. No matter what you want there, transportation, food, lodging, local crafts or 14 year old virgins, if you have dollars, they will accept them. They would probably take euros and perhaps wuan as well these days. In many places, many regional currencies would be acceptable. In the Pacific Rim, I'm sure yen is acceptable in payment while baht or KHR are mostly not. The more of your currency it takes to buy a thing, the less value it has. You can buy more in more places with a dollar than you can with the market equivalent of a dollar in local currency. In some places, the local currency is so inflated that they can't make change for a dollar. This explains $10 hotels abroad. This is because the dollar's value is agreed on by the planet. The LAK is agreed on only by Laos. This gives dollar holders economic power which motivates them to continue to acquire dollars even though they are mere slips of paper, and non dollar holders struggle to obtain them. Possession of dollars means global economic security. The United States is the source of dollars. Capitalism is really quite old. Mints made money by stamping coins from the King's metal supply. These coins were then lent to banks and merchants at very low interest rates. They lent the coins to consumers at profitably higher interest rates. Then you keep books, consider your accounts receivable to be assets which you can loan out and borrow against as future expected payments coming from your debtors. An economy gets out of control when there is way too much money 'on the books' than in circulation or when consumers lose faith in the coinage. In history you'll find many examples of times when merchants and consumers carefully filed a bit from the edges of coins and collected the dust for smelting later. When there's not enough metal to go around and prices are kept depressed, what do you do to keep your economy humming? You switch to paper, and keep the actual metal in vaults. Trouble is, that doesn't actually increase the supply of metal so what you do is maintain public confidence and trust that you can meet your financial obligations. Eventually, the King goes 'off' gold and says, "Ok, it's just paper. But let's say it's gold, ok?" And the people say, "Well, we've never tried this before. Are you sure it will work?" "It'll work as long as you agree to follow the rules of the system." "Ok." So now everybody simply agrees that these little green and white slips of paper are worth something. And because a vast majority makes that agreement, they are. This brings about an epiphany that forms a sound philosophical basis for this method. It recognizes that it is not money which is wealth, it is what one has and can get that is wealth. Money is simply a point system for keeping score. There are all sorts of checks, balances and accounting practices required. This explains why there are so many regulations in high finance and why the best accountants need so much schooling and make such good money. :-) When you think about all the dollars in account books everywhere, you aren't looking at how many dollars there actually are, you're looking at a flow chart of where they're going and where they've been. The Fed distributes a dollar. It starts to circulate. If you track this dollar around, it shows up all over the place. It gets lent and spent and paid back over time and lent right back out so what you're seeing is a snapshot of that dollar's trail. After a while, there are enough dollars in circulation that financiers start borrowing from and lending to each other which added confusion further inflates the apparent money supply and helps reduce the need for more supply. It's a filter level to the consumer which works as a check against printing press induced hyperinflation. It's this confusion that induces the economic fears that metallists in particular feel. If one can comprehend that any broad view of how much money exists is actually a snapshot of where all the money is and has been , one can realize the system works extremely well. There was a mountain in Germany so rich in silver that it became the official source of currency for the Holy Roman Empire. The place was called Joachimthalers and the coins became known as 'thalers. Now you know where the word "dollar" comes from. Swill -- Picture of the day http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html Quote
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