Guest sdr Posted July 18, 2007 Posted July 18, 2007 Proof Of Evolution. On Jul 15, 2:36 am, Pastor Dave <no...@nowhere.com> wrote to someone: > You have given zero proof of macroevolution > and that is what you need to prove and can't. > Bugs staying bugs does not equal "goo to you". > Nor does falsely labeling me do anything but > prove your true intent. Pastor Dave Everything that exists is an evolution. >From ideas to creatures to rocks to atoms and stars: Everything without a single exception. This is how it is possible to KNOW that any and all proposals which exclude the evolutionary process from ANYTHING is self-evident proof in-and-of-itself that such a proposal is flawed AND therefore partly or entirely wrong. Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise physical impossibilities become not only possible but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic! I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic. And that therefore reason and logic, even the most obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no use to counter their mental illness (for it is not unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction that deists have that existence is everywhere awash in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it. The classical historical example is when Galileo showed his telescope to the Pope. Dogma said that the heavens were perfect and only the earth was corrupt... and that because we were God's special creation the universe circled the earth: IF but looking upon the truth were enough to convince one of its rightness, surely the Pope would be instantly convinced when he looked through his telescope and saw the pox-faced Moon... and all sorts of heavenly bodies circling NOT the earth but Jupiter and other mere planets! But, the Pope looked, and the Pope saw, and the Pope had to admit to Galileo that he was seeing what he was seeing. And then, as we all know, the Pope showed Galileo the instruments of torture which he threatened to use on him if he did not publicly say that it was Dogma that was true and NOT what their eyes were seeing. It is a social sickness, a mental illness from which human beings suffer no end. But I will persist, none-the-less, and mention in passing the evolution of pathogens which is killing a whole lot of atheists and theists alike: By the simplest laws of Darwinian adaptation of the fittest pathogens which used to kill us in great numbers were "conquered" by our discovery of antibiotics. We literally "flushed" the deadly pathogens from our system and kept them out by a great flood of antibiotics... forgetting that evolution and not God or even all our human efforts is what rules the universe. Well, we DID kill most of the deadly pathogens, but the survivors "adapted" to the new environment of antibiotics. And now the "evolved" pathogens are returning the state of affairs to the way it used to be before our discovery of antibiotics--With an ironic twist: because the newly evolved pathogens actually thrive in a body flushed with antibiotics, giving those antibiotics to people sickened with such pathogens actually makes things worst than were they not given any antibiotics at all! (We can still invent newer antibiotics, of course, but evolution will ensure that the matter will always rest where it has always rested: in a never-ending arms-race between living organisms to see which wins the reproduction race. I have my money on the worst bugs, whether that turn out to be they or us.) Ignore the truth of evolution at your own peril. In the case of H.I.V. research, there was also a curious instance in which evolution can be seen playing a quite dramatic role: Researchers were able to kill off a large percentage of the AIDS virus (it doesn't matter which for this example) with a heavy concoction of drugs, and patients seemed to thrive. But then they began to sicken again. Stubborn as people are, and doctors are people too, they persisted on the regimen of drugs being administered. With sad consequences. Then some patients decided, on their own, to stop taking the cocktail of drugs; and actually improved without any drugs. But it was not magic, it was evolution at work: The original viruses were killed (suppressed) by the cocktail of drugs... leaving only those viruses best "adapted" to an environment flushed with the drugs cocktail to "reproduce." Then, when the drugs were removed, those viruses "best adapted" to live in an environment without the drugs "replaced" the newly- evolved viruses. And we go back to the same old arms-race that evolution has unleashed upon this earth since its beginnings, worlds without end. But don't despair: Life is impossible without death. It may be a great tragedy to the individual, but death ensures that every generation of creatures is the best adapted to survive in whatever existence this planet offers--Something which is completely unpredictable: Therefore, were it the case that life depended on some well-thought-out plan, instead of on blind evolution, I simply cannot imagine how on earth life might have avoided some catastrophically stupid blunder long before now and killed itself... rather than waiting for something to kill it (as it now does with simply stunning success). [sic.] S D Rodrian http://poems.sdrodrian.com http://physics.sdrodrian.com http://mp3s.sdrodrian.com All religions are local. Only science is universal. Quote
Guest Eric Posted July 19, 2007 Posted July 19, 2007 On 2007-07-18 19:30:46 +0900, sdr <sdrodrian@sdrodrian.com> said: > Everything that exists is an evolution. >> From ideas to creatures to rocks to atoms and > stars: Everything without a single exception. > > This is how it is possible to KNOW that any > and all proposals which exclude the evolutionary > process from ANYTHING is self-evident proof > in-and-of-itself that such a proposal is flawed > AND therefore partly or entirely wrong. ===Everything that exists is a creation. From ideas to creatures to rocks to atoms and stars: Everything without a single exception. This is how it is possible to KNOW that any and all proposals which exclude the Creator from ANYTHING is self0evident proof in-and-of-itself that such a proposal is flawed AND therefore partly or entirely wrong.=== Yes, I can follow your logic and see that it uniquely supports your position. Quote
Guest Damian J. Anderson Posted July 22, 2007 Posted July 22, 2007 Just because something evolved does not mean it was not created. Microsoft Office for example, has evolved since its creation, but it is clear that it did not create itself. It came from the minds of intelligent beings, namely software developers. All aspects of technology have evolved in the last 100 or more years, but again, it has evolved because of the intelligence, ingenuity and creativity of human beings. Likewise, the world of nature may have evolved, but not by virtue of its own intelligence, but by that of its creator, by whatever name you call Him. Damian Anderson On Jul 18, 6:30 am, sdr <sdrodr...@sdrodrian.com> wrote: > Proof Of Evolution. > > On Jul 15, 2:36 am, Pastor Dave > <no...@nowhere.com> wrote to someone: > > > You have given zero proof of macroevolution > > and that is what you need to prove and can't. > > Bugs staying bugs does not equal "goo to you". > > Nor does falsely labeling me do anything but > > prove your true intent. Pastor Dave > > Everything that exists is an evolution.>From ideas to creatures to rocks to atoms and > > stars: Everything without a single exception. > > This is how it is possible to KNOW that any > and all proposals which exclude the evolutionary > process from ANYTHING is self-evident proof > in-and-of-itself that such a proposal is flawed > AND therefore partly or entirely wrong. > > Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise > physical impossibilities become not only possible > but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic! > > I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic. > And that therefore reason and logic, even the most > obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no > use to counter their mental illness (for it is not > unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction > that deists have that existence is everywhere awash > in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness > even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it. > > The classical historical example is when Galileo > showed his telescope to the Pope. Dogma said that > the heavens were perfect and only the earth was > corrupt... and that because we were God's special > creation the universe circled the earth: > > IF but looking upon the truth were enough to > convince one of its rightness, surely the Pope would > be instantly convinced when he looked through his > telescope and saw the pox-faced Moon... and all > sorts of heavenly bodies circling NOT the earth but > Jupiter and other mere planets! > > But, the Pope looked, and the Pope saw, and the > Pope had to admit to Galileo that he was seeing what > he was seeing. And then, as we all know, the Pope > showed Galileo the instruments of torture which he > threatened to use on him if he did not publicly say > that it was Dogma that was true and NOT what their > eyes were seeing. > > It is a social sickness, a mental illness from which > human beings suffer no end. > > But I will persist, none-the-less, and mention in > passing the evolution of pathogens which is killing > a whole lot of atheists and theists alike: By the > simplest laws of Darwinian adaptation of the fittest > pathogens which used to kill us in great numbers > were "conquered" by our discovery of antibiotics. > > We literally "flushed" the deadly pathogens from > our system and kept them out by a great flood of > antibiotics... forgetting that evolution and not God > or even all our human efforts is what rules the > universe. > > Well, we DID kill most of the deadly pathogens, but > the survivors "adapted" to the new environment of > antibiotics. And now the "evolved" pathogens are > returning the state of affairs to the way it used to > be before our discovery of antibiotics--With an ironic > twist: because the newly evolved pathogens actually > thrive in a body flushed with antibiotics, giving > those antibiotics to people sickened with such > pathogens actually makes things worst than were > they not given any antibiotics at all! (We can still > invent newer antibiotics, of course, but evolution > will ensure that the matter will always rest where it > has always rested: in a never-ending arms-race > between living organisms to see which wins the > reproduction race. I have my money on the worst > bugs, whether that turn out to be they or us.) > > Ignore the truth of evolution at your own peril. > > In the case of H.I.V. research, there was also a > curious instance in which evolution can be seen > playing a quite dramatic role: > > Researchers were able to kill off a large percentage > of the AIDS virus (it doesn't matter which for this > example) with a heavy concoction of drugs, and > patients seemed to thrive. But then they began to > sicken again. Stubborn as people are, and doctors > are people too, they persisted on the regimen of > drugs being administered. With sad consequences. > > Then some patients decided, on their own, to stop > taking the cocktail of drugs; and actually improved > without any drugs. But it was not magic, it was > evolution at work: > > The original viruses were killed (suppressed) by the > cocktail of drugs... leaving only those viruses best > "adapted" to an environment flushed with the drugs > cocktail to "reproduce." Then, when the drugs were > removed, those viruses "best adapted" to live in an > environment without the drugs "replaced" the newly- > evolved viruses. And we go back to the same old > arms-race that evolution has unleashed upon this > earth since its beginnings, worlds without end. > > But don't despair: Life is impossible without death. > It may be a great tragedy to the individual, but > death ensures that every generation of creatures is > the best adapted to survive in whatever existence > this planet offers--Something which is completely > unpredictable: Therefore, were it the case that life > depended on some well-thought-out plan, instead of > on blind evolution, I simply cannot imagine how on > earth life might have avoided some catastrophically > stupid blunder long before now and killed itself... > rather than waiting for something to kill it (as it > now does with simply stunning success). [sic.] > > S D Rodrianhttp://poems.sdrodrian.comhttp://physics.sdrodrian.comhttp://mp3s.sdrodrian.com > > All religions are local. > Only science is universal. Quote
Guest Bruce Posted August 10, 2007 Posted August 10, 2007 On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:19:43 -0000, "Damian J. Anderson" <Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote: > >Just because something evolved does not mean it was not created. >Microsoft Office for example, has evolved since its creation, but it >is clear that it did not create itself. It came from the minds of >intelligent beings, namely software developers. All aspects of >technology have evolved in the last 100 or more years, but again, it >has evolved because of the intelligence, ingenuity and creativity of >human beings. Likewise, the world of nature may have evolved, but not >by virtue of its own intelligence, but by that of its creator, by >whatever name you call Him. > >Damian Anderson So in otherwords there is NOTHING to prove by such an arguement. except how inflated somebodies ego can get in the process. Thanks for being so Obvious.. Cheers, ;-) Bruce > >On Jul 18, 6:30 am, sdr <sdrodr...@sdrodrian.com> wrote: >> Proof Of Evolution. >> >> On Jul 15, 2:36 am, Pastor Dave >> <no...@nowhere.com> wrote to someone: >> >> > You have given zero proof of macroevolution >> > and that is what you need to prove and can't. >> > Bugs staying bugs does not equal "goo to you". >> > Nor does falsely labeling me do anything but >> > prove your true intent. Pastor Dave >> >> Everything that exists is an evolution.>From ideas to creatures to rocks to atoms and >> >> stars: Everything without a single exception. >> >> This is how it is possible to KNOW that any >> and all proposals which exclude the evolutionary >> process from ANYTHING is self-evident proof >> in-and-of-itself that such a proposal is flawed >> AND therefore partly or entirely wrong. >> >> Existence is absolutely deterministic. Otherwise >> physical impossibilities become not only possible >> but almost inevitable. We become a realm of magic! >> >> I know that theists believe in nothing BUT magic. >> And that therefore reason and logic, even the most >> obvious and self-evident proofs & facts are of no >> use to counter their mental illness (for it is not >> unlike a madness, this unreasonable conviction >> that deists have that existence is everywhere awash >> in evidence of magic all around us). This sickness >> even permeates into science and retards/thwarts it. >> >> The classical historical example is when Galileo >> showed his telescope to the Pope. Dogma said that >> the heavens were perfect and only the earth was >> corrupt... and that because we were God's special >> creation the universe circled the earth: >> >> IF but looking upon the truth were enough to >> convince one of its rightness, surely the Pope would >> be instantly convinced when he looked through his >> telescope and saw the pox-faced Moon... and all >> sorts of heavenly bodies circling NOT the earth but >> Jupiter and other mere planets! >> >> But, the Pope looked, and the Pope saw, and the >> Pope had to admit to Galileo that he was seeing what >> he was seeing. And then, as we all know, the Pope >> showed Galileo the instruments of torture which he >> threatened to use on him if he did not publicly say >> that it was Dogma that was true and NOT what their >> eyes were seeing. >> >> It is a social sickness, a mental illness from which >> human beings suffer no end. >> >> But I will persist, none-the-less, and mention in >> passing the evolution of pathogens which is killing >> a whole lot of atheists and theists alike: By the >> simplest laws of Darwinian adaptation of the fittest >> pathogens which used to kill us in great numbers >> were "conquered" by our discovery of antibiotics. >> >> We literally "flushed" the deadly pathogens from >> our system and kept them out by a great flood of >> antibiotics... forgetting that evolution and not God >> or even all our human efforts is what rules the >> universe. >> >> Well, we DID kill most of the deadly pathogens, but >> the survivors "adapted" to the new environment of >> antibiotics. And now the "evolved" pathogens are >> returning the state of affairs to the way it used to >> be before our discovery of antibiotics--With an ironic >> twist: because the newly evolved pathogens actually >> thrive in a body flushed with antibiotics, giving >> those antibiotics to people sickened with such >> pathogens actually makes things worst than were >> they not given any antibiotics at all! (We can still >> invent newer antibiotics, of course, but evolution >> will ensure that the matter will always rest where it >> has always rested: in a never-ending arms-race >> between living organisms to see which wins the >> reproduction race. I have my money on the worst >> bugs, whether that turn out to be they or us.) >> >> Ignore the truth of evolution at your own peril. >> >> In the case of H.I.V. research, there was also a >> curious instance in which evolution can be seen >> playing a quite dramatic role: >> >> Researchers were able to kill off a large percentage >> of the AIDS virus (it doesn't matter which for this >> example) with a heavy concoction of drugs, and >> patients seemed to thrive. But then they began to >> sicken again. Stubborn as people are, and doctors >> are people too, they persisted on the regimen of >> drugs being administered. With sad consequences. >> >> Then some patients decided, on their own, to stop >> taking the cocktail of drugs; and actually improved >> without any drugs. But it was not magic, it was >> evolution at work: >> >> The original viruses were killed (suppressed) by the >> cocktail of drugs... leaving only those viruses best >> "adapted" to an environment flushed with the drugs >> cocktail to "reproduce." Then, when the drugs were >> removed, those viruses "best adapted" to live in an >> environment without the drugs "replaced" the newly- >> evolved viruses. And we go back to the same old >> arms-race that evolution has unleashed upon this >> earth since its beginnings, worlds without end. >> >> But don't despair: Life is impossible without death. >> It may be a great tragedy to the individual, but >> death ensures that every generation of creatures is >> the best adapted to survive in whatever existence >> this planet offers--Something which is completely >> unpredictable: Therefore, were it the case that life >> depended on some well-thought-out plan, instead of >> on blind evolution, I simply cannot imagine how on >> earth life might have avoided some catastrophically >> stupid blunder long before now and killed itself... >> rather than waiting for something to kill it (as it >> now does with simply stunning success). [sic.] >> >> S D Rodrianhttp://poems.sdrodrian.comhttp://physics.sdrodrian.comhttp://mp3s.sdrodrian.com >> >> All religions are local. >> Only science is universal. > Quote
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