Lethalfind Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 Does anyone here honestly believe that these people are intelligent enough to sustain a democratic form of government? I don't and I'll take it step further, I don't think any primarily Muslim country is capable of sustaining a democratic form of government. The ideals are about "do it my way (allah's way) or fuck off and risk being blown up, not exactly compatible with democracy... I think the US is nieve thinking all countries need to be democratic... Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
hugo Posted April 23, 2006 Posted April 23, 2006 On Iraq,I have to agree with you 100%. we should concentrate on getting a dictator who is benevolent to US interests installed. Worked with the Shah of Iran for a quarter century before Jimmy Carter screwed it up. Let me quote Pat Buchanan: America today faces a choice of destinies. We can be the peacemaker of the world - or its policeman who goes about night-sticking troublemakers until we, too, find ourselves in some bloody brawl we cannot handle. And let us quickly adopt a measure of humility about how much we know about what is best for other peoples and cultures. In the words of the great scholar Russell Kirk: "There exists no single best form of government for the happiness of all mankind. The most suitable form of government depends on the historic experience, the customs, the beliefs, the state of culture...and all these things vary from land to land and age to age." Turkey is probably about the best example of a Muslim democracy. Quote The power to do good is also the power to do harm. - Milton Friedman "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison
lashton Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 Does anyone here honestly believe that these people are intelligent enough to sustain a democratic form of government? I don't and I'll take it step further, I don't think any primarily Muslim country is capable of sustaining a democratic form of government. The ideals are about "do it my way (allah's way) or fuck off and risk being blown up, not exactly compatible with democracy... I think the US is nieve thinking all countries need to be democratic... what and assuming the the US is capable, one of the dumbest races on earth, 72% of americans think a star is NOT a burning ball int he sky but something like Madonna, come on, and you are calling Iraqis dumb! Quote
jokersarewild Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 what and assuming the the US is capable, one of the dumbest races on earth, 72% of americans think a star is NOT a burning ball int he sky but something like Madonna, come on, and you are calling Iraqis dumb! Speaking of utter stupidity, COMMAS ARE NOT PERIODS. Anyway, it isn't a true matter of stupidity as much as it is the Iraqis not wanting to abandon their religion. There are Iraqis who want it, but the problem with this is that anyone who wants to be a leader is a corrupt shithead. So, what we do is install a president. Like we did with Saddam, except this guy might like a few human beings. So, get democracy off of the ground, then, if all goes right, the guy will either stay in office for 4 years, or be good enough for 8. Then, they pick another one, although we will probably have to pick the candidates for a while. Quote RoyalOrleans is my real dad!
Lethalfind Posted April 28, 2006 Author Posted April 28, 2006 what and assuming the the US is capable, one of the dumbest races on earth, 72% of americans think a star is NOT a burning ball int he sky but something like Madonna, come on, and you are calling Iraqis dumb! So are we too assume you think your smarter? Are you from the UK??? I can come up with much worse stats on the UK, its meaningless. Read the news ass hole, the vice president of Iraq's daughter was just killed...anyone who trys to make things better there might end up dead is the message their trying to send. If you hate America so much then fuck off...there are alot of Americans here and we're not going anywhere...don't call us next time your piss hole country needs help... Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
Quarky1.0 Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 Any society that is ruled and governed by the constraints of a religious theocracy can never become a democratic country. In the Muslim world, the Imhams have final say on the society as a whole. The Muslim religion will do its best to prevent freedom of speech, and democracy as a whole from taking hold in the Middle East, thus enabling them to retain there power base. It took the western religions centuries to accept democracy and the same will happen in the Middle East, but it will take time. I fear that when the US and allied forces leave Iraq it will collapse into civil war and a hard line religious theocracy will take over and the world will have another Iran on its hands. Quote
ImWithStupid Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 what and assuming the the US is capable, one of the dumbest races on earth, 72% of americans think a star is NOT a burning ball int he sky but something like Madonna, come on, and you are calling Iraqis dumb! While on the subject of dumb people. The US is not a "race" it's a "nation". The following is a public service announcement from the US... [attach=full]908[/attach] Quote
ImWithStupid Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 Any society that is ruled and governed by the constraints of a religious theocracy can never become a democratic country. In the Muslim world' date=' the Imhams have final say on the society as a whole. The Muslim religion will do its best to prevent freedom of speech, and democracy as a whole from taking hold in the Middle East, thus enabling them to retain there power base. It took the western religions centuries to accept democracy and the same will happen in the Middle East, but it will take time.[/quote'] Exactly. There has never been a successful government that ruled justly or fairly either economically or judiciously that was based on the teachings of any religion and never will be. Society and values of a country are for influence by the religious beliefs of a country if that's the way the people want it, but there is no place, for religion, in the economic, legislative or enforcement sects of any government. I fear that when the US and allied forces leave Iraq it will collapse into civil war and a hard line religious theocracy will take over and the world will have another Iran on its hands. This is what the US is trying to avoid. This outcome was witnessed first hand 15 to 20 years ago in Afghanistan when the USSR pulled out and the US just left them with no central government and the Tali-ban came to power after civil war. The US doesn't want a repeat of that failed foreign policy. Quote
Lethalfind Posted April 28, 2006 Author Posted April 28, 2006 Someone else pointed this out, I think they need a dictator that has consistent beliefs with the US, I don't think the people are capable of anything but being led. Quote I am a pathetic piece of shit leeching single mom.
snafu Posted April 28, 2006 Posted April 28, 2006 Yes I think they can. It won't be right away. They have to live it first. And once they stop killing themselves. It should take at least ten years for it to sink in and settel. Quote "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws. That's just insane!" Penn & Teller NEVER FORGOTTEN
Joe87 Posted May 29, 2006 Posted May 29, 2006 The geopolitical conflicts of Iraq can not sustain a democracy. I am from Iraq, and for the past 50 years or so it has been a bloody coupe after a bloody coupe, with a power struggle among different groups. I truly think the arbitirary borders given by the british (British purposely made a country full of groups who hate one another to more easily rule over them). The reason Turkey works is simply because they are a united peoples, and the enstillment of values by the young turks who shaped future political thought. The idea that a race of people are too "stupid" to form a type of government is an arrogant elitist and fallicious idea. Quote
ImWithStupid Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 One of the biggest obstacles to some form of "democracy" in Iraq is that the US is approaching this task too close minded. The US wants "democracy" as they see it should be and are refusing the input and support of other nations. This also is an obstacle because there are factions that don't like the US and will fight what they are trying to do. If the US would allow input from other nations that can appeal to these factions, there would be a greater chance of progress. Where a faction might reject an idea coming from an American mediator, they might not reject the same idea from a Turk, Egyptian, Russian, etc... The US needs to loosen up some of how the want to have complete control of the outcome and work to a solution even if it isn't exactly the version that the US politicians or the "Sacred Cows" that control them want. Quote
jokersarewild Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 One of the biggest obstacles to some form of "democracy" in Iraq is that the US is approaching this task too close minded. The US wants "democracy" as they see it should be and are refusing the input and support of other nations. This also is an obstacle because there are factions that don't like the US and will fight what they are trying to do. If the US would allow input from other nations that can appeal to these factions, there would be a greater chance of progress. Where a faction might reject an idea coming from an American mediator, they might not reject the same idea from a Turk, Egyptian, Russian, etc... The US needs to loosen up some of how the want to have complete control of the outcome and work to a solution even if it isn't exactly the version that the US politicians or the "Sacred Cows" that control them want. It's actually more problematic that we want to give them DEMOCRACY NOW vs DEMOCRACY WHEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY SUSTAIN IT. THIS is the reason they don't like us. Quote RoyalOrleans is my real dad!
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