Surge? Who's surge? 250 dead possibly 500 as Iraqi religious murders continue

[Guest Jerry Okamura]

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:7q2xi.10230$Ns6.5625@trnddc01...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> <wbyeats@ireland.com> wrote in message

>> news:f3r8c35j2esfp2h8g5hgois0ggc0dfa56a@4ax.com...

>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

>>> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>>

>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>>

>>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>>

>>>>> Why?

>>>>>

>>>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>>>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some

>>>> of them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be

>>>> achieved.

>>>

>>> I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

>>> invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

>>> executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

>>> for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

>>> of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

>>> succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

>>> right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

>>> political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

>>> breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for

>>> political (not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so

>>> the soldiers should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable

>>> position of taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt)

>>> and leaving nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the

>>> position we see today.

>>>

>> So, you agree that we should pull out of Iraq IMMEDIATELY? Is that

>> what the democrats are forcing the President to do?

>

> bush,jr is the Commander-in-Chief.

> He has said so many times.

> It's his duty to take action.

>

> He'll do what he's done all his life.

>

> He'll pass the responsibility

> for his latest failure in his

> lifelong string of failures on to

> someone else

>

 

Just cannot bring yourself to answer a simple question?

[Guest Jerry Okamura]

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:nh2xi.10226$Ns6.8606@trnddc01...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>> news:sN%wi.4645$jU4.315@trnddc02...

>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you

>>>>>> going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>

>>>>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>

>>>> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen to

>>>> ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on these

>>>> newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of success. Use

>>>> your own definition of success, then answer the question.

>>>

>>>

>>> There is no "success" in an

>>> ill conceived enterprise that

>>> was doomed from the it's

>>> flawed concept

>>>

>>

>> If you cannot achieve success, and if success is not important then we

>> should not be there in the first place, and we should get the helll

>> out of Dodge IMMEDIATELY. If success is not important, then it does

>> not matte what Patreus has to say about progess, because success is

>> not imporant or we cannot achieve success in any event, so why should

>> the democrats wait until they hear from Patreus? Why aren't they

>> taking aciton to get us our of Dodge IMMEDIATELY? Why do they keep

>> throwing money at a problem that cannot be successful? Why didn't

>> they cut off all funding for the effort in Iraq? Perhaps becuase they

>> do not share your belief that success is not important, or because

>> they do not share your belief that success in not possible?

>

>

> Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

 

I am asking you? Are you going to answer the quesiton?

>

> This is his party....no effort on your part will

> shift responsibility away from bush,jr.

>

> The Republican line seems to be to try to

> shift responsibility away from the creator.

>

> The creator of this mess and his Republican

> cohorts

>

I am doing no such thing. I have said, exactly what we should do, if

success is not important or if success is not possible. Am I going to hear

a response to the question I asked? Or are you going to "cut and run" from

this confrontation, which seems to be the thing those of your ilk seem to

like to do....

[Guest Sid9]

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:sN%wi.4645$jU4.315@trnddc02...

>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>

>>>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you

>>>>> going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>

>>>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>

>>> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen to

>>> ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on these

>>> newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of success. Use

>>> your own definition of success, then answer the question.

>>

>>

>> There is no "success" in an

>> ill conceived enterprise that

>> was doomed from the it's

>> flawed concept

>>

>

> If you cannot achieve success, and if success is not important then we

> should not be there in the first place, and we should get the helll

> out of Dodge IMMEDIATELY. If success is not important, then it does

> not matte what Patreus has to say about progess, because success is

> not imporant or we cannot achieve success in any event, so why should

> the democrats wait until they hear from Patreus? Why aren't they

> taking aciton to get us our of Dodge IMMEDIATELY? Why do they keep

> throwing money at a problem that cannot be successful? Why didn't

> they cut off all funding for the effort in Iraq? Perhaps becuase they

> do not share your belief that success is not important, or because

> they do not share your belief that success in not possible?

 

 

Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

 

This is his party....no effort on your part will

shift responsibility away from bush,jr.

 

The Republican line seems to be to try to

shift responsibility away from the creator.

 

The creator of this mess and his Republican

cohorts

[Guest Sid9]

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:i8_wi.7400$xc5.5582@trnddc06...

>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>

>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>

>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>

>>>> Why?

>>>>

>>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of

>>> them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be

>>> achieved.

>>

>> Not we.

>> You.

>> bush,jr supporters of his fiasco.

>>

>

> Total foolishness. The "we" are the members of Congress, who "we"

> elected to represent us.

 

The "Unitary Executive", a role

which bush,jr has taken for himself

is the "Uniter-Decider-Commander-in-Chief"

 

He need only face up to facts

of the situation` on the ground

and take action.

 

But, NO!

 

He waits for Petraeus to declare

victory and redeploy our troops

in the plan proposed over two

years ago and 1,500 death fewer

by John Murtha.

 

Your role here is a desperate

attempt to shift the blame away

from bush,jr and the Republicans.

 

It wont work.

 

The polls tell the story.

[Guest Sid9]

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> <wbyeats@ireland.com> wrote in message

> news:f3r8c35j2esfp2h8g5hgois0ggc0dfa56a@4ax.com...

>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

>> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>

>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>

>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>

>>>> Why?

>>>>

>>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some

>>> of them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be

>>> achieved.

>>

>> I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

>> invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

>> executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

>> for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

>> of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

>> succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

>> right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

>> political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

>> breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for

>> political (not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so

>> the soldiers should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable

>> position of taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt)

>> and leaving nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the

>> position we see today.

>>

> So, you agree that we should pull out of Iraq IMMEDIATELY? Is that

> what the democrats are forcing the President to do?

 

bush,jr is the Commander-in-Chief.

He has said so many times.

It's his duty to take action.

 

He'll do what he's done all his life.

 

He'll pass the responsibility

for his latest failure in his

lifelong string of failures on to

someone else

[Guest Jerry Okamura]

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:Vg4xi.8307$xc5.1521@trnddc06...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>> news:fn2xi.10228$Ns6.6825@trnddc01...

>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>>>> news:i8_wi.7400$xc5.5582@trnddc06...

>>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from

>>>>>>>> Iraq IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Why?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>>>>>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some

>>>>>> of them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot

>>>>>> be achieved.

>>>>>

>>>>> Not we.

>>>>> You.

>>>>> bush,jr supporters of his fiasco.

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Total foolishness. The "we" are the members of Congress, who "we"

>>>> elected to represent us.

>>>

>>> The "Unitary Executive", a role

>>> which bush,jr has taken for himself

>>> is the "Uniter-Decider-Commander-in-Chief"

>>>

>>> He need only face up to facts

>>> of the situation` on the ground

>>> and take action.

>>>

>>> But, NO!

>>

>> You do not seem to have a basic understanding of how your own

>> government works. The Congress holds the ultimate trump card. It

>> does not matter what Bush wants to do, or does not want to do, in

>> Iraq. "If" the Congress wants to stop the President, they can do

>> that with one simple move....defund the money that is required to

>> fund the effort. Have they done that? No, they have not... They

>> did just the opposite, they provided the funding that the President

>> requested. So, don't make such dumb statements.

>>>

>>> He waits for Petraeus to declare

>>> victory and redeploy our troops

>>> in the plan proposed over two

>>> years ago and 1,500 death fewer

>>> by John Murtha.

>>

>> And if he doesn't do that, then what are you going to say? Are we

>> going to hear from you that your prediction was wrong?

>>>

>>> Your role here is a desperate

>>> attempt to shift the blame away

>>> from bush,jr and the Republicans.

>>>

>>> It wont work.

>>>

>>> The polls tell the story.

>>>

>>

>> The polls do not tell anything. The "people" do not know if success

>> is possbile or not possible. These are the same people who cannot

>> tell you who the Vice President of the United States are, or cannot

>> name most of the members of the US Supreme Court, or tell you who is

>> the current Speaker of the House, or who is the majority leader in

>> the Senate, much less who the minority leaders of both houses are.

>> Besides, the polls also tell us that "we" do not want to lose

>> either....

>

> My predictions about

> what would happen

> after bush,jr was

> awarded the presidency

> have been right from

> day one.

>

 

Okay I give up. You obviously are not going to answer the question asked.

[Guest Jerry Okamura]

<wbyeats@ireland.com> wrote in message

news:s2h9c3h37obkroj2kpri1hg9d7c5qrgkgl@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:38:45 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>

>>

>><wbyeats@ireland.com> wrote in message

>>news:f3r8c35j2esfp2h8g5hgois0ggc0dfa56a@4ax.com...

>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

>>> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>>"Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>>

>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>>

>>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>>

>>>>> Why?

>>>>>

>>>>You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible, then

>>>>we

>>>>are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of them dying

>>>>everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be achieved.

>>>

>>> I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

>>> invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

>>> executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

>>> for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

>>> of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

>>> succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

>>> right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

>>> political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

>>> breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for political

>>> (not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so the soldiers

>>> should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable position of

>>> taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt) and leaving

>>> nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the position we see

>>> today.

>

>>So, you agree that we should pull out of Iraq IMMEDIATELY? Is that what

>>the

>>democrats are forcing the President to do?

>

> Tomorrow - no. By the end of the year - yup. And let Bush live with it

> for the rest of his life. Not only letting American soldiers die for

> his greater glory but upsetting the precarious balance in the area.

> Seems Cheney was right about a decade ago - can you say quagmire?

 

So, because you want Bush to live with it a little longer, you are willing

to have more of our men and women die, just to make a point? Pretty sick

mind you have....

>

> WB Yeats

>

> I'd redeploy about 30,000 of the exiting troops to Afghanistan and

> become a presence along the n/east border with Pakistan.

 

Still did not answer the bassic quesiton I asked....

[Guest Jerry Okamura]

<wbyeats@ireland.com> wrote in message

news:1ih9c39ibb9fidr0r5i3jscluct04pjot3@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:45:48 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>

>>

>>"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>>news:sW%wi.4651$jU4.2563@trnddc02...

>>> wbyeats@ireland.com wrote:

>>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

>>>> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Why?

>>>>>>

>>>>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>>>>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of

>>>>> them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be

>>>>> achieved.

>>>>

>>>> I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

>>>> invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

>>>> executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

>>>> for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

>>>> of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

>>>> succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

>>>> right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

>>>> political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

>>>> breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for political

>>>> (not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so the soldiers

>>>> should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable position of

>>>> taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt) and leaving

>>>> nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the position we see

>>>> today.

>>>>

>>>> WB Yeats

>>>

>>>

>>> Well said.

>>>

>>> Looking out for American interests, we need to get out now.

>>>

>>> bush,jr wrecked America's reputation

>>>

>>> Out now, we can start to rebuild

>>> our military and, with a new

>>> administration, rebuild our place in the world.

>>

>>Why do we "have to rebuild" our military? What is the purpose of having a

>>military? The purpose of having a military is (1) to defend our country

>>it

>>attacked, (2) to protect our access to vital resources, and (3) to use the

>>military for humanitarian reasons. We do not have to have such a large

>>military to defend this country. We do need a large military to protect

>>our

>>access to vital resouces. We "could" use our super power status to do

>>some

>>good.

>

> We have to rebuild our military for all the reasons you list above

 

One, you do not need to be a super power to defend this country from attack.

Second, you agreed that we needed to protect our access to vital resources,

but you are not willing to protect our access to the oil in Iraq (please try

to be consistent). You think we should use our military for humanitarian

reasons, yet when we do that, you do not want us to insure that the goal is

achieved (again a matter of consistency). So, which is it?

>

>>But, Iraq does have a vital resource called oil....and we do not seem

>>wiling to protect our access to that vital resource, then the logical

>>question is, what vital resource are we willing to protect? And if we are

>>not willing to use our super power status, while we are in the catbirds

>>seat

>>to try to make the people of the world live a better life, what does that

>>say about our moral values? Besides, we don't seem to have the stomach

>>for

>>a fight, so what good is having a military when you do not have the

>>stomach

>>for the fight, that will happen when you use our military?

>

> Your argument just fell apart. We had access to Iraqi oil prior to

> Bush's folly. Most of that access is now gone. We are not giving the

> people of the world a better life - we gave Iraq instability and

> thousands dead. We gave them rubble in place of water and electricity.

> We gave them promises of democracy which doesn't work without security

> and full bellies. That says a lot about some folks' moral values - or

> lack thereof. We have the stomach for a fight - just not a false one

> for the greater glory of Wee Georgie.

 

The oil did not disappear, it is still there. It will either be controlled

by someone who has a good and friendly relationship with the interest of the

west, or it will be controlled by someone who does not have a good and

friendly relationship with the interest of the west.... You cannot have it

both ways....which would you prefer......

>

> WB Yeats

[Guest wbyeats@ireland.com]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:38:45 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>

><wbyeats@ireland.com> wrote in message

>news:f3r8c35j2esfp2h8g5hgois0ggc0dfa56a@4ax.com...

>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

>> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>>

>>>

>>>"Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>>news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>

>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>

>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>

>>>> Why?

>>>>

>>>You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible, then we

>>>are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of them dying

>>>everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be achieved.

>>

>> I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

>> invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

>> executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

>> for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

>> of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

>> succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

>> right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

>> political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

>> breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for political

>> (not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so the soldiers

>> should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable position of

>> taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt) and leaving

>> nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the position we see

>> today.

>So, you agree that we should pull out of Iraq IMMEDIATELY? Is that what the

>democrats are forcing the President to do?

 

Tomorrow - no. By the end of the year - yup. And let Bush live with it

for the rest of his life. Not only letting American soldiers die for

his greater glory but upsetting the precarious balance in the area.

Seems Cheney was right about a decade ago - can you say quagmire?

 

WB Yeats

 

I'd redeploy about 30,000 of the exiting troops to Afghanistan and

become a presence along the n/east border with Pakistan.

[Guest Sid9]

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:nh2xi.10226$Ns6.8606@trnddc01...

>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>>> news:sN%wi.4645$jU4.315@trnddc02...

>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>>>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you

>>>>>>> going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>>

>>>>> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen

>>>>> to ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on

>>>>> these newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of

>>>>> success. Use your own definition of success, then answer the

>>>>> question.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> There is no "success" in an

>>>> ill conceived enterprise that

>>>> was doomed from the it's

>>>> flawed concept

>>>>

>>>

>>> If you cannot achieve success, and if success is not important then

>>> we should not be there in the first place, and we should get the

>>> helll out of Dodge IMMEDIATELY. If success is not important, then

>>> it does not matte what Patreus has to say about progess, because

>>> success is not imporant or we cannot achieve success in any event,

>>> so why should the democrats wait until they hear from Patreus? Why

>>> aren't they taking aciton to get us our of Dodge IMMEDIATELY? Why

>>> do they keep throwing money at a problem that cannot be successful?

>>> Why didn't they cut off all funding for the effort in Iraq? Perhaps

>>> becuase they do not share your belief that success is not

>>> important, or because they do not share your belief that success in

>>> not possible?

>>

>>

>> Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

>

> I am asking you? Are you going to answer the quesiton?

 

No.

I'm not the "Uniter-Decider-Commander-in-Chief"

 

Send an email to the White House.

Pose your questions there

>>

>> This is his party....no effort on your part will

>> shift responsibility away from bush,jr.

>>

>> The Republican line seems to be to try to

>> shift responsibility away from the creator.

>>

>> The creator of this mess and his Republican

>> cohorts

>>

> I am doing no such thing. I have said, exactly what we should do, if

> success is not important or if success is not possible. Am I going

> to hear a response to the question I asked? Or are you going to "cut

> and run" from this confrontation, which seems to be the thing those

> of your ilk seem to like to do....

 

 

My "ilk" thought that this war

was a disaster from the outset.

 

Got a problem with the mess?

The White House has an email address

[Guest Jerry Okamura]

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:BD3xi.7978$%t4.4649@trnddc03...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>> news:nh2xi.10226$Ns6.8606@trnddc01...

>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>>>> news:sN%wi.4645$jU4.315@trnddc02...

>>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you

>>>>>>>> going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen

>>>>>> to ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on

>>>>>> these newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of

>>>>>> success. Use your own definition of success, then answer the

>>>>>> question.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> There is no "success" in an

>>>>> ill conceived enterprise that

>>>>> was doomed from the it's

>>>>> flawed concept

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> If you cannot achieve success, and if success is not important then

>>>> we should not be there in the first place, and we should get the

>>>> helll out of Dodge IMMEDIATELY. If success is not important, then

>>>> it does not matte what Patreus has to say about progess, because

>>>> success is not imporant or we cannot achieve success in any event,

>>>> so why should the democrats wait until they hear from Patreus? Why

>>>> aren't they taking aciton to get us our of Dodge IMMEDIATELY? Why

>>>> do they keep throwing money at a problem that cannot be successful?

>>>> Why didn't they cut off all funding for the effort in Iraq? Perhaps

>>>> becuase they do not share your belief that success is not

>>>> important, or because they do not share your belief that success in

>>>> not possible?

>>>

>>>

>>> Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

>>

>> I am asking you? Are you going to answer the quesiton?

>

> No.

> I'm not the "Uniter-Decider-Commander-in-Chief"

>

> Send an email to the White House.

> Pose your questions there

 

You are not the decider, but you sure as heck have an opinion haven't you?

And you have had no trouble expressing your opinion about what you think is

wrong with this little adventure. So, why now the sudden reluctance to

voice your opinion? Perhaps because you do not want to voice your opinion?

[Guest Jerry Okamura]

"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:cd4xi.8287$xc5.139@trnddc06...

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>> news:nh2xi.10226$Ns6.8606@trnddc01...

>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>>>> news:sN%wi.4645$jU4.315@trnddc02...

>>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you

>>>>>>>> going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen

>>>>>> to ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on

>>>>>> these newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of

>>>>>> success. Use your own definition of success, then answer the

>>>>>> question.

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> There is no "success" in an

>>>>> ill conceived enterprise that

>>>>> was doomed from the it's

>>>>> flawed concept

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>> If you cannot achieve success, and if success is not important then

>>>> we should not be there in the first place, and we should get the

>>>> helll out of Dodge IMMEDIATELY. If success is not important, then

>>>> it does not matte what Patreus has to say about progess, because

>>>> success is not imporant or we cannot achieve success in any event,

>>>> so why should the democrats wait until they hear from Patreus? Why

>>>> aren't they taking aciton to get us our of Dodge IMMEDIATELY? Why

>>>> do they keep throwing money at a problem that cannot be successful?

>>>> Why didn't they cut off all funding for the effort in Iraq? Perhaps

>>>> becuase they do not share your belief that success is not

>>>> important, or because they do not share your belief that success in

>>>> not possible?

>>>

>>>

>>> Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

>>

>> I am asking you? Are you going to answer the quesiton?

>>>

>>> This is his party....no effort on your part will

>>> shift responsibility away from bush,jr.

>

>

> Your question is based on a false

> premise and is not worthy of an answer

>

> Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

> .

A cop out....what I would expect from somone who wants us to cut and run

from a fight. My response is, if you do not want a fight on your hands,

don't make comments that illicit a response. And don't start a fight, that

you are not willing to finish.....

[Guest Jerry Okamura]

<rayadaps54@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:1187308429.702014.63570@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> On Aug 16, 4:17 pm, "Sid9" <s...@verizon.net> wrote:

>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> > "Sid9" <s...@verizon.net> wrote in message

>> >news:sN%wi.4645$jU4.315@trnddc02...

>> >> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>> >>> "Rich Travsky" <traRvE...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>> >>>news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>> >>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>

>> >>>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you

>> >>>>> going to answer me one of these days?

>>

>> >>>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>

>> >>> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen to

>> >>> ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on these

>> >>> newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of success. Use

>> >>> your own definition of success, then answer the question.

>>

>> >> There is no "success" in an

>> >> ill conceived enterprise that

>> >> was doomed from the it's

>> >> flawed concept

>>

>> > If you cannot achieve success, and if success is not important then we

>> > should not be there in the first place, and we should get the helll

>> > out of Dodge IMMEDIATELY. If success is not important, then it does

>> > not matte what Patreus has to say about progess, because success is

>> > not imporant or we cannot achieve success in any event, so why should

>> > the democrats wait until they hear from Patreus? Why aren't they

>> > taking aciton to get us our of Dodge IMMEDIATELY? Why do they keep

>> > throwing money at a problem that cannot be successful? Why didn't

>> > they cut off all funding for the effort in Iraq? Perhaps becuase they

>> > do not share your belief that success is not important, or because

>> > they do not share your belief that success in not possible?

>>

>> Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

>>

>> This is his party....no effort on your part will

>> shift responsibility away from bush,jr.

>>

>> The Republican line seems to be to try to

>> shift responsibility away from the creator.

>>

>> The creator of this mess and his Republican

>> cohorts- Hide quoted text -

>>

>> - Show quoted text -

>

> read the HISTORY of Iraq from 3300B.C. there have been MANY CONQUERORS

> of Iraq---ALL who had NO LONG-TERM SUCCESS in that region---

> Sumerians,Akkadians,Kassites,Elamites,Babylonians,Amorites,Hittites,Minnati,Hurrians,Aramerians,Assyrians,Scythians,Chaldians,Medes,Persians,Macedonians(Under

> Alexander the great),Seluciucids,Romans,Parthians,Sassinid

> Persians,Arabs(under the banner of Islam),Sejuk turks,Mongols,Ottoman

> Turks,french,British(Lawrence of Arabia),Short-lived nativist

> monarchys,Saddam Hussien,United States-------Get the

> Picture??? !!!!!!!!! History has PROVEN to Me beyond a shadow of a

> doubt that we will be just ANOTHER INEFFECTIVE CONQUEROR making NO

> LONG-TERM DIFFERENCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

 

That does not mean that it will happen again. It only means that it "might"

not be possible. But one thing I can guarantee, success is not possible, if

you give up.......

[Guest wbyeats@ireland.com]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 09:45:48 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>

>"Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>news:sW%wi.4651$jU4.2563@trnddc02...

>> wbyeats@ireland.com wrote:

>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 02:13:47 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"

>>> <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>>>

>>>>

>>>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>>

>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>>

>>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>>>>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>>

>>>>> Why?

>>>>>

>>>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>>>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of

>>>> them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be

>>>> achieved.

>>>

>>> I guess we need to make it simple. Success is not possible. The

>>> invasion of Iraq was stupid, unnecessary, ill-planned, and poorly

>>> executed. The US destabilized a country and had little if any plans

>>> for the consequences of what anyone with half a brain and a knowledge

>>> of the region knew would occur - sectarian strife. So the US has

>>> succeeded in starting an internal war and putting the US military

>>> right smack-dab in the middle. The stabilization of Iraq is a

>>> political battle - not military. If the soldiers leave then all hell

>>> breaks loose. If the soldiers stay, they continue to die for political

>>> (not military) reasons. Success is next to impossible so the soldiers

>>> should come home. That leaves the US in the untenable position of

>>> taking down a regime (no matter how evil and corrupt) and leaving

>>> nothing in return. It's our fault that Iraq is in the position we see

>>> today.

>>>

>>> WB Yeats

>>

>>

>> Well said.

>>

>> Looking out for American interests, we need to get out now.

>>

>> bush,jr wrecked America's reputation

>>

>> Out now, we can start to rebuild

>> our military and, with a new

>> administration, rebuild our place in the world.

>

>Why do we "have to rebuild" our military? What is the purpose of having a

>military? The purpose of having a military is (1) to defend our country it

>attacked, (2) to protect our access to vital resources, and (3) to use the

>military for humanitarian reasons. We do not have to have such a large

>military to defend this country. We do need a large military to protect our

>access to vital resouces. We "could" use our super power status to do some

>good.

 

We have to rebuild our military for all the reasons you list above

>But, Iraq does have a vital resource called oil....and we do not seem

>wiling to protect our access to that vital resource, then the logical

>question is, what vital resource are we willing to protect? And if we are

>not willing to use our super power status, while we are in the catbirds seat

>to try to make the people of the world live a better life, what does that

>say about our moral values? Besides, we don't seem to have the stomach for

>a fight, so what good is having a military when you do not have the stomach

>for the fight, that will happen when you use our military?

 

Your argument just fell apart. We had access to Iraqi oil prior to

Bush's folly. Most of that access is now gone. We are not giving the

people of the world a better life - we gave Iraq instability and

thousands dead. We gave them rubble in place of water and electricity.

We gave them promises of democracy which doesn't work without security

and full bellies. That says a lot about some folks' moral values - or

lack thereof. We have the stomach for a fight - just not a false one

for the greater glory of Wee Georgie.

 

WB Yeats

[Guest Sid9]

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:nh2xi.10226$Ns6.8606@trnddc01...

>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>>> news:sN%wi.4645$jU4.315@trnddc02...

>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>>>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you

>>>>>>> going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>>>>>>

>>>>> You either have not been reading my messages, or you have chosen

>>>>> to ignore my responses. I have defined success a lot of times on

>>>>> these newsgroups. Besides, you don't need my definition of

>>>>> success. Use your own definition of success, then answer the

>>>>> question.

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> There is no "success" in an

>>>> ill conceived enterprise that

>>>> was doomed from the it's

>>>> flawed concept

>>>>

>>>

>>> If you cannot achieve success, and if success is not important then

>>> we should not be there in the first place, and we should get the

>>> helll out of Dodge IMMEDIATELY. If success is not important, then

>>> it does not matte what Patreus has to say about progess, because

>>> success is not imporant or we cannot achieve success in any event,

>>> so why should the democrats wait until they hear from Patreus? Why

>>> aren't they taking aciton to get us our of Dodge IMMEDIATELY? Why

>>> do they keep throwing money at a problem that cannot be successful?

>>> Why didn't they cut off all funding for the effort in Iraq? Perhaps

>>> becuase they do not share your belief that success is not

>>> important, or because they do not share your belief that success in

>>> not possible?

>>

>>

>> Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

>

> I am asking you? Are you going to answer the quesiton?

>>

>> This is his party....no effort on your part will

>> shift responsibility away from bush,jr.

 

 

Your question is based on a false

premise and is not worthy of an answer

 

Ask the "Uniter Decider Commander in Chief"

..

 

>>

>> The Republican line seems to be to try to

>> shift responsibility away from the creator.

>>

>> The creator of this mess and his Republican

>> cohorts

>>

> I am doing no such thing. I have said, exactly what we should do, if

> success is not important or if success is not possible. Am I going

> to hear a response to the question I asked? Or are you going to "cut

> and run" from this confrontation, which seems to be the thing those

> of your ilk seem to like to do....

[Guest Sid9]

Jerry Okamura wrote:

> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

> news:fn2xi.10228$Ns6.6825@trnddc01...

>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>> "Sid9" <sid9@verizon.net> wrote in message

>>> news:i8_wi.7400$xc5.5582@trnddc06...

>>>> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>>>>> "Bokonon" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>>>>> news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>>>>>

>>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>>>>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from

>>>>>>> Iraq IMMEDIATELY.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Why?

>>>>>>

>>>>> You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible,

>>>>> then we are putting our military men and women in harms way, some

>>>>> of them dying everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot

>>>>> be achieved.

>>>>

>>>> Not we.

>>>> You.

>>>> bush,jr supporters of his fiasco.

>>>>

>>>

>>> Total foolishness. The "we" are the members of Congress, who "we"

>>> elected to represent us.

>>

>> The "Unitary Executive", a role

>> which bush,jr has taken for himself

>> is the "Uniter-Decider-Commander-in-Chief"

>>

>> He need only face up to facts

>> of the situation` on the ground

>> and take action.

>>

>> But, NO!

>

> You do not seem to have a basic understanding of how your own

> government works. The Congress holds the ultimate trump card. It

> does not matter what Bush wants to do, or does not want to do, in

> Iraq. "If" the Congress wants to stop the President, they can do

> that with one simple move....defund the money that is required to

> fund the effort. Have they done that? No, they have not... They

> did just the opposite, they provided the funding that the President

> requested. So, don't make such dumb statements.

>>

>> He waits for Petraeus to declare

>> victory and redeploy our troops

>> in the plan proposed over two

>> years ago and 1,500 death fewer

>> by John Murtha.

>

> And if he doesn't do that, then what are you going to say? Are we

> going to hear from you that your prediction was wrong?

>>

>> Your role here is a desperate

>> attempt to shift the blame away

>> from bush,jr and the Republicans.

>>

>> It wont work.

>>

>> The polls tell the story.

>>

>

> The polls do not tell anything. The "people" do not know if success

> is possbile or not possible. These are the same people who cannot

> tell you who the Vice President of the United States are, or cannot

> name most of the members of the US Supreme Court, or tell you who is

> the current Speaker of the House, or who is the majority leader in

> the Senate, much less who the minority leaders of both houses are.

> Besides, the polls also tell us that "we" do not want to lose

> either....

 

My predictions about

what would happen

after bush,jr was

awarded the presidency

have been right from

day one.

[Guest jose]

On Aug 15, 6:29 pm, "Verizon News Server" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Your question has a false premise.

>

> Success was never possible in Iraq.

> bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

>

> He should apologize, get our troops

> out of Iraq and promptly resign

> immediately after Cheney.

>

> President Pelosi should preside

> over a unity government until

> the next regular election.

>

> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>

> news:46c391f7$0$28893$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>

>

>

> > Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

> > answer me one of these days?

>

> > "Sid9" <s...@verizon.net> wrote in message

> >news:FsLwi.12933$jy5.2647@trnddc07...

> >> August 15, 2007

> >> Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250

> >> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

> >> Filed at 6:23 p.m. ET

>

> >> BAGHDAD (AP) -- Rescuers used bare hands and shovels Wednesday to claw

> >> through clay houses shattered by an onslaught of suicide bombings that

> >> killed at least 250 and possibly as many as 500 members of an ancient

> >> religious sect in the deadliest attack of the Iraq war.

>

> >> The U.S. military blamed al-Qaida in Iraq, and an American commander

> >> called the assault an ''act of ethnic cleansing.''

>

> >> The victims of Tuesday night's coordinated attack by four suicide bombers

> >> were Yazidis, a small Kurdish-speaking sect that has been targeted by

> >> Muslim extremists who consider its members to be blasphemers.

>

> >> The blasts in two villages near the Syrian border crumbled buildings,

> >> trapping entire families beneath mud bricks and other wreckage. Entire

> >> neighborhoods were flattened.

>

> >> ''This is an act of ethnic cleansing, if you will, almost genocide,''

> >> Army Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, commander of U.S. forces in northern Iraq,

> >> told CNN. He said that was evident from the fact Yazidis live in a remote

> >> part of Ninevah province that has been far from Iraq's conflict.

>

> >> Mixon said last month that he proposed reducing American troop levels in

> >> Ninevah and predicted the province would shift to Iraqi government

> >> control as early as this month. It was unclear whether that projection

> >> would hold after Tuesday's staggering casualties.

>

> >> Death estimates ranged widely.

>

> >> Zayan Othman, health minister for Iraq's nearby autonomous Kurdish

> >> region, said 250 bodies had been pulled from the rubble and some 350

> >> people were injured.

>

> >> But the death toll was put as high as 500 by some local officials,

> >> including Hashim al-Hamadani, a senior provincial security official;

> >> Kifah Mohammed, director of Sinjar hospital; and Iraqi army Capt.

> >> Mohammed Ahmed. They agreed with Othman that about 350 were wounded.

>

> >> None of the officials provided information on how they arrived at their

> >> estimates. The figures could not be independently checked because the

> >> area was under curfew and casualties had been taken to numerous

> >> hospitals.

>

> >> Even the lower death estimate far surpassed the previous bloodiest attack

> >> of the war -- 215 people killed by mortar fire and five car bombs in

> >> Baghdad's Shiite Muslim enclave of Sadr City last Nov. 23.

>

> >> U.S. officials believe insurgents have been regrouping across northern

> >> Iraq after being driven from strongholds in and around Baghdad, and the

> >> bombings coincided with the start of a major offensive by American and

> >> Iraqi troops against militants in the Diyala River Valley.

>

> >> The carnage dealt a serious blow to the Bush administrations hopes of

> >> presenting a positive picture in a progress report on Iraq to be

> >> delivered by the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, and U.S.

> >> Ambassador Ryan Crocker in about four weeks.

>

> >> Petraeus warned that he expected Sunni Arab insurgents to stage more

> >> spectacular attacks ahead of the report to Congress, whose members are

> >> deeply divided over whether to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq.

>

> >> ''This is way out by the Syrian border, an area where we do think in fact

> >> some suicide bombers are able to come across the border. It's an area

> >> that is very, very remote -- quite small villages out there -- and it was

> >> disheartening for us, too, obviously,'' Petraeus told The Associated

> >> Press in an interview.

>

> >> ''We've always said al-Qaida would try to carry out sensational attacks

> >> this month in particular,'' he added. ''We've had some success against

> >> them in certain areas, but we've also said they do retain the capability

> >> to carry out these horrific and indiscriminate attacks such as the ones

> >> yesterday. There will be more of that, tragically.''

>

> >> Minority sects such as the Yazidis are especially vulnerable as militants

> >> seek new targets to avoid the strict security measures clamped on Baghdad

> >> and surrounding areas to stop violence among warring Sunni and Shiite

> >> factions.

>

> >> Some Muslims and Christians consider an angel figure worshipped by

> >> Yazidis to be the devil, a charge the sect denies. The Islamic State in

> >> Iraq, an al-Qaida front group, distributed leaflets a week ago warning

> >> residents near the scene of Tuesday's bombings that an attack was

> >> imminent because Yazidis are ''anti-Islamic.''

>

> >> The sect also gained unwanted attention when some members stoned an

> >> 18-year-old Yazidi woman to death in April after she converted to Islam

> >> and fled her family with a Muslim boyfriend. Recent attacks on Yazidis

> >> have been blamed on al-Qaida-linked Sunni extremists seeking to avenge

> >> her death.

>

> >> The only Yazidi legislator in Iraq's 275-seat parliament called on the

> >> government to do more to protect the country's small communities.

>

> >> ''The ethnic and religious minorities do not have militias while all the

> >> powerful parties have strong militias in Iraq,'' Amin Farhan said. ''The

> >> government should protect these minorities by giving them weapons so that

> >> they can confront the terrorist groups.''

>

> >> Officials in northwestern Iraq called on people to donate blood and

> >> pleaded for aid as many families were left homeless after their houses

> >> collapsed in the bombings near Sinjar.

>

> >> ''The residents are appealing now to governmental and non-governmental

> >> organizations to help them with medicines, food, water and tents,''

> >> Farhan said. ''About 50 houses have completely collapsed over their

> >> families. Many of the victims have been badly dismembered. Rescuers are

> >> only finding pieces of dead bodies.''

>

> >> Dakhil Qassim, the Sinjar mayor, said the four truck bombers approached

> >> two areas in the town of Qahataniya, 75 miles west of Mosul, from dirt

> >> roads and all exploded within minutes of each other. He said the casualty

> >> toll was expected to rise.

>

> >> ''We are still digging with our hands and shovels because we can't use

> >> cranes because many of the houses were built of clay,'' Qassim said.

>

> >> Hospitals across the region were overwhelmed and only emergency vehicles

> >> were exempt from a curfew that was in place across towns west of Mosul,

> >> 225 miles northwest of Baghdad.

>

> >> Nurses dabbed the bloodied face of a young boy and held his hand as he

> >> wailed in pain. A toddler with bruised eyes had bandages wrapped around

> >> his head and arms.

>

> >> ''The car bombs that were used all had the consistent profile of al-Qaida

> >> in Iraq violence,'' a U.S. military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner,

> >> told reporters in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone.

>

> >> Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued a statement blaming the

> >> bombings on ''terrorism powers who seek to fuel sectarian strife and

> >> damage our people's national unity.''

>

> >> U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement strongly condemning

> >> the attack, saying ''nothing can justify such indiscriminate violence

> >> against innocent civilians.'' He urged Iraqi leaders to set aside

> >> political and religious differences to work together to protect

> >> civilians.

>

> >> Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 44 other people were killed or found dead

> >> Wednesday, including 24 bullet-riddled bodies of apparent victims of

> >> sectarian death squads usually run by Shiite militias. Five civilians

> >> also died in separate car bombings in the northern cities of Mosul and

> >> Kirkuk and the southern city of Hillah.

>

> >> Northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi civilians joined police to rise up against

> >> suspected al-Qaida-linked gunmen after a mortar attack in Buhriz. Eight

> >> gunmen and six civilians died in the fighting, police said.- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

 

Your hatred of GW has drained all reason

and sense from your peanut sized brain.

Do you actually think that Pelosi would

make a good president a woman who

can't even run the House?

 

Congress, thank the Almighty God, is

in recess. The country is safe for the

month of August.

[Guest Sid9]

jose wrote:

> On Aug 15, 6:29 pm, "Verizon News Server" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>> Your question has a false premise.

>>

>> Success was never possible in Iraq.

>> bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

>>

>> He should apologize, get our troops

>> out of Iraq and promptly resign

>> immediately after Cheney.

>>

>> President Pelosi should preside

>> over a unity government until

>> the next regular election.

>>

>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:46c391f7$0$28893$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>

>>

>>

>>> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going

>>> to answer me one of these days?

>>

>>> "Sid9" <s...@verizon.net> wrote in message

>>> news:FsLwi.12933$jy5.2647@trnddc07...

>>>> August 15, 2007

>>>> Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250

>>>> By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

>>>> Filed at 6:23 p.m. ET

>>

>>>> BAGHDAD (AP) -- Rescuers used bare hands and shovels Wednesday to

>>>> claw

>>>> through clay houses shattered by an onslaught of suicide bombings

>>>> that

>>>> killed at least 250 and possibly as many as 500 members of an

>>>> ancient religious sect in the deadliest attack of the Iraq war.

>>

>>>> The U.S. military blamed al-Qaida in Iraq, and an American

>>>> commander

>>>> called the assault an ''act of ethnic cleansing.''

>>

>>>> The victims of Tuesday night's coordinated attack by four suicide

>>>> bombers

>>>> were Yazidis, a small Kurdish-speaking sect that has been targeted

>>>> by

>>>> Muslim extremists who consider its members to be blasphemers.

>>

>>>> The blasts in two villages near the Syrian border crumbled

>>>> buildings,

>>>> trapping entire families beneath mud bricks and other wreckage.

>>>> Entire neighborhoods were flattened.

>>

>>>> ''This is an act of ethnic cleansing, if you will, almost

>>>> genocide,''

>>>> Army Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, commander of U.S. forces in

>>>> northern Iraq,

>>>> told CNN. He said that was evident from the fact Yazidis live in a

>>>> remote

>>>> part of Ninevah province that has been far from Iraq's conflict.

>>

>>>> Mixon said last month that he proposed reducing American troop

>>>> levels in Ninevah and predicted the province would shift to Iraqi

>>>> government

>>>> control as early as this month. It was unclear whether that

>>>> projection

>>>> would hold after Tuesday's staggering casualties.

>>

>>>> Death estimates ranged widely.

>>

>>>> Zayan Othman, health minister for Iraq's nearby autonomous Kurdish

>>>> region, said 250 bodies had been pulled from the rubble and some

>>>> 350

>>>> people were injured.

>>

>>>> But the death toll was put as high as 500 by some local officials,

>>>> including Hashim al-Hamadani, a senior provincial security

>>>> official;

>>>> Kifah Mohammed, director of Sinjar hospital; and Iraqi army Capt.

>>>> Mohammed Ahmed. They agreed with Othman that about 350 were

>>>> wounded.

>>

>>>> None of the officials provided information on how they arrived at

>>>> their estimates. The figures could not be independently checked

>>>> because the

>>>> area was under curfew and casualties had been taken to numerous

>>>> hospitals.

>>

>>>> Even the lower death estimate far surpassed the previous bloodiest

>>>> attack

>>>> of the war -- 215 people killed by mortar fire and five car bombs

>>>> in

>>>> Baghdad's Shiite Muslim enclave of Sadr City last Nov. 23.

>>

>>>> U.S. officials believe insurgents have been regrouping across

>>>> northern

>>>> Iraq after being driven from strongholds in and around Baghdad,

>>>> and the bombings coincided with the start of a major offensive by

>>>> American and

>>>> Iraqi troops against militants in the Diyala River Valley.

>>

>>>> The carnage dealt a serious blow to the Bush administrations

>>>> hopes of presenting a positive picture in a progress report on

>>>> Iraq to be

>>>> delivered by the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, and U.S.

>>>> Ambassador Ryan Crocker in about four weeks.

>>

>>>> Petraeus warned that he expected Sunni Arab insurgents to stage

>>>> more spectacular attacks ahead of the report to Congress, whose

>>>> members are

>>>> deeply divided over whether to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from

>>>> Iraq.

>>

>>>> ''This is way out by the Syrian border, an area where we do think

>>>> in fact

>>>> some suicide bombers are able to come across the border. It's an

>>>> area

>>>> that is very, very remote -- quite small villages out there -- and

>>>> it was disheartening for us, too, obviously,'' Petraeus told The

>>>> Associated

>>>> Press in an interview.

>>

>>>> ''We've always said al-Qaida would try to carry out sensational

>>>> attacks

>>>> this month in particular,'' he added. ''We've had some success

>>>> against

>>>> them in certain areas, but we've also said they do retain the

>>>> capability

>>>> to carry out these horrific and indiscriminate attacks such as the

>>>> ones yesterday. There will be more of that, tragically.''

>>

>>>> Minority sects such as the Yazidis are especially vulnerable as

>>>> militants

>>>> seek new targets to avoid the strict security measures clamped on

>>>> Baghdad

>>>> and surrounding areas to stop violence among warring Sunni and

>>>> Shiite factions.

>>

>>>> Some Muslims and Christians consider an angel figure worshipped by

>>>> Yazidis to be the devil, a charge the sect denies. The Islamic

>>>> State in

>>>> Iraq, an al-Qaida front group, distributed leaflets a week ago

>>>> warning residents near the scene of Tuesday's bombings that an

>>>> attack was

>>>> imminent because Yazidis are ''anti-Islamic.''

>>

>>>> The sect also gained unwanted attention when some members stoned an

>>>> 18-year-old Yazidi woman to death in April after she converted to

>>>> Islam

>>>> and fled her family with a Muslim boyfriend. Recent attacks on

>>>> Yazidis

>>>> have been blamed on al-Qaida-linked Sunni extremists seeking to

>>>> avenge

>>>> her death.

>>

>>>> The only Yazidi legislator in Iraq's 275-seat parliament called on

>>>> the government to do more to protect the country's small

>>>> communities.

>>

>>>> ''The ethnic and religious minorities do not have militias while

>>>> all the powerful parties have strong militias in Iraq,'' Amin

>>>> Farhan said. ''The government should protect these minorities by

>>>> giving them weapons so that

>>>> they can confront the terrorist groups.''

>>

>>>> Officials in northwestern Iraq called on people to donate blood and

>>>> pleaded for aid as many families were left homeless after their

>>>> houses collapsed in the bombings near Sinjar.

>>

>>>> ''The residents are appealing now to governmental and

>>>> non-governmental organizations to help them with medicines, food,

>>>> water and tents,''

>>>> Farhan said. ''About 50 houses have completely collapsed over their

>>>> families. Many of the victims have been badly dismembered.

>>>> Rescuers are

>>>> only finding pieces of dead bodies.''

>>

>>>> Dakhil Qassim, the Sinjar mayor, said the four truck bombers

>>>> approached

>>>> two areas in the town of Qahataniya, 75 miles west of Mosul, from

>>>> dirt

>>>> roads and all exploded within minutes of each other. He said the

>>>> casualty

>>>> toll was expected to rise.

>>

>>>> ''We are still digging with our hands and shovels because we can't

>>>> use

>>>> cranes because many of the houses were built of clay,'' Qassim

>>>> said.

>>

>>>> Hospitals across the region were overwhelmed and only emergency

>>>> vehicles

>>>> were exempt from a curfew that was in place across towns west of

>>>> Mosul, 225 miles northwest of Baghdad.

>>

>>>> Nurses dabbed the bloodied face of a young boy and held his hand

>>>> as he

>>>> wailed in pain. A toddler with bruised eyes had bandages wrapped

>>>> around

>>>> his head and arms.

>>

>>>> ''The car bombs that were used all had the consistent profile of

>>>> al-Qaida

>>>> in Iraq violence,'' a U.S. military spokesman, Brig. Gen. Kevin

>>>> Bergner,

>>>> told reporters in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone.

>>

>>>> Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issued a statement blaming the

>>>> bombings on ''terrorism powers who seek to fuel sectarian strife

>>>> and

>>>> damage our people's national unity.''

>>

>>>> U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon issued a statement strongly

>>>> condemning

>>>> the attack, saying ''nothing can justify such indiscriminate

>>>> violence

>>>> against innocent civilians.'' He urged Iraqi leaders to set aside

>>>> political and religious differences to work together to protect

>>>> civilians.

>>

>>>> Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 44 other people were killed or found

>>>> dead Wednesday, including 24 bullet-riddled bodies of apparent

>>>> victims of

>>>> sectarian death squads usually run by Shiite militias. Five

>>>> civilians

>>>> also died in separate car bombings in the northern cities of Mosul

>>>> and

>>>> Kirkuk and the southern city of Hillah.

>>

>>>> Northeast of Baghdad, Iraqi civilians joined police to rise up

>>>> against suspected al-Qaida-linked gunmen after a mortar attack in

>>>> Buhriz. Eight

>>>> gunmen and six civilians died in the fighting, police said.- Hide

>>>> quoted text -

>>

>> - Show quoted text -

>

> Your hatred of GW has drained all reason

> and sense from your peanut sized brain.

> Do you actually think that Pelosi would

> make a good president a woman who

> can't even run the House?

>

> Congress, thank the Almighty God, is

> in recess. The country is safe for the

> month of August.

 

I dispise incompetence.

 

This is THE most incompetent

government I have ever seen in my life

EVER.

[Guest jose]

On Aug 15, 4:38 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Verizon News Server" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote in messagenews:%TMwi.4490$jU4.2451@trnddc02...> Your question has a false premise.

>

> > Success was never possible in Iraq.

> > bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

>

> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

> IMMEDIATELY. Do you hear anyone making that demand? Do you hear the

> democrats who are the most vocal oppenent of the effort in Iraq make that

> demand? Do you hear any of the Democratic Presidential wannabees say that

> we should withdraw IMMEDIADETLY. Do you support the IMMEDIATE withdraw of

> our troops from Iraq? Why wait for the report from Patraeus? The longer

> you wait, more people die.....

 

You wont hear that from most Democrats and

especially not from the ten losers the Democrat

Party has running for the Oval Office.

 

Don't pay attention to the lunatics who hang out on

this NG. They are so filled with hatred for the

president and sedition for this country they spew

nonsense daily. Apparently they have nothing better

to do with their wasted lives. I see them like

Hippopotamuses taking a shit. They vigorously swing

their tail and splatter their feces all about them

while making a big mess for others to clean up.

 

Although the Democrat mascot is the jackass

I think a better, more descriptive mascot is the

Hippopotamus.

[Guest jose]

On Aug 15, 8:43 pm, "Al E. Gator" <ho...@yahoo.net> wrote:

> we should send all of you war supporting, gutless, yellow, cowards to iraq

> to quell the violence

> sort of a put up or shut up dose of reality"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>

> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>

>

>

>

>

> > "Verizon News Server" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

> >news:%TMwi.4490$jU4.2451@trnddc02...

> >> Your question has a false premise.

>

> >> Success was never possible in Iraq.

> >> bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

>

> > Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

> > IMMEDIATELY. Do you hear anyone making that demand? Do you hear the

> > democrats who are the most vocal oppenent of the effort in Iraq make that

> > demand? Do you hear any of the Democratic Presidential wannabees say that

> > we should withdraw IMMEDIADETLY. Do you support the IMMEDIATE withdraw of

> > our troops from Iraq? Why wait for the report from Patraeus? The longer

> > you wait, more people die.....- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

 

Well somebody has to go and defend this country

and obviously we can't count on wimps like you.

 

Always taking and never giving is the cowards path.

[Guest jose]

On Aug 15, 10:37 pm, Rich Travsky <traRvE...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:

> Jerry Okamura wrote:

>

> > Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

> > answer me one of these days?

>

> Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>

>

>

> > "Sid9" <s...@verizon.net> wrote in message

> >news:FsLwi.12933$jy5.2647@trnddc07...

> > > August 15, 2007

> > > Death Toll in Iraq Blasts Rises to 250- Hide quoted text -

>

> - Show quoted text -

 

I'll answer your question. Kill every radical Muslim on sight

until none remain to harm others.

[Guest jose]

On Aug 16, 8:20 am, "Al E. Gator" <ho...@yahoo.net> wrote:

> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>

> news:46c43f99$1$16472$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>

>

>

> > "Bokonon" <seattledemocr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> >news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>

> >> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

> >>news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>

> >>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

> >>> IMMEDIATELY.

>

> >> Why?

>

> > You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible, then we

> > are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of them dying

> > everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be achieved.

>

> "WE" ???

>

> you delusional armchair warrior gutless conservative hillbillies have been

> doing that for 4 1/2 years

>

> and we're not letting you losers,failures, and fuckups off the hook

 

Sedition is an ugly business.

[Guest jose]

On Aug 16, 8:26 am, "Al E. Gator" <ho...@yahoo.net> wrote:

> "Rich Travsky" <traRvE...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message

>

> news:46C3D47C.17097B7E@hotmMOVEail.com...

>

> > Jerry Okamura wrote:

>

> >> Is success in Iraq important or is it not important? Are you going to

> >> answer me one of these days?

>

> > Define success. Are you going to answer me one of these days?

>

> these conservatives have been losing,failing, and fucking up for 6 1/2 years

>

> they got theyselves onea them thar hillbilly presichimps and a hillbilly

> congress and things was gonna be a whole lot difrent from now on yall hear

> ??

>

> then they proceeded to do what retarded,bow legged,cross eyed goobers always

> do

>

> they fucked up everything they touched, stole everything they could,

> tried to turn America into the Hillbilly Reich and

>

> the results ?

>

> same as always, they got and are still getting their asses whipped

>

> where are those arrogant,know it all,insulting, denigrating,loud mouth

> faggots now ??

>

> sordo,frederick,stevens,marib,nixon, etc.

>

> trying to blame it all on liberals, and in their desperation and angst their

> true nature is starting to show

 

I assume you are a BJ Clinton fan.

[Guest Sid9]

jose wrote:

> On Aug 15, 8:43 pm, "Al E. Gator" <ho...@yahoo.net> wrote:

>> we should send all of you war supporting, gutless, yellow, cowards

>> to iraq

>> to quell the violence

>> sort of a put up or shut up dose of reality"Jerry Okamura"

>> <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>> "Verizon News Server" <s...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

>>> news:%TMwi.4490$jU4.2451@trnddc02...

>>>> Your question has a false premise.

>>

>>>> Success was never possible in Iraq.

>>>> bush,jr attacked the wrong country.

>>

>>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>>> IMMEDIATELY. Do you hear anyone making that demand? Do you hear

>>> the democrats who are the most vocal oppenent of the effort in Iraq

>>> make that demand? Do you hear any of the Democratic Presidential

>>> wannabees say that we should withdraw IMMEDIADETLY. Do you support

>>> the IMMEDIATE withdraw of our troops from Iraq? Why wait for the

>>> report from Patraeus? The longer you wait, more people die.....-

>>> Hide quoted text -

>>

>> - Show quoted text -

>

> Well somebody has to go and defend this country

> and obviously we can't count on wimps like you.

>

> Always taking and never giving is the cowards path.

 

Hummph.....a turd wrapped in our flag!

[Guest Figaro]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:52:37 -0000, jose <josefsoplar@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Aug 16, 8:20 am, "Al E. Gator" <ho...@yahoo.net> wrote:

>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>>

>> news:46c43f99$1$16472$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>

>>

>>

>> > "Bokonon" <seattledemocr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

>> >news:13c7pnhnp2imkd9@corp.supernews.com...

>>

>> >> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message

>> >>news:46c3aa88$0$18976$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>>

>> >>> Then if success is not possible, then we should withdraw from Iraq

>> >>> IMMEDIATELY.

>>

>> >> Why?

>>

>> > You need me to explain why? Beccause if success is not possible, then we

>> > are putting our military men and women in harms way, some of them dying

>> > everyday, trying to achieve something, that cannot be achieved.

>>

>> "WE" ???

>>

>> you delusional armchair warrior gutless conservative hillbillies have been

>> doing that for 4 1/2 years

>>

>> and we're not letting you losers,failures, and fuckups off the hook

>

>Sedition is an ugly business.

 

And that's straight from Horsey Soplar's mouth.