Holocaust Denial, American Style 29 Nov 2007

December 10, 2007

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:54:03 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>But it wont stop bigots from saying "saddam

>supported Islamic international terrorism" based on the single event

There weas no "single event" you lying moron:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm

Palestinians get Saddam funds

Iraq regularly parades volunteers to "liberate Palestine"

Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of

Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel.

Relatives of at least one suicide attacker as well as other militants

and civilians gathered in a hall in Gaza City to receive cheques.

"Iraq and Palestine are in one trench. Saddam is a hero," read a

banner over a picture of the Iraqi leader and Palestinian leader

Yasser Arafat at the ceremony.

With war looming in the Middle East, Palestinian speakers condemned

the United States and Israel, which dismissed the ceremony as support

for terrorism.

Saddam's payments

$10,000 per family

$25,000 for family of a suicide bomber

$35m paid since September 2000

PALF figures

One by one, at least 21 families came up to receive their cheques from

the Palestinian Arab Liberation Front (PALF), a local pro-Iraq group.

A Hamas suicide bomber's family got $25,000 while the others -

relatives of militants killed in fighting or civilians killed during

Israeli military operations - all received $10,000 each.

Another banner in the hall described the cheques as the "blessings of

Saddam Hussein" and PALF speakers extolled the Iraqi leader in fiery

speeches.

"Saddam Hussein considers those who die in martyrdom attacks as people

who have won the highest degree of martyrdom," said one.

The party estimated that Iraq had paid out $35m to Palestinian

families since the current uprising began in September 2000.

Saddam's avowed support for the Palestinians, and his missile attacks

on Israel during the Gulf War, have won him wide backing in the

territories.

December 10, 2007

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:57:53 -0500, "Snow" <snowonweb@hotmail.com>

mumbled:

> I am sure people in Iraq consider many acts of

>our western government a terrorist act,

Damn us for liberating them anyway...

December 10, 2007

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:43:34 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>We can criticise a Muslim for planting an IED in Iraq but not a so called

>"christian" for bombing a shopping centre in Manchester

Learn not to conflate disparate conflicts, you self-laothing moron.

December 11, 2007

"Western Road Co." <hydr@ulics.biz> wrote in message

news:f6kgl3hsguj00o2qqrrpmajr6tv9skgj5o@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 06 Dec 2007 11:08:31 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>

>>OPINION! Not evidence.

>

> YOU ARE A FUCKING LIAR!

>

> http://www.internet-grocer.net/weapons.htm

>

> Weapons of Mass Destruction HAVE been found in Iraq:

Not the WMD which they they claimed were the reason they invaded Iraq!

>

> 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium

THAT was found BY THE UN in 1991!

IT WAS NOT enriched!

IT was sealed by them in 1991!

>

> 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents

These are precursors not WMD but in any case

Where ? when? I dispute that 1,500 gallons of chemicals were known about

BEFORE the invasion and then located by the US after the invasion. Where are

these chemicals now kept? what tests were conducted on them? where is the

report of them being found?

>

> 17 chemical warheads containing cyclosarin (a nerve agent five times

> more deadly than sarin gas)

Where are these warheads? Where is the evidence theese were found by the US

between 2003 and now? As far as I know these were DECOMISSIONED in 1993/4 or

thereabouts by the UN!

>

> Over 1,000 radioactive materials in powdered form meant for dispersal

> over populated areas

Again where are these radioactives? how do you know about the dispersal

method? In fact it would be easire for Iraq to go into thUS science labs and

hospitals for example and steal these type of Radioactives than to

accumulate them in Iraq for dispersal to the US or elsewhere.

>

> Roadside bombs loaded with mustard and "conventional" sarin gas,

> assembled in binary chemical projectiles for maximum potency

I havent seen any evidence for these either! Where is it? You used a media

term didnt you? What is a "roadside" bomb?

>

> http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={A91FEE10-D98F-4EAA-8CA5-73DCD65234D2}

[snip] - QED>

> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

>

> WASHINGTON - The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq

> since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be

> uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

Snip QED

LOL a student found a bucket of 500 empty bullet casings picked from a

firing in a MALL I suppose you would run with the storyline "Student found

with 500 weapons of death in Shopping Mall"

December 11, 2007

"messenger" <list@adrian.of> wrote in message

news:ab8rl3tbhmeeqmnv1bjemd6n8ui3bc7js5@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:43:34 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>

>>We can criticise a Muslim for planting an IED in Iraq but not a so called

>>"christian" for bombing a shopping centre in Manchester

>

> Learn not to conflate disparate conflicts, you self-laothing moron.

What do you mean by "conflating disparate conflicts"? Is terrorism suddenly

alright when someone else does it and only wrong when Islamists do it?

Learn what being "relativist" in your definition as to what is morally wrong

means!

December 11, 2007

"messenger" <list@adrian.of> wrote in message

news:2a8rl31bhouqrq7pnqun2a5nilpmfv10ef@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 05:57:53 -0500, "Snow" <snowonweb@hotmail.com>

> mumbled:

>

>> I am sure people in Iraq consider many acts of

>>our western government a terrorist act,

>

> Damn us for liberating them anyway...

What did you "fee" Iraq from?

WMD? ... I don't see where these were? Where were they?

Islamists? there were none running Iraq. since then the US have done deals

to turn a blind eye to some of them e.g. the Mhadi Army!

A dictator? One you SUPPORTED for decades?

Maybe you freed them from oil, water electrical power and the shackles of

"due legal process"?

December 11, 2007

"messenger" <list@adrian.of> wrote in message

news:268rl3dc375rlhao1rea74rkil2n7b2ls5@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:54:03 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>

>>But it wont stop bigots from saying "saddam

>>supported Islamic international terrorism" based on the single event

>

> There weas no "single event" you lying moron:

>

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm

>

> Palestinians get Saddam funds

>

> Iraq regularly parades volunteers to "liberate Palestine"

> Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of

> Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel.

> Relatives of at least one suicide attacker as well as other militants

> and civilians gathered in a hall in Gaza City to receive cheques.

this is the venet to which I refer!

Have you examples of MORE of them?

[snip]

SINGLE EVENT!

December 11, 2007

"Merlin" <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

news:ada6a1de-e0a3-4bd9-9b63-7cc4070bcaf6@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...

> On Dec 9, 10:35 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

>> "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

>>

>> news:05e2c2d1-cf0a-46c8-8eb3-873a5f0c6c8c@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> > On Dec 8, 8:42 pm, Rid Skewrr <cal...@creek.council> wrote:

>> >> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:47:47 -0800 (PST), Merlin

>> >> <johndo...@fastmail.fm> mumbled:

>>

>> >> >On Dec 4, 5:46 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

>>

>> >> >> BEFORE the US occupation there was not Al Qaeda or any

>> >> >> other Islamists groups of note in Iraq!

>> >> >> the US occupation facilitated rather than mitigated against

>> >> >> Islamists!

>>

>> >> >You love to try that meaningless bit of information in almost all of

>> >> >your posts.

>>

>> >> >You're wrong. One has nothing to do with the other.

>>

>> >> >What an idiot you are for not seeing so.

>>

>> >> You're dealing with a deluded liar - no reason in there to access.

>>

>> > You're right of course. I've shown be-a-con the door. He can't debate

>> > without his little tricks. Strip the tricks away and he's just another

>> > idiot.

>>

>> Of course Bigots will always agree with each other. No matter how much

>> you

>> want to believe in WMD, Islamists ,space aliens or Unicorns in Saddam

>> controlled Iraq it won't make them true.

>>

>> My "tricks" by the way are called "standard rules for debating" and

>> "pointing to logical fallacies"

>>

>> I could of course easily have a host of sock puppets agreeing with me but

>> that would not make what I claim objectively true either would it?

>>

>> At least Merlin sticks (mostly) to one identity and isn't a persistent

>> troll

>> or spammer.

>

> No, I'm not a troll or a spammer.

That is something on which we can at least agree.

>

> Your tricks are just that; tricks that you use to win.

Nope! it isnt about winning for me. I am prepared to shift position if shown

to be in error.

But if you care to list these so called "tricks"? to what do you refer?

>

> You only answer with questions.

No I ask a lot of questions of the claimant. this is NOT a trick. I rarely

make claims and when I do I BACK THEM UP with evidence or withdraw them and

state they are OPINION and NOT FACT!

I usually ask OTHER PEOPLE about the evidence to support THEIR CLAIMS! There

is not trick to that.

>

> You never answer anyones questions that would define you to one point

> of view or another.

This is not true. I SOMETIMES express my opinion. I am VERY CAREFUL not to

make unsupported claims. This obviously flows form the fact that I usually

am about the job of exposing the unsupported claims of others. It is also

tantamount to you SHIFTING THE BURDEN.

I am not the loudmouth making unsupported claims! I am the loudmouth saying

"where is your evidence?" It isnt for me to show where MY evidence is or to

prove a negative.

>

> You repeat the same LOADED questions OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER

> until you wear a person down, who then leaves the silly argument and

> you claim victory.

It isnt a point about claiming victory for me! It is about exposing

unsupported claims! for example I continually ask where is the evidence for

WMD and where is the evidence for Saddam supporting Al Qaeda. Why ? Becaouse

OTHER PEOPE continually claim it to be a fact!

If you feel wond down because you cant support claims of WMD and Islamists

supported by Saddam then don't you think you might be misguided in your

unsupported belief?

>

> You're full of shit.

Well that is an OPINION! You are intitled to it but it is ad hominem!

Nothing to do with the issue of WMD.

>

> You've yet to ever win with me. You run away when I demand that you

> answer MY questions.

Which questions? Care to list three of them? to do with claims I have made?

December 11, 2007

On Dec 10, 3:31 pm, messenger <l...@adrian.of> wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:32:12 -0800 (PST), Merlin

> <johndo...@fastmail.fm> mumbled:

>

> >On Dec 9, 10:31 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

> >> "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

>

> >>news:867a7f1d-155f-4d57-b0d7-f42359f28241@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

>

> >> > On Dec 4, 5:46 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

>

> >> >> BEFORE the US occupation there was not Al Qaeda or any

> >> >> other Islamists groups of note in Iraq!

> >> >> the US occupation facilitated rather than mitigated against Islamists!

>

> >> > You love to try that meaningless bit of information in almost all of

> >> > your posts.

>

> >> > You're wrong.

>

> >> Where is you support for the claim of Islamists having substantial control

> >> in Saddam controlled Iraq?

>

> >Show me a quote where I said that.

>

> >As soon as you've done this, I'll answer you.

>

> Lol, closing this one out...

You're right. I've stumped the idiot. He always claims shit he can't

back up.

This is just another example of what you need to do to stop his

bullshit tricks.

December 11, 2007

On Dec 11, 8:51 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

> "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

>

> news:ada6a1de-e0a3-4bd9-9b63-7cc4070bcaf6@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...

>

> > On Dec 9, 10:35 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

> >> "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

>

> >>news:05e2c2d1-cf0a-46c8-8eb3-873a5f0c6c8c@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>

> >> > On Dec 8, 8:42 pm, Rid Skewrr <cal...@creek.council> wrote:

> >> >> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 08:47:47 -0800 (PST), Merlin

> >> >> <johndo...@fastmail.fm> mumbled:

>

> >> >> >On Dec 4, 5:46 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

>

> >> >> >> BEFORE the US occupation there was not Al Qaeda or any

> >> >> >> other Islamists groups of note in Iraq!

> >> >> >> the US occupation facilitated rather than mitigated against

> >> >> >> Islamists!

>

> >> >> >You love to try that meaningless bit of information in almost all of

> >> >> >your posts.

>

> >> >> >You're wrong. One has nothing to do with the other.

>

> >> >> >What an idiot you are for not seeing so.

>

> >> >> You're dealing with a deluded liar - no reason in there to access.

>

> >> > You're right of course. I've shown be-a-con the door. He can't debate

> >> > without his little tricks. Strip the tricks away and he's just another

> >> > idiot.

>

> >> Of course Bigots will always agree with each other. No matter how much

> >> you

> >> want to believe in WMD, Islamists ,space aliens or Unicorns in Saddam

> >> controlled Iraq it won't make them true.

>

> >> My "tricks" by the way are called "standard rules for debating" and

> >> "pointing to logical fallacies"

>

> >> I could of course easily have a host of sock puppets agreeing with me but

> >> that would not make what I claim objectively true either would it?

>

> >> At least Merlin sticks (mostly) to one identity and isn't a persistent

> >> troll

> >> or spammer.

>

> > No, I'm not a troll or a spammer.

>

> That is something on which we can at least agree.

>

> > Your tricks are just that; tricks that you use to win.

>

> Nope! it isnt about winning for me. I am prepared to shift position if shown

> to be in error.

>

> But if you care to list these so called "tricks"? to what do you refer?

Everyone who has entered into one of the threads you bullshit in knows

how you operate. You know as well. I'm not explaining the obvious to

you.

> > You only answer with questions.

>

> No I ask a lot of questions of the claimant. this is NOT a trick. I rarely

> make claims and when I do I BACK THEM UP with evidence or withdraw them and

> state they are OPINION and NOT FACT!

BULLSHIT

>

> I usually ask OTHER PEOPLE about the evidence to support THEIR CLAIMS! There

> is not trick to that.

BULLSHIT

> > You never answer anyones questions that would define you to one point

> > of view or another.

>

> This is not true. I SOMETIMES express my opinion. I am VERY CAREFUL not to

> make unsupported claims. This obviously flows form the fact that I usually

> am about the job of exposing the unsupported claims of others. It is also

> tantamount to you SHIFTING THE BURDEN.

BULLSHIT

>

> I am not the loudmouth making unsupported claims! I am the loudmouth saying

> "where is your evidence?" It isnt for me to show where MY evidence is or to

> prove a negative.

BULLSHIT

> > You repeat the same LOADED questions OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER

> > until you wear a person down, who then leaves the silly argument and

> > you claim victory.

>

> It isnt a point about claiming victory for me! It is about exposing

> unsupported claims! for example I continually ask where is the evidence for

> WMD and where is the evidence for Saddam supporting Al Qaeda. Why ? Becaouse

> OTHER PEOPE continually claim it to be a fact!

BULLSHIT

> If you feel wond down because you cant support claims of WMD and Islamists

> supported by Saddam then don't you think you might be misguided in your

> unsupported belief?

Explain what you mean by "If you feel wond down". The phrase is

meaningless. Much of what you post is the same. You type without

giving a fuck what letters you type on your keyboard and then expect

everyone to try to decipher your crap. SPELL CHECK. GRAMMER CHECK. If

English isn't your first languge, then have someone who knows English

type for you.

NO, THIS IS NOT A SPELLING FLAME. A SPELLING FLAME IS PICKING ON A

SELDOM OCCURING EVENT. YOU'RE MISSPELLED, MEANINGLESS WORDS ARE DOZENS

IN EACH POST. QUIT BEING A LAZY ASSHOLE AND DO A FUCKING SPELL CHECK.

> > You're full of shit.

>

> Well that is an OPINION! You are intitled to it but it is ad hominem!

> Nothing to do with the issue of WMD.

No, it's not ad hominem, (your pet phrase), it's FACT. Proven by YOU

to EVERYONE.

> > You've yet to ever win with me. You run away when I demand that you

> > answer MY questions.

>

> Which questions? Care to list three of them? to do with claims I have made?

Yeah, sure, asshole. I'm going to back up and look for the fucking

questions you avoided in every instance. Not hardly.

Everyone who has posted replies to you knows that you NEVER answer

questions that differ from your statements. It's your TRICKS.

Look here asshole, you're a scumbag to me. I wouldn't piss in your

mouth if your fucking teeth were on fire.

I'll challange you EVERY time I see one of your bullshit posts.

GET USED TO IT.

YOU'RE A PHONEY COCKSUCKER. YOU TALK BULLSHIT. YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT.

YOU'RE A PROVEN LIAR.

Get used to people knowing you.

You're name is BE-A-CON

That's because all you do is try to CON people.

December 11, 2007

"Merlin" <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

news:4faff4ef-9cbb-4851-ab93-e7aa5b34ae05@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> On Dec 9, 10:31 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

>> "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

>>

>> news:867a7f1d-155f-4d57-b0d7-f42359f28241@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

>>

>> > On Dec 4, 5:46 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

>>

>> >> BEFORE the US occupation there was not Al Qaeda or any

>> >> other Islamists groups of note in Iraq!

>> >> the US occupation facilitated rather than mitigated against Islamists!

>>

>> > You love to try that meaningless bit of information in almost all of

>> > your posts.

>>

>> > You're wrong.

>>

>> Where is you support for the claim of Islamists having substantial

>> control

>> in Saddam controlled Iraq?

>

> Show me a quote where I said that.

>

> As soon as you've done this, I'll answer you.

You have comprehension problems.

It is only TWO LINES ABOVE! LOL!

[your words]

You love to try that meaningless bit of information in almost all of

your posts.

[end quote]

And the piece of information to which you refer was:

BEFORE the US occupation there was not Al Qaeda or any

other Islamists groups of note in Iraq!

i.e. I claim that Saddam didn't want and worked against Islamists in Iraq.

That effectively there were not any in power.

You claim that this is not a valid claim.

I ask you to show me where I am wrong then. show me examples of Islamists in

control of Saddams Iraq. I do NOT mean the no fly zone of Kurdish controlled

Iraq but where Saddams military had their sphere of influence. that's why I

mentioned "Saddam controlled"

then you ask me to show where you had claimed I was wrong and that there

were Islamists in Saddam controlled Iraq. By default you have shot yourself

in the foot by asking me to show a quote where you claim that i am wrong in

the assertion that there we not Islamists in control in Saddams Iraq!

December 11, 2007

"messenger" <list@adrian.of> wrote in message

news:lm1rl31ir2k533pru17hfu2ih2vjlet073@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:32:12 -0800 (PST), Merlin

> <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> mumbled:

>

>>On Dec 9, 10:31 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

>>> "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

>>>

>>> news:867a7f1d-155f-4d57-b0d7-f42359f28241@w40g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

>>>

>>> > On Dec 4, 5:46 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote:

>>>

>>> >> BEFORE the US occupation there was not Al Qaeda or any

>>> >> other Islamists groups of note in Iraq!

>>> >> the US occupation facilitated rather than mitigated against

>>> >> Islamists!

>>>

>>> > You love to try that meaningless bit of information in almost all of

>>> > your posts.

>>>

>>> > You're wrong.

>>>

>>> Where is you support for the claim of Islamists having substantial

>>> control

>>> in Saddam controlled Iraq?

>>

>>Show me a quote where I said that.

>>

>>As soon as you've done this, I'll answer you.

>

> Lol, closing this one out...

yeah close tyhe door on your way out

December 11, 2007

"Merlin" <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> wrote in message

news:c97910af-01a5-4fcd-8f56-a9e5d6142627@o6g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...

> On Dec 10, 3:31 pm, messenger <l...@adrian.of> wrote:

>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:32:12 -0800 (PST), Merlin

>> <johndo...@fastmail.fm> mumbled:

>>

[snip]

>

> You're right. I've stumped the idiot. He always claims shit he can't

> back up.

No I dont! In fact I rarely make claims at all.

Here is a claim I do make.

BEFORE the US occupation there was not Al Qaeda or any

other Islamists groups of note in Iraq!

The US occupation facilitated rather than mitigated against Islamists!

[end claim]

All you need to do is show some evidence of Islamists in SADDAM CONTROLLED

Iraq being supported by him1

Come on? Cant you show ANY evidecen od Al Qaeda n Iraq in 2002? Of saddam

assisting them?

>

> This is just another example of what you need to do to stop his

> bullshit tricks.

>

December 11, 2007

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:51:41 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>Snip QED

done.

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?id=12525

It's become a Liberal "article of faith" that Iraq had no weapons of

mass destruction and no intention to build them, despite all the

evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed and used them many times. When

the CIA didn't immediately uncover huge stockpiles of illegal weapons,

critics of Iraqi liberation were able to push the false meme that

Saddam never had WMDs in the first place, or secretly disposed of them

long ago, or that he was "contained" by UN sanctions. With the US

invasion of Iraq telegraphed for well over a year in advance, it

boggles the mind that Liberals still refuse to even consider the

possibility that Saddam moved or hid whatever WMD materials he had to

prevent them from being discovered.

The idea that every inch of Iraq has been examined and pronounced

clean is ludicrous. Reports are still coming in of storage sites that

were completely ignored by the Iraq Survey Group, which concentrated

heavily on previously known WMD storage sites. Simple common sense

would tell anyone that a place marked on every inspector's map "WMD

Storage Facility" might not be the best place to hide your WMDs.

Instead, something like buried and locked concrete bunkers not marked

on any map might be a more likely location. Lo and behold, several

such sites were reported to the ISG... and totally ignored.

David Gaubatz, a former member of the Air Force's Office of Special

Investigations, was assigned to intelligence research. He was shown

four sealed underground concrete bunkers in southern Iraq with the

tunnels leading to them deliberately flooded. His sources told him

that the facilities had contained stockpiles of biological and

chemical weapons. He filed reports with photographs, grid coordinates,

and testimony from multiple sources. But the ISG never unsealed the

bunkers. "We agents begged and begged for weeks and months to get ISG

to respond to the sites with the proper equipment," Gaubatz told the

NY Sun. Yet the ISG felt comfortable filing a final report, in effect

closing the case.

Several sources have previously indicated that Saddam sent some WMDs

and equipment related to chemical and biological weapons production to

Syria and Lebanon in the months preceding the US invasion. In May

2003, DEBKAfile reported that "the relocation of Iraq's WMD systems

took place between January 10 and March 10 and was completed just 10

days before the US-led offensive was launched against Iraq." CIA

satellite imagery showed "convoys of Iraqi trucks that poured into

Syria in February and March 2003."

David Kay, original head of the Iraq Survey group, reported that "we

know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a

lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some

components of Saddam's WMD program." Among the things left behind, Kay

reported finding a "clandestine network of laboratories and

safehouses," and "a prison laboratory complex... that Iraqi officials

working to prepare for UN inspections were explicitly ordered not to

declare to the UN." The ISG's investigation revealed "new research on

BW-applicable agents, Brucella and Congo Crimean Hemorrhagic Fever

(CCHF), and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin." Charles Duelfer,

who replaced David Kay as head of the ISG, wrote in his final report

that, "ISG received information about movement of material out of

Iraq, including the possibility that WMD was involved... these reports

were sufficiently credible to merit further investigation." Senator

Pat Roberts, (R-KS), chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence,

even acknowledged that "there is some concern that shipments of WMD

went to Syria."

John Shaw, former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for International

Technology Security, has charged that Saddam's WMD stockpiles were

moved by Russian special forces into Syria and Lebanon. According to

Shaw, former Russian intelligence head Yevgeny Primakov supervised the

removal operations. GRU military intelligence and Russian "spetsnaz"

(special forces) troops moved Saddam's WMDs to Syria by truck

beginning in December 2002.

Former Iraqi Air Force General Georges Sada has come forward to

corroborate and supplement these reports. Sada stated that hundreds of

tons of chemicals were smuggled into Syria as early as June 2002,

under cover of humanitarian aid to flood victims. Two commercial jets,

a 747 and 727, were used to move the WMDs and banned material. "They

used to do two sorties a day," said Sada. "Fifty-six sorties were done

between Baghdad and Damascus."

Twelve hours of unclassified tapes were recently released to the

public by the Intelligence Summit, a non-profit group headed by former

Federal prosecutor John Loftus. The contents of the tapes make it

clear that Saddam Hussein was determined to retain as much of his WMD

capability as could be hidden from the UN weapons inspectors. The job

of the inspectors, however, was not to discover what was hidden, but

to verify what Iraq claimed to have destroyed. In 1991, Iraq was given

three months to surrender or destroy everything related to weapons of

mass destruction.

According to the tapes, Iraq did seem to have an active nuclear

program as late as the year 2000. Iraqi scientists were working on

enriching uranium using the plasma separation method. On one tape, Dr.

Thamir Ma'aman Mawdud reported to Saddam on "the production we

achieved in the advanced stages at the end of the Nineties." Mawdud

went on to say that "activity hasn't died in plasma because it is

allowed in some of the tests which we use. Then, sir, according to

what we have done in the Iraqi National Laboratory in building plasma

activity, we have a very large industrial base... We have built a

factory to produce plasma systems... the truth is the applied activity

is present and found in the industrial sector, and not only in the

Military Industrial Commission, but in the Atomic Energy Agency, under

Dr. Amer [Rashid al-Ubaydi]."

December 11, 2007

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:51:42 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>WMD? ... I don't see where these were? Where were they?

http://www.command-post.org/oped/2_archives/015496.html

Interview With Gen. Michael DeLong

In his new book, Inside CentCom: The Unvarnished Truth About the Wars

in Afghanistan and Iraq, retired Gen. Michael DeLong

December 11, 2007

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:51:42 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>

>"messenger" <list@adrian.of> wrote in message

>news:268rl3dc375rlhao1rea74rkil2n7b2ls5@4ax.com...

>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:54:03 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>>

>>>But it wont stop bigots from saying "saddam

>>>supported Islamic international terrorism" based on the single event

>>

>> There weas no "single event" you lying moron:

>>

>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2846365.stm

>>

>> Palestinians get Saddam funds

>>

>> Iraq regularly parades volunteers to "liberate Palestine"

>> Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of

>> Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel.

>> Relatives of at least one suicide attacker as well as other militants

>> and civilians gathered in a hall in Gaza City to receive cheques.

>

>this is the venet to which I refer!

>

>Have you examples of MORE of them?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,779359,00.html

A radical armed Islamist group with ties to Tehran and Baghdad has

helped al-Qaida establish an international terrorist training camp in

northern Iraq, Kurdish officials say.

Intelligence officers in the autonomous Kurdish region of Iraq told

the Guardian that the Ansar al-Islam (supporters of Islam) group is

harbouring up to 150 al-Qaida members in a string of villages it

controls along the Iraq-Iran border.

Most of them fled Afghanistan after the US-led offensive, but

officials from the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), which controls

part of north-east Iraq, claim an "abnormal" number of recruits are

making their way to the area from Jordan, Syria and Egypt. "They are

being trained for terrorist operations within the Kurdish region and

beyond, possibly Europe," one said.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-levitt020603.asp

TERROR TO GO

Zarqawi's own movements are themselves telling. After being wounded in

the leg in Afghanistan, Zarqawi escaped to Iran. While there, he

dispatched two Palestinians and a Jordanian who entered Turkey

illegally from Iran on their way to conduct bombing attacks in Israel.

The three, members of Beyyiat el-Imam (a group linked to al Qaeda) who

fought for the Taliban and received terrorist training in Afghanistan,

were intercepted and arrested by Turkish police on February 15, 2002.

From Iran Zarqawi traveled to Iraq in May 2002, where his wounded leg

was amputated and the limb fitted with a prosthetic device. He spent

two months recovering in Baghdad, at which time "nearly two dozen

extremists converged on Baghdad and established a base of operations

there." Powell informed that "these Al Qaida affiliates, based in

Baghdad, now coordinate the movement of people, money and supplies

into and throughout Iraq for his network, and they've now been

operating freely in the capital for more than eight months."

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9513/

Has Iraq sponsored terrorism?

Yes. Saddam Hussein

December 11, 2007

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:51:42 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>

>"messenger" <list@adrian.of> wrote in message

>news:ab8rl3tbhmeeqmnv1bjemd6n8ui3bc7js5@4ax.com...

>> On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 11:43:34 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>>

>>>We can criticise a Muslim for planting an IED in Iraq but not a so called

>>>"christian" for bombing a shopping centre in Manchester

>>

>> Learn not to conflate disparate conflicts, you self-laothing moron.

>

>What do you mean by "conflating disparate conflicts"?

What do you wilfully FAIL to comprehend?

They are 2 totally DIFFERENT situations.

Muslime vs. the West.

Catholic vs. Protestant.

Grow a brain.

December 11, 2007

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 13:51:42 GMT, "Mavisbeacon"

<Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled:

>It isnt a point about claiming victory for me! It is about exposing

>unsupported claims! for example I continually ask where is the evidence for

>WMD

http://pajamasmedia.com/2006/09/_exclusive_secret_iraq_wmd_rep.php