Guest Fritz Katzenjammer Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:03:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >news:rfgan3h2af1kes1msugo2fepuviagdsege@4ax.com... >> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >> >[snip] >>>[snip racist ad hominem] >>> >>>so you can't find anything to support >> >> Did, done, posted, denied. > >No it wasnt! LIAR! Quote
Guest Fritz Katzenjammer Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:06:46 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >news:rfgan3h2af1kes1msugo2fepuviagdsege@4ax.com... >> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >> >[snip] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>You have NOT provided evidence to proved that Saddam was working >>>>>>>>>with >>>>>>>>>Islamic terrorists as was promised or that he had WMD in Iraq just >>>>>>>>>before >>>>>>>>>the invasion as was promised! >>>>>>>> > >Fritz you haven't provided evidence and like all the others who haven't you >will not be posting within a matter of days. Be-A-Con you stupid fuckwit, SHADDUP! I'll do precisely what I choose! http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200410%5CNAT20041011a.html CNSNews.com) - When CNSNews.com published an article Monday, Oct. 4, entitled, "Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties," we decided against publishing all 42 pages of the Iraqi intelligence documents in our possession and on which the article was based. We published only the first page, fearing that if more were made widely available on the Internet, they might end up being altered or otherwise manipulated. We offered credentialed news organizations and counter-terrorism experts the opportunity to view and receive copies of the documents so that they might check for themselves on the authenticity of the documents and judge their importance in the debate over whether Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and/or had ties to international terrorist organizations. Several news organizations did just that. But in light of other assertions on Wednesday, widely reported by the mainstream media, that Saddam did not pose any significant threat prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, we felt it was time to publish as many of the Iraqi intelligence documents as possible. What follows are copies of 30 of the 42 pages that are in our possession. Pages 29 through 40 were excluded because they replicate, though in a different person's handwriting, earlier documents. Upon clicking on the individual pages of Arabic documents, readers will have an opportunity to click on the unedited English translation of those documents. We hope this serves to further illuminate a very important element of the ongoing debate. Page 1: Jan. 18, 1993 memo from Saddam Hussein, through his secretary, to the Iraqi Intelligence Service, urging that missions be undertaken to "hunt down Americans," especially in Somalia. Pages 2-12: Jan. 25, 1993 memo from the Iraqi Intelligence Service to Saddam Hussein, outlining the existing or developing relationships between Iraq and terrorist organizations. Page 2 Page 3 Page 4 Page 5 Page 6 Page 7 Page 8 Page 9 Page 10 Page 11 Page 12 Page 13: Feb. 8, 1993 response from Saddam Hussein to the Jan. 25, 1993 memo. Pages 14, 15: March 11, 1993 memo from the Iraqi Intelligence Service detailing plans for a meeting with "one of the leaders from the Egyptian Al-Jehad" terrorist organization. Page 14 Page 15 Page 16: March 16, 1993 response from Saddam's secretary to the March 11, 1993 memo. Pages 17, 18: March 18, 1993 memo from the Iraqi Intelligence Service detailing plans to "move against the Egyptian regime" of Hosni Mubarak. Page 17 Page 18 Pages 19-20: Iraqi Intelligence Service internal memos regarding the information of individuals who participated at "the martyr act camp" belonging to the Iraqi intelligence directorate. Page 19 Page 20 Pages 21-26: They comprise a list of terrorists trained at a camp belonging to the Iraqi Intelligence Directorate. Page 21 Page 22 Page 23 Page 24 Page 25 Page 26 Pages 27, 28: Notes from the Iraqi Intelligence Service outlining strategies. Included is the assessment that terrorist "efforts should be concentrated on Egypt." The notes also advise against targeting the U.S. military, but recommend targeting "Americans as general" as well as "US agents inside the (Egyptian) regime." Page 27 Page 28 Page 29-40: Duplicative of pages 2-12, except in a different person's handwriting. Page 41: Table indicating Sept. 6, 2000 acquisition of malignant pustule (anthrax) as well as sterilization/decontamination equipment. Page 42: Table indicating Aug. 21, 2000 acquisition of mustard gas as well as protective equipment. Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 "Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message news:7b4bn3tie8apcnbpq084r66kb3ljsmk3bc@4ax.com... > On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:03:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" > <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >> >>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>news:rfgan3h2af1kes1msugo2fepuviagdsege@4ax.com... >>> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>> >>[snip] >>>>[snip racist ad hominem] >>>> >>>>so you can't find anything to support >>> >>> Did, done, posted, denied. >> >>No it wasnt! > > LIAR! If you actually posted evidence that stands up I would admit it. all you posted was a reference from a blogger site which quoted a single news piece! the news piece in turn quoted Colin Powell. Powell later CHANGED his story! You didn't post evidence! You posted spin and aberration! I posted evidence: http://intelligence.senate.gov/prewar.pdf page ten shows that they assessed BEFORE the invasion of Iraq that invading Iraq would NOT CHANGE any WMD efforts in neighbouring countries. http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf from page 52 and page 105 show NO evidence of WMD and no links to al Qaeda! That's from the OFFICIAL US reports! go and read it! it ADMITS they got it WRONG! But you prefer to forget what the FBI CIA Homeland Security etc. say after their exhaustive review of tens of millions of pages of documents and hours of film and photographic evidence don't you? You prefer to go with the bigots and the bloggers don't you? Quote
Guest Fritz Katzenjammer Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:52:08 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >news:7b4bn3tie8apcnbpq084r66kb3ljsmk3bc@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:03:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >> >>> >>>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>>news:rfgan3h2af1kes1msugo2fepuviagdsege@4ax.com... >>>> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>>> >>>[snip] >>>>>[snip racist ad hominem] >>>>> >>>>>so you can't find anything to support >>>> >>>> Did, done, posted, denied. >>> >>>No it wasnt! >> >> LIAR! > >If you actually posted evidence that stands up I You are a denier - of everything. You need to DIE. .....and soon. Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 "Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message news:8c4bn31tc7ld4sjpilj9hoqtov0op3gdjb@4ax.com... > On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:06:46 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" > <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >> >>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>news:rfgan3h2af1kes1msugo2fepuviagdsege@4ax.com... >>> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>> >>[snip] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>You have NOT provided evidence to proved that Saddam was working >>>>>>>>>>with >>>>>>>>>>Islamic terrorists as was promised or that he had WMD in Iraq just >>>>>>>>>>before >>>>>>>>>>the invasion as was promised! >>>>>>>>> >> >>Fritz you haven't provided evidence and like all the others who haven't >>you >>will not be posting within a matter of days. > > Be-A-Con you stupid fuckwit, SHADDUP! > > I'll do precisely what I choose! > > http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200410%5CNAT20041011a.html I have dealt with this so called evidence before in soc.culture.iraq too! From: "Mavisbeacon" Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:17:49 GMT Local: Wed, Dec 5 2007 9:17 am Subject: Re: Holocaust Denial, American Style 29 Nov 2007 Message-ID: <11u5j.12$L25.4@amsnews12> >>WE know about the Feith Memo being a mockup. but > BULLSHIT!!! > http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C2004... > When CNSNews.com published an article Monday, Oct. 4, entitled, > "Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror Ties," we > decided against publishing all 42 pages of the Iraqi intelligence > documents in our possession and on which the article was based. [snip] I gave you a source from the OFFICIAL classified report to congress. http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf They examined MILLIONS of pages! It s stranget that your 42 pages are not there because they only report ONE meeting with Al Khyda operatives and they say NO EVIDENCE OF LINKS between al Quaeda and Iraq. Thats MILLIONS of pages examined by the CIA not by a media spindoctor: http://www.slate.com/id/2092180 What is disputed is that the meetings went anywhere. It would not be surprising to find out that the two sides had a de facto cease-fire, as has been alleged. But we're still waiting to see real cooperation in the form of transfers of weapons and other materiel, know-how, or funds; the provision of safe haven on a significant scale; or the use of Iraqi diplomatic facilities by al-Qaida terrorists. The Feith memo mentions a few instances of possible Iraqi assistance to al-Qaida on bomb-building and weapons supply to affiliated groups, but nothing like the kind of evidence that, in Hayes' words, "is detailed, conclusive, and corroborated by multiple sources." [end excerpt] > > CNSNews.com) - When CNSNews.com published an article Monday, Oct. 4, > entitled, "Exclusive: Saddam Possessed WMD, Had Extensive Terror > Ties," we decided against publishing all 42 pages of the Iraqi > intelligence documents in our possession and on which the article was > based. You have a newspaper article from 2004 which you tout as evidence? It had an unverified Arabic doccument (which Ill bet you cant even read) which was NOT referred to by ANY US intelligence source as far as I know? It is very weak and unsubstianted evidence. Furthermore How come NO US intelligence organisations ever mentioned this doccument which you claim was in their posession? [snip] Just in case you missed it here are the sections to which I referred: For the Iraq intel links you will note that they have gone through 30 million pages of Iraqi documents! On page 65-66 you will note that GEORGE TENET (know him? The HEAD of CIA) stated there is no confirmation of links to al quaeda! It goes on about the lack of links and no supstantial proof of such links. On page 71 you will note the Answer Al Islam (Zawharis group) is mentioned as being linked to al Quaeda but NOT to Iraqi authorities! They then go through links to al quaeda and planning operations withthem. NOWHERE is any Philipnes attack mentioned. Ther is one document in the whole 30 million which mentions people meeting Al Quaeda and leavinf the door open for the POSSIBILITY of working together (not actually working with them like the US did with the MuJIHADeen) - bottom of page 73 where you note Bin Laden called Saddam an "unbeliever". You may also have read the actual transcripts of Bin Ladens videos from the cave in which he decries Saddam? [different source] Skip on to page 82 for information on Salman Pak. On page 83 you will note the OFFICIAL US POSITION of NO TRAINING of terrorists at Salman Pak after 1991! On poage 84 the DIA states NO LINKS between Al Quaeda and Salman Pak! Actually on page 85 you will note that far from training for terrorism it was for training for COUNTER TERRORISM! In fact why would terrorists need to train outdoors using an airplane? all they would need is a mockup of the INSIDE of the Airplane! It is the COUNTER terrorists who want to take control of the Airplane from the terrorists who need an Airplane to train on? On page 88 note the reference to Iraq not controlling the Kiurdis North and that Al Zakawi'sd Anser Al Islam group operated there! from 88-page 93 you will note that Iraq viewed Anser Al islam and Al Zawhari as t THREAT and not as an Ally! On page 94 they nmove on to the Prague meeting. By the end of page 96 - reference 264 you will note that the US intelligence service authotities are "Skeptical" whether Atta travelled to Prague! The real meat however comes from page 105 - conclusions: Conclusion 1: Saddam distrusted Al quaeda and refused ALL requests to work with them! 2. There was ONE meeting between Saddams regime and Al Quaeda. There were possibly two more where the Al Quaeda were rebuffed by Saddam. 3. No links on chemical and bio weapons 4. NO training by Saddams regime of Al Quaeda at Salman Pak OR ANYWHERE ELSE in Iraq! 5. Saddam tried but failed to capture Zawahi and Anser al Islam. He did not harbour them or co operate with them or even turn a blind eye to them! 6. Anser al Islan operated since 1991 in Kurdish controlled Northern Iraq outside of Saddams reach. 7. No involvement in Sept 11 attacks. 8. No intention to work with terrorrists That gets yo to page 111. THAT IS THE WORD fromn CIA DIA FBI and NSA and Homeland Security based on what they now know! Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 "Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message news:1rcbn3tau0hjq4p7aoogb7vo8fdn1uu86j@4ax.com... > On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:52:08 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" > <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >> >>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>news:7b4bn3tie8apcnbpq084r66kb3ljsmk3bc@4ax.com... >>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:03:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>> >>>> >>>>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>>>news:rfgan3h2af1kes1msugo2fepuviagdsege@4ax.com... >>>>> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>>>> >>>>[snip] >>>>>>[snip racist ad hominem] >>>>>> >>>>>>so you can't find anything to support >>>>> >>>>> Did, done, posted, denied. >>>> >>>>No it wasnt! >>> >>> LIAR! >> >>If you actually posted evidence that stands up I > > You are a denier - of everything. To deny something you have to actually post some substantial evidence of it! all you posted were already dealt with claims and later contradicted unsupported statements! I posted the actual evidence of Media and official sources which show your so called evidence and unsupported bigoted OPINION is wrong! > > You need to DIE. > > ....and soon. > Death threats against me are NOT evidence of saddam supporting al Qaeda! where is your evidence? If you Can't post anything that stands up please don't think a logical fallacy like ad hominem is doing any better. Quote
Guest Fritz Katzenjammer Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:10:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >news:8c4bn31tc7ld4sjpilj9hoqtov0op3gdjb@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:06:46 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >> >>> >>>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>>news:rfgan3h2af1kes1msugo2fepuviagdsege@4ax.com... >>>> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>>> >>>[snip] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>You have NOT provided evidence to proved that Saddam was working >>>>>>>>>>>with >>>>>>>>>>>Islamic terrorists as was promised or that he had WMD in Iraq just >>>>>>>>>>>before >>>>>>>>>>>the invasion as was promised! >>>>>>>>>> >>> >>>Fritz you haven't provided evidence and like all the others who haven't >>>you >>>will not be posting within a matter of days. >> >> Be-A-Con you stupid fuckwit, SHADDUP! >> >> I'll do precisely what I choose! >> >> http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200410%5CNAT20041011a.html > > > >I have dealt with this YOU ARE A LYING SCUMBAG _ DIE NOW! Quote
Guest Fritz Katzenjammer Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:15:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >news:1rcbn3tau0hjq4p7aoogb7vo8fdn1uu86j@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:52:08 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >> >>> >>>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>>news:7b4bn3tie8apcnbpq084r66kb3ljsmk3bc@4ax.com... >>>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:03:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>>>>news:rfgan3h2af1kes1msugo2fepuviagdsege@4ax.com... >>>>>> On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 18:23:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>>>>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>>>>> >>>>>[snip] >>>>>>>[snip racist ad hominem] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>so you can't find anything to support >>>>>> >>>>>> Did, done, posted, denied. >>>>> >>>>>No it wasnt! >>>> >>>> LIAR! >>> >>>If you actually posted evidence that stands up I >> >> You are a denier - of everything. > >To deny Is your life. DIE NOW! Quote
Guest Fritz Katzenjammer Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 09:31:05 -0800 (PST), Merlin <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> mumbled: >On Dec 5, 2:42 Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 "Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message news:f32dn3h0utem373vtt1j033jpfi557g2u2@4ax.com... > On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:15:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" > <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >> [snip] > > Is your life. > > DIE NOW! Frita will be gon in a few days and he STILL wont have posted evidence to support his unfounded claims. Saddam didnt support Islamists no more than Hitler supported communists! That does not mean I believe in the views of hiotler or Saddam! Making death threaths against me is not going to change you UNSUPPORTED position! Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 "Merlin" <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:eae31715-fca3-4f3a-bfe1-fc3b1b14003a@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com... On Dec 27, 9:48 am, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote: > "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message > > news:f1bd991c-e6a4-48af-809b-b8ab3b83c00b@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 26, 5:57 pm, Lobby Dosser <lobby.dosser.map...@verizon.net> > wrote: > > > Merlin <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote: > > > The IRA wasn't a terrorist group. > > > It was a group of Irish Patriots who defended their occupied country > > > against the oppressing British invaders. > > > Using terrorism. > > That depends on your perspective and what you define terrorism as. > > > Of course Merlin won't give us HIS definition wil he? > > evasion noted. Asking someone to define an overall definition of what they think the work "Terrorism" encompasses, isn't quite as easy as asking them what they'd like to drink. >> Nope . so what? YOU brought up the point of "it depends what one defines >> terrorism as" >> So im asking you. what do you define it as? >> You are evading the answer. No evasion was intended. I consider acts that could be termed as "Terrorist" on a one by one basis. Was EVERYTHING ever done by the IRA, terrorist acts? No. Were some? Yes. >>So what? every act done by Islamists are terrorism either! The IRA >>endorsed a campaign which killed civilians. women and children. Not just >>soldiers! anyone >>saying this was "defending their country" as you have >>is about in the same boat as someone caloling the MuJIHADeen or Al Khyda >>"freedom fighters" Just like everything else, be-a-con, there are shades of grey. This is something you seem to have difficultly with understanding. >>I have no problem in understanding that you CANT muddy the waters on this >>one! If you do you then have to accept that there are "shades of grey" >>Muslim >>actions and that some of these might well be justified. But let >>me ask you. what IRA attack which killed civilians in the last 30 years do >>you thing was justified. >>name even ONE! Now if you go on to them killing >>soldiers then how is that different from Iraqi insurgents killing >>occupying troops? Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 "Merlin" <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:f7fa8bbb-5f0a-4bda-bf79-d5887143ef51@b40g2000prf.googlegroups.com... On Dec 26, 12:34 pm, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote: > "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message > > news:627009ac-fc9b-4aba-aca8-8e4527604340@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 8, 2:51 pm, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote: > > > In fact it might well be that there were NO WMD in Iraq for a at least 5 > > years before the US occupation! > > "MIGHT WELL BE" > > > Yes it isnt for me to prove a negitive -NO WMD. It is for those claiming > > them to prove them! > > BE-A-CON, YOU'RE A SLIMY PIECE OF SHIT. IN MANY OF YOUR POSTS, YOU > CLAIMED THAT THEIR WERE NONE! > > > I do not believe there were any. But You've said so many times that you don't give your opinion. Now it seems you do. > No I haven't! Where did i state that? I may have stated I RARELY make > claims. Claims are claims of FACT not opinion! I also may have stated I > sometimes >give an opinion but when I do I almost always indicate it is an > opinion. "I BELIEVE" is an opinion! You just can't get your story straight, can you? > If you can point out where I stated I dont post opinion ever then I am > happy to accepot that but as usual you won't be able to will you? Or was that "seldom" give your opinion? Either way, it's your opinion, not fact in any way. > It was most likely "seldom" and you probably are aware that you unfounded > accusation is just that UNFOUNDED like most of the other claims you post! As such, it's meaningless. > AS opposed to YOU who posts unsupported opinion which is somehow full of > meaning? LOL to you maybe. Not to anyone reasonable reading your bigoted > point of view. Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 29, 2007 Posted December 29, 2007 "Merlin" <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:65276240-438d-4743-b343-2c5064a8afb7@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... On Dec 5, 2:42 pm, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote: > If you want to train terrorists you train them to hijack planes and NOT > how > to get into grounded planes! for that you only need the INSIDE of a plane. > You use planes on the ground to train COUNTER TERRORISTS! [snip] "Sorry everyone, we have to fly this 747 around in circles so we can train our terrorists how to take one over." > You do not need an airplane body to train terrorists to take it over in > the air! You need a mockup of the interior not the >EXTERIOR! Hijackings > happen almost entirely in the AIR. the hijackers do NOT break into the > plane from outside! As such they >do NOT need a fusilage. they need an > interior! It would be highly unlikely they would put such an interior out > in public view! Just the fucking image cracks me up, be-a-con, you idiot. > really how so? Why would terrorists need a fuselage outdoors? why would > they train on one? Of all the airline hijacks that ever occurred can you > name even one that involved the hijackers entering the plane by attacking > it when grounded from outside? > In fact one of the first rules of counter terrorism in this situation is > to get a plane grounded. The threat of terrorists is by FAR increased by > having control of an AIRBORNE plane! Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 30, 2007 Posted December 30, 2007 "Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message news:h22dn3lehuvqc7ej1vv735mcj295l22fbn@4ax.com... > On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:10:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" > <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > [snip] >> >>I have dealt with this > > YOU ARE A LYING SCUMBAG _ DIE NOW! Here is the reference I have dealt with this so called evidence before in soc.culture.iraq too! From: "Mavisbeacon" Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:17:49 GMT Local: Wed, Dec 5 2007 9:17 am Subject: Re: Holocaust Denial, American Style 29 Nov 2007 Message-ID: <11u5j.12$L25.4@amsnews12> Unlike you I don't just fire off names and run away. I actually provide the EVIDENCE to back up my claim! I would have said "do try to keep up" Fritz. But sadly it is only "bye bye Fritz. Don't forget to close the door on your way out will you?" because I know that in spite of your death treats you wont be posting here in a few days. Quote
Guest Lobby Dosser Posted December 30, 2007 Posted December 30, 2007 Merlin <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> wrote: > On Dec 27, 2:41 Quote
Guest Hansie Katzenjammer Posted December 30, 2007 Posted December 30, 2007 On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:27:25 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >news:f32dn3h0utem373vtt1j033jpfi557g2u2@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:15:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >> >>> >[snip] >> >> Is your life. >> >> DIE NOW! > >Frita will be gon in a few days and he STILL wont have posted evidence It was posted scumbag. Stop being a LIAR! http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.aspx?GUID={1070B31C-E4BE-409C-ABAF-70DB2030DAF2} Iraqi military officers destroyed or hid chemical, biological and nuclear weapons goods in the weeks before the war, the nation's top satellite spy director said yesterday. Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, said vehicle traffic photographed by U.S. spy satellites indicated that material and documents related to the arms programs were shipped to Syria. Other goods probably were sent throughout Iraq in small quantities and documents probably were stashed in the homes of weapons scientists, Gen. Clapper told defense reporters at a breakfast. Gen. Clapper said he is not surprised that U.S. and allied forces have not found weapons of mass destruction hidden in Iraq because "it's a big place." "Those below the senior leadership saw what was coming, and I think they went to extraordinary lengths to dispose of the evidence," he said. Congress is investigating whether U.S. intelligence agencies overstated information indicating that Iraq had hidden its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. The Bush administration has defended the intelligence agencies on prewar reports that the weapons were there. Iraqi government officials "below the Saddam Hussein and the sons level saw what was coming and decided the best thing to do was to dispose, destroy and disperse," he said. Gen. Clapper said he felt strongly that the satellite imagery of Iraq's weapons facilities before the war was "accurate and balanced." "Based on what we saw prior to the onset of hostilities, we certainly felt there were indications of [weapons of mass destruction] activity," said the retired general and former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Gen. Clapper said the judgment was based on analysis of spy satellite photographs and was not proof of "what was going on inside of buildings." He also said the Iraqi government carried out operations after the fall of Baghdad in April to cover up the hidden weapons programs. The chaos following might have included both looting and "organized dispersal made to look like looting," he said. "So by the time that we got to a lot of these facilities, that we had previously identified as suspect facilities, there wasn't that much there to look at," he said. Valuable documents on Iraq's weapons were destroyed or lost in the chaos, which included burning of major government ministries. Saddam began dispersing his weapons and sending elements of his chemical, biological and nuclear programs out of the country in the weeks before the war, he said. The dispersal included moving both weapons and equipment as well as documents. The activity began before the United Nations began arms inspections last fall. "What we saw with the avoidance of inspections, there was clearly an effort to disperse, bury, conceal certain equipment prior to inspections," Gen. Clapper said. As for shipping weapons out of Iraq, he said, there is "no question" that people and material were taken to Syria. He said he did not know whether material also was moved to Iran. Convoys of vehicles, mostly commercial trucks, were spotted going into Syria from Iraq shortly before the start of the war March 19 and during the conflict, he said. Quote
Guest Hansie Katzenjammer Posted December 30, 2007 Posted December 30, 2007 On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 01:07:08 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >news:h22dn3lehuvqc7ej1vv735mcj295l22fbn@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:10:59 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >> >[snip] > >>> >>>I have dealt with this >> >> YOU ARE A LYING SCUMBAG _ DIE NOW! > >Here is the reference http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.aspx?GUID={1070B31C-E4BE-409C-ABAF-70DB2030DAF2} Iraqi military officers destroyed or hid chemical, biological and nuclear weapons goods in the weeks before the war, the nation's top satellite spy director said yesterday. Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, said vehicle traffic photographed by U.S. spy satellites indicated that material and documents related to the arms programs were shipped to Syria. Other goods probably were sent throughout Iraq in small quantities and documents probably were stashed in the homes of weapons scientists, Gen. Clapper told defense reporters at a breakfast. Gen. Clapper said he is not surprised that U.S. and allied forces have not found weapons of mass destruction hidden in Iraq because "it's a big place." "Those below the senior leadership saw what was coming, and I think they went to extraordinary lengths to dispose of the evidence," he said. Congress is investigating whether U.S. intelligence agencies overstated information indicating that Iraq had hidden its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. The Bush administration has defended the intelligence agencies on prewar reports that the weapons were there. Iraqi government officials "below the Saddam Hussein and the sons level saw what was coming and decided the best thing to do was to dispose, destroy and disperse," he said. Gen. Clapper said he felt strongly that the satellite imagery of Iraq's weapons facilities before the war was "accurate and balanced." "Based on what we saw prior to the onset of hostilities, we certainly felt there were indications of [weapons of mass destruction] activity," said the retired general and former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Gen. Clapper said the judgment was based on analysis of spy satellite photographs and was not proof of "what was going on inside of buildings." He also said the Iraqi government carried out operations after the fall of Baghdad in April to cover up the hidden weapons programs. The chaos following might have included both looting and "organized dispersal made to look like looting," he said. "So by the time that we got to a lot of these facilities, that we had previously identified as suspect facilities, there wasn't that much there to look at," he said. Valuable documents on Iraq's weapons were destroyed or lost in the chaos, which included burning of major government ministries. Saddam began dispersing his weapons and sending elements of his chemical, biological and nuclear programs out of the country in the weeks before the war, he said. The dispersal included moving both weapons and equipment as well as documents. The activity began before the United Nations began arms inspections last fall. "What we saw with the avoidance of inspections, there was clearly an effort to disperse, bury, conceal certain equipment prior to inspections," Gen. Clapper said. As for shipping weapons out of Iraq, he said, there is "no question" that people and material were taken to Syria. He said he did not know whether material also was moved to Iran. Convoys of vehicles, mostly commercial trucks, were spotted going into Syria from Iraq shortly before the start of the war March 19 and during the conflict, he said. Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 30, 2007 Posted December 30, 2007 "Hansie Katzenjammer" <der@inspector.vot> wrote in message news:nksdn3lee6lhm19ln56sgdvcb5k39v15j5@4ax.com... > On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:27:25 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" > <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: > >> >>"Fritz Katzenjammer" <der@captain.vot> wrote in message >>news:f32dn3h0utem373vtt1j033jpfi557g2u2@4ax.com... >>> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:15:52 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" >>> <Mavisbeacon@nospam.forme> mumbled: >>> >>>> >>[snip] >>> >>> Is your life. >>> >>> DIE NOW! >> >>Frita will be gon in a few days and he STILL wont have posted evidence > > It was posted scumbag. > > Stop being a LIAR! > > http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.aspx?GUID={1070B31C-E4BE-409C-ABAF-70DB2030DAF2} Here is wat i posted about frontpage mag back in spetember and after that we will go through you so called "evidence shall we" From: "Mavisbeacon" Newsgroups: soc.culture.iraq,soc.culture.iranian,alt.politics,alt.politics.bush References: <1188234275.553182.161470@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <5jgq25F3sr131U1@mid.individual.net> <1i3ie68.1qlh7e9mnaf0gN%nobody@nowheres.com> <lSkBi.629$9V2.404@amstwist00> <1i3m514.7bbh061gstpvsN%nobody@nowheres.com> <DQuBi.684$9V2.310@amstwist00> <1i3nvdj.y5juurtrm2zhN%nobody@nowheres.com> <CLSBi.857$9V2.439@amstwist00> <1i3q5mg.10qxqs61wj8oftN%nobody@nowheres.com> <4yeCi.996$9V2.544@amstwist00> <1i3rizk.p1tx1yysfy69N%nobody@nowheres.com> Subject: Re: Why the fabricated WMD claims were fake! Lines: 154 Message-ID: <nMVCi.1300$9V2.770@amstwist00> this source is worse than FOX! surprising! but please where does it supply EVIDENCE of WMD? reference please? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontpagemag Chip Berlet, writing for the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), identified Horowitz's Center for the Study of Popular Culture as one of 17 "right-wing foundations and think tanks support[ing] efforts to make bigoted and discredited ideas respectable." Berlet accused Horowitz of blaming slavery on "'black Africans ... abetted by dark-skinned Arabs'" and of "attack[ing] minority 'demands for special treatment' as 'only necessary because some blacks can't seem to locate the ladder of opportunity within reach of others,' rejecting the idea that they could be the victims of lingering racism."[11] Responding with an open letter to Morris Dees, president of the SPLC, Horowitz stated that his reminder that the slaves transported to America were bought from African and Arab slavers was a response to demands that only whites pay blacks reparations, not to hold Africans and Arabs solely responsible for slavery, and that the statement that he had denied lingering racism was "a calculated and carefully constructed lie." The letter said that Berlet's work was "so tendentious, so filled with transparent misrepresentations and smears that if you continue to post the report you will create for your Southern Poverty Law Center a well-earned reputation as a hate group itself."[12] Berlet responded: "The Center for the Study of Popular Culture has produced a vast amount of text marked by nasty polemic and exceptional insensitivity around issues of race, ethnicity, gender, and sexual identity. Writers for the CSPC tend to use language that exacerbates societal tensions rather than seeking some form of constructive critical discourse. They are mainstreaming bigotry-and this is precisely the topic of my article in Intelligence Report."[13] Subsequent critical pieces on Berlet and the SPLC have been featured on FPM.[14][15] In 2003 the SPLC criticized Front Page for calling the NAACP "a defamation and shakedown organization."[16] Media Matters for America criticized FrontPageMag.com senior editor Jacob Laksin for "falsely claim[ing] Media Matters 'concede[d]' that half the professors in Horowitz's book 'use their classrooms for political agendas'."[17] On October 10, 2006 Media Matters published an article whose title asserted "Horowitz, FrontPageMag misrepresented CREW statement on Foley emails to suggest 'obstruction of justice'."[18] Rep. Mark Foley had sent arguably inappropriate emails to an underage Congressional page (more explicit propositions to others came out later) and, after ABC News broke the story on September 28 based on other information, the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington criticized the FBI, saying that they had both received and turned the suspicious emails over to the FBI in July. According to the Washington Post, "Law enforcement officials said then that the e-mails did not provide enough evidence of a possible crime to warrant a full investigation", that "unidentified Justice and FBI officials told reporters that the e-mails provided by CREW were heavily redacted" and that "the FBI believed that CREW may have received the e-mails as early as April".[19] According to Media Matters Horowitz's October 9 FPM blog characterized the CREW claim to have turned the emails over to the FBI on the same day they received them as "holding [them] since at least July 2006" and that the blog "failed to make clear that the dispute concerns allegations made by unnamed officials -- not the agency itself.". The blog entry referred to by Media Matters is no longer available on the FPM magazine site, but the article on this subject FPM published on October 10 does not have these failings. [end excerpt] so much for the authotity of you source but let us see exactly what you claim it says: > > Iraqi military officers destroyed or hid chemical, biological and > nuclear weapons goods in the weeks before the war, the nation's top > satellite spy director said yesterday. That for starters is hearsay! Where is the actual EVIDENCE of hidden WMD? You have been four years there and said there were loads and loads of them. so where are they? > > Retired Air Force Lt. Gen. James Clapper, head of the National Imagery > and Mapping Agency, said vehicle traffic photographed by U.S. spy > satellites indicated that material and documents related to the arms > programs were shipped to Syria. Shipped from tikrit and Bagdadh across a thousand miles of US occupied and overflied territory? And only a satellite took any pictures? No overflying planes or troops saw anything? > Other goods probably were sent throughout Iraq in small quantities and > documents probably were stashed in the homes of weapons scientists, > Gen. Clapper told defense reporters at a breakfast. This si part of the old switcheroony climbdown! it is in fact a claim that there is NOT any evidence and giving an excuse fot NO evidence! the fact is that there is NO evidence of WMD as promised in Iraq! If you now claim "the reason for no evidence of WMD is because they were moved to Syria! then you have to accept that there are NO WMD in Iraq! Even if the story is a complete cooked up fantasy it begins by the actual basis of NO WMD IN IRAQ! You begin with something the opposite of you claim! > > Gen. Clapper said he is not surprised that U.S. and allied forces have > not found weapons of mass destruction hidden in Iraq because "it's a > big place." Waffle! The US stated before the invasion that they were aware of stockpiles of WMD and that they KNEW where! SO if they are not there now they can begin by admitting they were wrong! > > "Those below the senior leadership saw what was coming, and I think > they went to extraordinary lengths to dispose of the evidence," he > said. This is complete bollox! You are claiming something must be true on the basis of the total absence of evidence! dont you see the fallacy here? Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm. Lisa: That's specious reasoning, Dad. Homer: Thank you dear. Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away. Homer: Oh, how does it work? Lisa: It doesn't work. Homer: Uh-huh. Lisa: It's just a stupid rock. Homer: Uh-huh. Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you? Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock. Fritz is selling a rock in a desert of sand. Sand on which his argument is built LOL! > > Congress is investigating whether U.S. intelligence agencies > overstated information indicating that Iraq had hidden its chemical, > biological and nuclear weapons. The Bush administration has defended > the intelligence agencies on prewar reports that the weapons were > there. They investigated it and they admitted they GOT IT WRONG! http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf from page 52 and page 105 show NO evidence of WMD and no links to al Qaeda! That's from the OFFICIAL US reports! go and read it! it ADMITS they got it WRONG! > > Iraqi government officials "below the Saddam Hussein and the sons > level saw what was coming and decided the best thing to do was to > dispose, destroy and disperse," he said. LOL! More of the "tooth fairy must have taken them" routine! You just have NO EVIDENCE of WMD in Iraq dont you? Otherwise why woudl you claim the WMD are NOT THERE! You are a hoot! > > Gen. Clapper said he felt strongly that the satellite imagery of > Iraq's weapons facilities before the war was "accurate and balanced." Where was all the other evidence? I mean they had planes in the Air with much better equipment. why didnt they have a photo from them? Where are these images? Are they like the Images which showed that the bio weapons plant claimed by "Curveball" actually had a wall down the place he claimed was a truck roadway? And later when the UN inspectors went there what did they find ? LOL! a wall! > > "Based on what we saw prior to the onset of hostilities, we certainly > felt there were indications of [weapons of mass destruction] that is NOT the point! It isnt about what you fgelt! It is about YOUR promise of WMD and that you knew wher they were and woudl show the world! So now you haven't found any you cook up this "they must be somewhere else" unsupported rubbish. > activity," said the retired general and former director of the Defense > Intelligence Agency. Argument from Authority! Another fallacy! where are these photos. Dates? times? locations? > > Gen. Clapper said the judgment was based on analysis of spy satellite > photographs and was not proof of "what was going on inside of > buildings." So they can now tell WMD from orbit can they? LOL! > > He also said the Iraqi government carried out operations after the > fall of Baghdad in April to cover up the hidden weapons programs. By crossing the entire country through Us held territory and not being detected. LOL! With such covert ability they could wipe out the entire US force WITHOUT THE NEED for WMD! >The > chaos following might have included both looting and "organized > dispersal made to look like looting," he said. But the claim is they took these WMD and drove them to Syria since yu have NO EVIDNECE of them in Iraq! so how did they do this "magic" missile moving? Maybe they got the pixies unicorns and lepreachauns to help the tooth fairy movethe fantasy WMD? LOL! > > "So by the time that we got to a lot of these facilities, that we had > previously identified as suspect facilities, there wasn't that much > there to look at," he said. There wasnt ANYTHIG there constituting any evedince of WMD so now you are claiming NO evidence of WMD = Moved WMD. Far more likely NO EVIDENCE= NO WMD in the first place! > > Valuable documents on Iraq's weapons were destroyed or lost in the > chaos, which included burning of major government ministries. The US intel report to congress reviewed over 300 MILLION pages! NO EVIDENCE of WMD was their conculsion. > > Saddam began dispersing his weapons and sending elements of his > chemical, biological and nuclear programs out of the country in the > weeks before the war, he said. But the entire US admin who were assuring the world that they knew wher the WMD were were completly fooled by Saddam moving all these WMD beneath their very eyes? > > The dispersal included moving both weapons and equipment as well as > documents. The activity began before the United Nations began arms > inspections last fall. > > "What we saw with the avoidance of inspections, there was clearly an > effort to disperse, bury, conceal certain equipment prior to > inspections," Gen. Clapper said. That is meant to be a sensible sentence is it? In spite of that WHAT was concealed? Where is it now ? Show it to us! >> As for shipping weapons out of Iraq, he said, there is "no question" > that people and material were taken to Syria. He said he did not know > whether material also was moved to Iran. Yes a million people! They were all obvoiusly terrorists and NOT refugees. the population of Bhagdad is now 75 per cent Sunni when it was 65 per cent. From two thirds to three quarters. Obviously they all left to help Saddam move WMD. LOL! > > Convoys of vehicles, mostly commercial trucks, were spotted going into > Syria from Iraq shortly before the start of the war March 19 and > during the conflict, he said. > How many? what size convoy? Times and dates? photos of them please? Funny how the official report doe snot agree with you biased website isn't it? If you claim this is evidence please how the photos backing this up. You claim this is evidence do you? well produce it. Quote
Guest Mavisbeacon Posted December 30, 2007 Posted December 30, 2007 "Merlin" <johndoe99@fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:7b725c0e-351f-4b86-ada6-32a59bcf3a28@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com... On Dec 29, 4:49 pm, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote: > "Merlin" <johndo...@fastmail.fm> wrote in message > > news:65276240-438d-4743-b343-2c5064a8afb7@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 5, 2:42 pm, "Mavisbeacon" <Mavisbea...@nospam.forme> wrote: > > > If you want to train terrorists you train them to hijack planes and NOT > > how > > to get into grounded planes! for that you only need the INSIDE of a > > plane. > > You use planes on the ground to train COUNTER TERRORISTS! > > [snip] > "Sorry everyone, we have to fly this 747 around in circles so we can > train our terrorists how to take one over." > > > You do not need an airplane body to train terrorists to take it over in > > the air! You need a mockup of the interior not the >EXTERIOR! Hijackings > > happen almost entirely in the AIR. the hijackers do NOT break into the > > plane from outside! As such they >do NOT need a fusilage. they need an > > interior! It would be highly unlikely they would put such an interior > > out > > in public view! Well golly gee wiz be-a-con, you know almost everything, don't you? > I know Military training but > this is so glaringly obvious. Can you list even ONE hijacking where > terrorists took over a plane from the outside on the ground? > But you want us to believe this base to train hijackers trained in these > very tactics? > if you can show a flaw in my point them show it! > > > > really how so? Why would terrorists need a fuselage outdoors? why would > > they train on one? Of all the airline hijacks that ever occurred can you > > name even one that involved the hijackers entering the plane by > > attacking > > it when grounded from outside? > > In fact one of the first rules of counter terrorism in this situation is > > to get a plane grounded. The threat of terrorists is by FAR increased by > > having control of an AIRBORNE plane! You state the fucking obvious like you just invented it. You really are that fucking stupid. > In fact YOU are the one who came into this suggesting this was a terrorist > training camp! > Now you are contradicting yourself! It was in fact a counter terrorism training camp! Salman Pak had all sorts of rumours and several different sites in the one area but the official report also deals with teh Islamist training camp story . read it here: http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf look at page 83 where the DIA say "there is no credible reporting on Al Khyda training at Salman Paxk or anyehre else in Iraq" Thats BEFORE the invasion! But if yu move on further (page 84) even the CIA admit it was wrong! Then in page 85 you will note their opinion about Saddam supporting Islamists even if by offering then a safe heaven. Their opinion - Saddam DIDNT! That is the corroberated statments of several security agencies after they reviewed the available evidence! But you want to believe in WMD don't you? Even when you never find any you want to believe. Just like yu want to believe the neocons will be in power this time next year? LOL. Bye bye. No amount of wishing for WMD wil make them appear when they are not there! Quote
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