A Chronology of Murder on United 93

  • Thread starter TimOsmanOsamaBinLaden@gmail.com
  • Start date
James McGill wrote:

> Vandar wrote:
>
>>> nbc news sez 3-4 miles radius for the debris field:
>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Shanksville+debris#
>>
>> That's not 12 miles.
>
> If the crash was on the perimeter of a circle of radius of 3 to 4 miles
> then debris could be between 14 and 25 miles away, measured by arc length.

I don't think that is what the guy meant. I had the impression that he
meant 12 miles from where we were standing debris from the plan was
discovered. One very curious aspect of this is that the debris fields are
to the east southeast of the designated impact location. Now, this map
only shows debris up to 8 mile away, but notice that it is further down the
flight path than the officially designated impact location:

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html


--
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ek5w_wtc7-the-smoking-gun-of-911-updated
http://911research.wtc7.net
http://vehme.blogspot.com
Virtus Tutissima Cassis
 
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:01:24 -0500, none@isp.com (Dersu Uzala) wrote:

>In article <F46li.11873$ya1.9267@news02.roc.ny>, vandar69@yahoo.com says...
>>
>
>>> When I went to the crash site outside of Shanksville, the guy operating the
>>> temporary memorial told me that debris was scattered over a 12 mile
>>> distance. I specifically asked him if that was paper and light stuff, or
>>> just any kind of airplane part. He said "all kinds of plane parts". I
>>> don't know what hit the ground up there, but debris does not bounce 12
>>> miles from a plane crash.
>>
>>Nothing bounced 12 miles from the crash site. The guy you supposedly
>>spoke with doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>
>
>nbc news sez 3-4 miles radius for the debris field:
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Shanksville+debris#
>
>CNN sez :"Investigators leading the probe of the Pennsylvania jetliner crash
>said they found debris six miles away from the crash site. "
>http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/attack/cnn_earlyproberesults.html
>
>
>Pittsburgh Tribune-review sez 2 miles for bone fragments:
>
>http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12967.html
>"Investigators also descended on nearby Indian Lake. The resort community two
>miles from the crash also became part of the official search area after small
>pieces of crash debris were recovered from the 750-acre lake.
>
>
>"By Wednesday morning, crash debris began washing ashore at the marina.
>Fleegle said there was something that looked like a rib bone amid pieces of
>seats, small chunks of melted plastic and checks.
>
>
>Who are you going to believe, Vandar or eye-witnesses?

Vandar AND eyewitnesses from what you posted. I didn't seen anything
in your "rebuttal" where debris was found 12 miles from the crash
site.

>Why Vandar posts crap that can be refuted in 5 minutes of using google is
>beyond me.

Yep, you're dumber than a rock.
--
John Conyers' comments about Bill Clinton pardoning convicted
terrorists:

"Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong opposition to what is clearly a
politically motivated and totally senseless resolution. We are a
Nation of laws, and if any matter is abundantly clear by our
Constitution, it is that the President has the sole and unitary power
to grant clemency. Is there any Member that does not understand that?
Every President has the sole and unitary power to grant clemency. Now
the reason that he has the power to grant clemency is that it is that
the President is uniquely positioned to consider the law and the facts
that apply in each request for clemency."

[EXPRESSING THE SENSE OF THE CONGRESS THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULD NOT
HAVE GRANTED CLEMENCY TO TERRORISTS] (House of Representatives -
September 09, 1999). Passed 311-41; 72 voted "present", Conyers voted
NAY)
 
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:33:01 -0400, Hatto von Aquitanien
<abbot@AugiaDives.hre> wrote:

>James McGill wrote:
>
>> Vandar wrote:
>>
>>>> nbc news sez 3-4 miles radius for the debris field:
>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Shanksville+debris#
>>>
>>> That's not 12 miles.
>>
>> If the crash was on the perimeter of a circle of radius of 3 to 4 miles
>> then debris could be between 14 and 25 miles away, measured by arc length.
>
>I don't think that is what the guy meant. I had the impression that he
>meant 12 miles from where we were standing debris from the plan was
>discovered. One very curious aspect of this is that the debris fields are
>to the east southeast of the designated impact location. Now, this map
>only shows debris up to 8 mile away, but notice that it is further down the
>flight path than the officially designated impact location:
>
>http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html

Not curious at all and consistant with a crash rather than a
shoot-down. When a missile hits a plane It stats breaking apart
immediately and until it impacts the ground debris rains from the sky
so you would expect a trail of debris leading up to the crash site.
The debris from the space shuttle Columbia disaster was found
scattered along 4 states, fer example.

The fact that there was NO debris found along the flight path leading
up to the crash site indicates that the plane was intact up until the
moment of impact. In a shoot-down from 7,000 -10,000 feet the plane
would break apart and you would expect to see numerous impact sites
with large fragments - one wing over HERE, part of the tail over
THERE, bodies and luggage bouncing along the ground THERE, THERE,
THERE, and THERE.

From your own source we see that most of the debris collected
afterwards was less than 2" in length except for a few engine parts
and found PAST the crater. You would expect this in a crash-scenario
because 70% of the plane is made of lightweight materials (aluminum,
plastic, foam insulation, etc.) that would shatter and/or burn on
impact. These fragments would be carried skyward by the fuel
explosion and heat of the resulting fire and be scattered by the wind.
Official records show that the fallout pattern was consistent with the
wind direction and speed, btw.
--
John Conyers' comments about Bill Clinton pardoning convicted
terrorists:

"Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong opposition to what is clearly a
politically motivated and totally senseless resolution. We are a
Nation of laws, and if any matter is abundantly clear by our
Constitution, it is that the President has the sole and unitary power
to grant clemency. Is there any Member that does not understand that?
Every President has the sole and unitary power to grant clemency. Now
the reason that he has the power to grant clemency is that it is that
the President is uniquely positioned to consider the law and the facts
that apply in each request for clemency."

[EXPRESSING THE SENSE OF THE CONGRESS THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULD NOT
HAVE GRANTED CLEMENCY TO TERRORISTS] (House of Representatives -
September 09, 1999). Passed 311-41; 72 voted "present", Conyers voted
NAY)
 
Figaro <figaro@satx.rr.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:33:04 -0700, nobody@nowheres.com (the_blogologist)
> wrote:
>
> ><TimOsmanOsamaBinLaden@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> ...........Captain Dahl boarded a decoy Boeing
> >> 757-222, presented to him and the public as United Airlines Flight 93
> >> flying out of Liberty International Airport.
> >>
> >>
> >> The decoy was painted in United Airlines colors and carried an
> >> illegally-modified flight box with a Dead-Pilot Flight Data Module....
> >
> >Just how would they get the decoy in there and the original plane out
> >without the airlines or the airport knowing?
>
> How? Maybe you should ask ICTS, http://tinyurl.com/389t72, the
> Israeli-owned company in charge of security at many of America's biggest
> airports. ICTS was (is?) managing security at Liberty International
> Airport. ICTS also managed security at Boston's Logan Airport, from which
> the 9/11 planes took off for the World Trade Center. ICTS, registered in
> The Netherlands, operates its passenger screening operations through its
> US subsidiary, Huntleigh Corp.

The coming and going of aircraft would be monitored by the control
tower. How would airport security wouldn't be able to conceal a full
size jet coming and going. You got anything besides wild speculation?
 
orionca@earthlink.net wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:33:01 -0400, Hatto von Aquitanien
> <abbot@AugiaDives.hre> wrote:
>
>>James McGill wrote:
>>
>>> Vandar wrote:
>>>
>>>>> nbc news sez 3-4 miles radius for the debris field:
>>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Shanksville+debris#
>>>>
>>>> That's not 12 miles.
>>>
>>> If the crash was on the perimeter of a circle of radius of 3 to 4 miles
>>> then debris could be between 14 and 25 miles away, measured by arc
>>> length.
>>
>>I don't think that is what the guy meant. I had the impression that he
>>meant 12 miles from where we were standing debris from the plan was
>>discovered. One very curious aspect of this is that the debris fields are
>>to the east southeast of the designated impact location. Now, this map
>>only shows debris up to 8 mile away, but notice that it is further down
>>the flight path than the officially designated impact location:
>>
>>http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html
>
> Not curious at all and consistant with a crash rather than a
> shoot-down.

Hardly.

> When a missile hits a plane It stats breaking apart
> immediately

Not necessarily. Lots of different things can happen depending on the type
of warhead, the type of fusing, the part of the aircraft hit, the relative
velocity at impact and other factors.

> and until it impacts the ground debris rains from the sky
> so you would expect a trail of debris leading up to the crash site.

I would have to do some math to figure this out quantitatively, but it seems
reasonable that fragments knocked off at altitude would not be slowed down
nearly as much as they would by the atmosphere at surface density. It
seems possible that some debris could have flown farther than the plane.
OTOH, it's possible the plane was traveling in the opposite direction from
what we have been told.

> The debris from the space shuttle Columbia disaster was found
> scattered along 4 states, fer example.

Are you suggesting Columbia was shot down?

> The fact that there was NO debris found along the flight path leading
> up to the crash site indicates that the plane was intact up until the
> moment of impact. In a shoot-down from 7,000 -10,000 feet the plane
> would break apart and you would expect to see numerous impact sites
> with large fragments - one wing over HERE, part of the tail over
> THERE, bodies and luggage bouncing along the ground THERE, THERE,
> THERE, and THERE.

I know of at least one instance of a plane being hit by a missile and
ditching in the desert with no fatalities.

> From your own source we see that most of the debris collected
> afterwards was less than 2" in length except for a few engine parts
> and found PAST the crater. You would expect this in a crash-scenario
> because 70% of the plane is made of lightweight materials (aluminum,
> plastic, foam insulation, etc.) that would shatter and/or burn on
> impact. These fragments would be carried skyward by the fuel
> explosion and heat of the resulting fire and be scattered by the wind.

Do you make the fairy tales up as you go along, or are you reading from a
script? I am now supposed to believe that the plane both bore into the
ground so deeply that nothing could be seen, except for the parts that
wafted away on the breeze. Sorry, for one, the eyewitnesses describing
debris falling from the sky said they saw it at the time of the impact, not
several minutes afterword.

> Official records show that the fallout pattern was consistent with the
> wind direction and speed, btw.

Citation? I don't believe that is correct.

The most reasonable scenario I can come up with based on the available
evidence is that the plane was hit at altitude, but not completely
destroyed. The commandeered guidance system was still able to control it
well enough to bring it to a pre-arranged intercept location where it was
finished off by an A-10.

--
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ek5w_wtc7-the-smoking-gun-of-911-updated
http://911research.wtc7.net
http://vehme.blogspot.com
Virtus Tutissima Cassis
 
In article <mudli.11962$B25.9143@news01.roc.ny>, vandar69@yahoo.com says...
>
>Dersu Uzala wrote:
>
>> In article <F46li.11873$ya1.9267@news02.roc.ny>, vandar69@yahoo.com says...
>>
>>
>>>>When I went to the crash site outside of Shanksville, the guy operating
the
>>>>temporary memorial told me that debris was scattered over a 12 mile
>>>>distance. I specifically asked him if that was paper and light stuff, or
>>>>just any kind of airplane part. He said "all kinds of plane parts". I
>>>>don't know what hit the ground up there, but debris does not bounce 12
>>>>miles from a plane crash.
>>>
>>>Nothing bounced 12 miles from the crash site. The guy you supposedly
>>>spoke with doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>>
>>
>>
>> nbc news sez 3-4 miles radius for the debris field:
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Shanksville+debris#
>
>That's not 12 miles.
>
>> CNN sez :"Investigators leading the probe of the Pennsylvania jetliner
crash
>> said they found debris six miles away from the crash site. "
>> http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/planes/attack/cnn_earlyproberesults.html
>
>That's not 12 miles.
>
>> Pittsburgh Tribune-review sez 2 miles for bone fragments:
>>
>> http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12967.html
>> "Investigators also descended on nearby Indian Lake. The resort community
two
>> miles from the crash also became part of the official search area after
small
>> pieces of crash debris were recovered from the 750-acre lake.
>>
>>
>> "By Wednesday morning, crash debris began washing ashore at the marina.
>> Fleegle said there was something that looked like a rib bone amid pieces of
>> seats, small chunks of melted plastic and checks.
>
>That's not 12 miles.
>
>> Who are you going to believe, Vandar or eye-witnesses?
>
>Believe the facts.
>Nothing bounced 12 miles from the crash site.
>
>> Why Vandar posts crap that can be refuted in 5 minutes of using google is
>> beyond me.
>
>You've refuted 3-4 miles, 6 miles, and 2 miles. Will you be refuting 12
>miles any time soon?
>

The difference in debris bouncing 6 miles or 12 miles is insignificant. You
explain how a light weight object is thrown 6 miles. Too light for wind to
carry it, and too light for any explosive effect of the crash(note that the
trees etc near the crash site were undamaged. A force sufficent to blow a
small piece of debris 6 miles would have produced local blast effects.
On the other hand, a mid-air breakup would explain all this.
 

>>>Just how would they get the decoy in there and the original plane out
>>>without the airlines or the airport knowing?

Time of order to ground flights on 9/11 : 9:30 am
Time of crash: 10:06 am
I think that there was just a little confusion on that day.
 
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:01:05 -0400, Hatto von Aquitanien
<abbot@AugiaDives.hre> wrote:

>orionca@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:33:01 -0400, Hatto von Aquitanien
>> <abbot@AugiaDives.hre> wrote:
>>
>>>James McGill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vandar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> nbc news sez 3-4 miles radius for the debris field:
>>>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Shanksville+debris#
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not 12 miles.
>>>>
>>>> If the crash was on the perimeter of a circle of radius of 3 to 4 miles
>>>> then debris could be between 14 and 25 miles away, measured by arc
>>>> length.
>>>
>>>I don't think that is what the guy meant. I had the impression that he
>>>meant 12 miles from where we were standing debris from the plan was
>>>discovered. One very curious aspect of this is that the debris fields are
>>>to the east southeast of the designated impact location. Now, this map
>>>only shows debris up to 8 mile away, but notice that it is further down
>>>the flight path than the officially designated impact location:
>>>
>>>http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html
>>
>> Not curious at all and consistant with a crash rather than a
>> shoot-down.
>
>Hardly.
>
>> When a missile hits a plane It stats breaking apart
>> immediately
>
>Not necessarily. Lots of different things can happen depending on the type
>of warhead, the type of fusing, the part of the aircraft hit, the relative
>velocity at impact and other factors.

The (hypothetical) warhead would have torn holes in the wings or
fuselage, whereever it hit. At 500 mph the plane would have started
tumbling which would have caused sufficient aerodynamic stress to
break up the airframe and send large, recongizable parts flying in all
directions. Aerodynamic drag would have brought these down well short
of the final impact crater.

>
>> and until it impacts the ground debris rains from the sky
>> so you would expect a trail of debris leading up to the crash site.
>
>I would have to do some math to figure this out quantitatively, but it seems
>reasonable that fragments knocked off at altitude would not be slowed down
>nearly as much as they would by the atmosphere at surface density. It
>seems possible that some debris could have flown farther than the plane.
>OTOH, it's possible the plane was traveling in the opposite direction from
>what we have been told.
>
>> The debris from the space shuttle Columbia disaster was found
>> scattered along 4 states, fer example.
>
>Are you suggesting Columbia was shot down?

I'm suggesting Columbia broke apart in mid-air, scattering wreckage
across 4 states. How the airframe broke up is another discussion. The
point is, once it started tumbling piece came off and flew in all
directions. Had Columbia instead nosed down and crashed into the
ground a few seconds before landing the wreckage would have been
largely contained in an impact crater with just a small fraction blown
up and about the crash site, much like United 93.

>> The fact that there was NO debris found along the flight path leading
>> up to the crash site indicates that the plane was intact up until the
>> moment of impact. In a shoot-down from 7,000 -10,000 feet the plane
>> would break apart and you would expect to see numerous impact sites
>> with large fragments - one wing over HERE, part of the tail over
>> THERE, bodies and luggage bouncing along the ground THERE, THERE,
>> THERE, and THERE.
>
>I know of at least one instance of a plane being hit by a missile and
>ditching in the desert with no fatalities.

The cases I know about where the plane survived we're talking a
shoulder mounted missile, extremely low altitude, relatively low
speed, and a well-trained, professional pilot at the controls. And
there was a debris trail along the flight path.

>
>> From your own source we see that most of the debris collected
>> afterwards was less than 2" in length except for a few engine parts
>> and found PAST the crater. You would expect this in a crash-scenario
>> because 70% of the plane is made of lightweight materials (aluminum,
>> plastic, foam insulation, etc.) that would shatter and/or burn on
>> impact. These fragments would be carried skyward by the fuel
>> explosion and heat of the resulting fire and be scattered by the wind.
>
>Do you make the fairy tales up as you go along, or are you reading from a
>script?

You're bound and determined to believe that naysayers are all Sooper
Sekcret Gubberment Agents, aren't you?

> I am now supposed to believe that the plane both bore into the
>ground so deeply that nothing could be seen, except for the parts that
>wafted away on the breeze.

The impact crater was 40' deep. Bits and pieces flew up out of the
hole, yes. Lightweight material burned and/or shredded in the
explosion, heavier engine parts survived intact enough to be
identified (though certainly not in working order!). The Earth didn't
open and swallow it up, if that's what you're thinking.

>Sorry, for one, the eyewitnesses describing
>debris falling from the sky said they saw it at the time of the impact, not
>several minutes afterword.

No one saw it "at the time of the impact" because no one was within
half a mile so the crash site would have been hidden by the treeline.
Even so, there was a fireball shooting out of the crater that would
have immediately flung small pieces skyward. People heard the
explosion, looked up, saw the fireball above the trees, and (possibly)
saw metallic bits flying, glinting in the sunshine.

>> Official records show that the fallout pattern was consistent with the
>> wind direction and speed, btw.
>
>Citation? I don't believe that is correct.

That's because you won't believe the official reports.

>The most reasonable scenario I can come up with based on the available
>evidence is that the plane was hit at altitude, but not completely
>destroyed.

"Partially" destroyed it would have bled a trail of smoke and debris
behind it visible for miles in the sky. Investigators would have
found pieces on the ground all the way from the missile impact point
to the crater the plane made as it plowed into the ground. There
would have been a huge cloud of smoke AT the impact point, thousands
of feet in the air and visible for hundreds of miles on that clear,
sunny day. There is simply no mistaking a plane hit by a missile in
broad daylight.

>The commandeered guidance system was still able to control it
>well enough to bring it to a pre-arranged intercept location where it was
>finished off by an A-10.

Oh, GAWD...you really have no clue what you are talking about, do you?
If the guidance system was "commandeered", why would us Sooper Sekcret
Agents need to shoot it down? Just remotely command it to pitch over
(after we've released nerve gas in the cabin to kill the flight crew,
yes!) and throttle up. Same effect, don't you think? No need to risk
revealing our Stealth A-10 fleet at all.
--
John Conyers' comments about Bill Clinton pardoning convicted
terrorists:

"Mr. Speaker, I rise in strong opposition to what is clearly a
politically motivated and totally senseless resolution. We are a
Nation of laws, and if any matter is abundantly clear by our
Constitution, it is that the President has the sole and unitary power
to grant clemency. Is there any Member that does not understand that?
Every President has the sole and unitary power to grant clemency. Now
the reason that he has the power to grant clemency is that it is that
the President is uniquely positioned to consider the law and the facts
that apply in each request for clemency."

[EXPRESSING THE SENSE OF THE CONGRESS THAT THE PRESIDENT SHOULD NOT
HAVE GRANTED CLEMENCY TO TERRORISTS] (House of Representatives -
September 09, 1999). Passed 311-41; 72 voted "present", Conyers voted
NAY)
 
Any one mind if we have a legal proceeding with witnesses who present
their credentials to prove who they are, and present evidence under
oath? anyone can claim to be anyone on the net and claim anything as
'evidence'. I want to see it presented in court. Then, I figure out
whether it is 'evidence' or not.
 
TimOsmanOsamaBinLaden@gmail.com wrote:
> A Chronology of Murder on United 93
>
> 7:03 a.m. - 7:39 a.m. Four alleged Flight 93 hijackers check in at the
> United Airlines ticket counter at Newark (New Jersey) Liberty
> International Airport and pass through security checkpoint. The 9/11
> Commission falsely claimed Newark Airport has no video cameras
> monitoring its security checkpoints. There is no documentary evidence
> proving the alleged hijackers passed through the checkpoint or whether
> they boarded the plane.


Your chronology is incomplete. Where are the Neon Attack Munchkins?
After all they have every right to be there as all the other crap you
pulled out of your delusional imagination.
 
Figaro wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:47:35 -0700, James McGill <jmcgill@email.arizona.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> TimOsmanOsamaBinLaden@gmail.com wrote:
>>> A Chronology of Murder on United 93
>> Your vivid imagination won't dull Occam's Razor.
>
> Neither will your one-liner critique with no detailed rebuttal.
>

How can you rebut something that has no basis in reality?
 
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:43:14 -0700, TimOsmanOsamaBinLaden wrote:

> A Chronology of Murder on United 93

I have read a little more about this guy.

- he opens up a huge world only really accessible by himself, it
seems, even though his basis is forensic.

All in all this does no one any good unless he can provide tangible proof
for his tangible claims.

There is enough proof and legitimate questions about 9/11. No one needs
theories.
 
TimOsmanOsamaBinLaden@gmail.com wrote:

> A Chronology of Murder on United 93

[...]

> The drone was painted in United's colors and modified to fly remotely
> behind the decoy, using a Pulse Detonation Module to trigger onboard
> rocket-fuel incendiaries, destroy the Capitol Building, kill
> congressmen and senators, and decapitate the American Republic.

I seriously doubt that. Why would the perpetrators destroy their most
valuable property?

WTC7 makes a whole lot more sense as a potential target.
--
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ek5w_wtc7-the-smoking-gun-of-911-updated
http://911research.wtc7.net
http://vehme.blogspot.com
Virtus Tutissima Cassis
 
ZerkonX wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:43:14 -0700, TimOsmanOsamaBinLaden wrote:
>
>> A Chronology of Murder on United 93
>
> I have read a little more about this guy.
>
> - he opens up a huge world only really accessible by himself, it
> seems, even though his basis is forensic.
>
> All in all this does no one any good unless he can provide tangible proof
> for his tangible claims.
>
> There is enough proof and legitimate questions about 9/11. No one needs
> theories.

If by that you mean to say that speculating about the details is moot in the
face of overwhelming evidence that 9/11 was an inside job, I must agree.
--
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ek5w_wtc7-the-smoking-gun-of-911-updated
http://911research.wtc7.net
http://vehme.blogspot.com
Virtus Tutissima Cassis
 
Dersu Uzala <none@isp.com> wrote:

> >>>Just how would they get the decoy in there and the original plane out
> >>>without the airlines or the airport knowing?
>
> Time of order to ground flights on 9/11 : 9:30 am
> Time of crash: 10:06 am
> I think that there was just a little confusion on that day.

The original poster claimed the plane was switched for a decoy
==BEFORE== the confusion began.
 

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