#About that "surge" thingy....

[Mitchell Holman]

Vitor <none@yahoo.net> wrote in
news:46943c8f$0$30623$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> Day Brown wrote:
>> On Jul 8, 4:30 pm, "Joe S." <non...@nosuch.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I participated in one war. I studied war for years and years. I
>>> served on the planning staff for the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
>>>
>>> You need to get a clue about "asymmetrical war." We are past the days
>>> of World War I, World War II and Korea. Hell, we are even past the
>>> days of the Vietnam War.
>>>
>>> Start by reading and understanding Ted Gurr "Why Men Rebel."
>>>
>>> Then read the collected works of Osama Bin Laden.
>> Try Sun Tzu. like maybe http://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm
>> "Understand your enemy, but to do that, first understand yourself."
>> The current government and military suffer from group think. Had they
>> understood themselves and what they were trying to do, this whole Iraq
>> thing never would have unraveled.
>>
>>
> You have a good point with Sun Zu, I have read that one. What you
> seeing is that their strategy is to piss us off until we get tired of
> fighting. This operation will not be stopped by US ability only will.
> There would have to be dramatic shifts in the situation of the US to
> sustain this small operation. To counter that strategy of the terrorist
> is to make the choice to not give up. The only real effect of the war
> on the average person is not taxes or conscription or shortages just
> pictures on TV and people saying stuff that we can choose to avoid if we
> want.
>

Good point. When a country is REALLY at war the public
not only makes large sacrifices but their government calls
on them to make large sacrifices. Which proves this really
isn't a war. Even the war supporters go no further than
putting a bumper sticker on their car while complaining about
the price of Iphones and demanding yet another tax break.

The "terrorists" know the US will eventually tire of
the occupation, just as in Vietnam, just as the British did
in the Revolution. Since the US will leave sooner or later,
why not sooner?



Mitchell Holman

"I think it is vitally important for a President to
know when to use military force. I think it is also
very important for him to know when not to commit U.S.
military force. And it's my view that the President got
it right both times, that it would have been a mistake
for us to get bogged down in the quagmire inside Iraq."
-Dick Cheney, Apr 29, 1991

 

[r wiley]

"Mitchell Holman" <Noemailplease@comcast.com> wrote in message news:Xns996A55E105E5Fta2eene2@216.196.97.131...
>>
>> It is still warfare and it is all about the will to fight.
>
>
>
> Specifically, the IRAQI's will to fight for their own democracy.
>
> (which they won't do as long as the US does it for them, it seems.)
>
>

The Iraqis must not have fallen for the notion that choosing leaders
from a list acceptable to George W. Bush is democracy.

rw

"I was not prepared to shoot my eardrum out with a shotgun in
order to get a deferment. Nor was I willing to go to Canada".

George W. Bush

"I had other priorities."

Dick Cheney

 

[Baldin Lee Pramer]

On Jul 10, 8:48 pm, Vitor <n...@yahoo.net> wrote:
> Baldin Lee Pramer wrote:
> > If you were really
> > interested in addressing the global Islamist threat, you would think
> > for yourself and come up with some outside the box ideas instead of
> > repeating the same tires old talking points.
>
> Great, how about finding out who the radical are. Exposing their hate.

Good start.

> Realizing that they operate globally. They kill people who disagree
> with them. Still Islam is a force around the world. It is completely
> contrary to all we hold important in the west.

I agree. We need to expose the violent nature of Islamic
fundamentalism, and we need to do it without fear. Yes, some of us
will be killed, and maybe some individuals would be safer if they did
not speak out, but we are fighting for our lives and our way of life.

The fact is that Islamic fundamentalism must be sidelined. It cannot
be destroyed because fundamentalism arises naturally when ignorant
people study religious texts. What to do then? We must continually
show the violent, anti-modern, anti-science, anti-women nature of
Islamic fundamentalism at every turn. Ignorant Muslims will get angry,
and may kill some of us and each other, but we must continue to expose
them over and over.

We must not allow any politician to give them any slack. When the
British or Americans let Muslims parade through the street with signs
calling for the death of citizens for insulting Islam, those
politicians and any who support them must be voted out.

> It would also be good to
> look at Islam. I have a Kurdish ? who I write and he hates Islam and
> wants to rid his people of the oppressor's religion. Most of the time
> religions being from other times use strong language that most of the
> time we take as symbolic. God wants you to kill and conquer and it is
> written in the Koran it can be powerful.

Yes, these passages in the Koran must be explained by Islamic
scholars. The intelligent ones do not take this literally, just as
intelligent Christian scholars do not take the passages in the Bible
calling for death for certain sins literally.

> I have asked the question if Islam is compatible with the modern world.
> I don't know that much about the Koran but I am told there is violent
> language. The Bible says that we should kill all gays that is wrong
> although it makes a moral statement.

I agree.

> I am not Islamic and have no
> interest in that religion. It is up to those to not choose to be
> terrorists. First it is families and then the religion at large to not
> engage in this kind war. There is crime and there are acts of war. We
> are in an age were individuals and private groups commit acts of war.
> War is not a humane act. This war is all about using force to make them
> stop. We are not fighting states because no state will risk war with
> the US because they don't want their country to end and more important
> they loose power.

I agree with this also.

Our only disagreement, as far as I can see, is on the nature of the US
war in Iraq.

BLP

 

[Mamamia]

In article <1184172191.734492.244920@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Baldin Lee Pramer <baldinpramer@msn.com> wrote:

> I agree. We need to expose the violent nature of Islamic
> fundamentalism, and we need to do it without fear. Yes, some of us
> will be killed, and maybe some individuals would be safer if they did
> not speak out, but we are fighting for our lives and our way of life.
>
> > It would also be good to
> > look at Islam. I have a Kurdish ? who I write and he hates Islam and
> > wants to rid his people of the oppressor's religion. Most of the time
> > religions being from other times use strong language that most of the
> > time we take as symbolic. God wants you to kill and conquer and it is
> > written in the Koran it can be powerful.
>
> Yes, these passages in the Koran must be explained by Islamic
> scholars. The intelligent ones do not take this literally, just as
> intelligent Christian scholars do not take the passages in the Bible
> calling for death for certain sins literally.

My opinions:
1. WE in the US FUNDED the madrassas where a lot of this crap was
promulgated, so we're getting back our karma, IMHO. You can raise a mad
dog and he'll turn on you, as we now know.
2. We DO need to monitor what the imams are saying in their churches, if
they are fomenting terrorism within the US, then they should be
prosecuted as terrorists/treasonists, hard and swift.
3. The Muslims made a huge mistake when they did not come out forcefully
in the media against islamic fundamentalism after 9/11. They should have
been shouting no, no, no! from the rooftops, on billboards, on TV, etc.
But by not speaking up, they left doubt in every non-islamic mind, mine
included. If they don't think it's right, they should get down to the
knitty-gritty and say so, loud and clear. And if they cannot take a
stand, then I have problems with that.
4. Fundamentalist Christians who say they believe every word of the
Bible exactly as it is written should have no quarrel with Islamics who
say the same thing. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Perhaps they might want to RE-think their ideology. Otherwise, they're
getting exactly what they're handing out.
--
We had the solution to our energy problems...
but they took it away. See the Movie:
"Who Killed the Electric Car?"
by Chris Paine.

 

[Coffee in Madrid]

In article <46944795$0$3112$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Vitor <none@yahoo.net> wrote:

> Coffee in Madrid wrote:
> > In article <4693EE04.6937@moron.com>,
> > Bushsucks <Impeachthedrunkard@moron.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Look, asshole: If the 3500 plus DEAD GI's and 30,000 MAIMED FOR LIFE
> >> are so trivial, WHAT THE **** DID BUSH START THIS TRILLION-DOLLAR
> >> "WAR ON TERROR" FOR?
> >
> > Its no longer a "war on terror".
> >
> > Its really a "war to save US tail under legs as they leave".
>
> How is that? Please cite the victories. The US is not defeated our
> ability to conduct operations has not been impaired by hostile action.
>
> >
> > The "terror war" was in Afghanistan and Pakistan... too bad Bush screwed
> > that up by about a thousand miles and a million dead people.
> >
> > FISHING ACCOMPLISHED!!!
> >
> >
> I can't understand why the war is lost there is no evidence for it or I
> have not seen anything that makes sense from a military point of view
> which has to do with the has to do with the ability of to conduct
> operations.
>
> Nope the war on terror goes around the world. That is identifying and
> engaging in groups that commit acts of war on the US.

The terror war is like the drug war... lumbers on and on with the
poisoning and the killing. And DOESNT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

.... still 26% of US cannot see this. One of them being "w".

Bush goes on vacation... while theres a GUT FEELING FOR TERRORIST ATTACK!

fear fear fear


The insurgents
> have not won a single engagement and their leaders are captured and
> killed at high rates. The past strategy failed of staying on the
> defensive in large bases and...

The insurgents are everywhere. Even in the US.
Only here in America we call them gangsters.


Coffee in LA

 

[charles]

Just because the Religious Right of both Christianity and Islam are
fanatical does not mean they are stupid. President Bush is a
dedicated Fundamentalist Christian and their agenda is to shape the
world in a way that will drive the "hednoist secularists" or our
society back to the Old Scriptures. To achieve that, you beat down
the Muslims and create such bitter hatred for us that they will do
anything to stop us or get even. That is why terrorism has grown.
Remember how religious people became right after 9/11? The Religious
Right of the Muslim world also has that same agenda. It is their wish
to cause us to beat down Muslim countries in order to drive more
Muslims into Muslim fanaticism. What is going on is an Antagonistic
Alliance between the fanatics of both faiths. It is not a new
system. A similar Antagonistic Alliance has existed between the
leadership of Israel and that of the Palestinians for generations.

By the way, I found THE LAST GAS STATION might be interesting and have
downloaded it for further study.

charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com



On Jul 10, 7:13 pm, Vitor <n...@yahoo.net> wrote:
> Day Brown wrote:
> > On Jul 8, 4:30 pm, "Joe S." <non...@nosuch.net> wrote:
>
> >> I participated in one war. I studied war for years and years. I served on
> >> the planning staff for the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
>
> >> You need to get a clue about "asymmetrical war." We are past the days of
> >> World War I, World War II and Korea. Hell, we are even past the days of the
> >> Vietnam War.
>
> >> Start by reading and understanding Ted Gurr "Why Men Rebel."
>
> >> Then read the collected works of Osama Bin Laden.
> > Try Sun Tzu. like maybehttp://www.kimsoft.com/polwar.htm
> > "Understand your enemy, but to do that, first understand yourself."
> > The current government and military suffer from group think. Had they
> > understood themselves and what they were trying to do, this whole Iraq
> > thing never would have unraveled.
>
> You have a good point with Sun Zu, I have read that one. What you
> seeing is that their strategy is to piss us off until we get tired of
> fighting. This operation will not be stopped by US ability only will.
> There would have to be dramatic shifts in the situation of the US to
> sustain this small operation. To counter that strategy of the terrorist
> is to make the choice to not give up. The only real effect of the war
> on the average person is not taxes or conscription or shortages just
> pictures on TV and people saying stuff that we can choose to avoid if we
> want.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

 

[What]

Now the cops that we trained are using that training to fight the US
military. There was a police sergeant here that went over very early in the
war. On one of his "donut mornings" I overheard him telling another police
officer that he was afraid of that very thing happening. A lot of SHIITE
militiamen were in the police force as far back as 2004 when he was there.
Just like in Vietnam with the V.C., the soldier can never trust the Iraqi
police or armed forces. I guess the next development in the war will be the
matked assassination of government leaders that want to run their own
country. You know damned well that Bush, Rove, and Cheney are not gonna put
up with a leader like Maliki who said today that they could get along just
fine without the USA occupying the country. Hell yes they can. His Shiite
controlled government will make short work of the rest of the insurgency
when we leave. Just like Saddaam did. A country like Iraq just like
Yugoslavia need a strongarmed leader or the religious ****heads will take
over kust like the Falwells, Robertsons, and Dobsons have done in the US.
My solution is to round up all the religious ****heads of all the religions
in the world and kill every ****ing one of them. Then and only then will
peace rule in the world. All the sons a bitches want to do is get into it
and kill each other. **** em all.