Adam: the Father of Jesus Christ

[Michael Gray]

On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:17:41 -0500, Joker <post_master@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

>Kater wrote:
><snip>
>>> 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit
>>> shall RETURN unto God who gave it.
>>> Ecclesiastes 12:7
>>
>>
>> God obviously gives "the spirit" (Hebrew: HaRUacH "breath, wind")
>> after the baby's emergence from the mother, as anyone can see who
>> witnesses a successful delivery.
>
><snip>
>
>Sorry to interject here, but are you proposing that life begins at the
>first breath? Do you believe that the baby in utero is not actually a
>living being yet?

Why do folks think that life is either fully switched on, or fully
switched off?
Is it they REALLY actually think such and absurd thing, or is it that
they simply insist on projecting the lie for political advantage?

Life is a continuum, with no discernable stage at which it goes from
one to the other.

 

[Kater]

Joker wrote:
> Kater wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>> 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit
>>> shall RETURN unto God who gave it.
>>> Ecclesiastes 12:7
>>
>>
>>
>> God obviously gives "the spirit" (Hebrew: HaRUacH "breath, wind")
>> after the baby's emergence from the mother, as anyone can see who
>> witnesses a successful delivery.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Sorry to interject here, but are you proposing that life begins at the
> first breath?


I'm not proposing anything, just discussing what scripture says
about it.

The Old Testament, for example, recognizes no such thing as murder
or manslaughter of a child in a pregnant mother. Nor does the New
Testament legislate any new law on the matter. According to the Bible,
therefore, the fetus is part of the mother until birth, and has no
rights of its own; hence it cannot be murdered, and only when it becomes
fully functional and independent of the mother, or life support, is it
capable of securing a right to life for itself.

This doctrine also flows from the Book of Mormon, since it has
Christ in heaven on the day before he was to be born in the flesh,
explicitly stating that he would come into the world only when he was
born: "on this night shall the sign be given [of Christ's birth], and ON
THE MORROW come I into the world." (3 Nephi 1:13) It is interesting that
the so-called Christian "right to life" movement is unsupported by
Scripture, and Mormons who align themselves with that movement deny the
clear teaching of the Book of Mormon.


> Do you believe that the baby in utero is not actually a
> living being yet?

I wouldn't be dogmatic. The physiology of the fetus is much, much
more complicated than this, and the Bible and Book of Mormon are not
free of error; so better principles might be formulated; only not on
the basis of the Bible and the Book of Mormon, as they stand.

 

[Aaron Kim]

"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
newsd9rf3hhangism2v0deglscen2t93kcl0k@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:34:21 -0000, Andres64 <andresc64@excite.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sep 28, 6:53 pm, Andres64 <andres...@excite.com> wrote:
>>> On Sep 28, 4:29 pm, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > "john p" <john.ph...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> >news:1190963920.179303.24740@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > > On Sep 27, 7:33 pm, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>> > >> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:39:09 +0100, "wmech" <wm...@bellsouth.net>
>>> > >> wrote:
>>>
>>> > >> >You need to see a psychiatrist. Your brain is garbled!
>>>
>>> > >> He claims to have done so on numerous occasions.
>>> > >> It hasn't worked.
>>>
>>> > > It might have helped if he didn't flee the country when they were
>>> > > about to institutionalize him.
>>>
>>> > Art has never broken any laws and is not a fugitive. Art's wife Cathy
>>> > and
>>> > his mother in law tried to commit him in a mental hospital because he
>>> > said
>>> > he was receiving revelations from God. The psychiatrist who examined
>>> > him
>>> > said that there was nothing wrong with him. Even his wife said that
>>> > she
>>> > received a testimony that Art's a genuine prophet while she was at
>>> > work that
>>> > lasted around half an hour according to what she told Art. She denied
>>> > it
>>> > saying it was of the devil unfortunately. I've had quite a many
>>> > spiritual
>>> > manifestations telling me Art's a prophet.
>>>
>>> LOLOLOLOL. You are a kook.
>>
>>I'm sorry. After further consideration, I take that back. You are a
>>gullible retard, Art is a kook.
>
> No, you got it right.
> Aaron is both a gullible retard, AND a 24ct KOOK.
> Art is an insane con-man.

You're everything that you accused us of being.

"And we shall at last have to come to this conclusion, whatever we may think
of revelation, that without it we can neither know nor understand anything
of God, or the devil; and however unwilling the world may be to acknowledge
this principle, it is evident from the multifarious creeds and notions
concerning this matter that they understand nothing of this principle, and
it is equally as plain that without a divine communication they must remain
in ignorance. The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and
those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets, and hence
they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these
had to hide themselves "in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth," and
though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their
society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves,
vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men."

(Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected and
arranged by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.205)

 

[Free Lunch]

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:07:57 -0700, in alt.atheism
"Aaron Kim" <aaron@artbulla.com> wrote in
<5na9ibFh4e2eU1@mid.individual.net>:
>
>
>"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>newsd9rf3hhangism2v0deglscen2t93kcl0k@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 23:34:21 -0000, Andres64 <andresc64@excite.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sep 28, 6:53 pm, Andres64 <andres...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sep 28, 4:29 pm, "Aaron Kim" <aa...@artbulla.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > "john p" <john.ph...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> >news:1190963920.179303.24740@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> > > On Sep 27, 7:33 pm, Michael Gray <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>>> > >> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 19:39:09 +0100, "wmech" <wm...@bellsouth.net>
>>>> > >> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > >> >You need to see a psychiatrist. Your brain is garbled!
>>>>
>>>> > >> He claims to have done so on numerous occasions.
>>>> > >> It hasn't worked.
>>>>
>>>> > > It might have helped if he didn't flee the country when they were
>>>> > > about to institutionalize him.
>>>>
>>>> > Art has never broken any laws and is not a fugitive. Art's wife Cathy
>>>> > and
>>>> > his mother in law tried to commit him in a mental hospital because he
>>>> > said
>>>> > he was receiving revelations from God. The psychiatrist who examined
>>>> > him
>>>> > said that there was nothing wrong with him. Even his wife said that
>>>> > she
>>>> > received a testimony that Art's a genuine prophet while she was at
>>>> > work that
>>>> > lasted around half an hour according to what she told Art. She denied
>>>> > it
>>>> > saying it was of the devil unfortunately. I've had quite a many
>>>> > spiritual
>>>> > manifestations telling me Art's a prophet.
>>>>
>>>> LOLOLOLOL. You are a kook.
>>>
>>>I'm sorry. After further consideration, I take that back. You are a
>>>gullible retard, Art is a kook.
>>
>> No, you got it right.
>> Aaron is both a gullible retard, AND a 24ct KOOK.
>> Art is an insane con-man.
>
>You're everything that you accused us of being.

So you say, but have no evidence to support it with.
>
>"And we shall at last have to come to this conclusion, whatever we may think
>of revelation, that without it we can neither know nor understand anything
>of God, or the devil; and however unwilling the world may be to acknowledge
>this principle, it is evident from the multifarious creeds and notions
>concerning this matter that they understand nothing of this principle, and
>it is equally as plain that without a divine communication they must remain
>in ignorance. The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and
>those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets, and hence
>they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these
>had to hide themselves "in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth," and
>though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their
>society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves,
>vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men."
>
> (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, selected and
>arranged by Joseph Fielding Smith, p.205)

Your religion is without evidence, just as all others are. Why are you
trying to sell your religion to us when you cannot offer a shred of
evidence to persuade us that your religion is valid?