ANOTHER GOD QUESTION

[Bill M]

Another god question.



If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was he
so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues, Tsunamis,
Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.



Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?

 

[marttila69@hotmail.com]

Bill M wrote:
Another god question.



If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
was he
so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
Tsunamis,
Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.



Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?

Answer:

God even allows Satan free to do his damage but in the end Satan will
be thrown into the lake of fire. If God doesn't protect you then the
Devil can do what he wants to you.

God is more interested in the end product and not simply protecting one
persons mortal life, we weren't brought into being just to be thrown
into the lake of fire and if God has to allow Satan to bring evil into
peoples lives to bring people closer to God then God will but it is
usually as a last resort for godless rebellious people.

Job 1:6-22 (NRSV)

Attack on Job's Character

6 One day the heavenly beings came to present themselves before the
Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan,
"Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From going
to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it." 8 The
Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no
one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God
and turns away from evil." 9 Then Satan answered the Lord, "Does
Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have you not put a fence around him and
his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work
of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But
stretch out your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse
you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, all that
he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against
him!" So Satanh went out from the presence of the Lord.

Job Loses Property and Children

13 One day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in
the eldest brother's house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said,
"The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding beside them, 15
and the Sabeans fell on them and carried them off, and killed the
servants with the edge of the sword; I alone have escaped to tell
you." 16 While he was still speaking, another came and said, "The
fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants,
and consumed them; I alone have escaped to tell you." 17 While he was
still speaking, another came and said, "The Chaldeans formed three
columns, made a raid on the camels and carried them off, and killed the
servants with the edge of the sword; I alone have escaped to tell
you." 18 While he was still speaking, another came and said, "Your
sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest
brother's house, 19 and suddenly a great wind came across the desert,
struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people,
and they are dead; I alone have escaped to tell you."

20 Then Job arose, tore his robe, shaved his head, and fell on the
ground and worshiped. 21 He said, "Naked I came from my mother's
womb, and naked shall I return there; the Lord gave, and the Lord has
taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord."

22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing.

 

[chiron613@gmail.com]

Actually, this does nothing to explain the question. It just shows
that God has been doing this for millennia - something we already knew.

WHY did God allow Satan to torment Job? Why, in fact, did God create
Satan, and why (if Satan just "went bad", as some claim) doesn't God
get rid of Satan?

Did you ever see the movie, "Old Yeller"? It's about a great dog. But
the dog gets rabies, and they have to shoot it at the end. That's what
you do with rabid dogs - you shoot them, because they're in misery, and
they can be extremely dangerous.

The Bible doesn't really explain much of this. It just tells us that
God does things like this - letting Satan wreak havoc on people, even
good people.


marttila69@hotmail.com wrote:
> Bill M wrote:
> Another god question.
>
>
>
> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
> was he
> so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> Tsunamis,
> Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
>
>
> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>
> Answer:
>
> God even allows Satan free to do his damage but in the end Satan will
> be thrown into the lake of fire. If God doesn't protect you then the
> Devil can do what he wants to you.
>
> God is more interested in the end product and not simply protecting one
> persons mortal life, we weren't brought into being just to be thrown
> into the lake of fire and if God has to allow Satan to bring evil into
> peoples lives to bring people closer to God then God will but it is
> usually as a last resort for godless rebellious people.
>
> Job 1:6-22 (NRSV)
>
> Attack on Job's Character
>
> 6 One day the heavenly beings came to present themselves before the
> Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan,
> "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the Lord, "From going
> to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it." 8 The
> Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no
> one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God
> and turns away from evil." 9 Then Satan answered the Lord, "Does
> Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have you not put a fence around him and
> his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work
> of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But
> stretch out your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse
> you to your face." 12 The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, all that
> he has is in your power; only do not stretch out your hand against
> him!" So Satanh went out from the presence of the Lord.
>
> Job Loses Property and Children
>
> 13 One day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in
> the eldest brother's house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said,
> "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding beside them, 15
> and the Sabeans fell on them and carried them off, and killed the
> servants with the edge of the sword; I alone have escaped to tell
> you." 16 While he was still speaking, another came and said, "The
> fire of God fell from heaven and burned up the sheep and the servants,
> and consumed them; I alone have escaped to tell you." 17 While he was
> still speaking, another came and said, "The Chaldeans formed three
> columns, made a raid on the camels and carried them off, and killed the
> servants with the edge of the sword; I alone have escaped to tell
> you." 18 While he was still speaking, another came and said, "Your
> sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest
> brother's house, 19 and suddenly a great wind came across the desert,
> struck the four corners of the house, and it fell on the young people,
> and they are dead; I alone have escaped to tell you."
>
> 20 Then Job arose, tore his robe, shaved his head, and fell on the
> ground and worshiped. 21 He said, "Naked I came from my mother's
> womb, and naked shall I return there; the Lord gave, and the Lord has
> taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord."
>
> 22 In all this Job did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing.

 

[Greywolf]

"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:WBZRg.23233$eW5.6309@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Another god question.
>
>
>
> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was
> he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
>
>
> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>
>

The only real 'comeback' the theists can possibly use in this regard is that
'God' works 'in mysterious ways'. Which is another way of saying that either
the 'Love God' could care less about the creatures he 'created', or that he
is utterly helpless to control the forces you describe. But the 'real'
answer is that 'God' doesn't exist at all -- excepting in the imagination.
That should now be as obvious as the sun.

And when you think about it, the 'God' man has made out of whole cloth is
about as disgusting and nonsensical a 'God' -- as well as plain-ass
'mean' -- as you could care to invent. Puke. Our Israelite anscestors could
have done better that that . Don't you think? (Where in the hell is that
Golden Calf?)

Greywolf

 

[Pangur Ban]

"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in
news:12hgtl8gi2i5ra4@corp.supernews.com:

>
> "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:WBZRg.23233$eW5.6309@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> Another god question.
>>
>>
>>
>> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
>> was he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
>> Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods
>> etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>>
>>
>
> The only real 'comeback' the theists can possibly use in this regard
> is that 'God' works 'in mysterious ways'. Which is another way of
> saying that either the 'Love God' could care less about the creatures
> he 'created', or that he is utterly helpless to control the forces you
> describe. But the 'real' answer is that 'God' doesn't exist at all --
> excepting in the imagination. That should now be as obvious as the
> sun.

An alternative belief is that the world was created and mankind evolved
as a part of it. This means that humanity must face the natural
disasters which are part of the world. No instigation nor interference
by "god". Humanity must stand on its own two feet - even if a hurricane
blows them over, a flood sweeps their feet from beneath them, or they
face extinction as they did once before (and I'm not referring no the
non-existant Noah's flood.)etc.

>
(Where in the
> hell is that Golden Calf?)

Probably (if you are wearing any) a part of your gold rings, watch, etc.
I love the thought I might have a trace of something worn by Cleopatra
in my gold ring.

Pang

 

[ike milligan]

"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:WBZRg.23233$eW5.6309@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Another god question.
>
>
>
> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was
> he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
>
>
> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>
Atheists don't believe in that.

 

[Libertarius]

chiron613@gmail.com wrote:
> Actually, this does nothing to explain the question. It just shows
> that God has been doing this for millennia - something we already knew.
>
> WHY did God allow Satan to torment Job? Why, in fact, did God create
> Satan, and why (if Satan just "went bad", as some claim) doesn't God
> get rid of Satan?
>
> Did you ever see the movie, "Old Yeller"? It's about a great dog. But
> the dog gets rabies, and they have to shoot it at the end. That's what
> you do with rabid dogs - you shoot them, because they're in misery, and
> they can be extremely dangerous.
>
> The Bible doesn't really explain much of this. It just tells us that
> God does things like this - letting Satan wreak havoc on people, even
> good people.

===>DON'T EXPECT LOGIC IN RELIGIOUS STORIES
or any other fairy tales that contain magic. -- L.

 

[Samuel W. Heywood]

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006, Bill M wrote:

> Another god question.
>
> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
> was he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> Tsunamis,Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?

Your problem is that you are taking all of these things personally.
Just stop taking it personally all of the things He does or which
you think He does and which you consider wrong. Then everything
will be all right. Just be happy and be here now.

Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62

 

[Danny Dot]

"Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:WBZRg.23233$eW5.6309@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Another god question.
>
>
>
> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was
> he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
>
>
> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>
>

Have you read "Conversation with God". In this book the author states God
is perfect love, but to understand perfect love you need to see something
else.

Danny Dot
www.mobbinggonemad.org

 

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet (marttila69@hotmail.com)
made the light shine upon us with this:

>
> Bill M wrote:
> Another god question.
>
>
>
> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
> was he
> so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> Tsunamis,
> Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
>
>
> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>
> Answer:
>
> God even allows Satan free to do his damage but in the end Satan will
> be thrown into the lake of fire. If God doesn't protect you then the
> Devil can do what he wants to you.

Since god didn't protect anyone from all those natural disasters, then
you are saying they are the work of the devil?

Those of us who dwell in reality have a word for people like you.

Paranoid.

<snip bibble-babble>



--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man

 

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Danny Dot
(don't.mail.me@no.way) made the light shine upon us with this:

> "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:WBZRg.23233$eW5.6309@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> Another god question.
>>
>>
>>
>> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
>> was he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
>> Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods
>> etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>>
>>
>
> Have you read "Conversation with God". In this book the author states
> God is perfect love, but to understand perfect love you need to see
> something else.
>

Like Perfect Fear?

Or Perfect Collection Plate?

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man

 

[joe]

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:28:28 -0400, "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>Another god question.
>
>
>
>If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was he
>so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues, Tsunamis,
>Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
>
>
>Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?


contrary to the myth that God is ' all loving ' it is written in the
Holy Scriptures that God does NOT love everybody:

" The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of
iniquity. " Ps. 5:5

"God is a just judge, And God is angry with the wicked every day."
Ps. 7:11

your own disdain for God proves that the world is not a good place to
live in regardless of plagues, tsunamis, tornadoes and the like...

" An unjust man is an abomination to the righteous, And he who is
upright in the way is an abomination to the wicked. " Pv.29:27 as you
prove from your post.

furthermore, natural events such as plagues, tsunamis, tornadoes and
the like ' is the evidence of an all powerful God ' just as you
admit... and is His judgement against evil people...

"But the wicked shall perish; And the enemies of the LORD, Like the
splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish
away " Ps. 37:20

" He also prepares for Himself instruments of death " Ps. 7:13

the lie that God loves everybody is prevalent in peoples minds but
Gods own Words state clearly that He hates the wicked ( Ps. 5:5 )
and is angry with them everyday. Ps. 7:11

God loves only the elect...

"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You
have given Me, for they are Yours. " Jo.17:9

 

[Panama Floyd]

Danny Dot wrote:
> "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:WBZRg.23233$eW5.6309@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > Another god question.
> >
> >
> >
> > If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was
> > he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> > Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
> >
> >
>
> Have you read "Conversation with God". In this book the author states God
> is perfect love, but to understand perfect love you need to see something
> else.

IOW, he fails to define "god" concretely enough for someone to be able
to test the definition. A coward. Sorry, a book that cowardly would
look really silly on the same shelf as "The End of Faith" and "The
Bible Unearthed". I think I can safely skip that one.

-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man, Sep 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are less moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

 

[Panama Floyd]

marttila69@hotmail.com wrote:
> Bill M wrote:
> Another god question.
>
>
>
> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
> was he
> so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> Tsunamis,
> Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
>
>
> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>
> Answer:
>
> God even allows Satan free to do his

blahblahblahblahFREEWILLblahblahblahblahblah.

Here's the real answer.
http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man, Sep 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are less moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

 

[MarkA]

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:28:28 -0400, Bill M wrote:

> Another god question.
>
>
>
> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was
> he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>
>
>
> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?

You are overlooking the fact that God is grossly incompetent. The only
reason that he still has his job is because there is nobody higher than
him in the organization.

First, He makes a Paradise, and puts Adam and Eve in it. But they rebel,
and He has to cast them out. Then He gets REALLY pissed that things
aren't going His way, so He exterminates every living thing except Noah,
his family, and whatever animals managed to survive for a year cooped up
in the ark. But Noah's descendants are sinning again, so He has to send
Jesus to clean up the mess. We all know how well THAT worked out. So
now, 2000 years after the latest service pack upgrade, people all over the
world are killing, maiming, and torturing each other in the name of their
respective Gods.

I suppose that if it were God's intention to create a Universe that looks
like it is unplanned, undesigned, and not watched over by a Supreme Being,
He has been very successful. If not, you are pretty much stuck with one
of the following: He is incompetent, insane, sadistic, or He doesn't
exist at all. Personally, I'll go with "doesn't exist". It helps me
sleep better.

--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)

 

[Robibnikoff]

"Samuel W. Heywood" <sheywood@MyRealBox.com> wrote in message
newsine.NEB.4.62.0609252146360.18601@sdf.lonestar.org...
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006, Bill M wrote:
>
>> Another god question.
>>
>> If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
>> was he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
>> Tsunamis,Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
>>
>> Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
>
> Your problem is that you are taking all of these things personally.
> Just stop taking it personally all of the things He does or which
> you think He does and which you consider wrong. Then everything
> will be all right. Just be happy and be here now.

In other words - Turn off your brain.

No thanks, I prefer to use mine.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557

 

[Lucifer]

Danny Dot wrote:
> "Bill M" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:WBZRg.23233$eW5.6309@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> > Another god question.
> >
> >
> >
> > If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why was
> > he so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> > Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
> >
> >
>
> Have you read "Conversation with God". In this book the author states God
> is perfect love, but to understand perfect love you need to see something
> else.

IE, redefine the word love, bloody hell there dudes, you've managed to
shoot yourself in the foot a bit there.
"HEY EVERYONE, IT'S A WALKING (rather badly) CLICHE!"

>
> Danny Dot
> www.mobbinggonemad.org

 

[chiron613@gmail.com]

> have done better that that . Don't you think? (Where in the hell is that
> Golden Calf?)
>
And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and
ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the
children of Israel drink of it.
(Exodus 32:20)

Glad you asked. Here's the answer, right close to where the whole
incident is discussed.

Note what Moses did with the calf. This is an interesting thing, if
you have some familiarity with the Bible. He burned it, ground it to
powder, put it into the water, and "made the Children of Israel drink
of it".

Why did Moses do something like that? Why not, say, melt it into a
club, and beat them with it?

It has to do with a ritual called the Sotah ritual, which took place
when a man suspected his wife of marital infidelity. He'd bring her to
the priest. They priest would write a curse down "in a book". The
curse basically said that, if the woman had cheated on her husband,
then let her belly swell and her thigh rot. Bad stuff.

The book was "blotted in water", then burned. The ashes were put into
the water, and the woman was made to drink that water. If she swelled
up and died, she was guilty.

What Moses did was similar - and for the same reason, the "infidelity"
of the Children of Israel.

 

[panamfloyd@hotmail.com]

chiron613@gmail.com wrote:
> > have done better that that . Don't you think? (Where in the hell is that
> > Golden Calf?)
> >
> And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and
> ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the
> children of Israel drink of it.
> (Exodus 32:20)
>
> Glad you asked. Here's the answer, right close to where the whole
> incident is discussed.
>
> Note what Moses did with the calf. This is an interesting thing, if
> you have some familiarity with the Bible. He burned it, ground it to
> powder, put it into the water, and "made the Children of Israel drink
> of it".
>
> Why did Moses do something like that? Why not, say, melt it into a
> club, and beat them with it?

It really doesn't matter, because it never happened.
http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Unearthed-Archaeologys-Vision-Ancient/dp/0684869128
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_arhs.htm

-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man Sept 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are less moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

 

[Tuco Ramirez]

Uncle Vic wrote:
> Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet (marttila69@hotmail.com)
> made the light shine upon us with this:
>
> >
> > Bill M wrote:
> > Another god question.
> >
> >
> >
> > If this all loving god created the Universe and everything in it, why
> > was he
> > so cruel that he created 12,000 illnesses and killing Plagues,
> > Tsunamis,
> > Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth Quakes, Wars, Floods etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this evidence of an all powerful and loving god?
> >
> > Answer:
> >
> > God even allows Satan free to do his damage but in the end Satan will
> > be thrown into the lake of fire. If God doesn't protect you then the
> > Devil can do what he wants to you.
>
> Since god didn't protect anyone from all those natural disasters, then
> you are saying they are the work of the devil?
>
> Those of us who dwell in reality have a word for people like you.
>
> Paranoid.
>
> <snip bibble-babble>
>
>

And I quote:

" Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man"

And you have the nerve to make judgments on other people's mental
state.

May I suggest you leave those pills alone, specially the yellow ones?