Are parents dropping the ball more and more as the years go on?

[angie]

Aww thanks you made me blush!
I will officially be a mom in 18 weeks...and I can't wait!! I'm scared, I'm excited, I'm happy, I'm overwhelmed...all the first time parent emotions, but the good are definitely being overrun by the bad.
I think there is alot to be said for stay at home parents. For one, it IS alot of work! I don't know if we can do it financially. However, I plan on working as little as possible. And four days a month, my daughter will be with my mom during the workweek so she won't have to go to daycare. But I think if we work things just right, I will be able to stay home.

 

[skategreen]

NOTE: MY OPINION. NOT YOURS. NOT LAW. NOT TRYING TO CHANGE YOU. JUST MY OPINION. GOT IT? GOOD.

.

CES! Once again you and BUILDER are seeing the same sun...as I am.

I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would say, "oh I was hit, it was good for me, and I'd do it to my children".

It's so bloody unnecessary.

OK, so I only had one child and was blessed with a magical little girl I adored, talked to, consulted, and played with. Things went swimmingly. She's now an incredibly honest, decent, caring, and adventurous soul. If this was my only experience I might not feel so certain of my viewpoints - after all, I hit the brass ring with her, right?

Well I taught 3-6 year olds for 11 years. All the parents or parents to be out there, who think you can't raise a child without hitting? How the Hell do you think the teachers manage? We can't hit.

We can't hit, we can't scream, swear, threaten, take things away, ground them, or lock them in rooms. (though the thought DOES cross one's mind in the beginning, when you're not a pro!!!)

Nope. We gotta talk to the kids. We must set a good example, and listen, and above all...ya just gotta love 'em. Praise Praise Praise ANYTHING you want to see repeated...like a fricken HAWK you're on that one.

Everything your kid does at home, he's tried in my class room. And even more. The funny thing is, they came in with all their hairy flaws, all their tried and true really ****ed up ways of dealing with things - violence, revolt, back talk, selfish and downright mean tricks. And...
they blossomed.

Every single one of them ... blossomed. I had no failures, and I was adored.

If I said no I meant no. If I said maybe, they learned that meant we needed to see, we needed more information and how the day was to unfold before an answer could be given. I didn't say it out of laziness. They learned that yes meant yes.

They didn't have to share their toys and weren't shamed/blackmailed or extorted into it. They learned to do it because they LIKED each other. Because I SHARED. Because they were totally in control of their own things and could make their own decisions. Some things they didn't share. FINE. I don't share everything either. (there are MANY people I wouldn't loan my car to, why should your child share his most cherished or favorite or important things??????????)

I made mistakes, took ownership, apologized. I let them know when I didn't know and would try to find out for them. I constantly learned to do things with them, they cheered me on when I finally could make it to the top of the rope.

Kids are people. Pure and simple. ONLY only that. They are actually really COOL people without a lot of crap to wade through and their love and respect are sooooooooo easily won. Oh my, they're the easiest people to get along with.

Good food, sleep, a nice cuddle, and lots of listening - real interest and enjoyment - cures just about everything.

The only tool I had as "punishment" was time out. That was a chair you sat in when you're really screwing up the whole group. Rarely used. 5 minutes was eternity and handled it ... pretty much forever for most.

If parents are dropping the ball, it's because they don't know how to do better (except for that percentage that are just evil) ... and they're just meting out what was done with them. sigh

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Aww thanks you made me blush!
I will officially be a mom in 18 weeks...and I can't wait!! I'm scared, I'm excited, I'm happy, I'm overwhelmed...all the first time parent emotions, but the good are definitely being overrun by the bad.
I think there is alot to be said for stay at home parents. For one, it IS alot of work! I don't know if we can do it financially. However, I plan on working as little as possible. And four days a month, my daughter will be with my mom during the workweek so she won't have to go to daycare. But I think if we work things just right, I will be able to stay home.

Congratulations! Words of advice here...

You need much LESS than you think you do.

Your new baby needs very little in the way of "things" but needs quite a lot in the way of "you".

The time and effort you invest in these first 5 years, will either pay you back in spades, or haunt you the rest of this childs life!

Baby resale shops (if they are in your area) are A BARGAIN!

When holding the baby, RELAX. It's not as breakable as you think. After all, the little sucker had to squirt through that itty bitty birth canal now didn't it? My first son, I held like a priceless Ming vase, my second one I held like a cherished family heirloom, my third son...well I soon held him like my college backpack, and you know something, we enjoyed each other all the more for it!

My grandmother told me once, hug and kiss that baby every day of its life, and when someday it leaves you for its own home, hug and kiss it each and every time you see it, and it will always return to you with love for you.

She was a very wise woman. I believe her. I kiss and hug my sons each and every day.

 

[skategreen]

Someday, if you choose it, I think you will be a great Mom.

This is EXACTLY why I am "Mr. Mom", the single parent wonder, and a damn good one too. People ask me all the time, "Don't you have a job?" and I say "Yes I do. The most important job in the world, but I don't get paid with something so trivial and fleeting as money!". This is when they usually drop their teeth on the ground...

In fact, I'm writing this after having had homemade tilapia fish dinner at 4:30, followed by cleaning the kitchen, ensuring the showers get done, helping with and supervising the homework (x 3), doing 3 loads of laundry, changing the washed sheets on the beds before bedtime, and squeezing in a few moments at the GF site....Tired? Yes. Worth it? Absolutely!

There's a lot of work in heaven..for angels such as yourself...

but afterall....

it IS heaven, isn't it?

 

[skategreen]

My grandmother told me once, hug and kiss that baby every day of its life, and when someday it leaves you for its own home, hug and kiss it each and every time you see it, and it will always return to you with love for you.

She was a very wise woman. I believe her. I kiss and hug my sons each and every day.

You brought a smile of memory there...

One day, cuddled in my chair, drinking in the sight of my 4 month old daughter..talking (as ever) to her...I told her of how I realized I kissed her a LOT. All the time! and wondered aloud - how many times a day I really kissed her? I said it must be at least a hundred..
"here...let's see!"...and I kissed her ten times. "that's ten!"
then..I did it again. I did it again and again..and kissed her a hundred times.

After the kissing was done, I compared it to what went on in a day, and told her "yes".."yes..the experiment proves it, I kiss you at least that many times each day...so I must kiss you more than a hundred times a day!"

She didn't seem to mind at all.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

There's a lot of work in heaven..for angels such as yourself...

but afterall....

it IS heaven, isn't it?

I don't know about angels, but I'll tell you something love...

If my children speak half as kindly about me after I'm gone, as you do about your father, then my life will have been an astounding success of incalculable measure...

 

[angie]

Congratulations! Words of advice here...

You need much LESS than you think you do.

Your new baby needs very little in the way of "things" but needs quite a lot in the way of "you".

The time and effort you invest in these first 5 years, will either pay you back in spades, or haunt you the rest of this childs life!

Baby resale shops (if they are in your area) are A BARGAIN!

When holding the baby, RELAX. It's not as breakable as you think. After all, the little sucker had to squirt through that itty bitty birth canal now didn't it? My first son, I held like a priceless Ming vase, my second one I held like a cherished family heirloom, my third son...well I soon held him like my college backpack, and you know something, we enjoyed each other all the more for it!

My grandmother told me once, hug and kiss that baby every day of its life, and when someday it leaves you for its own home, hug and kiss it each and every time you see it, and it will always return to you with love for you.

She was a very wise woman. I believe her. I kiss and hug my sons each and every day.

I have no qualms about using "pre-owned" baby stuff. I have bought new clothes, but have gotten some used I'm sure I will be going through LOTS of onesies a used crib new mattress was given a carseat by a parent at work inspected for safety and meets all standards . And we do have a resale shop in the area that I plan on using. I'm not too terribly concerned: I am going to breastfeed free and make homemade baby food as my mother did . So clothes and diapers. And, of course, toys. And books. I can't wait to take her to the weekly story time at Barnes and Noble. Heck I can't wait to start reading her stories NOW. In about three weeks she will be able to hear everything going on outside the womb according to all the medical mumbo jumbo I have read so baby bonding will be starting waaay before birth.

 

[skategreen]

I don't know about angels, but I'll tell you something love...

If my children speak half as kindly about me after I'm gone, as you do about your father, then my life will have been an astounding success of incalculable measure...

Ohhhh..that...was very kind.

Today...is ten years. Ten years ago today...dad passed.

I'm thinking of posting the things I wrote for him today.

It's been a dad day

all day long.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I have no qualms about using "pre-owned" baby stuff. I have bought new clothes, but have gotten some used I'm sure I will be going through LOTS of onesies a used crib new mattress was given a carseat by a parent at work inspected for safety and meets all standards . And we do have a resale shop in the area that I plan on using. I'm not too terribly concerned: I am going to breastfeed free and make homemade baby food as my mother did . So clothes and diapers. And, of course, toys. And books. I can't wait to take her to the weekly story time at Barnes and Noble. Heck I can't wait to start reading her stories NOW. In about three weeks she will be able to hear everything going on outside the womb according to all the medical mumbo jumbo I have read so baby bonding will be starting waaay before birth.

BRAVO! Good for you! You're going to be an EXCELLENT mother...I can tell.

Here's a hint for you Mommy...That baby has been bonding with you from the moment that first fertalized egg divided into two cells. The question is, will you continue that bonding once it comes out of you and I am certain that you will!

A friend of mine who could not have a child once asked me what it was like to have a child. I thought about it for a moment, and then said...

"Having a child is taking a piece of your soul, and letting it go walk around outside of your body."

She just smiled...

 

[skategreen]

I have no qualms about using "pre-owned" baby stuff. I have bought new clothes, but have gotten some used I'm sure I will be going through LOTS of onesies a used crib new mattress was given a carseat by a parent at work inspected for safety and meets all standards . And we do have a resale shop in the area that I plan on using. I'm not too terribly concerned: I am going to breastfeed free and make homemade baby food as my mother did . So clothes and diapers. And, of course, toys. And books. I can't wait to take her to the weekly story time at Barnes and Noble. Heck I can't wait to start reading her stories NOW. In about three weeks she will be able to hear everything going on outside the womb according to all the medical mumbo jumbo I have read so baby bonding will be starting waaay before birth.

Ohhh you lucky lucky Smart Girl!!! Oh you're in for so much fun! I'm so glad!

Wish we could throw a virtual shower for you!

Hmmmmmm

not a bad idea actually....

too bad it's not smart to post one's address online...ebay...delivers...

 

[Ruse]

"Having a child is taking a piece of your soul, and letting it go walk around outside of your body."

She just smiled...

As for myself, I hate kids and babies -shudder-.

My best friend had a baby when she was fourteen, over the summer break. She was the first and only person to show me what a baby really was-- that I could actually enjoy something like that, akin to the enjoyment and contentedness I get from my cats. Reading what you just typed, CES, took me back to remembering how it felt to be 'Auntie Andrea'. It's nice.
You're very insightful, and it sounds like you're more than just a wonderful father. Aww, it made me smile, heh.
Keep up the good work.

 

[Silver_dragon87]

Ah, Jhony and CES, you completely missed my point. I don't blame you for it; the process that leads a person to a point where the loss of something tiny and inconsequential can remind them that they no longer want to live is long and complex. I could describe my thoughts to you, but it no matter how matter-of-fact I wrote it, you would always see it as whining. Let me put it very pragmatically for you both: I, SD, have absolutely no desire to live. Neither, generally, do I have a great desire to die, though I probably would take the opportunity if a very cowardly, easy one presented itself I remain here only because I don't wish to inflict any undue pain on anyone. Life is short, so no matter how miserable I may be some days, it won't last for long.

So while I stand firm in my belief that I am not being dramatic--I spend a lot of time alone, I think about these things--I can see how you might feel that way. You're entitled to your view. But please don't think so little of me as to assume that it is BECAUSE I don't always get what I want--or something I love or enjoy is taken away--because that WOULD be childish and 'drama-queen'esque. The reasons for my state, not to make it sound unjustly dramatic, are quite serious and very important to me. If anyone happens to be interested, I am always open to discussion, but otherwise I don't care to go off on another tangent about them.

Moving along, after reading a few more replies I have to say that while I do think that spanking can be a useful and effective tool, I certainly wouldn't use it all the time. I realize that I sort of gave that impression. My favourite method is a well-executed 'time out.' Supernanny style. Seems to work every time, I feel it would have worked on me when I was young and I wouldn't have ended up with the resentment and bitterness I did because I was raised mostly on the 'take away what they love' system. I find it vindictive, personally. It sounds spoiled, but it's how I see it. Taking something from someone has nothing to do with teaching them--it's a form of discipline that doesn't teach anything. And both systems, for the love of ****, need all the patience and love in the world to back them up. You can't spank without love.


Am I the only one who thinks that sounds perverted?

Skate, I'm sure we could all use more teachers like you, especially for young kids who have shitty parents >_<

(I'm replying as I go, hence this jump: )

Okay, getting a little mushy for my taste >_<

Angie, I'm glad there's you. There'll be at least one child that's not ****ed up and abused, so good on you and good luck.

 

[Outlaw2747]

I normally would consider having a child these dyas cruel and unusual punishment to a human being but seeing that you are an intelligent and focused person Angie, I congratulate you. I am relieved that you will not be like the knuckledraggers of today.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Ah, Jhony and CES, you completely missed my point. I don't blame you for it; the process that leads a person to a point where the loss of something tiny and inconsequential can remind them that they no longer want to live is long and complex. I could describe my thoughts to you, but it no matter how matter-of-fact I wrote it, you would always see it as whining. Let me put it very pragmatically for you both: I, SD, have absolutely no desire to live. Neither, generally, do I have a great desire to die, though I probably would take the opportunity if a very cowardly, easy one presented itself I remain here only because I don't wish to inflict any undue pain on anyone. Life is short, so no matter how miserable I may be some days, it won't last for long.

So while I stand firm in my belief that I am not being dramatic--I spend a lot of time alone, I think about these things--I can see how you might feel that way. You're entitled to your view. But please don't think so little of me as to assume that it is BECAUSE I don't always get what I want--or something I love or enjoy is taken away--because that WOULD be childish and 'drama-queen'esque. The reasons for my state, not to make it sound unjustly dramatic, are quite serious and very important to me. If anyone happens to be interested, I am always open to discussion, but otherwise I don't care to go off on another tangent about them.

Moving along, after reading a few more replies I have to say that while I do think that spanking can be a useful and effective tool, I certainly wouldn't use it all the time. I realize that I sort of gave that impression. My favourite method is a well-executed 'time out.' Supernanny style. Seems to work every time, I feel it would have worked on me when I was young and I wouldn't have ended up with the resentment and bitterness I did because I was raised mostly on the 'take away what they love' system. I find it vindictive, personally. It sounds spoiled, but it's how I see it. Taking something from someone has nothing to do with teaching them--it's a form of discipline that doesn't teach anything. And both systems, for the love of ****, need all the patience and love in the world to back them up. You can't spank without love.


Am I the only one who thinks that sounds perverted?

Skate, I'm sure we could all use more teachers like you, especially for young kids who have shitty parents >_<

(I'm replying as I go, hence this jump: )

Okay, getting a little mushy for my taste >_<

Angie, I'm glad there's you. There'll be at least one child that's not ****ed up and abused, so good on you and good luck.

You give yourself way too much credit for a 17 year old. I didn't miss the point. I got it completely and clearly.

Are you so naive as to think that...

1) I was never your age or that I somehow forgot what it was like to be 17?

2) Never been around other kids your age as an adult myself?

3) That I cannot read and interpret your words for what they are?

I have a big news flash for you...You are not as mysterious and dark and foreboding as you would like to appear.

What you do have is "adolescence" going on rather wildly within your body. It's mostly a chemical and activity thing. You don't even realize this do you?

Are you physically active? Probably not.

Did you ever notice movies of animals that are in their "teenage" growth period? Those animals are VERY active. Always moving. There's a reason for this. Movement, and exercise, helps your body adjust and regulate itself. It also produces a natural release of endorphins to counteract the emotional effects of juvenile hormone imbalances (highs and lows) which are a normal occurrence during this period of physiological stabilization during puberty.

I recognize you for I have seen it in many other kids your age who I have worked with and all of you have the same characteristic. You spend the majority of your time sitting, usually in your room, and get little if any physical activity. Is this frighteningly familiar SD? You never give your body a chance to cleanse itself and to rapidly increase your blood flow. Hell, when was the last time you sweat from physical activity? If your body doesn't sweat at least once per day, then you are going to feel like you do all of the time.

Your mental state and your apathy about life is a chemical imbalance but it doesn't require medication, but rather, good diet, good rest at night and physical activity during the day. You should try it for 1 month, and if you don't feel much better, I'll eat a bug! LOL.

Claiming that you feel like this because your

 

[builder]

Skategreen said:
(Kids are people. Pure and simple. ONLY only that. They are actually really COOL people without a lot of crap to wade through and their love and respect are sooooooooo easily won. Oh my, they're the easiest people to get along with. )

This is the one thing that many "adults" fail to see. Childhood seems like an eternity when you are a child, but those years are soon gone.

Adults who mistreat their kids, or other people's kids, do find out how soon kids become adults. Often regretting their earlier actions.

I have five sisters, and I'm the second youngest. My neices and nephews grew up with me as "Uncle", even though I was not much older than the eldest of them.

Having copped flak and bullying off my older cousins and younger Uncles, I knew what it was like to be "lorded" over. I (subconciously) did the opposite.

Sure we had killer pillow-fights, and messy watermelon fights, and those water-balloon "wars" are a part of our history, but now that we are all adults, the respect is mutual. We look forward to seeing eachother.

So yes, I agree, Skategreen , kids are adults in the making. As an older person in the prescence of kids, it is our responsibility to treat them with the same respect afforded to adults. That is, if you want to be respected in kind.

In my three years of formal teaching of indig kids in Australia's Northern Territory, I experienced the highest attendance rates and the happiest students. Why? Because we learned together.

Postscript: I was in the bottlo the other day, and the young bloke serving reminded me of a time when I took him and a bunch of his mates up the beach for a surf, about eleven years ago. After some prompting, I recalled the day. This young bloke recalled the conversation, the car I drove, the state of the tide, etc. He said he'll never forget that day. I liked that.

 

[captainfrenchfry]

they do in some cases but they tend to become more lenient towards you when it comes time for you to get the hell outta their house

 

[Vaness]

"Having a child is taking a piece of your soul, and letting it go walk around outside of your body."
I loved that CES!!!

 

[angie]

Thanks, everyone for the compliments. They really do mean alot to me. I have my days where I just sit and ask myself "Can I really do this?" Your reassurance does help, there's only so far confidence can go in such an important task as raising a child. I do look forward to the expirience.
CES, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with SD. I had my teenage angst, as we all do, but I walked EVERYWHERE. To and from school, to my friends' houses, to the library....everywhere I went was generally 2 or 3 miles, but it was fun, and God does it help. Good for thinking time and clearing your head. Not the same as thinking time when you are cooped up in your bedroom in front of a screen TV or PC . SD, I would love to hear your activity level, and if it IS in fact low as many suspect, I suggest you try an "expiriment" as CES suggested. I would be very interested to see the effects it has. I can almost guarantee they would be nothing but positive!

 

[angie]

"Having a child is taking a piece of your soul, and letting it go walk around outside of your body."
I loved that CES!!!

That really is a beautiful way of putting it. The best I have heard yet. CES, I think I might have to steal that phrase from you

 

[Silver_dragon87]

As always, I truly enjoy the way you and so many others think you can pull information about me out of your ass. I'm afraid all you've managed to come up with is more ****--which is probably a good thing; it's all that's supposed to come out of there after all. I never implied that you had never been a teen; that would be retarded. Just because you missed my point doesn't mean you don't understand English--you're just too busy trying to put me into a category that you don't have time to spare on what I'm actually saying. I never once said or even implied that I think myself mysterious or even brooding. I speak openly about myself, I am happy to answer any questions people have. I do not look at my own state with any drama, only simple facts.

Speaking of facts, I happen to exercise for an hour every day, with another hour on top of that irregularly throughout the week, depending on when I get out to participate in my sport. I follow an exercise program at home that provides me with both a cardio workout and strength training. As I've said before and, as also mentioned, will be happy to discuss if anyone actually opens their ears (which I don't expect anyone to; I wouldn't want to talk to a stranger I didn't respect about their feelings), my reasons for my apathy are entirely external. My "death wish" one might say is due to what I think and see, not how I feel. Well, how I feel about what I observe. And I confider myself one of an enlightened few and go as far as to say that anyone who DOES have an actual desire to live is the one who is messed up. Again, my own reasoning and opinion.

And as I said before, which proves you haven't been listening and understanding as well as you'd like, the removal of things I enjoy as a punishment for something unrelated is, disregarding the fact that it is a childish and lazy method of parenting and completely unfair (while not as extreme as to be literal, on some level I believe in 'an eye for an eye' in that the punishment should be appropriate to the crime), only a material trigger that puts me in a state in which I remember the actual reasons for not wishing to exist on this plane. You can argue all you like, but I'm the only one in my own mind. I know what goes on in there, I am the only one who knows the truth.

So, I honour your post my taking out one of my favourite expressions once more.

Swing. And miss.