Big Government

[phreakwars]

Because were talking about peoples jobs here.. or does that fact elude you? USPS is one of those hybrid companies, yes controlled by government, but NOT tax payer funded. And like I said, it hasn't taken subsidies since Reagan.. I mean, you can go ahead and post all the pretty pictures you want about how in the tank the PO is, but that's besides the point... they are STILL not subsidized.

Hugo mentioned getting rid of them... for what reason? Is he (and you) saying "WELL THEY MIGHT NEED A BAIL OUT... ELIMINATE THEM"?

How about all the other .gov agency's that were mentioned.. HUD, Dept. of Education, Dept of Agriculture?

Why are these so wasteful that they need to put literally millions of people in the unemployment line?

Are these programs "big government" too?

Like I said, I just want to get an idea of what "BIG GOVERNMENT" really is.

Perhaps, by someone else's reasoning, we have no need for county investigators either. Another job that could be eliminated and send some people to the unemployment line... why can't the police/deputy's do their own detective work?

Evidently Colorado Springs thought it was a great idea and eliminated their's to save money. What makes THAT job so important?

It's way too easy to say... yeah, lets get rid of this and that and these guys... but like I said... your talking about jobs just as much as your talking about waste.

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[ImWithStupid]

Because were talking about peoples jobs here.. or does that fact elude you? USPS is one of those hybrid companies, yes controlled by government, but NOT tax payer funded. And like I said, it hasn't taken subsidies since Reagan.. I mean, you can go ahead and post all the pretty pictures you want about how in the tank the PO is, but that's besides the point... they are STILL not subsidized.

You really do just read what you want to read. The chart showed that there were billions of dollars of deficits, payed by the taxpayer, in 2007 and 2008 and projected same substantially more in 2009.

Hugo mentioned getting rid of them... for what reason? Is he (and you) saying "WELL THEY MIGHT NEED A BAIL OUT... ELIMINATE THEM"?
How about all the other .gov agency's that were mentioned.. HUD, Dept. of Education, Dept of Agriculture?

Why are these so wasteful that they need to put literally millions of people in the unemployment line?

Are these programs "big government" too?

My suggestions wouldn't put every employee on the unemployment line. Many would lose their jobs.

Like I said, I just want to get an idea of what "BIG GOVERNMENT" really is.
Perhaps, by someone else's reasoning, we have no need for county investigators either. Another job that could be eliminated and send some people to the unemployment line... why can't the police/deputy's do their own detective work?

Evidently Colorado Springs thought it was a great idea and eliminated their's to save money. What makes THAT job so important?

It's way too easy to say... yeah, lets get rid of this and that and these guys... but like I said... your talking about jobs just as much as your talking about waste.

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Not sure what you're getting at. First off we were talking about federal agencies.

Secondly, if you are trying to make some kind of jab at my job, I'm just a Deputy assigned to Investigations. Never got any kind of pay raise or promotion for my job. I carry out all the duties of a uniformed officer except do traffic control. If you're trying to suggest that I'd be hurt by only having to deal with day to day calls and traffic and not rapes, burglaries, deaths, frauds, embezzlement, major drug enforcement, CPS, robberies, etc... for the same pay as the average Deputy, like I get now... Lead the charge. Bring it on.

I have a sense of duty to my community that drives me to do more serious and in depth cases than the average Deputy. Something I'm sure you wouldn't understand.

Let's see, responsible for investigating rapes, or mailbox murders for the same pay. You decide.

 

[phreakwars]

You really do just read what you want to read. The chart showed that there were billions of dollars of deficits, payed by the taxpayer, in 2007 and 2008 and projected same substantially more in 2009.

The chart is wrong, plain and simple.. If it was "PAYED BY THE TAXPAYER" it would have been paid by rate increase, not by a tax increase.

My suggestions wouldn't put every employee on the unemployment line. Many would lose their jobs.

And destroy our economy more.

Not sure what you're getting at. First off we were talking about federal agencies.

No, were talking about Government

Secondly, if you are trying to make some kind of jab at my job, I'm just a Deputy assigned to Investigations. Never got any kind of pay raise or promotion for my job. I carry out all the duties of a uniformed officer except do traffic control. If you're trying to suggest that I'd be hurt by only having to deal with day to day calls and traffic and not rapes, burglaries, deaths, frauds, embezzlement, major drug enforcement, CPS, robberies, etc... for the same pay as the average Deputy, like I get now... Lead the charge. Bring it on.

My point was, why is it you need to be assigned that duty? Why can't other deputy's pull equal weight?

I have a sense of duty to my community that drives me to do more serious and in depth cases than the average Deputy. Something I'm sure you wouldn't understand.
Let's see, responsible for investigating rapes, or mailbox murders for the same pay. You decide.

Isn't that kind of an insult to your co-workers who might feel the same about the effort they put into their jobs?
No, I'm not knocking you or your job personally, I'm just saying A: you are paid by tax payers because you are government, so why can't you be subject to the same scrutiny of "BIG GOVERNMENT" and B: EVERYBODY likes to feel they are doing there job with a little more commitment and drive then their co-workers... doesn't really matter what your career is. I.E. everybody thinks their special. Hey, it's human nature....but.... how is it, you can look at someone else's line of work, which might perhaps also be something paid for by tax payers, and say "WELL, THEY NEED TO GO, NOT REALLY NEEDED"

That's all I'm saying.

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[ImWithStupid]

The chart is wrong, plain and simple.. If it was "PAYED BY THE TAXPAYER" it would have been paid by rate increase, not by a tax increase.

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False claim on the government thing by the way. The majority of Tea Party Protests are against the federal government overreach, and are in support of the 10th Amendment. The opposition to state/local government may be by the same people, but under a different guise.

No. The USPS is running deficits, that it is getting money to cover, by getting loans from the Treasury, which is taxpayer revenue. It's either tax revenue, or borrowed money that will have to be paid back by taxpayers.

 

[phreakwars]

False claim on the government thing by the way. The majority of Tea Party Protests are against the federal government overreach, and are in support of the 10th Amendment. The opposition to state/local government may be by the same people, but under a different guise.

Ahh OK, so it's overreach and NOT big government.. NOW maybe we are getting somewhere.
So why then, are people not protesting the places that are asking for the over reach? Protesting Wall-street.

What was one of the complaints... the bailouts? Wow, all the companies, even GM have payed the money back.

Makes me wonder what the Teabaggers are gonna have for fuel... surely you can't complain about government takeover and socialism and big government and bailouts and tax payer money if the money has been returned (with interest).

Not that I wanna stick onto just the P.O. but would a P.O. bailout be so bad either?Even if they paid it back like the other bailed out companies did?

So again... what is all this "big government" ***** about? You can't fairly claim Obama has put us 13 trillion in debt that our grandchildren will have to pay back without acknowledging that 11 trillion of that was on the books before he was even elected.

You also can't claim he has expanded government while denying Bush expanded it more.

No I'm not playing a Republicans .vs Democrats game here, but I do need to ask.... why now?

Where were all the freedom loving patriots at when the economy was starting to tank a couple years ago? So Obama added 2 trillion more to an already 11 trillion dollar prob.. why all the ******** now? Why blame him for the huge debt? Why say he is overreaching when he hasn't?

I mean if "BIG GOVERNMENT" means more people inspecting our food to make sure it is safe, more policemen to patrol our streets, more mailmen to bring us our junk mail and bills, more investigators to help us solve crimes, more firemen to save our homes, and etc...etc... I have no problem with that.

You get what you pay for, but on the flip side, you get what you don't pay for.

So when I hear about "big government" that my tax dollars are being sucked from me to pay for. I have to wonder what I'm getting for that money.

Personally, the thought of big government doesn't bother me as much as the thought of wasteful government.

We hear about all the waste and pet projects all the time... what I wonder though.. is why the people who are earmarking the waste are never protested against.

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[ImWithStupid]

Ahh OK, so it's overreach and NOT big government.. NOW maybe we are getting somewhere.

So why then, are people not protesting the places that are asking for the over reach? Protesting Wall-street.

What was one of the complaints... the bailouts? Wow, all the companies, even GM have payed the money back.

Makes me wonder what the Teabaggers are gonna have for fuel... surely you can't complain about government takeover and socialism and big government and bailouts and tax payer money if the money has been returned (with interest).

Not that I wanna stick onto just the P.O. but would a P.O. bailout be so bad either?Even if they paid it back like the other bailed out companies did?

So again... what is all this "big government" ***** about? You can't fairly claim Obama has put us 13 trillion in debt that our grandchildren will have to pay back without acknowledging that 11 trillion of that was on the books before he was even elected.

You also can't claim he has expanded government while denying Bush expanded it more.

No I'm not playing a Republicans .vs Democrats game here, but I do need to ask.... why now?

Where were all the freedom loving patriots at when the economy was starting to tank a couple years ago? So Obama added 2 trillion more to an already 11 trillion dollar prob.. why all the ******** now? Why blame him for the huge debt? Why say he is overreaching when he hasn't?

I mean if "BIG GOVERNMENT" means more people inspecting our food to make sure it is safe, more policemen to patrol our streets, more mailmen to bring us our junk mail and bills, more investigators to help us solve crimes, more firemen to save our homes, and etc...etc... I have no problem with that.

You get what you pay for, but on the flip side, you get what you don't pay for.

So when I hear about "big government" that my tax dollars are being sucked from me to pay for. I have to wonder what I'm getting for that money.

Personally, the thought of big government doesn't bother me as much as the thought of wasteful government.

We hear about all the waste and pet projects all the time... what I wonder though.. is why the people who are earmarking the waste are never protested against.

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Why do you continue to only see what you want to. I said the P.O. is a Constitutional obligation.

The problem with bailouts is the same thing that happened in the depression. The government picks the winners and losers, harms advancement and as you liberals ought to respect, defies survival of the fittest. If the company is worth saving, it would be by another company. Just like JP Morgan Chase saved WaMu and Bear Stearns.

False claim on the national debt. It went from 5.7 to 9.8 Trillion after 8 years of Bush. Scheduled dept in 2010 is 14 Trillion. As much of an increase in two years under Obama as 8 years under Bush.

Expansion of government. Bush did too much. (I'd argue that he expanded it more) I said that then, Ill say it now. Obama has kept all the power gained under Bush and has gone into a sprint to aquire more. Where are all you guys on this? I was against it then, and I'm against the expansion now. How bout you lefties? You all don't care as long as your guy is in power.

Let me put it in perspective for you. Under Republicans the big cry was, "keep gov out of our bedroom", under the Dems, it's, "keep gov out of my car, my thermostat, my lunch box, my drink cup, my water usage, and every other room of my house, along with my bedroom."

 

[phreakwars]

So again... where were all the protesters then.. why now?

Like you said... YOU were against them too.. so why didn't YOU ***** and complain too? I've never seen any of the complaining from YOU back then.

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[timesjoke]

Because were talking about peoples jobs here.. or does that fact elude you? USPS is one of those hybrid companies, yes controlled by government, but NOT tax payer funded. And like I said, it hasn't taken subsidies since Reagan.. I mean, you can go ahead and post all the pretty pictures you want about how in the tank the PO is, but that's besides the point... they are STILL not subsidized.

Hugo mentioned getting rid of them... for what reason? Is he (and you) saying "WELL THEY MIGHT NEED A BAIL OUT... ELIMINATE THEM"?

How about all the other .gov agency's that were mentioned.. HUD, Dept. of Education, Dept of Agriculture?

Why are these so wasteful that they need to put literally millions of people in the unemployment line?

Are these programs "big government" too?

Like I said, I just want to get an idea of what "BIG GOVERNMENT" really is.

Perhaps, by someone else's reasoning, we have no need for county investigators either. Another job that could be eliminated and send some people to the unemployment line... why can't the police/deputy's do their own detective work?

Evidently Colorado Springs thought it was a great idea and eliminated their's to save money. What makes THAT job so important?

It's way too easy to say... yeah, lets get rid of this and that and these guys... but like I said... your talking about jobs just as much as your talking about waste.

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You know, I have to ask a question, do liberals really believe it is the Government's responsibility to provide jobs even if the work is not needed?

I don't care if some dead weight is tossed into the unemployment line, the point is do we "NEED" that agency or that employee? If the answer to that question is no, then eliminate it. I work hard to earn the tax money that is being wasted on Government employees we do not need. Many agencies can be combined and keep the actual workers but drop the massive buracracy and overhead maintaining seperate offices and seperate bosses, combining these agencies can save us billions of dollars.

Oh, I agree that the fist and most important agency to cut should be the IRS, go to the 'Fair Tax' and dump all of those useless IRS idiots out on the street.

By the way, "why now"?

Because only now has an administration taken power and completely ignored the will of the people on this big of a scale, right after Obama promised that "jobs" will be the number 1 priority, he turned away from "jobs" and went back to his healthcare mess nobody wanted. Today the only priority Obama has for jobs is more Government jobs as he is helping to kill more private sector jobs. The average every day person in America is ****** off because they are getting less money, while the Government is taking more money, Bush and company did increase spending and grew Government, this is true, but he did it while we were still relatively strong, and we were only at the start of the housing and loan meltdown caused by the fair housing laws Clinton signed.

Obama on the other hand is spending more money, in less time than Bush and is doing it in a time when the Nation is badly bleeding, hurt and broke while they watch the Washington elites spend, spend, spend without a care in the world. That is "why now".