Facism anyone?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

...CES has made sweeping assumptions that there is no real threat from terrorism, even though the terrorists have stated frankly and often that the core of their ideology is the destruction of primarily the USA and secondarily the western way of life...

Although this is not directed at NazzNegg directly, it is a general comment for your consideration.

Let me restate the current "Terrorist" situation in more realistic terms.

Let's say that the "Terrorists" could all act uniformly as one organization, even though they cannot and do not. Hell, we can't even identify who is and who is not a terrorist by our definition.

Next, lets say that France is going to overthrow the United States. They have guns a plenty, planes, bombs, nuclear bombs, a Navy, a Air Force, troops, all the trappings of a Modern Nation. We're really worried right? Right...

Not one person in America could be convinced that we were going to be conquered by France. Not going to happen.

However, many folks believe and even regurgitate the complete fabrication that somehow the "Terrorists" are going to destroy America.

Right. Wake up! Smell the Coffee!

**** people. The twin towers on 9/11 was the biggest national tragedy since the Civil War, and in terms of really affecting American and her longevity, it didn't even make a hiccup in the grand scheme of things.

As to Iraq being a threat. For 10 years, Saddam, with weapons we gave him, could not even successfully invade and conquer Iran. 10 years of war ending in a stalemate, and he was going to somehow destroy America, which is on the other side of the world?

Can't you see how ridiculous this whole propaganda is?

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes I do, I agree with you in principle, but If we do nothing, if we sit back and underestimate the aggressors and overestimate ourselves, even if 50 years go by with nothing major happening, are we not being foolish thinking we are untouchable?

Come on now. You should know me better than that.

I never said to ignore it or become complacent. Quite the contrary. I am the biggest supporter of a strong military machine.

One does not build nuclear submarines and Stealth bombers overnight let alone train a combat ready fighting force in 6 weeks.

I believe that the drastic closing of military bases in the United States is a huge mistake.

I don't need a few of the bases in Spain, Germany, Philippines etc, but I sure did need El Toro, NTS San Diego, Miramar NAS and they are all gone or radically changed now and cannot be replaced on a moments notice. Big mistake.

However, just because I am for a strong military, I don't buy into the "Be Afraid" tactics of the current administration and said follower of that flawed reasoning.

Like I said, I worry more about being struck by lightning than a Terrorist.

 

[count zero]

So the real question for all of you is, do you enjoy your way of life? Do you see any larger value in it? Should it continue to exist? Should your children have the same opportunities you have benefited from? You may not agree with your government, you may not agree with its current leaders but as long as there is a real external threat ranging from terrorists to immigration invasions and cultural warfare, it would be a safe bet to deal with the external threats first and then turn inwards and deal with the traitors of our cultural ideals such as privacy and what our culture calls basic human freedoms.

Well the problem with this idealogy is that the external threats are not being dealt with. Our borders are still wide open, and foreign people with questionable allegiances are still being given visas.
It is obvious to me that the whole thing is a ruse. If we were really concerned about terrorists in this country, we would close the borders and throw out anyone with an Islamic background. We would say "Sorry world, but until we feel safe we have to be the un-PC nation." These two things combined would stop terrorism in this country dead in its tracks. Yet instead we invade a soverign nation, most likely creating more terrorists, and definately creating more of an angry sentiment toward us the world over.
The Bush camp has no intention of winning the "war on terror" or terr, whichever it is, just as his father had no intention of winning the war on drugs. It is in their best interests, monitarily, and in terms of power control, to keep us afraid. Who is making the money when fear causes a rise in gas prices?
Again, read the Patriot Act II, otherwise known as the The Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003

http://www.publicintegrity.org/dtaweb/downloads/Story_01_020703_Doc_1.pdf

If that isn't Orwellian, then even Orwell didn't know anything about dystopia.

 

[Rockhard]

Another thing to remember Friend dubya wants his patriot acts one and two permanant. The spying on american citizens, not terrorists leaves him wide open for impeachment. It is against the law for him to do this or authorize said invasion of privacy without a warrant. For years we were under the threat of the (Red Menace) supposedly wiped out by Ronald Reagan. Most folks know that it died of natural causes. Now we have to find another thing for the masses to fear so they can be kept in line. So we have Terrorist lurking under every bush. The attack on the wtt didn"t strike fear in my heart and mind IT PISSED ME OFF I wanted to find a raghead in the crosshairs and bloody his towel. These terrorists are stupid thank whatever diety you pray to, that they are. If you want to disrupt things in the USA blow all the bridges on the mississippi. There aren't very many of them. Next cut the main telephone cables that connect the Three coasts. I won't panic but I will stay armed and ready.

 

[count zero]

No no no. Patriot Act II, as in 2, as in you can be put in jail
for life without trial for "Acts of Terrorism" which are loosely
defined as "acts which endanger life". Just read it, and be afraid.

Mostly I agree with what you are saying, but I think that securing the
border, no matter what cost, would do a whole hell of a lot more for
our "security" and the war on terror than shipping our troops off to
random middle eastern nation. Imagine the funds spent in reverse.

 

[snafu]

Come on! A new world order by George Bush!
CES your right we don’t know who the terrorist are. That’s what the Patriot Act is about. Striking the fear of the people? What possible gain would this be for? The Patriot Act is to determine who is the terrorist. We can’t wait for the next attack. That would get those terrorist along with a lot of dead people. I want to know who they are before they attack. The world is getting smaller and what happens to someone in other parts of the world effects us. I want my kids to grow up in a free and stable environment. We didn’t win the war on drugs and we probably won’t win the war on terrorism. But without tools to combat it we will LOSE the war!
Fascism? "What you speak your mind to the ruler of the new order? Bow so that we can cut your tongue out"! Yeah that's better.

 

[count zero]

Come on! A new world order by George Bush!
CES your right we don

 

[builder]

You don't see Bush chasing them.

You don't see him at all. He's not game to enter the public domain, and hand-picks those who attend his rare "public" appearances, and gets them to sign a ****ing waiver saying they won't upset his apple cart.

What sort of a ****ing prez is that?

Oh, and now that he's patched things up with the bin Laden team, at least Halliburton has a competitor in the reconstruction contracts.

 

[count zero]

OK since no one wants to read the "Patriot Act II" here is a distillation
from the ACLU
Among its most severe problems, the bill

Diminishes personal privacy by removing checks on government power, specifically by

Making it easier for the government to initiate surveillance and wiretapping of U.S. citizens under the authority of the shadowy, top-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. (Sections 101, 102 and 107)
Permitting the government, under certain circumstances, to bypass the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court altogether and conduct warrantless wiretaps and searches. (Sections 103 and 104)
Sheltering federal agents engaged in illegal surveillance without a court order from criminal prosecution if they are following orders of high Executive Branch officials. (Section 106)
Creating a new category of "domestic security surveillance" that permits electronic eavesdropping of entirely domestic activity under looser standards than are provided for ordinary criminal surveillance under Title III. (Section 122)
Using an overbroad definition of terrorism that could cover some protest tactics such as those used by Operation Rescue or protesters at Vieques Island, Puerto Rico as a new predicate for criminal wiretapping and other electronic surveillance. (Sections 120 and 121)
Providing for general surveillance orders covering multiple functions of high tech devices, and by further expanding pen register and trap and trace authority for intelligence surveillance of United States citizens and lawful permanent residents. (Sections 107 and 124)
Creating a new, separate crime of using encryption technology that could add five years to any sentence for crimes committed with a computer. (Section 404)
Expanding nationwide search warrants so they do not have to meet even the broad definition of terrorism in the USA PATRIOT Act. (Section 125)
Giving the government secret access to credit reports without consent and without judicial process. (Section 126)
Enhancing the government's ability to obtain sensitive information without prior judicial approval by creating administrative subpoenas and providing new penalties for failure to comply with written demands for records. (Sections 128 and 129)
Allowing for the sampling and cataloguing of innocent Americans' genetic information without court order and without consent. (Sections 301-306)
Permitting, without any connection to anti-terrorism efforts, sensitive personal information about U.S. citizens to be shared with local and state law enforcement. (Section 311)
Terminating court-approved limits on police spying, which were initially put in place to prevent McCarthy-style law enforcement persecution based on political or religious affiliation. (Section 312)
Permitting searches, wiretaps and surveillance of United States citizens on behalf of foreign governments - including dictatorships and human rights abusers - in the absence of Senate-approved treaties. (Sections 321-22)

Diminishes public accountability by increasing government secrecy; specifically, by

Authorizing secret arrests in immigration and other cases, such as material witness warrants, where the detained person is not criminally charged. (Section 201)
Threatening public health by severely restricting access to crucial information about environmental health risks posed by facilities that use dangerous chemicals. (Section 202)
Harming fair trial rights for American citizens and other defendants by limiting defense attorneys from challenging the use of secret evidence in criminal cases. (Section 204)
Gagging grand jury witnesses in terrorism cases to bar them from discussing their testimony with the media or the general public, thus preventing them from defending themselves against rumor-mongering and denying the public information it has a right to receive under the First Amendment. (Section 206)

Diminishes corporate accountability under the pretext of fighting terrorism; specifically, by

Granting immunity to businesses that provide information to the government in terrorism investigations, even if their actions are taken with disregard for their customers' privacy or other rights and show reckless disregard for the truth. Such immunity could provide an incentive for neighbor to spy on neighbor and pose problems similar to those inherent in Attorney General Ashcroft's "Operation TIPS." (Section 313)

Undermines fundamental constitutional rights of Americans under overbroad definitions of "terrorism" and "terrorist organization" or under a terrorism pretext; specifically by

Stripping even native-born Americans of all of the rights of United States citizenship if they provide support to unpopular organizations labeled as terrorist by our government, even if they support only the lawful activities of such organizations, allowing them to be indefinitely imprisoned in their own country as undocumented aliens. (Section 501)
Creating 15 new death penalties, including a new death penalty for "terrorism" under a definition which could cover acts of protest such as those used by Operation Rescue or protesters at Vieques Island, Puerto Rico, if death results. (Section 411)
Further criminalizing association - without any intent to commit specific terrorism crimes - by broadening the crime of providing material support to terrorism, even if support is not given to any organization listed as a terrorist organization by the government. (Section 402)
Permitting arrests and extraditions of Americans to any foreign country - including those whose governments do not respect the rule of law or human rights - in the absence of a Senate-approved treaty and without allowing an American judge to consider the extraditing country's legal system or human rights record. (Section 322)

Unfairly targets immigrants under the pretext of fighting terrorism; specifically by

Undercutting trust between police departments and immigrant communities by opening sensitive visa files to local police for the enforcement of complex immigration laws. (Section 311)
Targeting undocumented workers with extended jail terms for common immigration offenses. (Section 502)
Providing for summary deportations without evidence of crime, criminal intent or terrorism, even of lawful permanent residents, whom the Attorney General says are a threat to national security. (Section 503)
Completely abolishing fair hearings for lawful permanent residents convicted of even minor criminal offenses through a retroactive "expedited removal" procedure, and preventing any court from questioning the government's unlawful actions by explicitly exempting these cases from habeas corpus review. Congress has not exempted any person from habeas corpus -- a protection guaranteed by the Constitution -- since the Civil War. (Section 504)
Allowing the Attorney General to deport an immigrant to any country in the world, even if there is no effective government in such a country. (Section 506)

Given the bipartisan controversy that has arisen in the past from DOJ's attempts to weaken basic checks and balances that protect personal privacy and liberty, the DOJ's reluctance to share the draft legislation is perhaps understandable. The DOJ's highly one-sided section-by-section analysis reveals the Administration's strategy is to minimize far-reaching changes in basic powers, as it did in seeking passage of the USA PATRIOT Act, by characterizing them as minor tinkering with statutory language designed to bring government surveillance authorities, detention and deportation powers, and criminal penalties "up to date."

This ACLU section-by-section analysis of the text of the legislation, however, reveals that the DOJ's modest descriptions of the powers it is seeking, and the actual scope of the authorities it seeks, are miles apart. The USA PATRIOT Act undercut many of the traditional checks and balances on government power. The new draft legislation threatens to fundamentally alter the constitutional protections that allow us as Americans to be both safe and free. If adopted, the bill would diminish personal privacy by removing important checks on government surveillance authority, reduce the accountability of government to the public by increasing government secrecy, further undermine fundamental constitutional rights of Americans under an already overbroad definition of "terrorism," and seriously erode the right of all persons to due process of law.



WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS ABOUT THIS ATROCITY.
Not as if it will make a difference.

 

[hugo]

To say Hitler was not a catholic is perhaps one of the most misguilded pieces of crap you have said so far, even though Hilter turned his back on christianity in his later years, he was raised as a catholic, his views on anti-Semitism are based in catholic doctrine and were the basis for his views on facism. So I suggest you read up on your history, even though Hitler became what he called a Pagan, the root of his evil was his youth and his up bringing in the church. Even when the nazis took control of rome and the vatican, he had no clear plans to remove the pope from power, why? Because deep in his heart of hearts he was still a catholic.
Also where the **** do you get off calling me a godless commie, you narrow minded, in breeding, mother ****ing corn hick.

Actually, alen conspiracist commie boy, we all know Hitler was indoctrinated into evil by your space aliens who figured a world war would slow the earthlings progress.

 

[quarky]

Actually, alen conspiracist commie boy, we all know Hitler was indoctrinated into evil by your space aliens who figured a world war would slow the earthlings progress.

Is the nice where you live, with your head shoved up your mothers butt

 

[quarky]

Actually, alen conspiracist commie boy, we all know Hitler was indoctrinated into evil by your space aliens who figured a world war would slow the earthlings progress.

I also think, you think I'm a commi for quoting George Orwell's 1984, which proves you really have your head up your mothers arse, 1984 is pro democracy sweet cheeks, not pro commi.

Alen? don't you mean Alien?
Hitler was indoctrinated into evil the RELGION! Look it up, read some history that is not poluted by your ****ing right wing facist bible bashing religion, god boy

 

[count zero]

Actually, alen conspiracist commie boy, we all know Hitler was indoctrinated into evil by your space aliens who figured a world war would slow the earthlings progress.

Oh don't be stupid.
We are talking about conpiracies between evil ****ing men, who care nothing about the sanctity of life, only about their own power and money.
Ignorance is bliss huh?
Ever hear of the Bohemian Grove?
Why are the leaders of our nation committing a mock human sacrifice to an Owl idol in the middle of the woods?
Ask yourself that, if there is no conspiracy, and Bush is a man of god,
why was he there? What god does he really worship?

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Why are the leaders of our nation committing a mock human sacrifice to an Owl idol in the middle of the woods?

Enquiring minds want to know!

 

[Tex]

Fascism seems to be seeping into every facet of our lives.

The other morning I was horrified to discover that a swastika can be made by disassembling the matrix of a Bird Eye Potato Waffle.

Alphabetti spaghetti is even ****in' worse. I also found that you can make the phrase 'Hitler is Nice' if you use the 'Z' on it's side for an 'N'.

I shiver to think which fine food product will fall under the auspices of the jackbooted corporate meal machine next.

 

[fullauto]

OK since no one wants to read the "Patriot Act II" here is a distillation
from the ACLU
Among its most severe problems, the bill

Diminishes personal privacy by removing checks on government power, specifically by...........
.........WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS ABOUT THIS ATROCITY.
Not as if it will make a difference.

Count Zero... Don't you think you could have found a better primary source for such information? I mean, c'mon... The ****ing ACLU?!

Of course anything they have to say about the patriot act is going to leave you feeling like you just got ass ****ed by a 350 lb strong forward, and it might be true... But would you hate the Jews based on something Hitler said? Of course not... Because you can't get reliable info on anyone or anything by asking their enemies or it's opposite...

The ACLU is the best funded communist organization in the land... Anything they say about the patriot act, no matter how true MUST be viewed with suspicion... Not that The bill isn't ****ed, but you should have picked a better source... Posting **** like this will only make the smart ones think you're not...

Why not go through and select the questionable passages from the bill, and post them verbatim... Then describe why that particular part is ****ed... At least that way, your sources cannot be questioned, and likewise, will give more credit to your theory... Hell, you might even sway a few opinions!

 

[Tex]

Oh don't be stupid...Why are the leaders of our nation committing a mock human sacrifice to an Owl idol in the middle of the woods?

I can answer that.

For a man in his position, the woods would be an obvious choice for a mock human sacrifice for the simple reason of privacy. He would look pretty foolish performing ancient arcane rituals at Wal-Mart wouldn't he?

I certainly wouldn't be too concerned. Many famous world leaders have had eccentric religious beliefs but have still made a significant impact on world affairs.

Hitler and Papa Doc Duvallier spring immediately to mind.

I'm sure that it was all a bit of harmless horseplay with a few old friends from his college fraternity, Skull and Bones. Next thing, you'll be telling me they're involved in some kind of illuminati-type conspiracy, ha ha.

 

[count zero]

I can answer that.

For a man in his position, the woods would be an obvious choice for a mock human sacrifice for the simple reason of privacy. He would look pretty foolish performing ancient arcane rituals at Wal-Mart wouldn't he?

I certainly wouldn't be too concerned. Many famous world leaders have had eccentric religious beliefs but have still made a significant impact on world affairs.

Hitler and Papa Doc Duvallier spring immediately to mind.

I'm sure that it was all a bit of harmless horseplay with a few old friends from his college fraternity, Skull and Bones. Next thing, you'll be telling me they're involved in some kind of illuminati-type conspiracy, ha ha.

Yes I will, ha ha. Feel free to do some research into what illuminati is,
how it is the birth of Freemasonry, what Freemasonry is, and how their
symbols are used in Skull and Bones. In other words connect the dots,
and then laugh.

 

[count zero]

Count Zero... Don't you think you could have found a better primary source for such information? I mean, c'mon... The ****ing ACLU?!

Of course anything they have to say about the patriot act is going to leave you feeling like you just got ass ****ed by a 350 lb strong forward, and it might be true... But would you hate the Jews based on something Hitler said? Of course not... Because you can't get reliable info on anyone or anything by asking their enemies or it's opposite...

The ACLU is the best funded communist organization in the land... Anything they say about the patriot act, no matter how true MUST be viewed with suspicion... Not that The bill isn't ****ed, but you should have picked a better source... Posting **** like this will only make the smart ones think you're not...

Why not go through and select the questionable passages from the bill, and post them verbatim... Then describe why that particular part is ****ed... At least that way, your sources cannot be questioned, and likewise, will give more credit to your theory... Hell, you might even sway a few opinions!

Patriot Act II my friend. And I am just showing you the door, you have to
go through it.

 

[count zero]

I can answer that.

For a man in his position, the woods would be an obvious choice for a mock human sacrifice for the simple reason of privacy. He would look pretty foolish performing ancient arcane rituals at Wal-Mart wouldn't he?

I certainly wouldn't be too concerned. Many famous world leaders have had eccentric religious beliefs but have still made a significant impact on world affairs.

Hitler and Papa Doc Duvallier spring immediately to mind.

Geeze, Hitler and Papa Doc, no I'm not concerned about putting
Bush on that short list at all.
I guess all his rhetoric about Christian family values was just that,
rhetoric.
And I wonder who this "God" is that he talks to every day. In the
words of the late, great "Church Lady"
"Could it be... SATAN?!?"
heh