GUNS: The National Rifle Association Is More Than A Well-Funded Gun Lobby...

[Patriot Games]

<Nicklas@Click.com> wrote in message
news:ef6pr3hb1gv7foekkfchg43dc61gd0au9n@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:37:56 -0600, Jim Alder
> <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote:
>> Yeah, I figured someone would jump on that one. But then, by your
>>definition, any rifle is an assault rifle. And/or, since a rifle is a
>>weapon,
>>an assault rifle is an assault weapon. Just because the news media and the
>>gun
>>nuts (the antigunners, that is) blur the definitions for their own agenda
>>doesn't mean we have to nitpick it into the ground.
> By your definition, the "right to bear arms" was
> redefined to go beyond a flintlock and black powder
> weapon.
> That doesn't square with "Original intent"---does it
> alderloon?

The Supreme Court will tell you your opinion in a couple of months.

Until then shut the **** up.

 

[LoveSlinger]

America's KILLING-BY-GUN "problem" will never be solved, any more than
the Israeli-Palestinian problem or the U.S.-Iraq-Afghanistan-Pakistan-
Iran problem will ever be solved. Oh, we'll see more killing, but
never solutions. Never stoppages. Never endings.

 

[Patriot Games]

"Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4A99C29329Ejimaldersssnetcom@216.196.97.142...
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bc70dc$0$30719
> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>> An "assault weapon" in an automatic weapon.
> So's an MP5,

An MP5 fires full auto. I said an "assault weapon" was an automatic weapon.

Did you have a point?

>>>> Fred is a FOOL. Automatic rifles have been BANNED for decades.
>>> No, they aren't. They're just a little harder to buy than the regular
>>> stuff.
>> Feel free to CITE the procedures for a civilian buying an automatic
>> rifle.
> You need the signature of a local law enforcement head - a chief of
> police
> or a judge will do - and you pay a $200 fee.
> http://www.autoweapons.com/pagelinks/buyandsell.html
> What is a Class 3 License?
> A Class 3 Federal Firearms License is required for dealing, manufacturing,
> and
> importing firearms for the express purpose of revenue generation - not
> collecting. It is a felony to obtain a Class 3 License for the purpose of
> enhancing your collection.
> Do I need a license to buy a machine gun?
> No, you don't need a federal firearms license. If you are permitted by law
> to
> own a handgun and your state allows the transfer of machine guns, you can
> buy
> one (unless you are in a state that requires a C&R License for machine gun
> ownership.

You and your cite/site are wrong and misleading.

The "transfer of machine guns" is governed by the NFA (National Firearms
Act) and:

"Machineguns produced, imported, or registered after May 19, 1986, the
effective date of 18 U.S.C. 922(o), generally are unlawful except for use by
a government agency or for exportation."
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/gen_info.pdf

TITLE 18 - PART I - CHAPTER 44 Unlawful acts
(o)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person
to transfer or possess a machinegun.
(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to

 

[Jim Alder]

"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bdc4fd$0$30703
$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> "Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A4A99C29329Ejimaldersssnetcom@216.196.97.142...
>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bc70dc$0$30719
>> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>>> An "assault weapon" in an automatic weapon.
>> So's an MP5,
>
> An MP5 fires full auto. I said an "assault weapon" was an automatic weapon.
>
> Did you have a point?

I did until you edited it into obscurity. I said the MP5 was an assault
weapon to which you argued "An "assault weapon" in[SIC] an automatic weapon."
I assumed you meant "is"?

>>>>> Fred is a FOOL. Automatic rifles have been BANNED for decades.
>>>> No, they aren't. They're just a little harder to buy than the regular
>>>> stuff.
>>> Feel free to CITE the procedures for a civilian buying an automatic
>>> rifle.
>> You need the signature of a local law enforcement head - a chief of
>> police
>> or a judge will do - and you pay a $200 fee.
>> http://www.autoweapons.com/pagelinks/buyandsell.html
>> What is a Class 3 License?
>> A Class 3 Federal Firearms License is required for dealing, manufacturing,
>> and importing firearms for the express purpose of revenue generation - not
>> collecting. It is a felony to obtain a Class 3 License for the purpose of
>> enhancing your collection.
>> Do I need a license to buy a machine gun?
>> No, you don't need a federal firearms license. If you are permitted by law
>> to own a handgun and your state allows the transfer of machine guns, you
>> can buy one (unless you are in a state that requires a C&R License for
>> machine gun ownership.
>
> You and your cite/site are wrong and misleading.

No, it isn't. You just refuse to admit that you are wrong.

> The "transfer of machine guns" is governed by the NFA (National Firearms
> Act) and:
>
> "Machineguns produced, imported, or registered after May 19, 1986, the
> effective date of 18 U.S.C. 922(o), generally are unlawful except for use by
> a government agency or for exportation."
> http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/gen_info.pdf

You said they were banned.

ban: verb (used with object)
1. to prohibit, forbid, or bar;

And you said quite clearly that a private citizen could NOT buy one, and
challenged me to produce the method.

I know they aren't imported or manufactured anymore. That's not what you
said.

> TITLE 18 - PART I - CHAPTER 44 Unlawful acts
> (o)
> (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person
> to transfer or possess a machinegun.
> (2) This subsection does not apply with respect to

 

[Steve]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:15:40 -0600, Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com>
wrote:

>"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bdc4fd$0$30703
>$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>
>> "Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9A4A99C29329Ejimaldersssnetcom@216.196.97.142...
>>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bc70dc$0$30719
>>> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>>>> An "assault weapon" in an automatic weapon.
>>> So's an MP5,
>>
>> An MP5 fires full auto. I said an "assault weapon" was an automatic weapon.
>>
>> Did you have a point?
>
> I did until you edited it into obscurity. I said the MP5 was an assault
>weapon to which you argued "An "assault weapon" in[SIC] an automatic weapon."
>I assumed you meant "is"?
>
>>>>>> Fred is a FOOL. Automatic rifles have been BANNED for decades.
>>>>> No, they aren't. They're just a little harder to buy than the regular
>>>>> stuff.
>>>> Feel free to CITE the procedures for a civilian buying an automatic
>>>> rifle.
>>> You need the signature of a local law enforcement head - a chief of
>>> police
>>> or a judge will do - and you pay a $200 fee.
>>> http://www.autoweapons.com/pagelinks/buyandsell.html
>>> What is a Class 3 License?
>>> A Class 3 Federal Firearms License is required for dealing, manufacturing,
>>> and importing firearms for the express purpose of revenue generation - not
>>> collecting. It is a felony to obtain a Class 3 License for the purpose of
>>> enhancing your collection.
>>> Do I need a license to buy a machine gun?
>>> No, you don't need a federal firearms license. If you are permitted by law
>>> to own a handgun and your state allows the transfer of machine guns, you
>>> can buy one (unless you are in a state that requires a C&R License for
>>> machine gun ownership.
>>
>> You and your cite/site are wrong and misleading.
>
> No, it isn't. You just refuse to admit that you are wrong.
>
>> The "transfer of machine guns" is governed by the NFA (National Firearms
>> Act) and:
>>
>> "Machineguns produced, imported, or registered after May 19, 1986, the
>> effective date of 18 U.S.C. 922(o), generally are unlawful except for use by
>> a government agency or for exportation."
>> http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/gen_info.pdf
>
> You said they were banned.
>
> ban: verb (used with object)
>1. to prohibit, forbid, or bar;
>
> And you said quite clearly that a private citizen could NOT buy one, and
>challenged me to produce the method.
>
> I know they aren't imported or manufactured anymore. That's not what you
>said.
>
>> TITLE 18 - PART I - CHAPTER 44 Unlawful acts
>> (o)
>> (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person
>> to transfer or possess a machinegun.
>> (2) This subsection does not apply with respect to

 

[Jim Alder]

Steve <stevencanyon@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
newsq0sr3pnv7uaqseepvihk4qhf2vfkrqcu6@4ax.com:

>>> How about you actually BEGIN teaching now by QUOTING THE LAW that
>>> allows an ORDINARY CIVILIAN to go buy a machinegun. Start here:
>>
>> Here:
>>
>>http://www.csm-w.com/products/index.html?id=51&submit=view
>>
>> The second entry here is a .380 Cobray submachine gun (SMG) for sale to
>>private citizens. Says so right there. Call the ATF and report them. Prepare
>>to be laughed at.
>
> If you make owning a BAR a crime, only criminals will have BARs...

Yeah, but what's a little Cobray SMG among friends?

--
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm
to pass... it's about learning to dance
in the rain."

 

[Steve]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:55:49 -0600, Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com>
wrote:

>Steve <stevencanyon@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
>newsq0sr3pnv7uaqseepvihk4qhf2vfkrqcu6@4ax.com:
>
>>>> How about you actually BEGIN teaching now by QUOTING THE LAW that
>>>> allows an ORDINARY CIVILIAN to go buy a machinegun. Start here:
>>>
>>> Here:
>>>
>>>http://www.csm-w.com/products/index.html?id=51&submit=view
>>>
>>> The second entry here is a .380 Cobray submachine gun (SMG) for sale to
>>>private citizens. Says so right there. Call the ATF and report them. Prepare
>>>to be laughed at.
>>
>> If you make owning a BAR a crime, only criminals will have BARs...
>
> Yeah, but what's a little Cobray SMG among friends?

Yeah, but those modern plastic guns remind me of my grand kids squirt
guns. If you painted them bright red or blue you could walk around
with one and nobody would notice... but try that with a BAR....

 

[Jim Alder]

Steve <stevencanyon@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
news:qu4sr31m77rkmadcmbvjtbf78eoufcvclm@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:55:49 -0600, Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Steve <stevencanyon@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
>>newsq0sr3pnv7uaqseepvihk4qhf2vfkrqcu6@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>> How about you actually BEGIN teaching now by QUOTING THE LAW that
allows
>>>>> an ORDINARY CIVILIAN to go buy a machinegun. Start here:
>>>>
>>>> Here:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.csm-w.com/products/index.html?id=51&submit=view
>>>>
>>>> The second entry here is a .380 Cobray submachine gun (SMG) for sale
to
>>>>private citizens. Says so right there. Call the ATF and report them.
Prepare
>>>>to be laughed at.
>>>
>>> If you make owning a BAR a crime, only criminals will have BARs...
>>
>> Yeah, but what's a little Cobray SMG among friends?
>
> Yeah, but those modern plastic guns remind me of my grand kids squirt
> guns. If you painted them bright red or blue you could walk around
> with one and nobody would notice... but try that with a BAR....

Cobray's aren't plastic, they're little boat anchors. And you can touch up
most any real gun and make it look like a toy. The problem with that idea is,
you have to convince someone it's real at some point.

--
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm
to pass... it's about learning to dance
in the rain."

 

[Jerry Okamura]

"Gandalf Grey" <valinor20@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:47bb5cca$0$19140$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
>
> "Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
> news:47bb5f92$0$1113$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>> Guns aren't the problem. People are the problem.
>
> Actually, the problem is gun nuts with guns that are the problem.
>

NO!!! Gun nuts are people who love guns. There are far more honest
citizens who have guns who have never used it against another person, other
than in war. On the other hand, there are criminal citizens, who do use
guns against other people.....

 

[Steve]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:31:24 -0600, Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com>
wrote:

>Steve <stevencanyon@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
>news:qu4sr31m77rkmadcmbvjtbf78eoufcvclm@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:55:49 -0600, Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Steve <stevencanyon@yahooooooo.com> wrote in
>>>newsq0sr3pnv7uaqseepvihk4qhf2vfkrqcu6@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>>> How about you actually BEGIN teaching now by QUOTING THE LAW that
>allows
>>>>>> an ORDINARY CIVILIAN to go buy a machinegun. Start here:
>>>>>
>>>>> Here:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.csm-w.com/products/index.html?id=51&submit=view
>>>>>
>>>>> The second entry here is a .380 Cobray submachine gun (SMG) for sale
>to
>>>>>private citizens. Says so right there. Call the ATF and report them.
>Prepare
>>>>>to be laughed at.
>>>>
>>>> If you make owning a BAR a crime, only criminals will have BARs...
>>>
>>> Yeah, but what's a little Cobray SMG among friends?
>>
>> Yeah, but those modern plastic guns remind me of my grand kids squirt
>> guns. If you painted them bright red or blue you could walk around
>> with one and nobody would notice... but try that with a BAR....
>
> Cobray's aren't plastic, they're little boat anchors. And you can touch up

There's parts of them that are plastic. and parts that are stamped...

>most any real gun and make it look like a toy. The problem with that idea is,
>you have to convince someone it's real at some point.

That'd be when the little pointy thing come out the end...

 

[Steve]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:14:17 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>
>"Gandalf Grey" <valinor20@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:47bb5cca$0$19140$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
>>
>> "Gooserider" <Gooserider@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
>> news:47bb5f92$0$1113$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>>> Guns aren't the problem. People are the problem.
>>
>> Actually, the problem is gun nuts with guns that are the problem.
>>
>
>NO!!! Gun nuts are people who love guns. There are far more honest
>citizens who have guns who have never used it against another person, other
>than in war. On the other hand, there are criminal citizens, who do use
>guns against other people.....


Makes no sense to argue about guns with leftist loons... it's not
uncommon for little girls to be fearful of guns and all the leftist
loons around here are like little girls..

 

[Patriot Games]

"Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4B9B3EB33E4jimaldersssnetcom@216.196.97.142...
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bdc4fd$0$30703
> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>>>>>> Fred is a FOOL. Automatic rifles have been BANNED for decades.
>>>>> No, they aren't. They're just a little harder to buy than the
>>>>> regular
>>>>> stuff.
>>>> Feel free to CITE the procedures for a civilian buying an automatic
>>>> rifle.
>>> You need the signature of a local law enforcement head - a chief of
>>> police
>>> or a judge will do - and you pay a $200 fee.
>>> http://www.autoweapons.com/pagelinks/buyandsell.html
>>> What is a Class 3 License?
>>> A Class 3 Federal Firearms License is required for dealing,
>>> manufacturing,
>>> and importing firearms for the express purpose of revenue generation -
>>> not
>>> collecting. It is a felony to obtain a Class 3 License for the purpose
>>> of
>>> enhancing your collection.
>>> Do I need a license to buy a machine gun?
>>> No, you don't need a federal firearms license. If you are permitted by
>>> law
>>> to own a handgun and your state allows the transfer of machine guns, you
>>> can buy one (unless you are in a state that requires a C&R License for
>>> machine gun ownership.
>> You and your cite/site are wrong and misleading.
> No, it isn't. You just refuse to admit that you are wrong.
>> The "transfer of machine guns" is governed by the NFA (National Firearms
>> Act) and:
>> "Machineguns produced, imported, or registered after May 19, 1986, the
>> effective date of 18 U.S.C. 922(o), generally are unlawful except for use
>> by
>> a government agency or for exportation."
>> http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/gen_info.pdf
> You said they were banned.

They are.

I choose NOT to WASTE my time with FOOLS who play WORD GAMES.

YOU are a FOOL who plays WORD GAMES, like a little girl.

I hope you enjoyed the HUMILIATING EMBARRASSMENT of being made a FOOL of IN
PUBLIC.

> ban: verb (used with object)
> 1. to prohibit, forbid, or bar;
> And you said quite clearly that a private citizen could NOT buy one,
> and
> challenged me to produce the method.

I choose NOT to WASTE my time with FOOLS who play WORD GAMES.

YOU are a FOOL who plays WORD GAMES, like a little girl.

I hope you enjoyed the HUMILIATING EMBARRASSMENT of being made a FOOL of IN
PUBLIC.

The method you cited DOES NOT permit an ordinary citizen to purchase a
machinegun.

> I know they aren't imported or manufactured anymore. That's not what
> you
> said.

Again, YOU ARE WRONG. They are manufactured EVERY DAY in America.

I choose NOT to WASTE my time with FOOLS who play WORD GAMES.

YOU are a FOOL who plays WORD GAMES, like a little girl.

I hope you enjoyed the HUMILIATING EMBARRASSMENT of being made a FOOL of IN
PUBLIC.

>> TITLE 18 - PART I - CHAPTER 44 Unlawful acts
>> (o)
>> (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any
>> person
>> to transfer or possess a machinegun.
>> (2) This subsection does not apply with respect to

 

[Patriot Games]

"LoveSlinger" <lilhornie@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:08ec9877-0fcc-4846-a106-ab19efdbc17d@z70g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> America's KILLING-BY-GUN "problem" will never be solved, any more than
> the Israeli-Palestinian problem or the U.S.-Iraq-Afghanistan-Pakistan-
> Iran problem will ever be solved. Oh, we'll see more killing, but
> never solutions. Never stoppages. Never endings.

About 70% of violent crime in America is urban black-on-black.

It is NOT an "America" problem.

It is an URBAN BLACK problem.

If we FORCE them to keep the problem in their ghettos AND we ensure that
they kill themselves at a rate GREATER THAN the rate at which they reproduce
then the problem WILL solve itself eventually.

If THEY won't keep THEIR problem in THEIR ghetto then we will have to SPEED
UP the rate at which THEY become deceased.

Our PRIMARY concern is preventing the Socialists Democrats from taking a
problem caused by ONLY 13% of the US population and USING it to write laws
that affect 100% of the US population.

 

[Jim Alder]

"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:

> "Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote...
>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote:

>>>>>>> Fred is a FOOL. Automatic rifles have been BANNED for decades.
>
>> You said they were banned.
>
> They are.
>
> I choose NOT to WASTE my time with FOOLS who play WORD GAMES.

No, you choose to repeat yourself endlessly and tediously in the typical
puffery of an uninformed jerk who has been outed as such.

> The method you cited DOES NOT permit an ordinary citizen to purchase a
> machinegun.

Yes, it does.

>> I know they aren't imported or manufactured anymore. That's not what
>> you said.
>
> Again, YOU ARE WRONG. They are manufactured EVERY DAY in America.

Not for sale to the private sector, which is the point of contention. I
know the military is still getting them, Why do you choose to be ridiculous?

> I choose NOT to WASTE my time with FOOLS who play WORD GAMES.

You don't seem to mind playing such games yourself.

>>>I said: "Feel free to CITE the procedures for a
>>> civilian buying an automatic
>>> rifle."THERE ARE NONE.
>
>> I explained how one does so. You seem to have deleted my answer or your
>> reader has obscured it.
>
> No. You FAILED to do so.

Prove it. I have it on excellent authority and have provided several
sources to back it up. You have neither.

>>>> But a friend of mine with a Class 3 license makes an excellent living
>>>> selling fully automatic weapons.
>
>>>Selling them TO WHOM?
>
>> Collectors of such things.
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
>
> Collectors!?!?!?!
>
> BWAahahahahahahahahahahahha!!!

A splendid and intellectual rebuttal. Your best effort yet.

>> http://www.csm-w.com/products/index.html?id=51&submit=view
>> The second entry here is a .380 Cobray submachine gun (SMG) for sale to
>> private citizens.
>
> The Cobray is AN ANTIQUE! Its a CURIO!! Its a RELIC!!

It's a machine gun.

> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
>
> You're DISMISSED.

Not much point in hanging around. You're obviously too stupid to learn
anything.

--
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm
to pass... it's about learning to dance
in the rain."

 

[Jim Alder]

"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bf21d6$0$7033
$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> If THEY won't keep THEIR problem in THEIR ghetto then we will have to SPEED
> UP the rate at which THEY become deceased.
>
> Our PRIMARY concern is preventing the Socialists Democrats from taking a
> problem caused by ONLY 13% of the US population and USING it to write laws
> that affect 100% of the US population.

Much of the problem is caused by a tiny fraction of one percent of the
population who happen to share a skin color with 13% of the US population, you
genocidal throwback.

--
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm
to pass... it's about learning to dance
in the rain."

 

[Patriot Games]

"Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A4D11C193D1Bjimaldersssnetcom@216.196.97.142...
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bf21d6$0$7033
> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>> If THEY won't keep THEIR problem in THEIR ghetto then we will have to
>> SPEED
>> UP the rate at which THEY become deceased.
>> Our PRIMARY concern is preventing the Socialists Democrats from taking a
>> problem caused by ONLY 13% of the US population and USING it to write
>> laws
>> that affect 100% of the US population.
> Much of the problem is caused by a tiny fraction of one percent of the
> population who happen to share a skin color with 13% of the US population,
> you
> genocidal throwback.

You have previously been dismissed.

Now GO THE **** AWAY.

 

[Jim Alder]

"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47c07ebe$0$4956
$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> "Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A4D11C193D1Bjimaldersssnetcom@216.196.97.142...
>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in news:47bf21d6$0$7033
>> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>>> If THEY won't keep THEIR problem in THEIR ghetto then we will have to
>>> SPEED
>>> UP the rate at which THEY become deceased.
>>> Our PRIMARY concern is preventing the Socialists Democrats from taking a
>>> problem caused by ONLY 13% of the US population and USING it to write
>>> laws that affect 100% of the US population.
>> Much of the problem is caused by a tiny fraction of one percent of the
>> population who happen to share a skin color with 13% of the US population,
>> you genocidal throwback.
>
> You have previously been dismissed.

You can leave. You can killfile me. You can go **** yourself.

Pick one, racist puke.

--
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm
to pass... it's about learning to dance
in the rain."