HAMAS Legalizes the Crucifixion of Christians and other Enemies and Israel to invade

[Friðbjörn]

think about it, they've put walls everywhere...
trying to garrison themselves away from all their enemies who just about surround them.


this wouldn't be such a problem and middle eastern people wouldn't be so furious if the western powers hadn't decided to make up a new state (Israel) right on top of an already existing one, that being Palestine.
if the now Israeli people had just migrated there and blended in with everyone else peacefully this probably wouldn't be such a problem.

people here who think I'm being full of bullshit should look into their own mind and see what their own agenda is. I'm not rooting for Hamas here in conflict, I really wish everyone would just stop this nonsense and let people move back to their houses (which were destroyed) and that everyone could live in peace.

cause I realize that of course both sides have some fault, but not the part of the conflict that is the innocent civilans being slaughtered, the hundreds of Palestinians and the four Israelis. what would make sense would be for both sides to let go of weapons and start negotiating. but once war starts, both sides are afraid if they lay down weapons the other one will slaughter them. pretty rightfully so even.

Israel in this shares a problem with the US. massive state of the art military, and for what? defense? those two countries share the issue that if they were simply to stand down and rid themselves of armies people in other countries wouldn't hate them so much, and there wouldn't be this terrorism.

 

[GraDoN]

the marked in bold.. is bullshit

I don't get it why Palestinians are making such a big problem out of it... when they have zillion of muslims states they could live in...

qft that whole region all the neighboring countries even in noth africa are all occupied by muslims. And its not like america took random muslim land and said wow lets make them angry and call this isreal and put jews there, That land has been home to the jews for thousands of years

 

[Friðbjörn]

It is not bullshit and wow you two are so ignorant of this thing...
gradon, you're in South Africa...and even you don't get this. Palestinians are having to huddle up together, 1.5 million of them in a tiny zone with no basic needs...definitely comparable to certain aspects of apartheid.
a lot of people are also calling this genocide...Israel is also using chemical weapons on Palestine civilians...

and the point that you two think you're making is one of the dumbest I've ever seen. Tomer, you wouldn't like it if someone decided Belgium no longer was considered a country, and hundreds of thousands or millions of people were suddenly to move in, and Belgian houses demolished and people killed so that new ones could be built...
you would be angry if you were robbed of basic needs and if other people said "well you can just move to some random place where other people of similar ethnicity or religion live". it's not about that. its about being allowed to live where you want to live.

and if we go into that, under these conditions Palestinians don't want to live there. they dont want to be bombed just for living there. they would like to flee now. but I can't overstate this, THEY CAN'T. Israel has them surrounded, and doesn't even allow transport of basic goods like food or electricity into the area...They can't even flee.
and that's not even the point. they shouldn't have to flee. their children shouldn't have to die playing outside in the streets. the people lying in hospital beds sick or injured shouldn't have to die because the hospitals dont get vital electricity to keep them alive and well...

seriously, how can you support mass murder of people that have done nothing?


and you know why people will support hamas? because they have nothing else. when everything fails, they cannot turn to media for info because there is no electricity or barely any, so there's no tv or radio, no internet. no newspapers being delivered because the paper people would be scared to **** to be bombed when outside having a stroll.
when the community is faultering because of the airstrikes and ground warfare, there is nothing to count on but hamas for them. and when are people going to realize that people get angry when their children and families are being murdered?

the US used the same thing to rationalize invasions of afghanistan and iraq...

 

[GraDoN]

all is can say is that isreal is simply defending their people, they have a strict policy to hit hard whenever they are attacked. I had a math teacher who visited isreal regularly and he says that whenever a missile hits them they respond immediately with an counter attack. And Most of the muslim countries around isreal have publicly announced that they want to kill every Isrealite and remove isreal from the earth. The iranian president recently said that they will remove isreal from the face of the earth. But lets just blame isreal... In a war civilians will die, thats an unfortunate fact.

 

[Clogz]

In the end, this is a conflict that has deeply entrenched roots for both sides. These wars won't end until one of them has wiped the other off the face of the Earth.
Sadly, it is the only possible way the situation will ever reach a point of peace. No number of protests or UN resolutions will accomplish it.
I'm not advocating war, I'm simply commenting on the uselessness of asking these two groups to 'back down' and 'get along'. It is all or nothing with these people, there are no cease fires and peace treaties in their world.

 

[Sygy]

I've been to Israel a couple of times, I have friends there..........

I agree with Gradon...... They are not going to sit back and watch while rockets are raining into Israeli cities.....

Hamas had couple of opportunities to make a Palestinian state but they let that chance go by...... by continuting their rockets, suicide bombings.

Israel gave it a chance 6 months ago and HAMAS violated it not ISRAEL with sending rockets in small numbers (comparing to now over 40 per day)

there is evidence to prove that Isreal sent in rockets first! And if Hamas is the one to blame for stopping the cease fire then why did they do it? bc Isreal never met the needs of the first ceasefire which was to end the blockage and let more that basic humanitarian aid into Gaza!! The fact that Isreal is cluster bombing is horrendous and that they are using white phosperous meaning that women and children are being treated for terrible burnts. Isreal are still claiming that Hamas leader are hiding in civilian areas but when it comes down to it, the international community will acknowledge this when it is proven by an independent body preferably the UN.

As for the Humanitarian crisis being caused by Hamas and Hamas destroying the Gaza thats not entirely true. pls refer to this good old amnesty international report: http://www.amnestyusa.org/israelreport.pdf

As for moving the Palestinians into other regions to clear space for the Isrealis? thats almost ethnic cleanising (yes even if its not techincally 'genocide' its cleansing as your removing a pecticular
ethnicity from an area).

 

[Sygy]

the un are morons...

what all the countries that voted for the ceasefire are morons and an organisation which is democratic forum of the world is a moron? virtually powerless maybe as they dont have a large amount of peace keeping troops.

 

[GraDoN]

and the so called chemical weapons being used is all speculation and there is no proof of it. And the UN is a joke. Look deeper that what they show you

 

[Sygy]

That they used white phosporus in 2006 against Lebannon when its illegal to use in civilians only as a diversion in warfare, which is against international law.so,if the isreali government arnt using WP when why are the failed to prove to the UN that they arnt using it when they were directly asked to clarify what the white powder in the photographs taken by the english foreign media were?

if they are using it then its technically a war crime. not to mention that isreal forces moved children into a building for their own safety and then razed it to the ground, whatever that be deliberate then its sickening or accidential, meaning that the men at the top dont have a full grip on what happening on the ground.
***
more on the info humanitarian crisis
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7812295.stm

 

[Clogz]

Why is that Israel is the only country on Earth that recieves international backlash for defending itself?

I mean really, the United States invaded and practically destroyed Iraq - a country that had almost nothing to do with 9/11 - and no one officially said anything. No UN resolution. All in the name of defending itself.

Israel invades the Gaza province that has been firing rockets at it for months, and well THAT is an international incident. Suddenly, the UN is all involved. Suddenly, Europe is all like "You guys should stop that!" Well fancy that...Europe won't stand up to American crimes, but they'll stand up to Israel crimes in a heartbeat.

That's what you call a 'double standard'. Or prejudice. Pick your poison.

 

[GraDoN]

good point clogz, and people are making it sound like isreal is invading gaza for no reason...

 

[Sygy]

There was a HUGE amount of protest to the Iraq War! Annan and the rest of the Un declared it illegal and the UN tried alteast ten times to push through a resolution on it but Britan and the rest of the 'willing' put pressure on other countries to pass a no vote. so alot of people said something, there was a huge media backlash in the Uk and the rest of the Eu for countries joining not having done a referedum and joining despite huge public, media and political outcry.

The thing is even is Hamas starting firing the rockets or if Israel did break the ceasefire (which there is evidence for) then cant hamas defend its interests, being its people? After all, the big bashlash for Israels actions is the amount of force but most importantly the fact that they arent allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza. its not really double standards as Israel are preventing aid for entering, just this morning there was a call for a 3 hour ceasefire so that aid could enter Gaza (israel carried on with its offensive regardless) and yes wedid botch up in Iraq but we brought aid.

 

[Clogz]

There was a HUGE amount of protest to the Iraq War! Annan and the rest of the Un declared it illegal and the UN tried alteast ten times to push through a resolution on it but Britan and the rest of the 'willing' put pressure on other countries to pass a no vote. so alot of people said something, there was a huge media backlash in the Uk and the rest of the Eu for countries joining not having done a referedum and joining despite huge public, media and political outcry.

The thing is even is Hamas starting firing the rockets or if Israel did break the ceasefire (which there is evidence for) then cant hamas defend its interests, being its people? After all, the big bashlash for Israels actions is the amount of force but most importantly the fact that they arent allowing humanitarian aid into Gaza. its not really double standards as Israel are preventing aid for entering, just this morning there was a call for a 3 hour ceasefire so that aid could enter Gaza (israel carried on with its offensive regardless) and yes wedid botch up in Iraq but we brought aid.

Part of my point with my original post is that there was protest...but no OFFICIAL action was taken. And the outcry against the war has only come in more recent years...the last three in particular. Before that, most people approved because according to our 'intelligence', Iraq was actually a threat.
Call it whatever you want, but doing nothing is doing nothing. I mean, I at least expected an angry letter when those stealth bombers hit Baghdad before declared war...which is against the Geneva convention, I believe (I could be wrong).

 

[Hazi[LP]Tonz]

i believe that there is more backlash as its seen that Israel is acting on its own rather than an Allince of nations- US,UK,Canada,France,Australia...etc sending troops to Afghan and Iraq, while the UN can be angry at both, its just easier to go against one nation then it is when half the developed world sent troops, just me

 

[Sygy]

i believe that there is more backlash as its seen that Israel is acting on its own rather than an Allince of nations- US,UK,Canada,France,Australia...etc sending troops to Afghan and Iraq, while the UN can be angry at both, its just easier to go against one nation then it is when half the developed world sent troops, just me

That is so right as with Iraq there was the whole group of the willing (or whatever they were called) which bullied all the other countries in casting no votes, well who really is going to go up against America, eh? But its not double standards as resolutions were pushed through but couldnt be impliemented as America, Britain, Austrailia etc when in regardless. apart from that, the reason why israel faces such backlash, again, is that it is defense always turns into a violent offensive. again there is evidence to show that israel broke the ceasefire first by sending troops over and firstly by not keeping to the terms of the ceasefire which was lift the blockage to allow medicine, food and other aid into Gaza. one could easily argue that cant hamas defend the interests of the people who elected them into power.
anyways, i heard the most pathetic argument today that palestine dont really have a claim to being where it is as it was only formed after the collapse of the ottoman empire. Most countries are formed after the collapse of empires, most of western europe was formed from the province they were when under Roman control and would you argue that the Czech Republic didnt have a claim to being there or romania, serbia after the fall of the austro-hungarian empire! gah! (nothing to do with what anyone said on here just thought it wasnt a good point someone made in my school).

anyways, aparently the isrealis have been shooting down civilians this morning who have been waving white flags.

and what does everyone think about Hezbollah now getting involved? do you think that have a claim to get involved? or are just trying there luck after 2006? either way its still unite around a common enemy. and ace, did u post the article about hamas legalising the crucifixion of christians?

 

[Clogz]

i believe that there is more backlash as its seen that Israel is acting on its own rather than an Allince of nations- US,UK,Canada,France,Australia...etc sending troops to Afghan and Iraq, while the UN can be angry at both, its just easier to go against one nation then it is when half the developed world sent troops, just me

Then the UN has failed its role in the world, and no longer serves any real purpose outside of a world stage that has no ACTUAL consequences on the world.
And thus, why Israel ignores them. And America. And all these psycho-dictators like Kim Jong-Il.:-|

 

[GraDoN]

the only reason they created the UN was so that a few people can feel important and so that Angelina can act all caring and adopt all the children of the world.

 

[GraDoN]

http://dotsub.com/view/80f72f12-a701-4520-9925-d96e2d9d4808
lol thats some hardcore stuff

 

[GraDoN]

its working here :<
its a 2 man ambush on Israeli troops and then they kill the hamas them and the last one throws a grenade at the officer he then grabs the hamas soldier and shields himself from the grenade while killing the hamas guy. No israel soldiers died