Head in the sand ****ers.

[TooDrunkToFuck]

Ya caint have an internet debate without at least one referrence to Hitler by a left-wing loony.

Says the guy who starts saying "pinko commie liberal" 50 times a post whenever someone says they support equal rights and the government not interfering in people's social lives. The referce to the Reichstag fire wasn't even done to compare Dubyah to Hitler, but as another example of a government using a terrorist act to build a case to do whatever they want. A different Nazi said it best:

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

 

[TooDrunkToFuck]

Posted by TDTF:
Here's whats chapping my ass. How exactly can the Gov protect us from the threat of terrorism without some conceived "rollback of freedoms"????

By finding the terrorists and stopping them. They don't need laws stating they can declare people terrorists and hold them indefinitely without charge for that. The amount of terrorists caught hasn't greatly increased since The Patriot Act and other measures either. If you plan on citing that other guy's quotes that he didn't give sources for, show me which of them have been actually arrested and prosecuted based on The Patriot Act. It's actually going after the terrorists where they live rather than the scaremongering and cutback on civil liberties at home that's weakened them.

Honestly whats been implemented and suggested as proactive steps to prevent and root out terrorists, is relatively mild. Japanese internment camps, well those were slightly more overt measures.

We already have concentration camps for this war, such as Camp X-Ray.

Point being, it is not possible to deter terror without clamps being applied to our open society. The 9/11 terrorist used our freedoms to hide before the strike.

How'd they do that? Reading literature from people who hate America, for instance, doesn't make you a terrorist. It's similar to how not everyone who reads The Turner Diaries is a militant neo-Nazi or even necessarily a racist. The current laws draw a thin line between a dissident and a terrorist.

Funny, hmmm maybe. Whats really poignant is this. NOT ONE TERROR ATTACK SINCE 9/11.

So it's been about 5 years, and there've been several attacks on US allies. A pattern consistent with how things went before 9/11, The Patriot Act, and Ashcroft's ascension to Attorney General.

Agreed? So what do you attribute this to Mr critic? Luck? Afraid to admit maybe something administered by the Bush administration actually worked? What sickens me is this devout bias against a particular political party that you will allow to blind you from what is real.

Oh sure, their system works. That's why Moussaoui's trial is being postponed, as he called on witnesses our government is holding without charge based on the new "hold 'em indefinitely without charges" policy.

What is real is we haven't been attacked again since we brought death and destruction to the Muslim world. What is real is we haven't been attacked again since our precious freedoms have been so treaded upon. I sure haven't noticed any constriction in my daily movements. Then again I'm not phoning contacts in Saudi Arabia.

Uh, yah, exactly how often were we successfully attacked before 9/11? Terrorism was considered such a minor issue before Bush was in office that people got on Clinton's ass for wasting too much time going after Bin Laden (and he came closer to killing Bin Laden than we have post-9/11). I've yet to see any evidence that these new policies are doing anything other than letting them toss away people who cause too much 'trouble', whether they've been proven to be violent or not.

Tree hugging ****ing faggots like you have weakened America. That's why ***** politics don't work, and generally most Americans won't allow hippy faggots to decide our nations security policies. We can't defeat terrorist by cooking up a big 'ol pot 'o friendship.

You can't "defeat terrorists" as a whole period. You go after them individually and work to prevent terrorist groups from recruiting new members. But if you're suggesting that war mongering actually keeps countries safe, you're retarded. Spreading their forces too thin was a large part of Greece's downfall.

BTW, I'm not a ****ing "hippy." I find them as annoying as you rednecks. I just support people's right to think for themselves and live as they want if they're not hurting anyone else. That's why it pisses me off when Bush says it's unacceptable for people to THINK a certain way.

 

[TooDrunkToFuck]

If I deciphered your post correctly your asserting that my Government has launched a war for the main purpose of stimulating patriotic fervor.

More like the other way around.

"Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac."

- George Orwell



Although you have to differentiate between the pointless war in Iraq and the justified war in Afghanistan.

 

[bry0000000]

Pointless if you ask me. Cesar was a jackass, and apparently your following suit.

If I deciphered your post correctly your asserting that my Government has launched a war for the main purpose of stimulating patriotic fervor.

A) It's you're, not your. You're following suit. Spell check isn't enough.

I have serious issue with that clumsy proposal. Patriotism never reached such an apex as it did following the 9/11 attacks. It was another factions act of war AGAINST the United States that spurred this revival of patriotism.

B) And because of that, we are fighting a pointless war on a false pretense that we're eliminating weapons of mass destruction and preventing the terrorists from attacking again. Did you know that Iraq under Saddam had only one instance of terrorism (invasion of Kuwait). Now, post Iraq war, Iraq has become a haven for terrorists. It seems as if we have created a terrorist state instead of eliminating one. This points to the effectiveness of our current administration.

Now unless your a loon and your saying that the US Gov conspired 9/11 to drum up patriotism as a means of launching a battle against Islam, then your silly point is fruitless.

C) I personally do not beleive that George W orchistrated 9/11, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it were true. For example, why were all videotapes showing the pentagon crash confiscated (ex: personal tapes),? Why was the black box that crashed in the middle of nowhere never recovered until a few month's later? Can anyone explain why the damage at the pentagon is not consistant with that of a 747?

Your aren't a loon are you? Hmmm....maybe so. Get your head out of your ass you weakling.

D) Seriously, what community college did you drop out of?

 

[Jhony5]

A) It's you're, not your. You're following suit. Spell check isn't enough.

Oh for fux sake you jackass. Make one mistake and I'm gonna ****ing shove it down YOUR throat pal! Don't grade my post like a college thesis you stupid ****. This is a debate forum that folks often utilize while watching TV late at night. Finding a simple typo does not support your views.

Did you know that Iraq under Saddam had only one instance of terrorism (invasion of Kuwait).

Errrmmm...cough cough Kurds...cough...cough...chemical anihilation...cough cough genocide......

Why was the black box that crashed in the middle of nowhere never recovered until a few month's later?

"NEVER RECOVERED UNTIL A FEW MONTHS LATER".....hahahahahahahaha and HA. Read that again idiot and tell me that doesn't sound real gosh dern smart.
I lost a sock last week and never recovered it ...until yesterday, never I tells ya.

Can anyone explain why the damage at the pentagon is not consistent with that of a 747?

Scan back several pages in this thread. I already ripped that one apart.

D) Seriously, what community college did you drop out of?

I didn't not ever makes it to's fancy community college. High school wuz to hard fer me. All that there learnin junk hurted my brain faculties.

Admit it, your resorting to petty insults as means of disguising your foolishness. Debate the issue or shut the **** up bud.!.!.!

 

[bry0000000]

A) Hypocrit

B) No ****, dumbass. Saddam was a *******. But only once did he make any agressive move outside his country. Contemporary Russia is more of a threat to the United States than pre-war Iraq was.

C) I love how you didn't answer the black box question.

D) I read those threads. Your arguments were fallacy-filled and weak in general.

Let me give you some advice:

Debate the issue or shut the **** up bud.!.!.!

 

[Jhony5]

Posted by bry:

D) I read those threads. Your arguments were fallacy-filled and weak in general.

Take a shot then. Counter them.

C) I love how you didn't answer the black box question.

I don't know much about black box's. Not my area of expertise.

Actually, if you had really read the whole thread, you would have understood. The engines as well as the black box feel deep into the bowls of the pentagon. It would be nice if, in a mess suck as the one found at the pentagon, every little scrap of the plane could be easily located. Unfortunately sometimes the reality is quite different.

Contemporary Russia is more of a threat to the United States than pre-war Iraq was.

We are at war with Islam (Muslim extremist). So is Russia in their own way.

 

[Semper Fi- do or die!]

Wow, you guys are harsh...

Anyway

strategypage.com

A site that views eveything going on in the world as history! Nothing else. Pretty cool actually. You asked for it. Plus if you just go to any Government webiste about captured or dead terrorists it will show the same stuff.

I know we all get angry at retards that believe the governement did it but there are always those conspircy nuts and they always need something. Roswells alittle old. Besides 98% of America doesn't trust the news anyway.

 

[snafu]

Wow, you guys are harsh...

Anyway

strategypage.com

A site that views eveything going on in the world as history! Nothing else. Pretty cool actually. You asked for it. Plus if you just go to any Government webiste about captured or dead terrorists it will show the same stuff.

I know we all get angry at retards that believe the governement did it but there are always those conspircy nuts and they always need something. Roswells alittle old. Besides 98% of America doesn't trust the news anyway.

Hey thanks for the web site. I bookmarked it.

http://strategypage.com/

 

[TooDrunkToFuck]

I repeat, you do realize a terrorist is legally outmanuevering the US government because of these new measures, right? And how many terrorists have actually been convicted (as opposed to killed or simply tossed away for interrogation) based on these new policies?

This may be news to you, but we were perfectly capable of going over to the Middle East and blowing people up before we decided to slowly morph into a police state. The former isn't dependent on the latter.

 

[snafu]

I repeat, you do realize a terrorist is legally outmanuevering the US government because of these new measures, right? And how many terrorists have actually been convicted (as opposed to killed or simply tossed away for interrogation) based on these new policies?

This may be news to you, but we were perfectly capable of going over to the Middle East and blowing people up before we decided to slowly morph into a police state. The former isn't dependent on the latter.

I'm sorry but I think you're to drunk to write too. What new measures and how are the terrorist LEGALLY outmanuevering the us? I think I am in agreance with you but you need to explain.

 

[TooDrunkToFuck]

Moussaoui's trial has been indefinitely postponed due to the fact that he's called witnesses the US is detaining without charges. If we were working based on the pre-Patriot Act policies, they wouldn't have been jailed until we had charges on them, and we would've convicted Moussaoui by now. But I guess since it's the US' decision not to give them up, they think these guys are more important than convicting Moussaoui.

 

[snafu]

Moussaoui's trial has been indefinitely postponed due to the fact that he's called witnesses the US is detaining without charges. If we were working based on the pre-Patriot Act policies, they wouldn't have been jailed until we had charges on them, and we would've convicted Moussaoui by now. But I guess since it's the US' decision not to give them up, they think these guys are more important than convicting Moussaoui.

The Patriot act has nothing to do with detainees. It is counter intelligence measures. The terrorsist you are talking about are combatants. They don't get the US judical system. Well if the liberals had their way they would. Moussaoui was convicted to life in prison so I don't know what your talking about there.

 

[TooDrunkToFuck]

The Patriot act has nothing to do with detainees.

Actually, you're right here. It's not The Patriot Act specicially that allows for detaining people indefinitely without charges. It's the definition of terrorists as non-entities. Regardless, the bottom line is that they currently are able to declare people terrorists and don't have to actually charge them with crimes.

It is counter intelligence measures. The terrorsist you are talking about are combatants. They don't get the US judical system. Well if the liberals had their way they would.

What specific "liberals" are pressing for the rights of terrorists as soldiers? I could do without it, but that's neither here nor there.

Although I find it ironic to on the one hand talk about a "war" on terrorism, but on the other hand state that they aren't legitimate war combatants. Either it's a real war or it's not.

Moussaoui was convicted to life in prison so I don't know what your talking about there.

He was? Aaaaah, just googled it. So they convicted him just this year. OK. However, his trial was for a time postponed for that reason.

 

[Hamza123]

Errrmmm...cough cough Kurds...cough...cough...chemical anihilation...cough cough genocide......

In my journey of eternal wisdom I must walk into another rake to heal my wounds of my last scar...

Hey.... HYPOCRITE...

Who has used chemical anihilation... cough... cough... and... cough... genocide? And admitted to it...

US troops used white phosphorus as a weapon in last year's offensive in the Iraqi city of Falluja, the US has said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4440664.stm

• 
  [ ]Spontaneously flammable chemical used for battlefield illumination

• 
  [ ]Contact with particles causes burning of skin and flesh

• 
  [ ]Use of incendiary weapons prohibited for attacking civilians (Protocol III of Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons)
  [ ]Protocol III not signed by US

Hey Jhony, even your butt-buddies use it...


Israel Using White Phosphorus On Lebanese Civilians
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ld6cOJqyPqY


The Truth about Falluja IRAQ - US uses chemical weapons
A SOLDIER ADMITS TO BEING TOLD TO SHOOT LITTLE KIDS!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rsxoeaJuyZc

 

[Jhony5]

Hey.... HYPOCRITE...

Who has used chemical anihilation... cough... cough... and... cough... genocide? And admitted to it...

So what your saying is the US has intentionally and directly targeted a civilian population of a specific ethnic demographic for the sole purpose of wiping them of the face of the planet?

People do bad things in the midst of fighting a war. This includes American soldiers. Some of the actions of Americans have been down right despicable. The difference is they WILL be held accountable when their egregious actions are brought to light. We have several soldiers who are currently facing the death penalty for their actions in Falluja.

Your mistaken to draw a parallel between the use of white phosphorus by US troops and the subsequent collateral damage incurred, and direct targeting of ethnic populations to achieve genocidal results.

 

[snafu]

In my journey of eternal wisdom I must walk into another rake to heal my wounds of my last scar...

Hey.... HYPOCRITE...

Who has used chemical anihilation... cough... cough... and... cough... genocide? And admitted to it...





Hey Jhony, even your butt-buddies use it...


Israel Using White Phosphorus On Lebanese Civilians
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ld6cOJqyPqY


The Truth about Falluja IRAQ - US uses chemical weapons
A SOLDIER ADMITS TO BEING TOLD TO SHOOT LITTLE KIDS!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rsxoeaJuyZc

Cough cough.......Hamza you forgot to read:

It was used as an incendiary weapon against enemy combatants," spokesman Lt Col Barry Venable told the BBC - though not against civilians, he said.

You need to be more open minded. Were did I hear that?
And cough cough..... Saddam targeted civilians DIRECTLY!! cough cough.... big differance.

 

[Hamza123]

You need to be more open minded. Were did I hear that?
And cough cough..... Saddam targeted civilians DIRECTLY!! cough cough.... big differance.

You obviously skipped the YouTube videos where soldiers admit to being told to target any male young or old!! 10 year olds, 20 year olds, the bunch.

And you OBVISOULY did NOT watch the white phosphorous video... Those were mostly women and children, just because you claim to target combatants, doesn't mean it's true. Just like the claim of Saddams Weapons and all.

 

[hugo]

You obviously skipped the YouTube videos where soldiers admit to being told to target any male young or old!! 10 year olds, 20 year olds, the bunch.

And you OBVISOULY did NOT watch the white phosphorous video... Those were mostly women and children, just because you claim to target combatants, doesn't mean it's true. Just like the claim of Saddams Weapons and all.

Who cares..it ain't like they are white kids.

 

[Jhony5]

You obviously skipped the YouTube videos where soldiers admit to being told to target any male young or old!! 10 year olds, 20 year olds, the bunch.

And you OBVISOULY did NOT watch the white phosphorous video... Those were mostly women and children, just because you claim to target combatants, doesn't mean it's true. Just like the claim of Saddams Weapons and all.

.......PFFT....and you dog my white ass for getting information from American media.

As we all know, Youtube is the most reliable and non-bias form of news reporting.

You obviously attach yourself to any "information" that supports your agenda.

I'm a fool for believing that 9/11 was the result of pissed off Muslims. But your an enlightened soul whom gets his news from Youtube. Your biting on the spin that the liberals of the world have set in front of you. Ready for your eager consumption. You subscribe to wholly unsubstantiated crackpot conspiracy theories and clips of statements that have been taken completely out of context, aired on a video internet entertainment website. WTF is your malfunction bud?

where soldiers admit to being told to target any male young or old

Unlike civilized races, Arabs put guns and bombs in the hands of children and instruct them to kill. Dispute that homeboy!!!