Head in the sand ****ers.

[Lethalfind]

You know I was totally pissed off today already because it is ****ing 2006 and my job site was shut down (with the help of cops) because we did not have union labor on site. So first off **** THE UNIONS & now for my rant on this retarded subject;

The pentagon was hit by a plane, I know because I was working in the Watergate building across the river and watched the ****ing plane come in, the next day my crew

 

[Jhony5]

Posted by Hamza:

There is no scar or entry hole that could possibly support this scenario. Neither is there any wreckage to be seen in front of the building.

This is a flat out lie. Many pieces of the left wing section were found embedded into the ground. It has not only been proven that a plane hit the pentagon, but at what angle the plane was tilted.

What are you supposing, Hamza? That a missile hit the pentagon? If so the entire wall would have been blown to pieces, including your precious 'no parking' sign. You didn't even try to debunk the article I provided.

There is no scar or entry hole that could possibly support this scenario. Neither is there any wreckage to be seen in front of the building. Precious little wreckage was found inside the building either. The plane

 

[builder]

As usual, the "believers" choose to sidetrack and derail, without approaching the issue like a true debate. Jhony5 and Hamza aside, no real effort is being made to address the real issues.

Lethal agrees with me that Bush knew about the attacks in one thread, and calls us conspiracy nuts in this one. Make up your ****ing mind, dipshit.

Here's a debate between a rep from Popular Mechanics magazine, and a rep from the makers of the most-watched internet movie, Loose Change.

And Hugo a gogo, if you parrot any more rightard ****-for-brains remarks, without referencing them, or trying to explain them, your arse in the box for a week.

 

[builder]

This quote is from the link above. I've read snafu's explanation of the wings folding in and being engulfed in flame. I can understand that somewhat, because the wings are full of fuel, usually, but there were two jet engines mounted on those wings, made of titanium and steel. Where are those ****ing engines? And where are the entry holes for those ****ing engines?

AMY GOODMAN: I do want to go to another clip of the movie, though, of the film. I want to turn to Loose Change, the part that does deal with the damage to the Pentagon. It begins with a clip of CNN's coverage on 9/11.

NARRATOR: These photos were taken before the roof of the outer ring had collapsed. The only visible damage to the outer wall is a single hole no more than 16 feet in diameter. A Boeing 757 is 155 feet long, 44 feet high, has 124-foot wingspan and weighs almost 100 tons. Are we supposed to believe that it disappeared into this hole without leaving any wreckage on the outside? Why is there no damage from where the wings or the vertical stabilizer or the engines would have slammed into the building?

Remember how big the engines were? If six tons of steel and titanium slammed into the Pentagon at 530 miles per hour, they would bury themselves inside the building leaving two very distinct imprints. And yet the only damage to the outer wall is this single hole with no damage from where the engines would have hit. Why are the windows next to the hole completely intact? Why are the cable spools in front of the hole unmoved?

 

[builder]

Hamza is truly a ****in' loon. Occam's razor folks. What happened to Flight 77?

This is what happened to it: http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

****ing Rense???? Bwahahahahahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

The only truly ****ed up looney here is you, Hugo a gogo.

 

[Jhony5]

I can debunk any and every possible "What about the... and ya but the hole is only this big so...." bullshit with a simple question.

If it wasn't flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon THEN WHAT THE ****ING HELL HAPPENED TO FLIGHT 77 AND ALL THE PEOPLE ABOARD IT????

Answer that tinhat?

Go on .....don't stutter mother****er I asked a question....answer it!! Those people had families and Friends. The flight plan and maintenance records are all clearly documented.

If indeed that plane didn't crash into the Pentagon, and there was another cause for the disaster at the Pentagon, then where is the plane? Where are the people? Until that question can be addressed in even the most remotely elementary way, there is absolutely no ****ing cause for this discussion.

Am I right or am I right?

If you crashed a mini-van into a reinforced brick wall at 120 MPH, would you seriously expect a cartoonish outline of a mini-van to be present in the impact area of the wall? Or would you reasonably expect to see a hole about half the size of the vehicle?

Be careful answering that, as you might make a tremendous ass out of yourself.

 

[builder]

I can debunk any and every possible "What about the... and ya but the hole is only this big so...." bullshit with a simple question.

If it wasn't flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon THEN WHAT THE ****ING HELL HAPPENED TO FLIGHT 77 AND ALL THE PEOPLE ABOARD IT????

While that point is worthy of a debate, by itself, it does not answer my question, nor does it justify avoiding what evidence there is, that the type of plane specified, did not hit that building.

Answer that tinhat?

If I want to get down to name-calling ad hominen ****ing tripe, I would have posted this thread in the alt. forums. Keep your hat on, Jhony5.

Go on .....don't stutter mother****er I asked a question....answer it!! Those people had families and Friends. The flight plan and maintenance records are all clearly documented.

No doubt there are records of the flight. Why did none of the nineteen accused show up on any of those flight records, Jhony?

If indeed that plane didn't crash into the Pentagon, and there was another cause for the disaster at the Pentagon, then where is the plane? Where are the people? Until that question can be addressed in even the most remotely elementary way, there is absolutely no ****ing cause for this discussion.

Red herring, Mister. It's called putting the cart before the donkey. We have no plane, so it must have hit the Pentagon. Try again. That's not good enough, Hombre.

Am I right or am I right?

You're not right. You posted a red herring. I thought you could debate.

If you crashed a mini-van into a reinforced brick wall at 120 MPH, would you seriously expect a cartoonish outline of a mini-van to be present in the impact area of the wall? Or would you reasonably expect to see a hole about half the size of the vehicle?

I understand construction more than most here. I'm a builder, remember? If the nose-cone and fuselage of that jet managed to punch a fairly neat hole through several walls of reinforced concrete, what the **** happened to the densest, heaviest, most indestructible parts of that jet? Meaning the ****ing engines themselves? Six tons of steel and titanium don't just bounce of the wall, when the nose of the plane penetrated it almost to the back of the ****ing building, Jhony5.

Be careful answering that, as you might make a tremendous ass out of yourself.

You already have, by avoiding the issues, and relying on emotional crapola, like, "what about the people"? What a crock of ****. What about some evidence, Mister??????

 

[8 mecos]

Whose head is in the sand? Sounds like yours.
1) This has been going on long before 9/11. 9/11 was just a wake up call for dumb shits like you.
2) This is not an American problem. This is a world wide problem and if you can

 

[Jhony5]

While that point is worthy of a debate, by itself, it does not answer my question, nor does it justify avoiding what evidence there is, that the type of plane specified, did not hit that building.

Its not just worthy of a debate, it is the debate.

The question is, did flight 77 crash into the Pentagon, or was it something else? I propose that if it did not, then where is the explanation for its whereabouts and the people aboard?

No doubt there are records of the flight. Why did none of the nineteen accused show up on any of those flight records, Jhony

ummmm...what? All 19 of the hijackers were shown and clearly documented as having bought the tickets with credit cards, went through security checkpoints at the airport (this is all on video), and boarded the planes. They are all clearly documented as having been aboard each of the four planes in question.

We have no plane, so it must have hit the Pentagon

There is no reason for one to think that large pieces of the plane would remain. Enough of it did survive, including parts of the landing gear, to identify it as a Boeing 757 passenger airliner. The heat from 20,000 gallons of jet grade fuel melted glass and steel over a 2 MILLION square foot area in and around the crash site.

Red herring, Mister.

You're not right. You posted a red herring. I thought you could debate.

Ahh the 'ol red hearing defense, huh? This will not suffice as an answer to my question.

Logic will dictate to us that a plane full of people does not "disappear" into thin air. There is absolutely no evidence that the plane or the people existed anywhere outside of the crash site in the Pentagon. There is however, evidence to the contrary.

I understand construction more than most here. I'm a builder, remember? If the nose-cone and fuselage of that jet managed to punch a fairly neat hole through several walls of reinforced concrete, what the **** happened to the densest, heaviest, most indestructible parts of that jet? Meaning the ****ing engines themselves?

I N E R T I A!!

At that speed, taking the mass of the object in question (A Boeing 757), very little of the plane and its various components would be expected to be found anywhere BUT deep inside of the structure.

Six tons of steel and titanium don't just bounce of the wall,

No they sure wouldn't. They would be the first parts to travel the furthest into the structure, placing them deep inside the incomprehensible heat of the ensuing incineration.

when the nose of the plane penetrated it almost to the back of the ****ing building

It appears you have answered your own supposition. Basic physics dictates this clearly to you. Don't believe me? Try throwing a 1/2 ounce rock as far as you can throw a one pound rock. It won't happen.

You already have, by avoiding the issues, and relying on emotional crapola, like, "what about the people"? What a crock of ****. What about some evidence, Mister??????

I wasn't bleeding from the heart, my friend, when I talked of the people. I was saying quite clearly, WHERE ARE THEY IF THEY DIDN'T INCINERATE INTO ASH? Like physically, what about the people? What about the plane that can be indisputably proven to have taken off from Washington Dulles airport with a nearly full tote of passengers, including 4 known Al-quida operatives?

 

[builder]

Its not just worthy of a debate, it is the debate.

No. It's one small part of the larger picture. I didn't settle on the Pentagon to argue the point. You did.

The question is, did flight 77 crash into the Pentagon, or was it something else? I propose that if it did not, then where is the explanation for its whereabouts and the people aboard?

It did not crash into the Pentagon. Where is it?

ummmm...what? All 19 of the hijackers were shown and clearly documented as having bought the tickets with credit cards, went through security checkpoints at the airport (this is all on video), and boarded the planes. They are all clearly documented as having been aboard each of the four planes in question.

Cite some reliable resource for this claim, Jhony5.

There is no reason for one to think that large pieces of the plane would remain. Enough of it did survive, including parts of the landing gear, to identify it as a Boeing 757 passenger airliner.

There is every reason to believe that sections of wings and tail would be scattered all over the Pentagon lawn. There wasn't. The grass wasn't even scorched. The cable rolls out front, adjacent to the entry hole weren't even touched. The wingspan of a 757 is how big again? The engines were about forty feet each side of the fuselage, but no sign of them hitting the building are apparent. That is the point that you are avoiding, Mister.

The heat from 20,000 gallons of jet grade fuel melted glass and steel over a 2 MILLION square foot area in and around the crash site.

Bullshit. Do you know what heat it takes to melt titanium? What ****ing melted glass? The windows above the entry hole were intact. Shouldn't they be melted, under your abstract view of the events?

Ahh the 'ol red hearing defense, huh? This will not suffice as an answer to my question.

You're avoiding the real issues. I am confronting them.

Logic will dictate to us that a plane full of people does not "disappear" into thin air.

Indeed, so they must have hit the Pentagon then? What a ****ing lost cause you are, Mister. Who knows what happened to them? But they sure as **** didn't see the Pentagon that day.

There is absolutely no evidence that the plane or the people existed anywhere outside of the crash site in the Pentagon.

There is absolutely no conclusive evidence that a jetliner hit the Pentagon that day. Offer some evidence, other than that they took off in a 757, and didn't land anywhere within America.

There is however, evidence to the contrary.

Post it. Please.

I N E R T I A!!

Inertia would result in three holes in the Pentagon. One in the middle, and two smaller holes either side. But we all know that is not the case, now, don't we?

At that speed, taking the mass of the object in question (A Boeing 757), very little of the plane and its various components would be expected to be found anywhere BUT deep inside of the structure.

Nothing about two Rolls Royce jet engines, each weighing about six tons? What happened to those engines, Jhonny5>>?????

No they sure wouldn't. They would be the first parts to travel the furthest into the structure, placing them deep inside the incomprehensible heat of the ensuing incineration.

So we agree on that one. Where are the entry holes for these massive pieces of indestructible machines?

It appears you have answered your own supposition. Basic physics dictates this clearly to you. Don't believe me? Try throwing a 1/2 ounce rock as far as you can throw a one pound rock. It won't happen.

You work for Popular mechanics. I can tell.

I wasn't bleeding from the heart, my friend, when I talked of the people. I was saying quite clearly, WHERE ARE THEY IF THEY DIDN'T INCINERATE INTO ASH? Like physically, what about the people?

What about the ****ing engines? Where are they?

What about the plane that can be indisputably proven to have taken off from Washington Dulles airport with a nearly full tote of passengers, including 4 known Al-quida operatives?

In Cuba maybe, or any of the CIA covert prisons in Europe. Who ****ing knows? What about the impact holes?

 

[Jhony5]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

Read this. Comprehend it. Shut the **** up. Put your tin hat in the trash.

I'm tired. Going to bed.

BUILDER = OWNT!

 

[builder]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

Read this. Comprehend it. Shut the **** up. Put your tin hat in the trash.

I'm tired. Going to bed.

BUILDER = OWNT!

Still not convinced. I see a generator that should have been totally destroyed if it was hit by a six ton jet engine.

 

[Jhony5]

Still not convinced. I see a generator that should have been totally destroyed if it was hit by a six ton jet engine.

I see dead people.

 

[builder]

I see dead people.

I do too. But tell me again that a six ton engine, made of titanium and high-carbon steel, travelling at 500 plus miles per hour, could hit a generator set, and leave a few dents. Tell me again. Please.

 

[snafu]

1)



So where is the 747 in this photo?

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pentagon/spencer/explosion-1.jpg

There isn't one. Were's the 747 in this photo?

.
The photos are from a surveillance camera. Not a high speed camera. The plane as you said is going 450 miles an hour. They could easly be missed in a frame.

Also the FBI has actual footage from a store across from the Pentagon apparantley of the Plane hitting it. If it really is a plane that hit, why don't you silence the rest of the smart and not close-minded world and SHOW US THE ****ING VIDEO!!

Oh and you contradicted yourself. You said they wouldn’t show the video. That video came out almost immediate. Maybe you were hoping there was another video.


And I've gone all threw your links before. You should take the time to check the ones I posted.

 

[snafu]

LOL!! ONLY that and the plane was a 747??

He asked a legitimate question. What happened to flt 77? Where are the passengers? Disappeared? Spirited away? You can

 

[snafu]

Still not convinced. I see a generator that should have been totally destroyed if it was hit by a six ton jet engine.

builder! like I told Hamza read the ****ing article.

Closeup of generator smashed in the front and gouged on the top - hard to image a missile accomplishing both of these. But if the right engine of a 757 hit the front of the generator, part of the wing could gouge the top. At the very least, something very large, and very heavy smashed into this extremely heavy desil generator.

.
You don't just totally destroy a generator of this size.

Bullshit. Do you know what heat it takes to melt titanium? What ****ing melted glass? The windows above the entry hole were intact. Shouldn't they be melted, under your abstract view of the events?

Builder the titanium parts are in the pictures. And the glass is BLAST PROOF! Guess what? They worked!

 

[Jhony5]

I do too. But tell me again that a six ton engine, made of titanium and high-carbon steel, travelling at 500 plus miles per hour, could hit a generator set, and leave a few dents. Tell me again. Please.

You will have to ask the generator that I suppose. Not exactly a bizarre happening. Obviously it did not suffer a direct impact. This is also likely what caused the plane to tilt several degrees to the left.

I'm trying to imagine the ungodly logistics behind a conspiracy at the pentagon disaster. With all the witnesses, rescue workers, and media converging on the site minutes after the impact. Its purely laughable to even suggest briefly, that the scene was staged and that flight 77 did not crash here, rather it was 'disposed' of mysteriously.

Its pure fantasy. A stubborn suggestion from anti-American, Muslim sympathizers.

 

[snafu]

You will have to ask the generator that I suppose. Not exactly a bizarre happening. Obviously it did not suffer a direct impact. This is also likely what caused the plane to tilt several degrees to the left.

I'm trying to imagine the ungodly logistics behind a conspiracy at the pentagon disaster. With all the witnesses, rescue workers, and media converging on the site minutes after the impact. Its purely laughable to even suggest briefly, that the scene was staged and that flight 77 did not crash here, rather it was 'disposed' of mysteriously.

Its pure fantasy. A stubborn suggestion from anti-American, Muslim sympathizers.

That

 

[Hamza123]

Oh and you contradicted yourself. You said they wouldn’t show the video. That video came out almost immediate. Maybe you were hoping there was another video.

Are you an idiot? Did you miss the link I POSTED from CNN?

BUILDER = OWNT!

Not EVEN in the least bit.

Way to ****ing declare yourself the winner. Just like the rest of your "kind" you go off and jump to conclusions. Just shows you ignorance and how you mix your emotions over "Everything America does is right".

You only want to make 9/11 seem like an Islamic Terrorist attack so you can justify all the bullshit your imperialistic ****ed up government administration is doing overseas.



I won't debate on this no more... All I need to do is this...

TRY and rip this... Just TRY.


http://www.seeloosechange.com