Intelligent design taught in our schools. Good or Bad

[phreakwars]

WASHINGTON - President Bush waded into the debate over evolution and "intelligent design" Monday, saying schools should teach both theories on the creation and complexity of life.


In a wide-ranging question-and-answer session with a small group of reporters, Bush essentially endorsed efforts by Christian conservatives to give intelligent design equal standing with the theory of evolution in the nation's schools.


On other topics, Bush said he has no idea how Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts would vote in a case challenging the legality of abortion because he never asked him about it. He also defended Baltimore Orioles first baseman Rafael Palmeiro, who was suspended Monday for using performance-enhancing steroids.


Bush declined to state his personal views on "intelligent design," the belief that life forms are so complex that their creation can't be explained by Darwinian evolutionary theory alone, but rather points to intentional creation, presumably divine.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12278497.htm for the rest of the story.
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[fullauto]

I don't have a problem teaching evolution, and then teaching intelligent design... Evolution has it's documentation and so does intelligent design... Most people would assume that I'm speaking about the bible and such... But I'm not

Sumerian tablets dating from 4500 bc tell a REALLY detailed tail of just how ONE of the gods designed man and why... Many of these tablets were dictated by THE GODS THEMSELVES! How people manage to be religious and not read these texts just baffles me, but what can ya do!

Everyone here knows that I have some rather unique world views, so I really have nothing to hide here... I'm very honest about how I feel and I honestly believe that that both evolution, and Intelligent design are factors in our arrival here on earth!

Sumerian texts tell us that 'the gods' were a group of people/aliens that came to earth for the purposes of mining gold called the Anunnaki... There were 12 main gods (number familiar?) and some 600 rank and file gods to work the machines in the mines.... after some time the 600 working gods revolted and took Enlil prisoner and would not let him go untill a solution had been found!

An immediate call was put out to Enki, the most wise of the gods, who announced after some time that he had found a solution! He had found a beast walking the plains fo subsaharan africa, that he could genetically modify into a primative worker... This beast was homoerectus...

Homoerectus evolved just like every thing else on the planet... But Enki 'put his mark' (dna) on him and created the first primative worker...

Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness!

I really don't have a problem with teaching intelligent design alongside evolution in school... but if you're going to do it, teach what the FIRST people had said concerning it.... not the mistranslated and convoluted versions of these texts we have now.... go to the source....

If you want a real quick rundown on what I just ranted about Click here

 

[phreakwars]

First of all, lets break down this article a bit .

Bush essentially endorsed efforts by Christian conservatives to give intelligent design equal standing with the theory of evolution in the nation's schools.

This is the perfect example of Liberal Media horse ****.

The person who wrote the story is obviously trying to make the issue a "CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE" issue.

I can agree with you 100% fullauto, that Inteligent Design should be taught in our schools, but from your own words comes the problem... What is the standard for Intelligent Design ?? Now, I could see a big fuss if Bush had said he supported the "CHRISTIANITY" Version of devine creation, that simply would not fly. But then, I highly doubt the concept of En'ki/Enllil could ever be accepted as a standard either, simply because people would not believe EVEN THAT no matter how true in theory it is presented.
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[fullauto]

True.... But I don't see the problem with teaching the Xtian version as long as it is coupled with other versions like Islam, Judeism, Hindu (one of my fav) and some others... I would guess that after a few years of this learning style, all versions, that people would realize that ALL of these religions have thier roots, one way or another, in Sumerian texts.... and since we have many of them and have translated most, we should learn our ROOTS... Learn what people had to say about god when GOD LIVED AMONG MAN! Those are the people that will give you insight into gods design... the ones who actually spoke to them/him.... It would all come out in the end...

 

[Vortex]

All theories should be taught in school. School is a place for students to make up their own mind. Yes even, gack, religeious theories shoudl be taught...as well as scientific ones.

Let the youth make up their own mind......otherwise we bring up drones and lemmings......our brains are meant to think for themselves and make its own reasonable deductions...

forcing opinions only causes damage!

 

[Komrade Vostok Hazard]

Anything of a divine/religious nature HAS NO PLACE in public schools. Those nutjobs brainwash enough people with their **** that they don't need to invade our public schools. Aliens? I don't believe that rubbish one bit. If they're going to teach about aliens, they might as well make our kids watch Sci-Fi movies all day.

 

[Crazywumbat]

I would support Fullauto's version of intelligent design being taught in school 100%. But the problem I see is this. Obviously you wouldn't want someone who believes in the evolution theory to teach this sort of subject, teachers from other religions (Islam, Judaism, Hindu, etc etc) are rather hard to come by, so in most cases you would ONLY see the Christian side of the creation theory. In my dealings, not saying in this is always the case in anyway at ALL, most people who follow the Creation theory, the obvious choice for those who would teach it, are much more close-minded then those who believe in evolution, or a coupling of the two. Thus they have a much more objective view of other beliefs than someone who believes in Evolution, or a coupling of the two. Now like I said, I know this is not ALWAYS the case, but it would be the case enough of the time to cause a problem in my thinking.

I also think its important to realize that most people know the creation theory of the predominant religion in their area before they even start attending school. My mother is agnostic, and my father is just barely Christian (by that I mean that you could spend weeks with him and never guess his faith), but I still new the Christian version of creation by the time I was in kindergarten. Also, most schools do have entire sections relating to the beliefs of certain religions. Greek/roman, Native America, Egyptian, Sumerian, Islamic and Judeo-Christian beliefs were all taught in the school I atended, including their various beliefs about creation, and from talking to family members, much of the same was also taught in their schools.

Most Junior High/Highschool teach the very basic of many of the worlds religious views and I think thats enough, once the person graduates and goes onto college, should they wish to learn more about the Intelligent design theories there are certainly many classes they could take to further their knowledge in that matter, and i think this would be a much more appropriate place and time for such subjects. However, like I originally said, as long as its comming from an open-minded, non-objective, teacher then I would not have any problem with such subjects being taught.

 

[Crazywumbat]

Anything of a divine/religious nature HAS NO PLACE in public schools. Those nutjobs brainwash enough people with their **** that they don't need to invade our public schools. Aliens? I don't believe that rubbish one bit. If they're going to teach about aliens, they might as well make our kids watch Sci-Fi movies all day.

Well each person is entitled to their own beliefs, but why ride off possibilites such as aliens so harshly?

As most people know I'm an Athiest, and I believe predominantly in big bag, evolution, etc. However, I always leave my mind open to other possibilites for the explanation of how we got here. There are, without exagerating in the slightest, an infinite amount of possibilites of how this world was formed, how life here has evolved, and what will happen to us after life. For anyone to ride out one possibility so harshly, or on the opposite end of the spectrum, for one to believe in one possibility so blindly and unquestioningly, then this, to me atleast, speaks of a serious lack of intelligence on their part. Thus being the main reason why I disagree with religions so strongly. And please Komrade, don't think for a second that I was calling you stupid or any such thing, I'm just saying that with an endless amount of possibilities, you shouldn't ride one off so harshly. Sorry to everyone for two posts, I would have edited this on to my previous one, but "I'm an Idiot."

 

[Komrade Vostok Hazard]

...I just think that stuff about the sumerian tablets and all that are some kind of ancient folklore, NOT scientific by any means, and as for the aliens, I think little green men that ride flying saucers only exist on Star Trek and in the imaginations of clinically insane conspiracy nuts and people who do a **** ton of drugs. Yes indeed possiblilites are endless, but maybe we should stick to stuff that is proven, rather than something that is supernatural and beyond belief or our knowledge, and especially staying away from subjects that are severly volitile-and not to mention preachy, such as religion.

 

[fullauto]

In whose image was The Adam

 

[phreakwars]

fullauto, I guess my question to you, is why would you even consider yourself a Satanist, when it seems to me, you are more of a Deist, Theologists, and general historian. If I have learned anything about you since you began GF, is that you don't follow a particular "theme" of a religious type.

Your version of creation always falls short when it comes to the idea of aliens. But I can believe Sumerian texts if the translation as well as the AGE of the text can be proven.

The nice thing about an age test on old scriptures and hieroglyphics, is it gives an exact period of "known intelligence and reasoning" in man. Sumerian text, to say the least, CAN be proven to be the oldest known "RECORDINGS" of man.

It could be ones speculation that an extra few genes were thrown into the mix somehow to evolve us into MAN.

I also find it VERY probable, that we in fact didn't need God's intervention to create life, after all, life in all its complexity, is but 4 letters of dna chemicals.

3 could have been found on earth when it was just a cooling down gas, maybe a comet containing that SECRET DNA #4 hit and caused LIFE as we know it. Sure, evolution, and creation of life explained in one easy lesson.

But, I have a very hard time accepting that an alien life form, I would "GUESS" operated on Adam, took a little DNA from his ribs, mixed in a little Alien jizz,and turned it into EVE.

But then, there is the question that dwells in my mind about creation in the bible. "WHO THE HELL WROTE GENESIS"??

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[phreakwars]

I found a very good site which shows answers to ALOT of "Intelligent Design" type teachings, great ****ing reading too if your into all this DEEP HISTORY **** like I am. Hell, it even talks about NIBIRU so some of you who are sceptic of what fullauto "preaches" can see the story behind it yourself.

http://www.earth-history.com/Generation.htm

Here is an interesting SNIP from the page:
"...The rich coastal city of Ugarit [destroyed in 1200 BC]...traded widely throughout the Fertile Crescent and across the Mediterranean....Ugarit's accountants used a twenty-six letter cuneiform alphabet, an invention that would take writing out of the atmosphere of the ancient temples, away from the sacred obscurities of pictographs into a secular, demotic script which people of many different nations could easily adapt. This was a direct forerunner of modern Western alphabets as well as biblical Hebrew."

"Its literature was Canaanite and it is the traditions of that society that influenced the Old Testament. Even so, the scribes of Ugarit well knew of the city Jerusalem and its nearby holy Mount Zion; for the hill was known by that same name, which in Ugaritic Canaanite means 'the seat of a god'.

Many Old Testament characters, too, have typically Canaanite names: Absalom and Solomon even hold in them the name of the Canaanite god of the evening star, Solom, just as does the name of Jerusalem itself. That numerous biblical terms for the articles of daily life, for clothes, perfumes and furniture were also Ugaritic, emphasizes the fact that this influence was not only linguistic but extended into the paraphernalia of daily life."

And here is a link to the whole En'lil/En'ki thing in Sumerian clay: http://www.earth-history.com/Clay-tablets.htm#MS%202426

And to think that ****ing teachers won't let kids on GF, Look how EDUCATIONAL this ****ing website is !!​

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[Msixty]

give the students a choice of history and sciences of human evolution/creation? i mean make separate classes for both and allow the students to choose the one they want to go to, that would still come under heavy fire, but its a start

 

[Thermite Wielding Troll]

Alright, time to school the children....

Intelligent Design has NO religious leaning. All it is is the use of empiricism, logic, and mathematics to show that evolution is not a reasonable answer. It is NOT an argument from ignorance: "Oh, we don't know how it could have evovled, so it didn't"; or an appeal to religion: "But God said"...

I believe ID is correct. But I also believe it should NOT be taught in schools. I believe Evolutionism shouldn't be, either. They are both metaphysical principles, though ID would provide a useful approach, unlike Evolution.

Evolution yields nothing useful. Continually wasting time redrawing phylogenies with stretched out patchworks of "evidence" whose implications continually shift as more is learned does nothing for biology. Yet there is a whole class of ignorant asshole who pose as Erudites saying that Evolution is the very core and purpose of biology. Nothing in biology makes sense without Evolution, they say. This is like saying a made up history of vacuum tubes is necessary to the understanding of CPU design. Bullshit.

Evolution's predictions have been useless, pointless, and, at times, destructive.

First, the harmless kind: "Oh, we're guessing this turned into this, so we will eventually find a creature with this feature; and here it is, we found it!". Oh, well I predict that because the pickup evolved from the car, we should find something with a partial pickup bed....And I found it! The El Camino! Nevermind that it's older than both lineages it's supposed to bridge, and didn't evolve at all but was designed by humans.

Second, the pointless: "Well, we can't figure out what this part of the genome does, so it must be evolutionary waste". Fact: There is no junk DNA. Assume design, you would have known this from the start.

Last, the destructive kind: "Well, we can't figure out what these parts do, so they must be remainders from our evolutionary heritage. We can safely remove them" Fact: There are no vestigial organs. The appendix, tonsils, etc. all have a use. People used to remove people's ****ing tailbones because of this backwards bullshit.

Evolution adds nothing, it only leeches off the fields of knowledge that Evolutionists falsley claim it represents.

 

[fullauto]

though I don't agree with you, that is one of the most well thought out arguments for intelligent design I've heard in a long time... maybe you can teach builder to make valid points...

 

[fullauto]

fullauto, I guess my question to you, is why would you even consider yourself a Satanist, when it seems to me, you are more of a Deist, Theologists, and general historian. If I have learned anything about you since you began GF, is that you don't follow a particular "theme" of a religious type.

I am a Philosophical satanist, not a religious one... I believe that the archetype for satan (adversary) was based on the polar opposite older brother of an ancient 'god' named enlil... The two brothers fought to no end about what to do with humans, and how to treat them....

Enlil (Yahweh), Hier to the thrown but younger than Enki (achetyple satan), tried MANY times to wipe humans off the face of the planet... He used disease, pestulance, starvation, and finally, he refused to help man when it became clear that a shift in the ice cap would casue a huge deluge in the form of tsunami...

He finally agreed to let humans live on earth because he new that the gods would not be staying, this is the covenent between man and god after the flood... But, his idea to 'keep man in check' (man has become one of us!) was to institute a monotheistic religion based on him to keep man from learning too much, and challenging his authority!

Enki (Satan) from the beginning of man's entrance to this world was always a big fan of man... He taught man to grow food rather than hunt, taught him hygene, math, cosmology, and just about everything that came out of civilized man's world... The things Enki has done for man could fill up a thread by itself! His major struggle with enlil was that He believe that since man was part 'god' that he desearved to not be kept as slaves in servitude to the gods... He wanted man to flurish, and to become what it is that man will be... Enki believe that man was destined for greatness, if only he could wrestle control away from enlil and give man the secrets of the heavens.... Enlil resisted bitterly, and being the hier, he eventually won... But both the bible and sumerian texts say that the struggle for the hearts and minds of man is still being waged to this day....

This black robe bullshit that people think about satanism I call commercial satanism... It's just a way for anxed teen to rebel and be different... True satanism is NOT a religion but a way of life.... more like a philosophy... It teaches you that YOU are the god rather than someone else, even enki, being the god... it teaches that knowlege is power and the ultimate goal of ALL men is the attainment of knowlege and truth... Enki was the Chief scientist for the anunnaki... his brother enlil was a spoiled brat with very little learning... and enki saw the problems that was enlil's plan to keep man in the dark... He new, through the genetic engineering of adapa, that man was capable of just as much as the gods, but just had a shorter life span... But with time, and learning, man would eventually learn to increase his life span through genetics/eugenics...

why am I a satanist... because satanism is about not being spoon fed the truth and not questioning its validity... It's about determining truth for yourself and testing that truth continually to make sure it is still truth...

modern religion is about being told who and what you are, and then just accepting it as gospel and never questioning it.... hardly a good way to advance humanity.... but then again... that's exactly what Yahweh wants... keep the competition in the dark...

Lucifer (aka Enki) means 'bearer of light and illumination'... hardly sounds like he's a big red dude with a pitch fork and a damned soul...

I hope this answers your question

 

[phreakwars]

Oh I never said ANYTHING about the "stereotype" devil, I am referring to worship. You don't seem to worship ANYTHING really, just proclaim who was the better God of the 2. Treating them more like the AFC .vs NFC. Which to me is more acceptable then bowing down before ANYBODY !!
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[Komrade Vostok Hazard]

Just a Question about Satanism:

I read something about satanism that stated that it involved NO supernatural/divine beings, but rather that "Satan" is a force of nature, and they tend to believe in principles such as "Indulgance" rather than "abstinance"

Is this bullshit?

 

[Crazywumbat]

Just a Question about Satanism:

I read something about satanism that stated that it involved NO supernatural/divine beings, but rather that "Satan" is a force of nature, and they tend to believe in principles such as "Indulgance" rather than "abstinance"

Is this bullshit?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis1.htm

The nine Satanic statements: These form the core of the Church of Satan beliefs. They were written by Anton LaVey. In abridged form, they state that Satan represents:
Indulgence, not abstinence.
Vital existence, not spiritual pipe dreams.
Undefiled wisdom, not hypocritical self-deceit.
Kindness to those deserving of it, not love wasted on ingrates.
Vengeance, not turning the other cheek.
Responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires.
Man as just another animal - the most vicious of all.
Gratification of all ones desires.
The best friend that the Christian Church has had as he has kept it in business for centuries.

What you said sounds more like the Church of Satan. I might be wrong, but I believe fullauto follows a somewhat different view of Satanism.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

I've got a fantastic idea! Ask the ****ing students what they want to learn! Kids now-a-days are a lot more informed than my generation and the previous, they know what they want to do better than some stuffed shirt legislator or a group of assholes on an internet forum. Let the children decide for themselves... if half want to learn about evolution let 'em... if the other half wants to learn about creationism... let 'em.

I spent, what felt like, an eternity sitting in my desk wondering "What the **** use will algebra do me in the future?". Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero. I have not used it to this day, but I have applied every ****ing vocational skill I learned after graduation.

The only thing that interested me aside from working with my hands, was History. A lot of ****ing good it did me, too.