Is it constitutional?

[phreakwars]

And no, I have never, got more back from the government than I have paid in.

Not ever? Yeah, I'd like to see a PDF copy of your income tax returns to prove that one.

And what exactly is wrong with giving back more then what people have paid in, and giving it to the lower income types?

I mean, what are THEY gonna do with that Earned Income Credit bonus they get for taking care of their family at a substantially lower wage then others?

EIC (YOU KNOW, Credit's for earning income and raising a family) is getting back more then you paid in, the very thing you disapprove of, yet it puts money in the pocket of the living paycheck to paycheck crowd so they can go out and buy that new big screen, or that new x-box for the kids, pay down some of that debt, stimulate the economy instead of just squeeking by off the basics, they put some extra cash back into the capitalist system, and every damn bit of it is socialism. Taking from the have's and giving it to the have nots.

I look at it this way. Let's say you only make $20,000 or maybe $25k a year, you got 2 kids and a wife, you make it on your own, you pay your taxes, and come tax season, you get a bonus from the government in addition to what you make in wages because you are getting back more then you paid in on taxes, simply because you have a child or 2.

So basically, your saying a person in that scenario... and there are MILLIONS of them... should not get that kind of income boostr stimulus every year. Do I have that correct?
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[ImWithStupid]

Not ever? Yeah, I'd like to see a PDF copy of your income tax returns to prove that one.

And what exactly is wrong with giving back more then what people have paid in, and giving it to the lower income types?

I mean, what are THEY gonna do with that Earned Income Credit bonus they get for taking care of their family at a substantially lower wage then others?

EIC (YOU KNOW, Credit's for earning income and raising a family) is getting back more then you paid in, the very thing you disapprove of, yet it puts money in the pocket of the living paycheck to paycheck crowd so they can go out and buy that new big screen, or that new x-box for the kids, pay down some of that debt, stimulate the economy instead of just squeeking by off the basics, they put some extra cash back into the capitalist system, and every damn bit of it is socialism. Taking from the have's and giving it to the have nots.

I look at it this way. Let's say you only make $20,000 or maybe $25k a year, you got 2 kids and a wife, you make it on your own, you pay your taxes, and come tax season, you get a bonus from the government in addition to what you make in wages because you are getting back more then you paid in on taxes, simply because you have a child or 2.

So basically, your saying a person in that scenario... and there are MILLIONS of them... should not get that kind of income boostr stimulus every year. Do I have that correct?
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Yes. Never in my life have I not paid in more to the government than I received back in a return.

What's wrong with it is, it shouldn't be called EIC, it should be called welfare and it obviously means those who get back more than they pay in, are irresponsible sponges who shouldn't be breeding if they can't pay for their brood.

History has proven it just gives legitimacy to welfare queens and generational social parasites.

I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. ~ Benjamin Franklin

There is a class system in the US and welfare and social programs do noting but make sure there is a constant poor who rely on the government.

 

[phreakwars]

Now who says they can't pay for their brood? Last I checked, people on welfare don't file tax returns, thus do not get EIC. The credit goes to people who work, support a family, probably buy their own insurance, probably have a home mortgage, and your calling them welfare queens? Poor?

That's hilarious. Last I knew of, the income guidelines go up to like $34,000 or something (I wouldn't know for sure, I don't qualify either, I make too much), and people are credited up to 2 kids whether married or single. Those are your welfare queens?

Yeah, you go right ahead and keep on campaigning for people to end the tax credits they get. I have no problem with it personally because it wouldn't apply to me, but it would be funny as hell watching Republicans (not idiotic tea baggers) all for giving up their socialism.

Just as funny as watching Republicans say "KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE".
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[ImWithStupid]

Now who says they can't pay for their brood? Last I checked, people on welfare don't file tax returns, thus do not get EIC. The credit goes to people who work, support a family, probably buy their own insurance, probably have a home mortgage, and your calling them welfare queens? Poor?

That's hilarious. Last I knew of, the income guidelines go up to like $34,000 or something (I wouldn't know for sure, I don't qualify either, I make too much), and people are credited up to 2 kids whether married or single. Those are your welfare queens?

Yeah, you go right ahead and keep on campaigning for people to end the tax credits they get. I have no problem with it personally because it wouldn't apply to me, but it would be funny as hell watching Republicans (not idiotic tea baggers) all for giving up their socialism.

Just as funny as watching Republicans say "KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE".
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Try to justify it any way you want. If you get back more than you pay in, it isn't "earned", It's welfare, and if a person is getting said welfare, they obviously can't support themselves and their brood or are just another parasite sucking on the government teet.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

I have not received a refund on my income tax since 1997. I do not believe in giving the government a loan on money that I earn until they come knocking. Let the little children, welfare queens, and other parasites wait a while before my wealth is redistributed.

If my business continues to profit, I might be kicked up to higher tax bracket. If I make $250K this year I will be a criminal.

 

[phreakwars]

Try to justify it any way you want. If you get back more than you pay in, it isn't "earned", It's welfare, and if a person is getting said welfare, they obviously can't support themselves and their brood or are just another parasite sucking on the government teet.

Like I said, I would REALLY LOVE to see Republicans try and convince fellow Republicans who are in that credit bracket to give up their hand out.. I'd laugh my ass off if the EIC credit was taken away. Guarantee you the first thing that would happen, is someone (more then likely a right winger), will say removing those credits, is a tax increase on the working class.

Your completely talking tea bagger and you know it. And I still don't believe you about your tax returns.. what, never claimed your daughter? Or was it that your ex ole lady does, so you can squeek by and claim to have never have taken the credits? Yeah, I know how this is, you ain't fooling me for a second. Too many Puritan tea baggers don't live up to their own purity test to be taken serious. I doubt your the exception.
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[ImWithStupid]

Like I said, I would REALLY LOVE to see Republicans try and convince fellow Republicans who are in that credit bracket to give up their hand out.. I'd laugh my ass off if the IEC credit was taken away. Guarantee you the first thing that would happen, is someone (more then likely a right winger), will say removing those credits, is a tax increase on the working class.

Your completely talking tea bagger and you know it. And I still don't believe you about your tax returns.. what, never claimed your daughter? Or was it that your ex ole lady does, so you can squeek by and claim to have never have taken the credits? Yeah, I know how this is, you ain't fooling me for a second. Too many Puritan tea baggers don't live up to the purity test to be taken serious. I doubt your the exception.
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I could care less who did it, Republican, Democrat, Independent, the tax code, welfare, and social security, medicare/medicaid systems need to be changed. We can't afford them, nor can we keep going like we are.

As for my tax return, yes I claim one of my children and get the child tax credit, my ex claims the other one, I don't take the EIC, and wouldn't qualify if I wanted to (because I didn't breed past what I can support, myself), I still end up paying in more than I get back. Even in 2008 when the federal government sent me $900 in a supposed "stimulus" check, I was in the positive taxpayer category. I honestly don't care what credits, people take, but as soon as the money returned is more than money paid in, it's welfare and is a liability.

I could care less if you believe me, I know the truth because it's my money.

 

[phreakwars]

yes I claim one of my children and get the child tax credit

Credit is NOT money you have paid in, if you owe no tax, then taking this on your return gives you money that you did not pay into the system. It is exactly what it says it is... a CREDIT. Therefore, even without the EIC credit, you STILL took a socialist child tax credit. Yet another puritan who can't pass the purity test. Your a damn welfare case like everyone else you wanna slam who are taking credits.

As for you paying in still, it doesn't matter, your taking socialist money in the form of credit to reduce your debt to the government. Just because someone else can take that same credit and get a better return doesn't mean they aren't just as entitled as you are.. I detect a bit of jealousy.
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[ImWithStupid]

Credit is NOT money you have paid in, if you owe no tax, then taking this on your return gives you money that you did not pay into the system. It is exactly what it says it is... a CREDIT. Therefore, even without the EIC credit, you STILL took a socialist child tax credit. Yet another puritan who can't pass the purity test. Your a damn welfare case like everyone else you wanna slam who are taking credits.

As for you paying in still, it doesn't matter, your taking socialist money in the form of credit to reduce your debt to the government. Just because someone else can take that same credit and get a better return doesn't mean they aren't just as entitled as you are.. I detect a bit of jealousy.
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I didn't say people shouldn't take advantage of the tax code. I said the tax system needs to be changed so everyone has a stake in it. A lower end of 11% sounds fair, with no deductions or credits.

It doesn't matter how much you pay, my point is, that anything that you get back, in excess of what you paid in, is welfare and should be called welfare.

Calling it "earned" is BS. It isn't earned if it's someone else's money. Using these terms, let people feel good about taking welfare.

 

[phreakwars]

Anything you can enter on lines 29-33 of your form 1040a, is welfare. As is line 41a-43. Another case of "ONLY YOU CAN PREVENT SOCIALISM" by NOT taking those welfare credits.
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[ImWithStupid]

Anything you can enter on lines 29-33 of your form 1040a, is welfare. As is line 41a-43. Another case of "ONLY YOU CAN PREVENT SOCIALISM" by NOT taking those welfare credits.
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Sorry. It's not welfare until it's money given to you, not your own money back.

 

[phreakwars]

Sorry, but it is NOT your own money back and I'll tell you why... Because EVERYBODY who has paid to have their child in day care or has paid a sitter, can take the credit.

Your only thinking of your own income level. What about people with a lower income then you? You know... the welfare queens who actually get a refund? Obviously, if they are due a refund, then chances are, they will get back all they have paid in, save for a couple hundred bucks... at what, $1000 a kid, you'll cross over into socialism territory with one swift deduction. Just because all it is doing for you is reducing your debt, doesn't make it any less of a socialist credit.

If you owed someone $100, and I gave you $60 to pay down the debt, you still owe the debt, and it is still a hand out even though it's still costing you $40 to pay it.
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[ImWithStupid]

Sorry, but it is NOT your own money back and I'll tell you why... Because EVERYBODY who has paid to have their child in day care or has paid a sitter, can take the credit.

Your only thinking of your own income level. What about people with a lower income then you? You know... the welfare queens who actually get a refund? Obviously, if they are due a refund, then chances are, they will get back all they have paid in, save for a couple hundred bucks... at what, $1000 a kid, you'll cross over into socialism territory with one swift deduction. Just because all it is doing for you is reducing your debt, doesn't make it any less of a socialist credit.

You aren't listening to what I'm saying. I understand that people claim these credits. Great, awesome, until the tax code changes, bully for them.

What I am saying is that any amount that you get back, beyond the amount that you paid in (the part that was your earned property), is welfare and should be labeled what it is.

If you owed someone $100, and I gave you $60 to pay down the debt, you still owe the debt, and it is still a hand out even though it's still costing you $40 to pay it.
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No. Once you are allowed the credit, you no longer "owe" that amount. That's why I say get rid of all credits and adjust the tax liability so everyone pays something.

Flat tax, with a few different levels. That way everybody has a vested interest. I agree that the more you make, the more you should pay, but don't agree that anyone should be able to through life, never contributing because they are given welfare in the form of a "refund".

 

[RoyalOrleans]

“We have constructed a governmental welfare scheme, which has been a machine for producing poor people.” - Milton Friedman

 

[eddo]

I also have never received back more than what I paid in.

A couple years while I was working part time while in college I got back all that I had paid into the Federal Income Tax, but never got more than what I had paid in.


and I don't like giving the Gov't a loan on my money, but I sure do like that rebate check at the end of the year for my overpayments. If I was better at just saving my monies all year, I would do like RO does.

 

[snafu]

Can you do that? Make a profit from paying taxes? That would be a new one on me. I get a return because I pay more than I'm supposed to. I claim 0 so they take more out. It's my money I'm getting back Phreak.