Israelis 'blew apart Syrian nuclear cache' - Secret F-15I raid on North Korean shipment

A

AirRaid

Guest
Yea North Korea shutting down their nuclear program so innocently?
Nope, they are proliferating, and I guarantee Syria isn't the only
place that got some from Kim Jong Mentally Il. Bombing this secret
nuke stash in Syria was pretty easy too. Iran will be next!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2461421.ece

>From The Sunday Times

September 16, 2007

Israelis 'blew apart Syrian nuclear cache'
Secret raid on Korean shipment

IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is
crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria's formidable air
defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from
the Iraqi border was under way.

At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team
was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the
approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up
position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in
flames.

Ten days after the jets reached home, their mission was the focus of
intense speculation this weekend amid claims that Israel believed it
had destroyed a cache of nuclear materials from North Korea.

The Israeli government was not saying. "The security sources and IDF
[Israeli Defence Forces] soldiers are demonstrating unusual courage,"
said Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. "We naturally cannot always show
the public our cards."

The Syrians were also keeping mum. "I cannot reveal the details," said
Farouk al-Sharaa, the vice-president. "All I can say is the military
and political echelon is looking into a series of responses as we
speak. Results are forthcoming." The official story that the target
comprised weapons destined for Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Lebanese
Shi'ite group, appeared to be crumbling in the face of widespread
scepticism.

Andrew Semmel, a senior US State Department official, said Syria might
have obtained nuclear equipment from "secret suppliers", and added
that there were a "number of foreign technicians" in the country.

Asked if they could be North Korean, he replied: "There are North
Korean people there. There's no question about that." He said a
network run by AQ Khan, the disgraced creator of Pakistan's nuclear
weapons, could be involved.

But why would nuclear material be in Syria? Known to have chemical
weapons, was it seeking to bolster its arsenal with something even
more deadly?

Alternatively, could it be hiding equipment for North Korea, enabling
Kim Jong-il to pretend to be giving up his nuclear programme in
exchange for economic aid? Or was the material bound for Iran, as some
authorities in America suggest?

According to Israeli sources, preparations for the attack had been
going on since late spring, when Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad,
presented Olmert with evidence that Syria was seeking to buy a nuclear
device from North Korea.

The Israeli spy chief apparently feared such a device could eventually
be installed on North-Korean-made Scud-C missiles.

"This was supposed to be a devastating Syrian surprise for Israel,"
said an Israeli source. "We've known for a long time that Syria has
deadly chemical warheads on its Scuds, but Israel can't live with a
nuclear warhead."

An expert on the Middle East, who has spoken to Israeli participants
in the raid, told yesterday's Washington Post that the timing of the
raid on September 6 appeared to be linked to the arrival three days
earlier of a ship carrying North Korean material labelled as cement
but suspected of concealing nuclear equipment.

The target was identified as a northern Syrian facility that purported
to be an agricultural research centre on the Euphrates river. Israel
had been monitoring it for some time, concerned that it was being used
to extract uranium from phosphates.

According to an Israeli air force source, the Israeli satellite Ofek
7, launched in June, was diverted from Iran to Syria. It sent out
high-
quality images of a northeastern area every 90 minutes, making it easy
for air force specialists to spot the facility.

Early in the summer Ehud Barak, the defence minister, had given the
order to double Israeli forces on its Golan Heights border with Syria
in anticipation of possible retaliation by Damascus in the event of
air strikes.

Sergei Kirpichenko, the Russian ambassador to Syria, warned President
Bashar al-Assad last month that Israel was planning an attack, but
suggested the target was the Golan Heights.

Israeli military intelligence sources claim Syrian special forces
moved towards the Israeli outpost of Mount Hermon on the Golan
Heights. Tension rose, but nobody knew why.

At this point, Barak feared events could spiral out of control. The
decision was taken to reduce the number of Israeli troops on the Golan
Heights and tell Damascus the tension was over. Syria relaxed its
guard shortly before the Israeli Defence Forces struck.

Only three Israeli cabinet ministers are said to have been in the know
? Olmert, Barak and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister. America was
also consulted. According to Israeli sources, American air force codes
were given to the Israeli air force attach=E9 in Washington to ensure
Israel's F15Is would not mistakenly attack their US counterparts.

Once the mission was under way, Israel imposed draconian military
censorship and no news of the operation emerged until Syria complained
that Israeli aircraft had violated its airspace. Syria claimed its air
defences had engaged the planes, forcing them to drop fuel tanks to
lighten their loads as they fled.

But intelligence sources suggested it was a highly successful Israeli
raid on nuclear material supplied by North Korea.

Washington was rife with speculation last week about the precise
nature of the operation. One source said the air strikes were a
diversion for a daring Israeli commando raid, in which nuclear
materials were intercepted en route to Iran and hauled to Israel.
Others claimed they were destroyed in the attack.

There is no doubt, however, that North Korea is accused of nuclear
cooperation with Syria, helped by AQ Khan's network. John Bolton, who
was undersecretary for arms control at the State Department, told the
United Nations in 2004 the Pakistani nuclear scientist had "several
other" customers besides Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Some of his evidence came from the CIA, which had reported to Congress
that it viewed "Syrian nuclear intentions with growing concern".

"I've been worried for some time about North Korea and Iran
outsourcing their nuclear programmes," Bolton said last week. Syria,
he added, was a member of a "junior axis of evil", with a well-
established ambition to develop weapons of mass destruction.

The links between Syria and North Korea date back to the rule of Kim
Il-sung and President Hafez al-Assad in the last century. In recent
months, their sons have quietly ordered an increase in military and
technical cooperation.

Foreign diplomats who follow North Korean affairs are taking note.
There were reports of Syrian passengers on flights from Beijing to
Pyongyang and sightings of Middle Eastern businessmen from sources who
watch the trains from North Korea to China.

On August 14, Rim Kyong Man, the North Korean foreign trade minister,
was in Syria to sign a protocol on "cooperation in trade and science
and technology". No details were released, but it caught Israel's
attention.

Syria possesses between 60 and 120 Scud-C missiles, which it has
bought from North Korea over the past 15 years. Diplomats believe
North Korean engineers have been working on extending their 300-mile
range. It means they can be used in the deserts of northeastern Syria
? the area of the Israeli strike.

The triangular relationship between North Korea, Syria and Iran
continues to perplex intelligence analysts. Syria served as a conduit
for the transport to Iran of an estimated =A350m of missile components
and technology sent by sea from North Korea. The same route may be in
use for nuclear equipment.

But North Korea is at a sensitive stage of negotiations to end its
nuclear programme in exchange for security guarantees and aid, leading
some diplomats to cast doubt on the likelihood that Kim would cross
America's "red line" forbidding the proliferation of nuclear
materials.

Christopher Hill, the State Department official representing America
in the talks, said on Friday he could not confirm "intelligence-type
things", but the reports underscored the need "to make sure the North
Koreans get out of the nuclear business".

By its actions, Israel showed it is not interested in waiting for
diplomacy to work where nuclear weapons are at stake.

As a bonus, the Israelis proved they could penetrate the Syrian air
defence system, which is stronger than the one protecting Iranian
nuclear sites.

This weekend President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran sent Ali Akbar
Mehrabian, his nephew, to Syria to assess the damage. The new "axis of
evil" may have lost one of its spokes.
 
On Sep 16, 8:27 am, AirRaid <airraid1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article246142...
>
>From The Sunday Times

--------------------------------------
This story is pure BS! "THE SUNDAY TIMES" of London is owned by
Rupert Murdock and has become a propaganda rag for the Israeli
Government. Rupert Murdock was a top cheerleader for the illegal
Iraq war that has turned out so well, and now he is cheerleading for a
new war against Syria and Iran. This is Jewish propaganda, and
Murdock is Jewish. Murdock's mother was Jewish and a rabid Zionist,
and that makes little Rupert Jewish and a rabid Zionist. He is one of
the stealth Jews in the US media and in our own government who try to
influence our policies for Israeli, not American, interests.

Another propaganda story is being peddled by former Federal Reserve
Chairman Alan Greenspan. Greenspan is trying to say that the Iraq war
was fought for oil, which is false. The Iraq war was fought for
Israel, and his own wife, NBC News correspondent Andrea Mitchell,
helped brainwash the American public to go along with this illegal
Jewish concocted attack. Paul Wolfowitz and his cabal of Jews in the
Pentagon planned the war and promoted it with the help of many Jews,
such as Rupert Murdock, Matt Drudge, Andrea Mitchell, Wolf Blitzer,
Richard Perle, Dick Morris, William Kristol, etc. This war was and is
a Jewish-Zionist war, not an American war.

Don't believe the Jewish lies! Our real war is between the CULT of
ZIONISM and the American people. Zionists are not Americans, and they
want to destroy America and all it is supposed to stand for to save
their illegal cult commune known as "Israel." Jews largely only care
about other Jews, and that is not the American way. ONE NATION UNDER
ZIONISM is what we have become, and our fake democracy had better wake
up and realize we are a captive, controlled nation.

IB
 
On Sep 16, 12:27 pm, AirRaid <airraid1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea North Korea shutting down their nuclear program so innocently?
> Nope, they are proliferating, and I guarantee Syria isn't the only
> place that got some from Kim Jong Mentally Il. Bombing this secret
> nuke stash in Syria was pretty easy too. Iran will be next!
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article246142...
>
> >From The Sunday Times

>
> September 16, 2007
>
> Israelis 'blew apart Syrian nuclear cache'
> Secret raid on Korean shipment
>
> IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is
> crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria's formidable air
> defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from
> the Iraqi border was under way.
>
> At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team
> was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the
> approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up
> position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in
> flames.
>
> Ten days after the jets reached home, their mission was the focus of
> intense speculation this weekend amid claims that Israel believed it
> had destroyed a cache of nuclear materials from North Korea.
>
> The Israeli government was not saying. "The security sources and IDF
> [Israeli Defence Forces] soldiers are demonstrating unusual courage,"
> said Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. "We naturally cannot always show
> the public our cards."
>
> The Syrians were also keeping mum. "I cannot reveal the details," said
> Farouk al-Sharaa, the vice-president. "All I can say is the military
> and political echelon is looking into a series of responses as we
> speak. Results are forthcoming." The official story that the target
> comprised weapons destined for Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Lebanese
> Shi'ite group, appeared to be crumbling in the face of widespread
> scepticism.
>
> Andrew Semmel, a senior US State Department official, said Syria might
> have obtained nuclear equipment from "secret suppliers", and added
> that there were a "number of foreign technicians" in the country.
>
> Asked if they could be North Korean, he replied: "There are North
> Korean people there. There's no question about that." He said a
> network run by AQ Khan, the disgraced creator of Pakistan's nuclear
> weapons, could be involved.
>
> But why would nuclear material be in Syria? Known to have chemical
> weapons, was it seeking to bolster its arsenal with something even
> more deadly?
>
> Alternatively, could it be hiding equipment for North Korea, enabling
> Kim Jong-il to pretend to be giving up his nuclear programme in
> exchange for economic aid? Or was the material bound for Iran, as some
> authorities in America suggest?
>
> According to Israeli sources, preparations for the attack had been
> going on since late spring, when Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad,
> presented Olmert with evidence that Syria was seeking to buy a nuclear
> device from North Korea.
>
> The Israeli spy chief apparently feared such a device could eventually
> be installed on North-Korean-made Scud-C missiles.
>
> "This was supposed to be a devastating Syrian surprise for Israel,"
> said an Israeli source. "We've known for a long time that Syria has
> deadly chemical warheads on its Scuds, but Israel can't live with a
> nuclear warhead."
>
> An expert on the Middle East, who has spoken to Israeli participants
> in the raid, told yesterday's Washington Post that the timing of the
> raid on September 6 appeared to be linked to the arrival three days
> earlier of a ship carrying North Korean material labelled as cement
> but suspected of concealing nuclear equipment.
>
> The target was identified as a northern Syrian facility that purported
> to be an agricultural research centre on the Euphrates river. Israel
> had been monitoring it for some time, concerned that it was being used
> to extract uranium from phosphates.
>
> According to an Israeli air force source, the Israeli satellite Ofek
> 7, launched in June, was diverted from Iran to Syria. It sent out
> high-
> quality images of a northeastern area every 90 minutes, making it easy
> for air force specialists to spot the facility.
>
> Early in the summer Ehud Barak, the defence minister, had given the
> order to double Israeli forces on its Golan Heights border with Syria
> in anticipation of possible retaliation by Damascus in the event of
> air strikes.
>
> Sergei Kirpichenko, the Russian ambassador to Syria, warned President
> Bashar al-Assad last month that Israel was planning an attack, but
> suggested the target was the Golan Heights.
>
> Israeli military intelligence sources claim Syrian special forces
> moved towards the Israeli outpost of Mount Hermon on the Golan
> Heights. Tension rose, but nobody knew why.
>
> At this point, Barak feared events could spiral out of control. The
> decision was taken to reduce the number of Israeli troops on the Golan
> Heights and tell Damascus the tension was over. Syria relaxed its
> guard shortly before the Israeli Defence Forces struck.
>
> Only three Israeli cabinet ministers are said to have been in the know
> ? Olmert, Barak and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister. America was
> also consulted. According to Israeli sources, American air force codes
> were given to the Israeli air force attach=E9 in Washington to ensure
> Israel's F15Is would not mistakenly attack their US counterparts.
>
> Once the mission was under way, Israel imposed draconian military
> censorship and no news of the operation emerged until Syria complained
> that Israeli aircraft had violated its airspace. Syria claimed its air
> defences had engaged the planes, forcing them to drop fuel tanks to
> lighten their loads as they fled.
>
> But intelligence sources suggested it was a highly successful Israeli
> raid on nuclear material supplied by North Korea.
>
> Washington was rife with speculation last week about the precise
> nature of the operation. One source said the air strikes were a
> diversion for a daring Israeli commando raid, in which nuclear
> materials were intercepted en route to Iran and hauled to Israel.
> Others claimed they were destroyed in the attack.
>
> There is no doubt, however, that North Korea is accused of nuclear
> cooperation with Syria, helped by AQ Khan's network. John Bolton, who
> was undersecretary for arms control at the State Department, told the
> United Nations in 2004 the Pakistani nuclear scientist had "several
> other" customers besides Iran, Libya and North Korea.
>
> Some of his evidence came from the CIA, which had reported to Congress
> that it viewed "Syrian nuclear intentions with growing concern".
>
> "I've been worried for some time about North Korea and Iran
> outsourcing their nuclear programmes," Bolton said last week. Syria,
> he added, was a member of a "junior axis of evil", with a well-
> established ambition to develop weapons of mass destruction.
>
> The links between Syria and North Korea date back to the rule of Kim
> Il-sung and President Hafez al-Assad in the last century. In recent
> months, their sons have quietly ordered an increase in military and
> technical cooperation.
>
> Foreign diplomats who follow North Korean affairs are taking note.
> There were reports of Syrian passengers on flights from Beijing to
> Pyongyang and sightings of Middle Eastern businessmen from sources who
> watch the trains from North Korea to China.
>
> On August 14, Rim Kyong Man, the North Korean foreign trade minister,
> was in Syria to sign a protocol on "cooperation in trade and science
> and technology". No details were released, but it caught Israel's
> attention.
>
> Syria possesses between 60 and 120 Scud-C missiles, which it has
> bought from North Korea over the past 15 years. Diplomats believe
> North Korean engineers have been working on extending their 300-mile
> range. It means they can be used in the deserts of northeastern Syria
> ? the area of the Israeli strike.
>
> The triangular relationship between North Korea, Syria and Iran
> continues to perplex intelligence analysts. Syria served as a conduit
> for the transport to Iran of an estimated =A350m of missile components
> and technology sent by sea from North Korea. The same route may be in
> use for nuclear equipment.
>
> But North Korea is at a sensitive stage of negotiations to end its
> nuclear programme in exchange for security guarantees and aid, leading
> some diplomats to cast doubt on the likelihood that Kim would cross
> America's "red line" forbidding the proliferation of nuclear
> materials.
>
> Christopher Hill, the State Department official representing America
> in the talks, said on Friday he could not confirm "intelligence-type
> things", but the reports underscored the need "to make sure the North
> Koreans get out of the nuclear business".
>
> By its actions, Israel showed it is not interested in waiting for
> diplomacy to work where nuclear weapons are at stake.
>
> As a bonus, the Israelis proved they could penetrate the Syrian air
> defence system, which is stronger than the one protecting Iranian
> nuclear sites.
>
> This weekend President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran sent Ali Akbar
> Mehrabian, his nephew, to Syria to assess the damage. The new "axis of
> evil" may have lost one of its spokes.


Since the Israelis bombed the Iraq Osirak reactor in 1980, I'm
surprised they haven't done the same to the Iranian installations.
 
MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran

Russia has begun to implement the contract signed by Rosoboronexport
with Syria this year for the delivery of five MiG-31E fighter-
interceptors. That means that Russia is renewing arms deliveries to
the Middle East after a hiatus due to the war in Lebanon. Iran may be
the big winner from the deal, since there exists an Iranian-Syrian
mutual defense agreement, and Iran is financing Damascus's purchase.
Several sources in the military-industrial complex told Kommersant
that OAO Nizhny Novgorod Sokol Plant has begun working on the five
MiG-31E aircraft. At the beginning of the year, Rosoboronexport signed
a contract with Damascus for them. Since production of the MiG-31 was
halted in 1994, Syria is receiving planes from the reserve of the
Russian Air Force that are being modified to the purchaser's
specifications.

Vladimir Vypryazhkin, deputy general director of the state MiG Russian
Aviation Construction Corp. told Kommersant yesterday that "export
orders are starting to come in for the MiG-31." He declined to
identify the source of the orders, but noted that "We are offering the
MiG-31E on a trade-in basis for countries that have the MiG-25
interceptor."

Only Libya and Syria have MiG-25 fighter-interceptor and recognizance
plane at present. India recently retired its MiG-25s.

Boris Aleshin, chairman of the Federal Industry Agency, confirmed that
there is a contract for the MiG-31E. He also declined to identify the
purchaser. Kommersant has learned that a lot of MiG-29M/M2 jets was
sold to Syria as well. They are being sold abroad for the first time
and are similar in their technical specifications to the MiG-35 model
Russia is now offering India. The total value of the contract for the
MiG-31 and MiG-29M/M2 aircraft is estimated at $1 billion.

Several questions are raised by the deal. First, where Syria got the
money for such expensive weapons. In the winter of 2005, Russia wrote
off 70 percent of Syria's foreign debt, which was $13.4 billion at the
time. Under that agreement, Syria's debt to Russia was reduced to $3.6
billion. Russia renewed military-technical cooperation with Syrian at
the same time. Information has arisen regularly since the beginning of
2005 that Syria is in negotiations with Russia for the purchase of new
weapons. First Iskander-E missiles were mentioned. Russian President
Vladimir Putin even confirmed that Damascus was interested in them,
but he supposedly personally blocked the deal. At the beginning of
this year, unofficial information emerged that negotiations had been
renewed. This time, the items of interest to Syria were Pantsir,
Strelets and Igla missiles. Strelets ballistic missiles were delivered
to Syria in 2005. Sergey Chemezov, general director of
Rosoboronexport, stated in January of this year that "the Syrians want
our Igla complex, but we won't give it to them."

Syrian President Bashar Assad was in Moscow in December of last year
for negotiations with Putin, at which Syria's desire to replace its
aging MiG-25 planes with new MiG-29 or MiG-31 models.

Western experts think that one of the reasons for Syria's spending
spree may be that it is buying weapons for not only for itself, or not
for itself at all. Moscow and Damascus concluded a contract last year
for the delivery of 36 Pantsir-S1E artillery missile systems. In May
of this year, the authoritative British Jane's Defence Weekly reported
that at least ten of those Pantsirs would be handed over to Iran by
the end of 2008. According to that publication, Iran is the main
sponsor of the deal and is paying Syria for its services as
intermediary.

There is still no official conformation of the deal described, but the
cooperation scheme between Syria and Iran is perfectly believable.
Tehran and Damascus are linked by a number of agreements on mutual
defense. A Syrian-Iranian strategic alliance was wrought in the 1980s
during the Iran-Iraq war. In recent years, Syria and Iran have signed
a whole series of agreements on closely coordinated defense
activities. In February 2005, for example, almost simultaneously with
Russia's forgiveness of much of Syria's debt to it, Syrian Prime
Minister Naji Otari and Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref
signed a mutual defense pact and, in July 2006, the defense ministers
of the two countries, Hasan Turkmani and Mostafa Mohammad Najar,
signed an agreement creating a high defense commission and one on
military cooperation that envisaged Iranian financing of Syrian arms
deals with Russia, Ukraine and China.

Iran's interest in Russian arms is explained by the conflict
developing between it and the United States and the likelihood of
armed conflict in the region. In the USSR, the MiG-31 was considered a
key element in the defense against a potential attack from the U.S. It
was to knock out American cruise missiles flying over the North Pole.
The usefulness of that Soviet technology in a potential conflict
between the U.S. and Iran is debatable. In the event of a war, Iran's
chances of an air victory are negligible, no matter what weapons they
buy.

The MiG-31 would do more good for Syria. Head of the Technology and
National Security Program at the Holon Institute of Technology and
Israeli Air Force Col. (Res.) Shmuel Gordon told Kommersant that "This
is the first serious modernization of the Syrian antiaircraft and
antimissile system in ten years. It will most likely seriously limit
the Israeli Air Force's freedom of action. The appearance of those
planes means that the Syrians can take down Israeli planes over the
Golan Heights or Lebanon. That is to say this is a quantitative leap
in Syria's ability to wage an air war." Gordon also thought that five
planes was but the tip of the iceberg. "It makes little sense to limit
oneself to five planes. Where there's five, there will soon be 20, and
maybe 24, planes. Maintenance of the planes is very expensive, but it
makes no difference whether you maintain five or 20 of them." Former
head of the Israeli Air Force Maj. Gen. Eitan Ben-Eliahu agrees with
him. "That can influence the actions of the Israeli Air Force
somewhat, but the influence will not be significant. It does not at
all change the fact of Israel's absolute air superiority. However, if
the number of Syria's planes is increased, that could change the
situation. The most dangerous thing for Israel's security is not the
delivery of five planes but the renewal of deliveries."

According to Knesset member and former chairman of the Foreign Affairs
and Defense Committee Yuval Steinitz, "It cannot be said that a
specific deal is a threat to Israel's security, but the main danger is
that it is a matter of a whole package of deals that gradually adds
up." Last year, Israel alleged to Moscow in confidential negotiations
that some of the arms it sold to Syria fell into the hands of the
Hezbollah and being used in the war in Lebanon last summer.

The sale of Russian jets to Syria will undoubtedly have repercussions
in the West. Moscow is not likely to be concerned with American
criticism at the moment, since the main problem in U.S.-Russian
relations is the U.S. missile defense system in Eastern Europe. Now
the two issues may be discussed together.

Iran's position on the missile defense system can be considered
indirect confirmation that it is deriving some sort of benefit from
the present deal. When Putin suggested to U.S. President George W.
Bush that they counter the Iranian threat by using the Gabala radar
station in Azerbaijan together, Tehran unexpectedly announced that it
does not consider Russia's proposal hostile and that it will not
affect Russia's good relations with Iran.

What is the MiG-31?

Development of the MiG-31 supersonic fighter-interceptor (Foxhound in
NATO classification) was begun by the Mikoyan Experimental Design
Bureau in 1968. The first test flights were performed in 1977 and it
went into service in 1981.

The airplane was first created to defend the USSR from cruise missile
attacks from the Arctic. A number of weapons systems were used for the
first time in the USSR in the MiG-31, including the R-33 long-distance
(about 120 km.) air-to-air guided missile and the Zaslon radar system,
capable of locating its target at a distance of 180 km. and both guide
missiles to it and relay the information to other aircraft and ground
facilities.

The MiG-31 has a two-man crew. Its combat radius is 720 km. (1400 km.
with external fuel tanks), maximum speed 3000 km./hr. and operational
ceiling of 20,600 m. It has a flight weight of 41 tons. Besides
missiles, the plane is armed with a 23-mm. gun and two or four short-
or medium-range missiles. The MiG-31 was produced at the Sokol plant
in Nizhny Novgorod until 1994. More than 500 planes were produced.
There are about 300 of them in the Russian Air Force at present and
about 40 in Kazakhstan.

Several modifications of the plane have been developed, including the
MiG-31M (with a new 320-km. radar system) and MiG-31F (capable of
striking ground targets). The MiG-31 has not been used in combat and
has not been exported. There were media reported in the early 1990s of
interest from Syria, Libya and China in acquiring the aircraft, but no
contracts for it were signed.

Konstantin Lantratov, Paris; Grigory Asmolov, Jerusalem; Alexandra
Gritskova, Mikhail Zygar

http://www.kommersant.com/p775460/r_527/arms_trade_
 
"Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decline@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran


Good.

Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...

And a few Raptors.....

YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!

Git-r-Done
 
On Sep 17, 11:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran

>
> Good.
>
> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>
> And a few Raptors.....
>
> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>
> Git-r-Done



1980. Israeli F-15s go up against Arab Migs. Result? 80 Migs shot
down, ZERO F-15s!!!!! Now the Raptor is here. Goodbye Arab
airforces!!
 
"It's Americans OR Democrats" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190057298.203173.196060@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 17, 11:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran

>> Good.
>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>> And a few Raptors.....
>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>> Git-r-Done

> 1980. Israeli F-15s go up against Arab Migs. Result? 80 Migs shot
> down, ZERO F-15s!!!!! Now the Raptor is here. Goodbye Arab
> airforces!!


And UNLIKE Israeli F-15s in an actual modern dogfight, the Raptors can take
out MULTIPLE MIGs at locked-on distances exceeding the MIGs radar envelope.
They can't see it coming until its in their ass.

However, there's bad news.... Since this will be the first post-modern
long-range dogfight we won't get any good video... That kinda sucks.
 
On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran

>
> Good.
>
> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>
> And a few Raptors.....
>
> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>
> Git-r-Done


The old stealth units are being retired. It is possible that Iran
will see action against the new ones, F-22 or F-35.
 
On Sep 17, 5:23 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> "It's Americans OR Democrats" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1190057298.203173.196060@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Sep 17, 11:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> >> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
> >> Good.
> >> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
> >> And a few Raptors.....
> >> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
> >> Git-r-Done

> > 1980. Israeli F-15s go up against Arab Migs. Result? 80 Migs shot
> > down, ZERO F-15s!!!!! Now the Raptor is here. Goodbye Arab
> > airforces!!

>
> And UNLIKE Israeli F-15s in an actual modern dogfight, the Raptors can take
> out MULTIPLE MIGs at locked-on distances exceeding the MIGs radar envelope.
> They can't see it coming until its in their ass.
>
> However, there's bad news.... Since this will be the first post-modern
> long-range dogfight we won't get any good video... That kinda sucks.


My favorite are the gunships modelled after the C-130s, the Pave
Spectres. Watching those things hovering at 8000ft, taking out Arab
trucks/tanks with their cannons is poetry.
 
"It's Americans OR Democrats" <rander3127@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190079889.042461.162600@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 17, 5:23 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> "It's Americans OR Democrats" <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:1190057298.203173.196060@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 17, 11:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> >> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> message
>> >>news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>> >> Good.
>> >> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>> >> And a few Raptors.....
>> >> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>> >> Git-r-Done
>> > 1980. Israeli F-15s go up against Arab Migs. Result? 80 Migs shot
>> > down, ZERO F-15s!!!!! Now the Raptor is here. Goodbye Arab
>> > airforces!!

>> And UNLIKE Israeli F-15s in an actual modern dogfight, the Raptors can
>> take
>> out MULTIPLE MIGs at locked-on distances exceeding the MIGs radar
>> envelope.
>> They can't see it coming until its in their ass.
>> However, there's bad news.... Since this will be the first post-modern
>> long-range dogfight we won't get any good video... That kinda sucks.

> My favorite are the gunships modelled after the C-130s, the Pave
> Spectres. Watching those things hovering at 8000ft, taking out Arab
> trucks/tanks with their cannons is poetry.


YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!

1,800 rounds per minute per gun!!!!

That's a lot of scuzzy muzzie roadkill!!!
 
"Latrodectus" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran

>> Good.
>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>> And a few Raptors.....
>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>> Git-r-Done

> The old stealth units are being retired.


In about 10 years....

> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22 or
> F-35.


The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter. (It
uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)

The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.

The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...
 
On Sep 18, 11:53 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> "Latrodectus" <e...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> >> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
> >> Good.
> >> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
> >> And a few Raptors.....
> >> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
> >> Git-r-Done

> > The old stealth units are being retired.

>
> In about 10 years....
>
> > It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22 or
> > F-35.

>
> The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter. (It
> uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)
>


Yes.

> The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.
>


Not against Iran.

> The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...


It's close.
 
"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
news:46f01094$0$32480$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Latrodectus" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
> news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> message
>>> news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>>> Good.
>>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>>> And a few Raptors.....
>>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>>> Git-r-Done

>> The old stealth units are being retired.

>
> In about 10 years....
>
>> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22 or
>> F-35.

>
> The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter. (It
> uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)
>
> The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.
>
> The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...
>
>


The F-35 is a fighter replacing for the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and the Harrier.
The F-117 is actually a bomber.
 
On Sep 18, 3:58 pm, "Guy" <nos...@nospam.us> wrote:
> "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote in message
>
> news:46f01094$0$32480$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Latrodectus" <e...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
> >news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> >>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >>> message
> >>>news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
> >>> Good.
> >>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
> >>> And a few Raptors.....
> >>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
> >>> Git-r-Done
> >> The old stealth units are being retired.

>
> > In about 10 years....

>
> >> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22 or
> >> F-35.

>
> > The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter. (It
> > uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)

>
> > The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.

>
> > The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...

>
> The F-35 is a fighter replacing for the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and the Harrier.
> The F-117 is actually a bomber.


According to wikipedia it's actually a ground attack vehicle, not a
fighter or bomber. Thank you for bringing this up, because I was also
under the impression it was classified as as fighter due to the F in
the name.
 
"Latrodectus" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
news:1190151068.354818.145910@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 18, 11:53 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> "Latrodectus" <e...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>> news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> >> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> message
>> >>news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>> >> Good.
>> >> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>> >> And a few Raptors.....
>> >> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>> >> Git-r-Done
>> > The old stealth units are being retired.

>> In about 10 years....
>> > It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22 or
>> > F-35.

>> The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter. (It
>> uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)

> Yes.
>> The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.

> Not against Iran.


Yes..... It is....... (Trust me on this one. Its already there.......)

>> The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...

> It's close.


Its not gonna be ready for this party.......
 
"Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote in message
news:46f04a08$0$15331$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
> news:46f01094$0$32480$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> "Latrodectus" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>> news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>>>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>>>> Good.
>>>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>>>> And a few Raptors.....
>>>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>>>> Git-r-Done
>>> The old stealth units are being retired.

>> In about 10 years....
>>> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22 or
>>> F-35.

>> The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter. (It
>> uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)
>> The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.
>> The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...

> The F-35 is a fighter replacing for the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and the
> Harrier.


No, not really. The F-22 replaces the F-15, F-16, F/A-18

The F-35 replaces F-117 and the Harrier. And who knows what else.

> The F-117 is actually a bomber.


No, the F-117 is a fighter. The 'F' is for Fighter..................

No, that's the Stealth Bomber. The B-2. The "B" is for Bomber.........
 
"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
news:46f16654$0$8033$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote in message
> news:46f04a08$0$15331$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
>> news:46f01094$0$32480$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> "Latrodectus" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>> message
>>>>> news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>>>>> Good.
>>>>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>>>>> And a few Raptors.....
>>>>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>>>>> Git-r-Done
>>>> The old stealth units are being retired.
>>> In about 10 years....
>>>> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22 or
>>>> F-35.
>>> The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter. (It
>>> uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)
>>> The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.
>>> The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...

>> The F-35 is a fighter replacing for the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and the
>> Harrier.

>
> No, not really. The F-22 replaces the F-15, F-16, F/A-18


So just when was the F-22 certified for carrier use so it can replace the
F/A-18?

And the F-22 will not be produced in sufficient quantities to replace the
enormous fleet of F-16s (think international -- the F-35 is an international
cooperative project with Lockheed as primary contractor).


>
> The F-35 replaces F-117 and the Harrier. And who knows what else.
>
>> The F-117 is actually a bomber.

>
> No, the F-117 is a fighter. The 'F' is for Fighter..................
>
> No, that's the Stealth Bomber. The B-2. The "B" is for Bomber.........
>
>
 
On Sep 16, 9:27 am, AirRaid <airraid1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yea North Korea shutting down their nuclear program so innocently?
> Nope, they are proliferating, and I guarantee Syria isn't the only
> place that got some from Kim Jong Mentally Il. Bombing this secret
> nuke stash in Syria was pretty easy too. Iran will be next!


I doubt it.. just more war propaganda.
 
"Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote in message
news:46f1f537$0$11050$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
> news:46f16654$0$8033$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> "Guy" <nospam@nospam.us> wrote in message
>> news:46f04a08$0$15331$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
>>> news:46f01094$0$32480$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> "Latrodectus" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>> news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>>>>>> Good.
>>>>>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>>>>>> And a few Raptors.....
>>>>>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>>>>>> Git-r-Done
>>>>> The old stealth units are being retired.
>>>> In about 10 years....
>>>>> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22
>>>>> or F-35.
>>>> The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter.
>>>> (It uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)
>>>> The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.
>>>> The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...
>>> The F-35 is a fighter replacing for the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and the
>>> Harrier.

>> No, not really. The F-22 replaces the F-15, F-16, F/A-18

> So just when was the F-22 certified for carrier use so it can replace the
> F/A-18?


I don't think it has been Carrier-certified. I'm not entirely sure what the
Navy is gonna do there. Some money has been spent on trying to make the F-22
Carrier-specific, and they may even go crazy with a modified F-35?

> And the F-22 will not be produced in sufficient quantities to replace the
> enormous fleet of F-16s (think international -- the F-35 is an
> international cooperative project with Lockheed as primary contractor).


That can always change....

>> The F-35 replaces F-117 and the Harrier. And who knows what else.
>>> The F-117 is actually a bomber.

>> No, the F-117 is a fighter. The 'F' is for Fighter..................
>> No, that's the Stealth Bomber. The B-2. The "B" is for Bomber.........


The Navy is in a bind. They want more Carriers. But they also want
more/new jets. But they can't have both.... So they fought for Carriers
and let the AF go get F-22s and let everybody pitch in on the F-35. I have
no idea how its gonna work out but clearly the F-15s, F-16s, and F/A-18s are
getting replaced with something....
 
"Latrodectus" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
news:1190153206.939887.263620@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 18, 3:58 pm, "Guy" <nos...@nospam.us> wrote:
>> "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote in message
>> news:46f01094$0$32480$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> > "Latrodectus" <e...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> >>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >>> message
>> >>>news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> >>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>> >>> Good.
>> >>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>> >>> And a few Raptors.....
>> >>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>> >>> Git-r-Done
>> >> The old stealth units are being retired.
>> > In about 10 years....
>> >> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22
>> >> or
>> >> F-35.
>> > The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter.
>> > (It
>> > uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)
>> > The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.
>> > The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...

>> The F-35 is a fighter replacing for the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and the
>> Harrier.
>> The F-117 is actually a bomber.

> According to wikipedia it's actually a ground attack vehicle, not a
> fighter or bomber. Thank you for bringing this up, because I was also
> under the impression it was classified as as fighter due to the F in
> the name.


Excellent photos here:
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Riat2002/F117/index.html
 
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