Israelis 'blew apart Syrian nuclear cache' - Secret F-15I raid on North Korean shipment

[Latrodectus]

On Sep 24, 3:48 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> "Latrodectus" <e...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1190153206.939887.263620@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Sep 18, 3:58 pm, "Guy" <nos...@nospam.us> wrote:
> >> "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote in message
> >>news:46f01094$0$32480$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> >> > "Latrodectus" <e...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >> >> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
> >> >>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> >> >>> message
> >> >>>news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> >> >>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
> >> >>> Good.
> >> >>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
> >> >>> And a few Raptors.....
> >> >>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
> >> >>> Git-r-Done
> >> >> The old stealth units are being retired.
> >> > In about 10 years....
> >> >> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones, F-22
> >> >> or
> >> >> F-35.
> >> > The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter.
> >> > (It
> >> > uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)
> >> > The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.
> >> > The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...
> >> The F-35 is a fighter replacing for the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and the
> >> Harrier.
> >> The F-117 is actually a bomber.
> > According to wikipedia it's actually a ground attack vehicle, not a
> > fighter or bomber. Thank you for bringing this up, because I was also
> > under the impression it was classified as as fighter due to the F in
> > the name.
>
> Excellent photos here:http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Riat2002/F117/index.html

Those were nice photos, thanks. I live in NM so I see them now and
then. They really do look strange.

 

[Patriot Games]

"Latrodectus" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
news:1190671523.983207.300250@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 24, 3:48 pm, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> "Latrodectus" <e...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>> news:1190153206.939887.263620@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 18, 3:58 pm, "Guy" <nos...@nospam.us> wrote:
>> >> "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote in message
>> >>news:46f01094$0$32480$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> >> > "Latrodectus" <e...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:1190065622.400481.188570@n39g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >> On Sep 17, 9:56 am, "Patriot Games" <Patr...@America.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> "Ahura Mazda" <zoroastrians.cult.in.decl...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> >> >>> message
>> >> >>>news:1189967872.269310.98310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >>> > MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>> >> >>> Good.
>> >> >>> Can't wait to see them up against a Stealth Fighter...
>> >> >>> And a few Raptors.....
>> >> >>> YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHAW!
>> >> >>> Git-r-Done
>> >> >> The old stealth units are being retired.
>> >> > In about 10 years....
>> >> >> It is possible that Iran will see action against the new ones,
>> >> >> F-22
>> >> >> or
>> >> >> F-35.
>> >> > The F-22 Raptor is NOT a replacement for the F-117 Stealth Fighter.
>> >> > (It
>> >> > uses a different approach to achieve stealthiness.)
>> >> > The F-22 Raptor is ALREADY in theatre.
>> >> > The F-35 is the replacement for the F-117 but its not ready yet...
>> >> The F-35 is a fighter replacing for the F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and the
>> >> Harrier.
>> >> The F-117 is actually a bomber.
>> > According to wikipedia it's actually a ground attack vehicle, not a
>> > fighter or bomber. Thank you for bringing this up, because I was also
>> > under the impression it was classified as as fighter due to the F in
>> > the name.
>> Excellent photos
>> here:http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Riat2002/F117/index.html
> Those were nice photos, thanks. I live in NM so I see them now and
> then. They really do look strange.

I go to the airashow at MacDill once a year.

Strange, but very cool.

 

[Scotius (Ponti Fickatur)]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:37:52 -0700, Ahura Mazda
<zoroastrians.cult.in.decline@hotmail.com> wrote:

>MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>
>Russia has begun to implement the contract signed by Rosoboronexport

It's "Robsoexport".

>with Syria this year for the delivery of five MiG-31E fighter-
>interceptors.

Good plane. It has a phased array radar (first ever on a
fighter sized aircraft) that can be somewhat effective against certain
types of stealth aircraft, as well as cruise missiles. Five of them
wouldn't make a dent in the US capability though, and they'd be seen
from satellite long before getting close enough to shoot down any US
plane.

>That means that Russia is renewing arms deliveries to
>the Middle East after a hiatus due to the war in Lebanon. Iran may be
>the big winner from the deal, since there exists an Iranian-Syrian
>mutual defense agreement, and Iran is financing Damascus's purchase.
>Several sources in the military-industrial complex told Kommersant
>that OAO Nizhny Novgorod Sokol Plant has begun working on the five
>MiG-31E aircraft. At the beginning of the year, Rosoboronexport signed
>a contract with Damascus for them. Since production of the MiG-31 was
>halted in 1994, Syria is receiving planes from the reserve of the
>Russian Air Force that are being modified to the purchaser's
>specifications.
>
>Vladimir Vypryazhkin, deputy general director of the state MiG Russian
>Aviation Construction Corp. told Kommersant yesterday that "export
>orders are starting to come in for the MiG-31." He declined to
>identify the source of the orders, but noted that "We are offering the
>MiG-31E on a trade-in basis for countries that have the MiG-25
>interceptor."

The MiG-31 is much more than a follow on version of the MiG-25
Foxbat.

>
>Only Libya and Syria have MiG-25 fighter-interceptor and recognizance
>plane at present. India recently retired its MiG-25s.
>
>Boris Aleshin, chairman of the Federal Industry Agency, confirmed that
>there is a contract for the MiG-31E. He also declined to identify the
>purchaser. Kommersant has learned that a lot of MiG-29M/M2 jets was
>sold to Syria as well. They are being sold abroad for the first time
>and are similar in their technical specifications to the MiG-35 model
>Russia is now offering India. The total value of the contract for the
>MiG-31 and MiG-29M/M2 aircraft is estimated at $1 billion.
>
>Several questions are raised by the deal. First, where Syria got the
>money for such expensive weapons. In the winter of 2005, Russia wrote
>off 70 percent of Syria's foreign debt, which was $13.4 billion at the
>time. Under that agreement, Syria's debt to Russia was reduced to $3.6
>billion. Russia renewed military-technical cooperation with Syrian at
>the same time. Information has arisen regularly since the beginning of
>2005 that Syria is in negotiations with Russia for the purchase of new
>weapons. First Iskander-E missiles were mentioned. Russian President
>Vladimir Putin even confirmed that Damascus was interested in them,
>but he supposedly personally blocked the deal. At the beginning of
>this year, unofficial information emerged that negotiations had been
>renewed. This time, the items of interest to Syria were Pantsir,
>Strelets and Igla missiles. Strelets ballistic missiles were delivered
>to Syria in 2005. Sergey Chemezov, general director of
>Rosoboronexport, stated in January of this year that "the Syrians want
>our Igla complex, but we won't give it to them."
>
>Syrian President Bashar Assad was in Moscow in December of last year
>for negotiations with Putin, at which Syria's desire to replace its
>aging MiG-25 planes with new MiG-29 or MiG-31 models.
>
>Western experts think that one of the reasons for Syria's spending
>spree may be that it is buying weapons for not only for itself, or not
>for itself at all. Moscow and Damascus concluded a contract last year
>for the delivery of 36 Pantsir-S1E artillery missile systems. In May
>of this year, the authoritative British Jane's Defence Weekly reported
>that at least ten of those Pantsirs would be handed over to Iran by
>the end of 2008. According to that publication, Iran is the main
>sponsor of the deal and is paying Syria for its services as
>intermediary.
>
>There is still no official conformation of the deal described, but the
>cooperation scheme between Syria and Iran is perfectly believable.
>Tehran and Damascus are linked by a number of agreements on mutual
>defense. A Syrian-Iranian strategic alliance was wrought in the 1980s
>during the Iran-Iraq war. In recent years, Syria and Iran have signed
>a whole series of agreements on closely coordinated defense
>activities. In February 2005, for example, almost simultaneously with
>Russia's forgiveness of much of Syria's debt to it, Syrian Prime
>Minister Naji Otari and Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref
>signed a mutual defense pact and, in July 2006, the defense ministers
>of the two countries, Hasan Turkmani and Mostafa Mohammad Najar,
>signed an agreement creating a high defense commission and one on
>military cooperation that envisaged Iranian financing of Syrian arms
>deals with Russia, Ukraine and China.
>
>Iran's interest in Russian arms is explained by the conflict
>developing between it and the United States and the likelihood of
>armed conflict in the region. In the USSR, the MiG-31 was considered a
>key element in the defense against a potential attack from the U.S. It
>was to knock out American cruise missiles flying over the North Pole.
>The usefulness of that Soviet technology in a potential conflict
>between the U.S. and Iran is debatable. In the event of a war, Iran's
>chances of an air victory are negligible, no matter what weapons they
>buy.
>
>The MiG-31 would do more good for Syria. Head of the Technology and
>National Security Program at the Holon Institute of Technology and
>Israeli Air Force Col. (Res.) Shmuel Gordon told Kommersant that "This
>is the first serious modernization of the Syrian antiaircraft and
>antimissile system in ten years. It will most likely seriously limit
>the Israeli Air Force's freedom of action. The appearance of those
>planes means that the Syrians can take down Israeli planes over the
>Golan Heights or Lebanon. That is to say this is a quantitative leap
>in Syria's ability to wage an air war." Gordon also thought that five
>planes was but the tip of the iceberg. "It makes little sense to limit
>oneself to five planes. Where there's five, there will soon be 20, and
>maybe 24, planes. Maintenance of the planes is very expensive, but it
>makes no difference whether you maintain five or 20 of them." Former
>head of the Israeli Air Force Maj. Gen. Eitan Ben-Eliahu agrees with
>him. "That can influence the actions of the Israeli Air Force
>somewhat, but the influence will not be significant. It does not at
>all change the fact of Israel's absolute air superiority. However, if
>the number of Syria's planes is increased, that could change the
>situation. The most dangerous thing for Israel's security is not the
>delivery of five planes but the renewal of deliveries."
>

Syria was badly stung by their experience in the early '80s
when the Israelis sent drones over their territory to trick them into
turning on their air defense radars. After they did so, more than 80%
of their ground based radards were then destroyed by Israeli aircraft
loitering just outside the detection ranges of those radars.

>According to Knesset member and former chairman of the Foreign Affairs
>and Defense Committee Yuval Steinitz, "It cannot be said that a
>specific deal is a threat to Israel's security, but the main danger is
>that it is a matter of a whole package of deals that gradually adds
>up." Last year, Israel alleged to Moscow in confidential negotiations
>that some of the arms it sold to Syria fell into the hands of the
>Hezbollah and being used in the war in Lebanon last summer.
>
>The sale of Russian jets to Syria will undoubtedly have repercussions
>in the West. Moscow is not likely to be concerned with American
>criticism at the moment, since the main problem in U.S.-Russian
>relations is the U.S. missile defense system in Eastern Europe. Now
>the two issues may be discussed together.
>
>Iran's position on the missile defense system can be considered
>indirect confirmation that it is deriving some sort of benefit from
>the present deal. When Putin suggested to U.S. President George W.
>Bush that they counter the Iranian threat by using the Gabala radar
>station in Azerbaijan together, Tehran unexpectedly announced that it
>does not consider Russia's proposal hostile and that it will not
>affect Russia's good relations with Iran.
>
>What is the MiG-31?
>
>Development of the MiG-31 supersonic fighter-interceptor (Foxhound in
>NATO classification) was begun by the Mikoyan Experimental Design
>Bureau in 1968. The first test flights were performed in 1977 and it
>went into service in 1981.
>
>The airplane was first created to defend the USSR from cruise missile
>attacks from the Arctic. A number of weapons systems were used for the
>first time in the USSR in the MiG-31, including the R-33 long-distance
>(about 120 km.) air-to-air guided missile and the Zaslon radar system,

NATO code-named "Flashdance". It was the first phased array
radar system to be put on a fighter sized aircraft.

>capable of locating its target at a distance of 180 km. and both guide
>missiles to it and relay the information to other aircraft and ground
>facilities.
>
>The MiG-31 has a two-man crew. Its combat radius is 720 km. (1400 km.
>with external fuel tanks), maximum speed 3000 km./hr. and operational
>ceiling of 20,600 m. It has a flight weight of 41 tons. Besides
>missiles, the plane is armed with a 23-mm. gun and two or four short-
>or medium-range missiles. The MiG-31 was produced at the Sokol plant
>in Nizhny Novgorod until 1994. More than 500 planes were produced.
>There are about 300 of them in the Russian Air Force at present and
>about 40 in Kazakhstan.
>
>Several modifications of the plane have been developed, including the
>MiG-31M (with a new 320-km. radar system) and MiG-31F (capable of
>striking ground targets). The MiG-31 has not been used in combat and
>has not been exported. There were media reported in the early 1990s of
>interest from Syria, Libya and China in acquiring the aircraft, but no
>contracts for it were signed.
>
>Konstantin Lantratov, Paris; Grigory Asmolov, Jerusalem; Alexandra
>Gritskova, Mikhail Zygar
>
>http://www.kommersant.com/p775460/r_527/arms_trade_
>
>

 

[Gary Renzetti]

"Scotius (Ponti Fickatur)" <wolvzbud@mnsi.net> wrote in message
news:2ikig3td3tbc6t9lj5a93kqpueovgdnijc@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:37:52 -0700, Ahura Mazda
> <zoroastrians.cult.in.decline@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>MiGs Will Defend Syria and Iran
>>
>>Russia has begun to implement the contract signed by Rosoboronexport
>
> It's "Robsoexport".
>
>>with Syria this year for the delivery of five MiG-31E fighter-
>>interceptors.
>
> Good plane. It has a phased array radar (first ever on a
> fighter sized aircraft) that can be somewhat effective against certain
> types of stealth aircraft, as well as cruise missiles. Five of them
> wouldn't make a dent in the US capability though, and they'd be seen
> from satellite long before getting close enough to shoot down any US
> plane.
>
All true. But the Syrians have no intention of attacking anyone. They just
want to stop the threat from littleshittystan (the zionist thuggocracy).
They certainly don't want to fight the Excited States.

>>That means that Russia is renewing arms deliveries to
>>the Middle East after a hiatus due to the war in Lebanon. Iran may be
>>the big winner from the deal, since there exists an Iranian-Syrian
>>mutual defense agreement, and Iran is financing Damascus's purchase.
>>Several sources in the military-industrial complex told Kommersant
>>that OAO Nizhny Novgorod Sokol Plant has begun working on the five
>>MiG-31E aircraft. At the beginning of the year, Rosoboronexport signed
>>a contract with Damascus for them. Since production of the MiG-31 was
>>halted in 1994, Syria is receiving planes from the reserve of the
>>Russian Air Force that are being modified to the purchaser's
>>specifications.
>>
>>Vladimir Vypryazhkin, deputy general director of the state MiG Russian
>>Aviation Construction Corp. told Kommersant yesterday that "export
>>orders are starting to come in for the MiG-31." He declined to
>>identify the source of the orders, but noted that "We are offering the
>>MiG-31E on a trade-in basis for countries that have the MiG-25
>>interceptor."
>
> The MiG-31 is much more than a follow on version of the MiG-25
> Foxbat.
>
>>
>>Only Libya and Syria have MiG-25 fighter-interceptor and recognizance
>>plane at present. India recently retired its MiG-25s.
>>
>>Boris Aleshin, chairman of the Federal Industry Agency, confirmed that
>>there is a contract for the MiG-31E. He also declined to identify the
>>purchaser. Kommersant has learned that a lot of MiG-29M/M2 jets was
>>sold to Syria as well. They are being sold abroad for the first time
>>and are similar in their technical specifications to the MiG-35 model
>>Russia is now offering India. The total value of the contract for the
>>MiG-31 and MiG-29M/M2 aircraft is estimated at $1 billion.
>>
>>Several questions are raised by the deal. First, where Syria got the
>>money for such expensive weapons. In the winter of 2005, Russia wrote
>>off 70 percent of Syria's foreign debt, which was $13.4 billion at the
>>time. Under that agreement, Syria's debt to Russia was reduced to $3.6
>>billion. Russia renewed military-technical cooperation with Syrian at
>>the same time. Information has arisen regularly since the beginning of
>>2005 that Syria is in negotiations with Russia for the purchase of new
>>weapons. First Iskander-E missiles were mentioned. Russian President
>>Vladimir Putin even confirmed that Damascus was interested in them,
>>but he supposedly personally blocked the deal. At the beginning of
>>this year, unofficial information emerged that negotiations had been
>>renewed. This time, the items of interest to Syria were Pantsir,
>>Strelets and Igla missiles. Strelets ballistic missiles were delivered
>>to Syria in 2005. Sergey Chemezov, general director of
>>Rosoboronexport, stated in January of this year that "the Syrians want
>>our Igla complex, but we won't give it to them."
>>
>>Syrian President Bashar Assad was in Moscow in December of last year
>>for negotiations with Putin, at which Syria's desire to replace its
>>aging MiG-25 planes with new MiG-29 or MiG-31 models.
>>
>>Western experts think that one of the reasons for Syria's spending
>>spree may be that it is buying weapons for not only for itself, or not
>>for itself at all. Moscow and Damascus concluded a contract last year
>>for the delivery of 36 Pantsir-S1E artillery missile systems. In May
>>of this year, the authoritative British Jane's Defence Weekly reported
>>that at least ten of those Pantsirs would be handed over to Iran by
>>the end of 2008. According to that publication, Iran is the main
>>sponsor of the deal and is paying Syria for its services as
>>intermediary.
>>
>>There is still no official conformation of the deal described, but the
>>cooperation scheme between Syria and Iran is perfectly believable.
>>Tehran and Damascus are linked by a number of agreements on mutual
>>defense. A Syrian-Iranian strategic alliance was wrought in the 1980s
>>during the Iran-Iraq war. In recent years, Syria and Iran have signed
>>a whole series of agreements on closely coordinated defense
>>activities. In February 2005, for example, almost simultaneously with
>>Russia's forgiveness of much of Syria's debt to it, Syrian Prime
>>Minister Naji Otari and Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref
>>signed a mutual defense pact and, in July 2006, the defense ministers
>>of the two countries, Hasan Turkmani and Mostafa Mohammad Najar,
>>signed an agreement creating a high defense commission and one on
>>military cooperation that envisaged Iranian financing of Syrian arms
>>deals with Russia, Ukraine and China.
>>
>>Iran's interest in Russian arms is explained by the conflict
>>developing between it and the United States and the likelihood of
>>armed conflict in the region. In the USSR, the MiG-31 was considered a
>>key element in the defense against a potential attack from the U.S. It
>>was to knock out American cruise missiles flying over the North Pole.
>>The usefulness of that Soviet technology in a potential conflict
>>between the U.S. and Iran is debatable. In the event of a war, Iran's
>>chances of an air victory are negligible, no matter what weapons they
>>buy.
>>
>>The MiG-31 would do more good for Syria. Head of the Technology and
>>National Security Program at the Holon Institute of Technology and
>>Israeli Air Force Col. (Res.) Shmuel Gordon told Kommersant that "This
>>is the first serious modernization of the Syrian antiaircraft and
>>antimissile system in ten years. It will most likely seriously limit
>>the Israeli Air Force's freedom of action. The appearance of those
>>planes means that the Syrians can take down Israeli planes over the
>>Golan Heights or Lebanon. That is to say this is a quantitative leap
>>in Syria's ability to wage an air war." Gordon also thought that five
>>planes was but the tip of the iceberg. "It makes little sense to limit
>>oneself to five planes. Where there's five, there will soon be 20, and
>>maybe 24, planes. Maintenance of the planes is very expensive, but it
>>makes no difference whether you maintain five or 20 of them." Former
>>head of the Israeli Air Force Maj. Gen. Eitan Ben-Eliahu agrees with
>>him. "That can influence the actions of the Israeli Air Force
>>somewhat, but the influence will not be significant. It does not at
>>all change the fact of Israel's absolute air superiority. However, if
>>the number of Syria's planes is increased, that could change the
>>situation. The most dangerous thing for Israel's security is not the
>>delivery of five planes but the renewal of deliveries."
>>
>
> Syria was badly stung by their experience in the early '80s
> when the Israelis sent drones over their territory to trick them into
> turning on their air defense radars. After they did so, more than 80%
> of their ground based radards were then destroyed by Israeli aircraft
> loitering just outside the detection ranges of those radars.
>
>>According to Knesset member and former chairman of the Foreign Affairs
>>and Defense Committee Yuval Steinitz, "It cannot be said that a
>>specific deal is a threat to Israel's security, but the main danger is
>>that it is a matter of a whole package of deals that gradually adds
>>up." Last year, Israel alleged to Moscow in confidential negotiations
>>that some of the arms it sold to Syria fell into the hands of the
>>Hezbollah and being used in the war in Lebanon last summer.
>>
>>The sale of Russian jets to Syria will undoubtedly have repercussions
>>in the West. Moscow is not likely to be concerned with American
>>criticism at the moment, since the main problem in U.S.-Russian
>>relations is the U.S. missile defense system in Eastern Europe. Now
>>the two issues may be discussed together.
>>
>>Iran's position on the missile defense system can be considered
>>indirect confirmation that it is deriving some sort of benefit from
>>the present deal. When Putin suggested to U.S. President George W.
>>Bush that they counter the Iranian threat by using the Gabala radar
>>station in Azerbaijan together, Tehran unexpectedly announced that it
>>does not consider Russia's proposal hostile and that it will not
>>affect Russia's good relations with Iran.
>>
>>What is the MiG-31?
>>
>>Development of the MiG-31 supersonic fighter-interceptor (Foxhound in
>>NATO classification) was begun by the Mikoyan Experimental Design
>>Bureau in 1968. The first test flights were performed in 1977 and it
>>went into service in 1981.
>>
>>The airplane was first created to defend the USSR from cruise missile
>>attacks from the Arctic. A number of weapons systems were used for the
>>first time in the USSR in the MiG-31, including the R-33 long-distance
>>(about 120 km.) air-to-air guided missile and the Zaslon radar system,
>
> NATO code-named "Flashdance". It was the first phased array
> radar system to be put on a fighter sized aircraft.
>
>>capable of locating its target at a distance of 180 km. and both guide
>>missiles to it and relay the information to other aircraft and ground
>>facilities.
>>
>>The MiG-31 has a two-man crew. Its combat radius is 720 km. (1400 km.
>>with external fuel tanks), maximum speed 3000 km./hr. and operational
>>ceiling of 20,600 m. It has a flight weight of 41 tons. Besides
>>missiles, the plane is armed with a 23-mm. gun and two or four short-
>>or medium-range missiles. The MiG-31 was produced at the Sokol plant
>>in Nizhny Novgorod until 1994. More than 500 planes were produced.
>>There are about 300 of them in the Russian Air Force at present and
>>about 40 in Kazakhstan.
>>
>>Several modifications of the plane have been developed, including the
>>MiG-31M (with a new 320-km. radar system) and MiG-31F (capable of
>>striking ground targets). The MiG-31 has not been used in combat and
>>has not been exported. There were media reported in the early 1990s of
>>interest from Syria, Libya and China in acquiring the aircraft, but no
>>contracts for it were signed.
>>
>>Konstantin Lantratov, Paris; Grigory Asmolov, Jerusalem; Alexandra
>>Gritskova, Mikhail Zygar
>>
>>http://www.kommersant.com/p775460/r_527/arms_trade_
>>
>>
>

 

[nobody]

Scotius (Ponti Fickatur) wrote:

>
>>with Syria this year for the delivery of five MiG-31E fighter-
>>interceptors.
>
> Good plane. It has a phased array radar (first ever on a
> fighter sized aircraft) that can be somewhat effective against
> certain types of stealth aircraft, as well as cruise missiles. Five
> of them wouldn't make a dent in the US capability though, and they'd
> be seen from satellite long before getting close enough to shoot
> down any US plane.
>



Watching US aggression over time, it appears that they fight as much
(or more) with propaganda than they do with arms. Basically, victim
nations will hunker down and just get plastered by wave after wave of
air power -- until their forces lose cohesiveness.

In the future, several things may put a stop to such strategies. The
minute an air denial weapon is perfected that stops aircraft from
flying, US aggression will be stopped flat. So, technology becomes a
wild card. Also, an opposition military driven by a berserker or a
brilliant strategist may stop US aggression flat. In this case, the
human factor comes into play.

I'm quite sure other factors are also possible.

 

[Scotius (Ponti Fickatur)]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 09:27:36 -0700, AirRaid <airraid1400@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Yea North Korea shutting down their nuclear program so innocently?
>Nope, they are proliferating, and I guarantee Syria isn't the only
>place that got some from Kim Jong Mentally Il. Bombing this secret
>nuke stash in Syria was pretty easy too. Iran will be next!
>
>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2461421.ece
>
>>From The Sunday Times
>September 16, 2007
>
>Israelis 'blew apart Syrian nuclear cache'
>Secret raid on Korean shipment
>
> IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is
>crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria's formidable air
>defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from
>the Iraqi border was under way.
>
>At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team
>was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the
>approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up
>position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in
>flames.
>
>Ten days after the jets reached home, their mission was the focus of
>intense speculation this weekend amid claims that Israel believed it
>had destroyed a cache of nuclear materials from North Korea.
>
>The Israeli government was not saying. "The security sources and IDF
>[Israeli Defence Forces] soldiers are demonstrating unusual courage,"
>said Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. "We naturally cannot always show
>the public our cards."
>
>The Syrians were also keeping mum. "I cannot reveal the details," said
>Farouk al-Sharaa, the vice-president. "All I can say is the military
>and political echelon is looking into a series of responses as we
>speak. Results are forthcoming." The official story that the target
>comprised weapons destined for Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Lebanese
>Shi'ite group, appeared to be crumbling in the face of widespread
>scepticism.
>
>Andrew Semmel, a senior US State Department official, said Syria might
>have obtained nuclear equipment from "secret suppliers", and added
>that there were a "number of foreign technicians" in the country.
>
>Asked if they could be North Korean, he replied: "There are North
>Korean people there. There's no question about that." He said a
>network run by AQ Khan, the disgraced creator of Pakistan's nuclear
>weapons, could be involved.
>
>But why would nuclear material be in Syria? Known to have chemical
>weapons, was it seeking to bolster its arsenal with something even
>more deadly?
>
>Alternatively, could it be hiding equipment for North Korea, enabling
>Kim Jong-il to pretend to be giving up his nuclear programme in
>exchange for economic aid?

North Korea is not in a position to give economic aid to ANY
country. The only thing North Korea has that it could possibly export
is nuclear and ballistic missile technology.
I also recall reading that North Korea was a member of a pact
of "emerging powers" that had pledged to cooperate together on nuclear
and ballistic missile technology in about the mid-'90s.

>Or was the material bound for Iran, as some
>authorities in America suggest?
>
>According to Israeli sources, preparations for the attack had been
>going on since late spring, when Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad,
>presented Olmert with evidence that Syria was seeking to buy a nuclear
>device from North Korea.
>
>The Israeli spy chief apparently feared such a device could eventually
>be installed on North-Korean-made Scud-C missiles.
>
>"This was supposed to be a devastating Syrian surprise for Israel,"
>said an Israeli source. "We've known for a long time that Syria has
>deadly chemical warheads on its Scuds, but Israel can't live with a
>nuclear warhead."
>
>An expert on the Middle East, who has spoken to Israeli participants
>in the raid, told yesterday's Washington Post that the timing of the
>raid on September 6 appeared to be linked to the arrival three days
>earlier of a ship carrying North Korean material labelled as cement
>but suspected of concealing nuclear equipment.
>
>The target was identified as a northern Syrian facility that purported
>to be an agricultural research centre on the Euphrates river. Israel
>had been monitoring it for some time, concerned that it was being used
>to extract uranium from phosphates.
>
>According to an Israeli air force source, the Israeli satellite Ofek
>7, launched in June, was diverted from Iran to Syria. It sent out
>high-
>quality images of a northeastern area every 90 minutes, making it easy
>for air force specialists to spot the facility.
>
>Early in the summer Ehud Barak, the defence minister, had given the
>order to double Israeli forces on its Golan Heights border with Syria
>in anticipation of possible retaliation by Damascus in the event of
>air strikes.
>
>Sergei Kirpichenko, the Russian ambassador to Syria, warned President
>Bashar al-Assad last month that Israel was planning an attack, but
>suggested the target was the Golan Heights.
>
>Israeli military intelligence sources claim Syrian special forces
>moved towards the Israeli outpost of Mount Hermon on the Golan
>Heights. Tension rose, but nobody knew why.
>
>At this point, Barak feared events could spiral out of control. The
>decision was taken to reduce the number of Israeli troops on the Golan
>Heights and tell Damascus the tension was over. Syria relaxed its
>guard shortly before the Israeli Defence Forces struck.
>
>Only three Israeli cabinet ministers are said to have been in the know
>? Olmert, Barak and Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister. America was
>also consulted. According to Israeli sources, American air force codes
>were given to the Israeli air force attach=E9 in Washington to ensure
>Israel's F15Is would not mistakenly attack their US counterparts.
>
>Once the mission was under way, Israel imposed draconian military
>censorship and no news of the operation emerged until Syria complained
>that Israeli aircraft had violated its airspace. Syria claimed its air
>defences had engaged the planes, forcing them to drop fuel tanks to
>lighten their loads as they fled.
>
>But intelligence sources suggested it was a highly successful Israeli
>raid on nuclear material supplied by North Korea.
>
>Washington was rife with speculation last week about the precise
>nature of the operation. One source said the air strikes were a
>diversion for a daring Israeli commando raid, in which nuclear
>materials were intercepted en route to Iran and hauled to Israel.
>Others claimed they were destroyed in the attack.
>
>There is no doubt, however, that North Korea is accused of nuclear
>cooperation with Syria, helped by AQ Khan's network. John Bolton, who
>was undersecretary for arms control at the State Department, told the
>United Nations in 2004 the Pakistani nuclear scientist had "several
>other" customers besides Iran, Libya and North Korea.
>
>Some of his evidence came from the CIA, which had reported to Congress
>that it viewed "Syrian nuclear intentions with growing concern".
>
>"I've been worried for some time about North Korea and Iran
>outsourcing their nuclear programmes," Bolton said last week. Syria,
>he added, was a member of a "junior axis of evil", with a well-
>established ambition to develop weapons of mass destruction.
>
>The links between Syria and North Korea date back to the rule of Kim
>Il-sung and President Hafez al-Assad in the last century. In recent
>months, their sons have quietly ordered an increase in military and
>technical cooperation.
>
>Foreign diplomats who follow North Korean affairs are taking note.
>There were reports of Syrian passengers on flights from Beijing to
>Pyongyang and sightings of Middle Eastern businessmen from sources who
>watch the trains from North Korea to China.
>
>On August 14, Rim Kyong Man, the North Korean foreign trade minister,
>was in Syria to sign a protocol on "cooperation in trade and science
>and technology". No details were released, but it caught Israel's
>attention.
>
>Syria possesses between 60 and 120 Scud-C missiles, which it has
>bought from North Korea over the past 15 years. Diplomats believe
>North Korean engineers have been working on extending their 300-mile
>range. It means they can be used in the deserts of northeastern Syria
>? the area of the Israeli strike.
>
>The triangular relationship between North Korea, Syria and Iran
>continues to perplex intelligence analysts. Syria served as a conduit
>for the transport to Iran of an estimated =A350m of missile components
>and technology sent by sea from North Korea. The same route may be in
>use for nuclear equipment.
>
>But North Korea is at a sensitive stage of negotiations to end its
>nuclear programme in exchange for security guarantees and aid, leading
>some diplomats to cast doubt on the likelihood that Kim would cross
>America's "red line" forbidding the proliferation of nuclear
>materials.
>
>Christopher Hill, the State Department official representing America
>in the talks, said on Friday he could not confirm "intelligence-type
>things", but the reports underscored the need "to make sure the North
>Koreans get out of the nuclear business".
>
>By its actions, Israel showed it is not interested in waiting for
>diplomacy to work where nuclear weapons are at stake.
>
>As a bonus, the Israelis proved they could penetrate the Syrian air
>defence system, which is stronger than the one protecting Iranian
>nuclear sites.
>
>This weekend President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran sent Ali Akbar
>Mehrabian, his nephew, to Syria to assess the damage. The new "axis of
>evil" may have lost one of its spokes.