Legal guns protect life again

[timesjoke]

They strode into the restaurant supply store in Harlem shortly after 3 p.m. on Thursday, four young men intent on robbery, one with a Glock 9-millimeter pistol, the police said. The place may have looked like an easy mark, a high-cash business with an owner in his 70s, known as a gentle, soft-spoken man.

But Charles Augusto Jr., the 72-year-old proprietor of the Kaplan Brothers Blue Flame Corporation, at 523 West 125th Street, near Amsterdam Avenue, had been robbed several times before, despite the fact that his shop is around the corner from the 26th Precinct station house on West 126th Street.

There were no customers in the store, only Mr. Augusto and two employees, a man and a woman. The police said the invaders announced a holdup, approached the two employees and tried to place plastic handcuffs on them. The male employee, a 35-year-old known in the community as J. B., struggled with the gunman, who then hit him on the head with the pistol.

Watching it happen, Mr. Augusto, whom neighborhood friends call Gus, rose from a chair 20 to 30 feet away and took out a loaded Winchester 12-gauge pump-action shotgun with a pistol-grip handle. The police said he bought it after a robbery 30 years ago.

Mr. Augusto, who has never been in trouble with the law, fired three blasts in rapid succession, the police said, although Vernon McKenzie, working at an Internet company next door, heard only two booms, loud enough to send him rushing to a window, where he heard someone shout: ?You?re dead! You?re dead!?

The first shot took down the gunman at the front. He died almost immediately, according to the police, who said he was 29 and had been arrested for gun possession in Queens last year and was the nephew of a police officer.

Mr. Augusto?s other two blasts hit all three accomplices, who stumbled out the door, bleeding.

One of them, a 21-year-old, staggered across 125th Street and collapsed in front of the General Grant Houses, a nine-building complex with 4,500 residents, one of the city?s biggest housing projects. Someone called 911, and an ambulance rushed him to St. Luke?s-Roosevelt Hospital Center, where he was dead on arrival. The police said he had a record of arrests for weapons possession and robbery.

Another wounded man left a blood trail that the police followed to 125th Street and Amsterdam Avenue. The fourth wounded man was picked up, on the basis of witness descriptions, at 128th Street and St. Nicholas Terrace. Both were taken to St. Luke?s.

Full story: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/nyregion/14shoot.html?_r=1&hp



This is a prime example of how at best, the police are janitors, they cannot protect you from harm or stop the "bad guys" before they attack the innocent. If you do not protect yourself, you are at best a victim, at worse dead.


This happened on the same block as a police station, if they can't protect a block, they cannot protect anything.

 

[Ahhlee]

I want to learn how to shoot a gun.

It's on my "to do" list.

 

[hugo]

This happened on the same block as a police station, if they can't protect a block, they cannot protect anything.

Actually, they do a good job of protecting themselves from being verbally abused by pint-size college professors.

 

[timesjoke]

I want to learn how to shoot a gun.

It's on my "to do" list.

Women actually learn faster than men most of the time. Men have this macho thing where they don't listen too well while women usually have never fired a gun before and are very attentive when your teaching them.

Some women do have issues trying to line up their sights under pressure, but those I teach to 'point shoot'. Women tend to use their finger to point at things/people when their giving a lecture or angry, I tell them to pretend the barrel is their finger.......almost always works with women who are mothers, lol.

Actually, they do a good job of protecting themselves from being verbally abused by pint-size college professors.

Hey, you have come a long way Hugo, at least now your able to admit the guy was being verbally abusive, before you pretended like the guy was all innocent and never did anything wrong, lol.

But alas, your wrong again, the cop was powerless to prevent the abuse, all the cop could do, all any cop can do is react to abuse already performed

 

[snafu]

I want to learn how to shoot a gun.

It's on my "to do" list.

You don't have to learn how to shoot a Mossberg or a "pistol griped 12 gage shot gun."
You point and shoot...
It's ing cool!


It's thee best self defense, home protection weapon out there.

 

[snafu]

Actually, they do a good job of protecting themselves from being verbally abused by pint-size college professors.

Ha ha.. yeah their Johny on the spot then.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Women actually learn faster than men most of the time. Men have this macho thing where they don't listen too well while women usually have never fired a gun before and are very attentive when your teaching them.

Some women do have issues trying to line up their sights under pressure, but those I teach to 'point shoot'. Women tend to use their finger to point at things/people when their giving a lecture or angry, I tell them to pretend the barrel is their finger.......almost always works with women who are mothers, lol.

True. Very true.

I have never, ever, ever pointed my finger down the road when asked for directions to the fukken shooting range.

Hey, you have come a long way Hugo, at least now your able to admit the guy was being verbally abusive, before you pretended like the guy was all innocent and never did anything wrong, lol.

But alas, your wrong again, the cop was powerless to prevent the abuse, all the cop could do, all any cop can do is react to abuse already performed

You're just a little boy scout.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

I sleep with my Smith and Wesson 686 under my pillow.

Yes, a revolver. All but two of my firearms are revolvers, but I prefer a knife.

 

[snafu]

I sleep with my Smith and Wesson 686 under my pillow.

Yes, a revolver. All but two of my firearms are revolvers, but I prefer a knife.

Yeah you and I who are professionals at the art of self defense require a weapon to preference . I like my 1911 Colt 45. Automatic man, auto's. I've only owned one revolver in my day but I do like them.
I was just pointing out the mer fact that nothing out there is easier to learn how to use than a Mossberg.
This guy had the floor covered in blood and I bet the guy never even shot the damn thing before.
Ali could buy one and be comfortable without learning to shoot.

 

[snafu]

The best gun this guy could'a had against four gunned assailants would be a "pistol gripped pump action 12 gage".

I'm tellin ya....

I rest my case.

 

[timesjoke]

I have many guns, my favorite for an every day gun is my Glock 20c, meat and potatoes.

I prefer wheelguns for bullseye, like my S&W 19-3. The K frame is lighter than the N frame.

 

[ImWithStupid]

You don't have to learn how to shoot a Mossberg or a "pistol griped 12 gage shot gun."
You point and shoot...

Well then, you're either an idiot, or very misguided on the use of a shotgun for defense/tactical use.

 

[ImWithStupid]

My Glock 23 at my bedside is only a means to get me to my M-4.

Fukk the Brady assault weapons ban.

 

[timesjoke]

Well then, you're either an idiot, or very misguided on the use of a shotgun for defense/tactical use.

I believe he was talking about target type shooting.

You don't have to be very accurate to hit your target. Take this real life situation, the guy purchased the shotgun many years ago and never used it until this day where he put three shots to perfect use without any training or practice.


But, the 'spread' of the shots can cause you to be more likely to hit something, or someone you didn't intend to hit. Say if someone was walking outside on the sidewalk and one of the pellets had hit them.

If you have the barrel pointed in the general right direction, you will hit them, or at the very least. make them their pants. The sound of a shotgun slide loading the weapon is the universal "oh sh!t" signal for all badguys

 

[phreakwars]

Not really into handguns myself. I just own rifles. Got my 30-30, my .22, and my m-44 with a cool looking bayonet. If I was gonna use one to take someone out, it would be the m44. Damn thing sounds like a cannon going off. Only bad part is it's kind of slow and awkward to reload/refire. Been teaching my son this summer to use a gun as well. He has hyperlexia, and the sound of the guns scare him, so I've started him out with the pellet gun with no pellets so he gets used to holding it and the loud noise. I'm thinking once I can get him past that I can get him to be an excellent marksmen. I think everybody should learn how to use a firearm.
.
.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

I believe he was talking about target type shooting.

You don't have to be very accurate to hit your target. Take this real life situation, the guy purchased the shotgun many years ago and never used it until this day where he put three shots to perfect use without any training or practice.


But, the 'spread' of the shots can cause you to be more likely to hit something, or someone you didn't intend to hit. Say if someone was walking outside on the sidewalk and one of the pellets had hit them.

If you have the barrel pointed in the general right direction, you will hit them, or at the very least. make them their pants. The sound of a shotgun slide loading the weapon is the universal "oh sh!t" signal for all badguys

Oh yeah... Joe or Jane Homeowner behind a scattergun can suddenly hit the broad side of a barn.

 

[timesjoke]

Bender, they make electronic hearing protection that work well with teaching people how to shoot and who want to block out the loud noise.

Electronic Hearing Protection - Pro Ears, Peltor, Walker Game Ear

The idea is you can talk normally and be heard but the loud noises are blocked. I have several pair, work great for the races as well?

Oh yeah... Joe or Jane Homeowner behind a scattergun can suddenly hit the broad side of a barn.

Actually they can. I never said they could skeet shoot, just that a shotgun was easier to use for protection than a handgun, as this real world example proves.

One of the biggest reasons is the adrenaline rush that hits in a time of crisis will also have a handgun shaking all over the place. Two hands on a shotgun is much easier to keep steady and pointing it in the right direction is very instinctive.


Also when it comes to self protection, the point is to stop the attacker by placing the energy of the bullet into the body. A 9mm is a nice round, but in close range it more often than not passes through the assailant and does not displace it's energy into the body. A shotgun is pellets moving very slow, their energy is more often than not completely discharged into the target causing a lot of damage and stopping the attacker very well.

 

[Ahhlee]

The closest I've ever come to shooting a gun was at a laser rifle range. I got a perfect score and my friend said I should learn how to shoot a real gun because he thought I had potential to be a good marksman.

I've asked my male friends to teach me about guns, help me pick one out, take me out to the firing range, etc...but none of them have made the time so I've pretty much given up on learning around here.

Once I move, I'd like to learn more about guns and hopefully purchase my first. I'd also like to take a self-defense course and perhaps even try archery.

I figure if I'm brave enough to move to a more urban, crime ridden area where I don't know a soul, then I'd best be brave enough to protect myself when I get there, cuz ain't nobody gonna do it for me!

...........

Comment #1000! w00t!

 

[timesjoke]

Well we know the police can't protect you, but they will be glad to dispose of your body after the fact, lol.


Even after you get basic training make sure to go out every now and then to practice with your gun. Many people get a gun, maybe shoot it a couple times when they buy it then put it away never to touch it again until they need it.

 

[snafu]

Well then, you're either an idiot, or very misguided on the use of a shotgun for defense/tactical use.

I'm sure your just being facetious. I'm quite aware of what a Mossberg can do. This guy had no problem operating it and it was pretty damn effective.

Oh yeah... Joe or Jane Homeowner behind a scattergun can suddenly hit the broad side of a barn.

All Joe or Jane Homeowner needs to do is point it down the hall and they win.