Obama Snubs Injured Soldiers for a Workout, Will Media Care?

[snafu]

Yes, we should ignore China's human rights record just so they will like us.

Thank you very much. Why did it take Hugo (like always to put it in to perspective?) So Chi should we ignore China's human rights? Is Obama going to turn his ugly head and bury it in the sand? He's full of !

You people ridding the Obama bandwagon are gonna be sorry if he becomes president. He blows left to right depending on the wind. So none of us know what he will do.

And maybe the analogy should'a been Mosses instead of the Messiah. Leading his people out of Egypt and into the promised land.

 

[Anna Perenna]

Thank you very much. Why did it take Hugo (like always to put it in to perspective?) So Chi should we ignore China's human rights? Is Obama going to turn his ugly head and bury it in the sand? He's full of !
You people ridding the Obama bandwagon are gonna be sorry if he becomes president. He blows left to right depending on the wind. So none of us know what he will do.

And maybe the analogy should'a been Mosses instead of the Messiah. Leading his people out of Egypt and into the promised land.

What about the human rights record of the USA? Get off your high horses.

The bottom line is, it would be very unwise not to make nice with China.

 

[ImWithStupid]

What about the human rights record of the USA? Get off your high horses.
The bottom line is, it would be very unwise not to make nice with China.

Could you please elaborate on this?

 

[Anna Perenna]

Could you please elaborate on this?

Sure.

China has lots of money and a huge armed force.

Your next president would be stupid not to try again to forge a free trade agreement, among other things.

 

[ImWithStupid]

Sure.
China has lots of money and a huge armed force.

Your next president would be stupid not to try again to forge a free trade agreement, among other things.

I meant about the US human rights violations.

So you say that we should ignore these violations in China in order to continue to get cheap stuff at the expense of near slave labor, because China appears to have money and a powerful military?

 

[Anna Perenna]

I meant about the US human rights violations.
So you say that we should ignore these violations in China in order to continue to get cheap stuff at the expense of near slave labor, because China appears to have money and a powerful military?

I'm saying the USA is in no position to snub China on the grounds of 'human rights violations' because your own human rights track record is far from perfect.

A fitting and current example being the invasion of Iraq (including atrocities at Abu Ghraib). I'll gladly list more.

Besides, the USA isn't the country with the choice in the matter. Your economy is in the toilet and you need help. China/India aren't going to agree to free-trade with you until you work on your negotiation skills.

 

[ImWithStupid]

I'm saying the USA is in no position to snub China on the grounds of 'human rights violations' because your own human rights track record is far from perfect.

Should we ask the Aborigines about your record?

A fitting and current example being the invasion of Iraq (including atrocities at Abu Ghraib). I'll gladly list more.

The invasion of Iraq was by more than the US and included Australia. As for Abu Ghraib, that isn't indicitive of the country as a whole. I'm not condoning what happened but maybe educate yourself on the Stanford Prison Experiment and it will help you understand what happened there. Just like Stockholm Syndrome, people go out of their normal behavior in certain situations. Again, those who treated those prisoners unfairly deserve to be punished but scientific date explains what happened.

Besides, the USA isn't the country with the choice in the matter. Your economy is in the toilet and you need help. China/India aren't going to agree to free-trade with you until you work on your negotiation skills.

Don't flatter yourself. Ask any economist, even with a slower economy the US consumer still drives the global economy. In fact everyone better hope things get better here or things will get tough all over.

 

[Anna Perenna]

Should we ask the Aborigines about your record?

What's your point? We have a good relationship with China and our free-trade negotiations seem to be going well. Our PM even speaks Mandarin.

The invasion of Iraq was by more than the US and included Australia. As for Abu Ghraib, that isn't indicitive of the country as a whole. I'm not condoning what happened but maybe educate yourself on the Stanford Prison Experiment and it will help you understand what happened there. Just like Stockholm Syndrome, people go out of their normal behavior in certain situations. Again, those who treated those prisoners unfairly deserve to be punished but scientific date explains what happened.

So?

Don't flatter yourself.

Am I Chinese, now?

Ask any economist, even with a slower economy the US consumer still drives the global economy. In fact everyone better hope things get better here or things will get tough all over.

Ok ....

July 30, 2008

GENEVA — World trade talks collapsed here on Tuesday after seven years of on-again, off-again negotiations, in the latest sign of India’s and China’s growing might on the world stage and the decreasing ability of the United States to impose its will globally.

“The feeling went from ‘Who cares?’ to a surge of excitement and sense of breakthrough to ‘Oh, no, not again,’ ” said Rory Macrae, a partner at GPlus Europe, a communications consulting firm in Brussels, who was on the sidelines of the negotiations in Geneva.

He said the sticking point this time was countries like China and India, which have become more aggressive in advancing their interests. “Maybe they’re now thinking, ‘We’re big enough that we don’t even need the process,’ ” Mr. Macrae said.

Mari Elka Pangestu, the Indonesian trade minister, said the failure of the talks reflected the inability of the rich industrial powers to deal with the growing influence of China, India and Brazil in the global economy.

She complained that what she called “a reasonable request” had been blocked because the United States “is not going to show flexibility.”

After 7 Years, Talks on Trade Collapse - NYTimes.com

 

[ImWithStupid]

What's your point? We have a good relationship with China and our free-trade negotiations seem to be going well. Our PM even speaks Mandarin.

I think it quite hypocritical of you to sit here and defend China's continued humanl rights violations, including the near slave labor still in use.

You are on another forum claiming that we should do something about global warming, yet China is the worlds largest emitter of carbon, and increasing fast.

I guess in your opinion, as long as you can still get your stuff from China cheap, they can do whatever they want, but everyone else should fall in line.

As for the US consumer's affect on the global economy...

The global economy is too dependent on exports to the United States, whose trade deficit was $765.3 billion in 2006, while Asia and Europe lack sufficient domestic demand to offset reduced U.S. spending on overseas goods, says Stephen Roach, chief economist at Morgan Stanley in New York.
The United States accounts for 24 percent of Japan's total exports, 84 percent of Canada's, 86 percent of Mexico's and about 40 percent of China's, he says.

Just as China is dependent on the United States, other countries rely on Asia's second-largest economy. So a U.S. slowdown that hurts China will reverberate in Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and commodity producers such as Russia, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and Brazil.

World still needs the U.S. consumer - International Herald Tribune

like I said, as the US economy falls, so does that of most of the world.

 

[wez]

As for the US consumer's affect on the global economy...

...like I said, as the US economy falls, so does that of most of the world.

Then the worlds in deep sh t cause practically everyone I know has a long ways to go just to get to broke, let alone wield any economical clout to save the world economy..

 

[ImWithStupid]

Then the worlds in deep sh t cause practically everyone I know has a long ways to go just to get to broke, let alone wield any economical clout to save the world economy..

Exactly, and Congress appears to be doing nearly everything they can to make sure things just get horribly worse.

 

[wez]

Exactly, and Congress appears to be doing nearly everything they can to make sure things just get horribly worse.

Seems to be the plan... now the question is, why?

Must have some new world order in mind.. Or are panicking in the knowledge that their gravy train has reached it's destination... ****.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Must have some new world order in mind..

Oh yeah... Plan 9 From Outer Space.

The one that involves ***-raping every single American.

 

[wez]

Oh yeah... Plan 9 From Outer Space.

The one that involves ***-raping every single American.

Hahahahaha.... Yep, people don't manipulate human activities through politics.. never have, never will.

Everyone knows people don't take advantage of other people..

You just keep going to work.. everything is fine..

 

[Anna Perenna]

I think it quite hypocritical of you to sit here and defend China's continued humanl rights violations, including the near slave labor still in use.

I don't recall defending their human rights record. I find it really lame that because your argument is flawed and you can't handle a simple criticism of the USA that you're stooping to painting me in a false light.

You are on another forum claiming that we should do something about global warming, yet China is the worlds largest emitter of carbon, and increasing fast.
I guess in your opinion, as long as you can still get your stuff from China cheap, they can do whatever they want, but everyone else should fall in line.

Stop making false assumptions - and don't project your bull on to me!

All I've said here is that your country WANTS to trade with China, because China is very big and powerful, but China is refusing to trade with you (not the other way around, and certainly not because of their human rights record) because your country sucks at negotiations and frankly, it's beginning to look a lot like China simply doesn't need you.

 

[ImWithStupid]

I don't recall defending their human rights record. I find it really lame that because your argument is flawed and you can't handle a simple criticism of the USA that you're stooping to painting me in a false light.
Stop making false assumptions - and don't project your bull on to me!

So when you criticized snaf for denouncing China's "current" civil rights issues, and comparing them to those that occured in the US, 50 to 150 years ago, you weren't defending China?

When you bragged about your country's trade relations with China, even though they are an oppressive, racist, opprssive country that is also the highest emitter of carbon, when you preach about how we should reduce carbon for the sake of "global warming", I'm not supposed to call you on it. If you can't see the correlation to your posts, you should take a step back and review them.

I'm not projecting any bullsh1t, I'm just calling it as I see it.

All I've said here is that your country WANTS to trade with China, because China is very big and powerful, but China is refusing to trade with you (not the other way around, and certainly not because of their human rights record) because your country sucks at negotiations and frankly, it's beginning to look a lot like China simply doesn't need you.

As for you bragging that Australia has a good relationship with China and your claim that, "your country WANTS to trade with China, because China is very big and powerful, but China is refusing to trade with you", I'd suggest you check the statistics.

The US is the buyer for approximately 40% of China's goods.

 

[Anna Perenna]

So when you criticized snaf for denouncing China's "current" civil rights issues, and comparing them to those that occured in the US, 50 to 150 years ago, you weren't defending China?

Your country is currently in Iraq. What's this 50-150 year timeframe you're talking about?

I still don't see how comparing your own human rights record to China's equates to defending them.

I'm denouncing both your and Snafu's point that you 'shouldn't make nice' with China due to their human rights violations because

a) As if you care about human rights violations. The USA makes nice with some of the worst offending countries in the world - Saudi Arabia is a prime example. End of hypocritical self righteous ****-talk.

b) Your economy needs a free trade agreement with China.

When you bragged about your country's trade relations with China, even though they are an oppressive, racist, opprssive country that is also the highest emitter of carbon, when you preach about how we should reduce carbon for the sake of "global warming", I'm not supposed to call you on it. If you can't see the correlation to your posts, you should take a step back and review them.
I'm not projecting any bullsh1t, I'm just calling it as I see it.

As for you bragging that Australia has a good relationship with China and your claim that, "your country WANTS to trade with China, because China is very big and powerful, but China is refusing to trade with you", I'd suggest you check the statistics.

The US is the buyer for approximately 40% of China's goods.

Well, you see it wrong.

I'm not bragging - how insulting - I'm merely explaining that we have a free trade agreement with China because we can see how important it is. We also have a free trade agreement with the USA, even though the final agreement puts us at a disadvantage, and you still haven't ratified the Kyoto protocol, and your carbon footprint is utterly shameful.

In other words, and please try to understand my main point this time because it's boring having to re-explain myself:

You 'making nice' and Australia 'making nice' with China has absolutely nothing to do with their environmental laws or human rights violations.

p.s. You know I meant "free" trade.

 

[snafu]

You 'making nice' and Australia 'making nice' with China has absolutely nothing to do with their environmental laws or human rights violations.

I think you have civil rights and war mixed up. You don't get civil rights when your blowing up inocent people at market places. We are not deprviing any Iraqi's of there civil rights. Being "nice" or buying China's products you in fact are contributing to thier human rights violations. Why do you think thier products are so cheap? Slave labor is why.

 

[Anna Perenna]

I think you have civil rights and war mixed up. You don't get civil rights when your blowing up inocent people at market places. We are not deprviing any Iraqi's of there civil rights. Being "nice" or buying China's products you in fact are contributing to thier human rights violations. Why do you think thier products are so cheap? Slave labor is why.

I've mixed up nothing - you, on the other hand, are still missing the point.

The USA violated the people of Iraq's human rights by illegally invading their country.

And my point is: the USA has been trying to negotiate a free trade agreement with China for 7 years. Ergo, the USA wants a free trade agreement with China.

 

[Old Salt]

I've mixed up nothing - you, on the other hand, are still missing the point.
The USA violated the people of Iraq's human rights by illegally invading their country.

And my point is: the USA has been trying to negotiate a free trade agreement with China for 7 years. Ergo, the USA wants a free trade agreement with China.

George Bush and the one-worlders want free trade agreements with the entire world. I think he'd negotiate one with Iran and/or Zimbabwe, if he could get away with it.