Obama still does not get it

[timesjoke]

I had to take time out of my weekend to comment on the latest great example of how Progressives just don't understand what America is supposed to be.


During comments this weekend Obama said this:

"That's how America will win the future by out innovating, out educating and out building our competitors"

And just how exactly do we do that Mr President?


Innovating costs big money but you Progressives want to eliminate any incentive to innovate by punishing people who make a profit off their investments severely. At the same time you change rules midstream costing business millions of dollars to try and keep up with these rules.


Out-educating? Really? Depending on what set of scores you look at America rates around 14th in the world in reading, 17th for science, and a miserable 25th for math. We have a society where being mediocre is actually a goal.


Out-building? Does that mean hard work? Look at these other Nations like China and see how those people work and tell me again that we can out work them. They work their azz off for almost no pay, that is why we can't compete.




Even if Americans do get better educated, invent great new products, we can't actually produce these new things here in America. By the time we build the new factories and pay the Union employees, and conform to the millions of Government regulations, we will not be able to compete with Countries like China who don't have Unions and Government regulations that drive up the cost of production.

 

[jokersarewild]

It's all bullshit buzzwords. Saying we'll beat China (any time in the near future) is a load of crap, and Obama has to know it. Or he's insane. One of the two.

 

[wez]

What the f do you expect Obama to do, bring back slavery? Start dumping mercury into the drinking water again?

I find it hilarious that whatever ****ing political label you wanna call yourself cries like a schoolgirl when someone beats you at your own game..

Face it.. China is better at being "American" than you are.. Communist China.. the Kings of Crapitalism.. want someone to blame? Look in the ****ing mirror.. they get your job, you get a bunch of cheap plastic sh t from Walmart.. waaaaaaaaaa .. only thing that matters is green.. right TJ?

Our country was sold out to the highest bidder before most of us were even born.. "Greatest generation" my ass.. second in self serving selfishness only to their kids.. the baby boomers.. the greediest generation in the history of the world.

Enlighten me.. what exacty is America "suppose to be"?

 

[phreakwars]

Just accept it, and start eating more Chinese. America is doomed. Nobody (mainly Americans) want to invest in America's future by educating kids or leading the way in innovation. It's an evil tax that would be better suited giving people more money and making them pay 100% of their child's education. Yeah, that'll work. People will be able to afford it once their fair earning wage is cut so their boss can hire more employees at a substandard wage and lower education level as well.. Then we'll ALL be rich, just you wait!! Those who can actually afford an education because they pull themselves up by the bootstraps and worked for it themselves will save us and create jobs for the millions of undereducated monkeys there will be to fill those positions that didn't require some form of higher education and innovative thiniking bought and paid for by small business owners and large corporations..

Do I about have that summed up right? Tell me how this great TJ vision of utopia works.

I'm not calling it a bad idea or disagreeing with you, mind you... Like WEZ, I just want more in-site on how things "SHOULD BE"
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[hugo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

We are kicking Chinas' ass. They get jobs because they are poorer than crap. They give us goods for pieces of paper.

 

[phreakwars]

http://en.wikipedia....by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

We are kicking Chinas' ass. They get jobs because they are poorer than crap. They give us goods for pieces of paper.

It makes me wonder why people bitch about things like government spending and debt to our ****ing grandchildren when money, although can be seen in a form of paper, is basically meaningless in a world currency.

We could all be dirt poor living in huts owing the world a living... they still need us to keep busy pleasing them for payment on an empty deal.

In the mean time, we still have our own to worry about. The free market doesn't educate a population, you need to AT LEAST provide sufficient education to keep a small amount confined to the trailer courts and boondocks. The free market won't help keep that number from becoming massive.

The worlds problem will always be too much wealth accumulation going to too few people... education is one of those wealths, share the wealth or suffer the consequence later on. Otherwise, soon your country is a trailer park, not just your end of city limits.
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[atlantic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

We are kicking Chinas' ass. They get jobs because they are poorer than crap. They give us goods for pieces of paper.

Yeah, products full of lead and toxic material. Everything from drywall to vitamins. Tell me who are the real idiots :ninja:

 

[hugo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

We are kicking Chinas' ass. They get jobs because they are poorer than crap. They give us goods for pieces of paper.

Yeah, products full of lead and toxic material. Everything from drywall to vitamins. Tell me who are the real idiots :ninja:

I will bet the stuff is in Chinese homes and no one is complaining. We are a nation of whiners.

 

[timesjoke]

Do I about have that summed up right? Tell me how this great TJ vision of utopia works.

I'm not calling it a bad idea or disagreeing with you, mind you... Like WEZ, I just want more in-site on how things "SHOULD BE"
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Time and time again people try to educate people like you and you are simply impervious to the concept of the capitalist system. I do not have the eloquence to get through to you Phreak, IWS and everyone else has tried to teach you, how many times have we posted things like this from Milton Friedman:

Milton explains the benefits of free markets and the dangers of an all powerful Government regulating our way out of jobs better then I do and if you still can't understand the concept there is not much more me or anyone else can do.


Put simply we have lost our industry and most our skilled jobs because of Government. These jobs are shipped to places like China because those places do not have the regulations that America has.




If we want to improve things, we need to get Government out of the way.

 

[timesjoke]

The forum only allows two media files to be posted in one post so here are some more if anyone wants to see the entire interview:

 

[timesjoke]

Last one:

Remember, compare our "poor" with places where the Government does control everything such as cuba and you see that in that comparison, the American system clearly gives more to the poor that they do.

 

[phreakwars]

Yeah, so, you idolize Friedman, why should I or anybody else give two shits about what HE thinks?

How about telling us what YOU think.

Hows this utopia work out for those who can't afford an education?

I mean, you started out this topic strong with:

Progressives just don't understand what America is supposed to be.

Then followed up with all the COMPLAINTS about the progressives, but I'm not seeing the counter Utopia your telling us it's "SUPPOSED TO BE"

OK TJ YOUR PERFECT WORLD HAPPENS, THE GOVERNMENT IS OUT OF YOUR WAY, HOW DO YOU EDUCATE THE MASSES IN THIS GREAT SOCIETY OF YOURS TO CREATE INOVATION?

Please, no more Friedman propaganda needed.
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[timesjoke]

I see you don't even try to see and pay attention to what he says, sticking your head in the sand and wearing blinders from the truth will only get you so far my friend. You should care about what he says because he is right. Take his point about how much even the poor have in our society. Look around the world and give me an example of where the poor have more under a system not at least partly dedicated to free markets and capitalism?


First of all where did I or anyone else say we should be living in a Utopia Phreak? I don't see that promise in the Constitution do you? Where is a promise of perfection or an easy life? This is the real problem you Progressives have, you think someone other then yourself should "fix" life for you and others. America was not created to be a day care facility Phreak, it was based on the concepts of freedoms and personal responsibility. But, the more freedoms we have, the more each of us has to do for ourselves to survive and prosper. Many years ago, we had almost no Government intervention and massive innovations and freedoms in America. Today we have massive Government and little innovations and a lot of lazy people in America.......The F.B.I. would call that a clue.



Let's look at the example you talk of, education.


Do you even know who started education to the masses in America? Do you? You will hate the answer Phreak.



Religion. Religious people wanted other people able to read so the word of their faith could be spread. The mass majority of people who could read was because of religion. You always hear about the "little red school house" and while they were not all red it is true that each community would support their local small school, and do you know where the schools were locatred Phreak? Either in or next to the local church.



Local communities did not support the school because of Government mandates, they did it because it was the right thing to do.



So what did our all powerful Government do with the idea? Today we spend around 1/4 of our education budget on the buracracy to keep the schools running. We spend more money on lunches than we do on school supplies. Why can't a kid take a sandwich for lunch and eliminate the school lunch program completely? What does sex education have to do with getting educated? Most 12 year olds could most likely teach the class these days.....the examples can go on forever but the point is we let the Government run wild and the result is lower standards, when I was a kid you had to score a 95 to get an "A" today you get the same "A" for a score of 90, why? Why did the Government lower standards?






You see Phreak, with an all powerful Government, nothing is ever enough. First one thing then the next off into a never ending crusade to remake America into what they feel it should be instead of what it is. With great risk goes great reward and great penalties.


You Progressives always seem to want to save people from themselves, and that is an impossible agenda. You can't "fix" the lives of other people, they must do the work themselves. What you Progressives seem to want is to put all Americans into cages like rabbits, let us eat and sh!t, mate and have children all under your microscope, you give us what you want us to have to eat and drink and while we will survive and live, we will never be free.

 

[wez]

You see Phreak, with an all powerful Government, nothing is ever enough. First one thing then the next off into a never ending crusade to remake America into what they feel it should be instead of what it is. With great risk goes great reward and great penalties.


You Progressives always seem to want to save people from themselves, and that is an impossible agenda. You can't "fix" the lives of other people, they must do the work themselves. What you Progressives seem to want is to put all Americans into cages like rabbits, let us eat and sh!t, mate and have children all under your microscope, you give us what you want us to have to eat and drink and while we will survive and live, we will never be free.

Funny coming from a guy who wants the big bad lawmakers to lord over vagina's and uterus's..

 

[timesjoke]

Funny coming from a guy who wants the big bad lawmakers to lord over vagina's and uterus's..

Our Government has always been in the business of enforcing community morals Wez, but America never was intended to be a day care facility.



Killing an innocent life was always considered immoral up to recent times where science and selfishness came together to allow women to kill their children just because the child is inconvenient. Now instead of two people being responsible when they copulate, they rut like unthinking animals in heat and simply kill the baby if one is created from their "choice" to have unprotected sex.



This stuff from Progressives is all about greed and envy, nothing else. Even in this thread Phreak shows how the real motivation for Progressives is their own greed, "The worlds problem will always be too much wealth accumulation going to too few people".

Progressives are jealous of people who have more than them, they claim it is unfair for someone to make more money than they make so they paint the people with more than them as "evil". The question is, at what point in history has it ever been any different? Most people can't hold onto money, it is a shame but that is true. Almost all people who "win" the lottery go bankrupt....why? If just tossing money at the poor was the solution why is it every time a poor person gets money they loose it all? How many years have we been throwing money to people on Welfare just to watch the number of people taking the money explode? Welfare breeds more welfare.


How about all those people who get their income tax check and go out and blow every cent within days of getting it? Most even pay extra money to get a "loan" on their return so they can spend it faster at a huge penalty. They could put that money in the bank, or invest it, but they don't. It is all about instant gratification and that is why 99% of poor people will stay poor.





If you go out and steal money from someone else to put in your own pocket that is called theft and you can go to jail. If you get the Government to do it for you it is called being a Progressive/Democrat.

 

[phreakwars]

You noticed he totally dodged the question of "HOW WILL THE MASSES GET EDUCATED"

I ask how that all works in his perfect world, and he starts off ranting about the evil progressive world.

Totally avoiding what I ask him... but of course we are the ones who "CAN'T SEE"

I guess his answer must be RELIGION will teach the children, he was ranting off about schools next to churches or some ****.

Hey what about people who would rather educate their children without a ****ing bible thumper feeding their kids a bunch of bullshit?

They must PAY for having no religion? They have to provide in their own way? What way would that be?

Elaborate more on this TJ world.

I ain't gonna watch that Friedman bullshit unless you can point out which boring video out of all 5, he talks about how we educate the masses in a free market, government out of the way, system.
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[wez]

So.. what you're saying is it's greedy and selfish to be responsible for, and in control of ones own reproductive organs, but not greedy to withhold life's necessities from all the new legislatively born citizens for lack of money because most likely the vast majority will be extremely poor, neglected and abandoned?

In addition, it's not greedy or selfish to exploit the most vulnerable people among us for financial gain by returning to open slavery and a Cuban social security plan?

I don't wanna live in TJ-ville

By the way, pretty sure one of the main intentions of the constitution is NOT imposing religious morals on the entire lot of citizens. I think I recall sumpin' about separation of church and state. Or was that Russia? I forget..

How about you and your supporters adopt, care for, educate, house, and feed all the neglected and abandoned children already born? Or do ya wanna just round em up like cattle for auctions?

 

[jokersarewild]

So.. what you're saying is it's greedy and selfish to be responsible for, and in control of ones own reproductive organs, but not greedy to withhold life's necessities from all the new legislatively born citizens for lack of money because most likely the vast majority will be extremely poor, neglected and abandoned?

In addition, it's not greedy or selfish to exploit the most vulnerable people among us for financial gain by returning to open slavery and a Cuban social security plan?

I don't wanna live in TJ-ville

By the way, pretty sure one of the main intentions of the constitution is NOT imposing religious morals on the entire lot of citizens. I think I recall sumpin' about separation of church and state. Or was that Russia? I forget..

How about you and your supporters adopt, care for, educate, house, and feed all the neglected and abandoned children already born? Or do ya wanna just round em up like cattle for auctions?

Well Wez, since the US Constitution does not have the phrase "separation of church and state," you might be thinking of Russia. The "separation of church and state" phrase was used in a letter Jefferson wrote, but not the US Constitution.

And I fully endorse a society where the top 1% are rich and the rest of the people are uneducated, abandoned schmucks. Thing is, I only support it if I'm in the top 1%.

 

[timesjoke]

You noticed he totally dodged the question of "HOW WILL THE MASSES GET EDUCATED"

I ask how that all works in his perfect world, and he starts off ranting about the evil progressive world.

Totally avoiding what I ask him... but of course we are the ones who "CAN'T SEE"

Dodge? Me? Unlike yourself I dodge nothing, I answered the question but you can't handle the answer so you are now busy trying to remake the question to save face.



Speaking about dodging a question, I am still waiting on you to answer my question about why the new healthcare bill had to have sweet special deals included like the one where Unions are exempt from the new taxes on their healthcare plans but everyone else has to pay those new taxes? What did those special deals have to do with helping the poor who did not have insurance?




I will make the answer more simple being as you are trying to pretend to not see the answer: The people in the community will handle educating their own children just like they did long before big Government bullied their way into things and messed it all up. The schools in the past were run by private donations from the community to the school and they took care of the teacher, many cases building a home for free to live in etc..... Also, have you ever heard of something called "home school"? That is where the parents of a child teaches their own child at home. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against a public school system being run by the Government, but the problem is they spend so much time on the buracracy and things that have no9thing to do with an education that the vast majority of the money they spend is wasted. Give that money back to those who earn it and let us take care of our own needs to include educating our youth.


There is nothing stopping atheists like you from building your own schools just like the Christians Phreak. The problem is, only Christians are willing to give to community without a big Government gun held to their heads. Just like welfare, even after massive taxes Christians donate 99% all of the money supporting things like soup kitchens and food banks. Christians run all the programs trying to help people in far away places like Darfur, not one Atheist is out there doing that kind of work. Anly an Atheist must be forced to help his fellow man "who truly needs that help".

I ain't gonna watch that Friedman bullshit unless you can point out which boring video out of all 5, he talks about how we educate the masses in a free market, government out of the way, system.

Good Progressives never take off their blinders right Phreak?


That is why you would claim the Republicans had no new ideas and even after IWS would post many examples of new ideas from Republicans, you would still claim to have never seen one. You simply blind yourself to what you don't want to see. There is another great example of how a Conservative and a Progressive are different. You Progressives limit your exposures to only what you want to see and hear while a Conservative looks openly at all sides and "chooses" the Conservative ideas because it is the most responsible and logical out of all choices.






lol, as usual Wez you have no real intention of honest debate, all you want is an arguement and you will not get it from me. Joker already pointed out one massive mistake you mentioned but the point all you Progressives miss is all I want is for people to be responsible for their own actions. You and all Progressives are rooted in the idea that people should not be held responsible for their actions and you also feel it is the role of Government to "fix" the lives of Americans, even against their will.


You talk about wanting people like me to adopt unwanted children but who made the unwanted children Wez? Do you have anything negative to say about humans who don't take their reproductive powers seriously? How about yourself Wez? You did not care, you had unprotected sex and created an unwanted baby and the only answer you could come up with it to kill the result of your irresponsibility. A child had to die so you would not have to be inconvenienced. When Progressives like yourself start taking responsibility for your own actions, America will start to get strong again.

 

[phreakwars]

You noticed he totally dodged the question of "HOW WILL THE MASSES GET EDUCATED"

I ask how that all works in his perfect world, and he starts off ranting about the evil progressive world.

Totally avoiding what I ask him... but of course we are the ones who "CAN'T SEE"

Dodge? Me? Unlike yourself I dodge nothing, I answered the question but you can't handle the answer so you are now busy trying to remake the question to save face.

Where did you answer anything, you just bitched and complained as usual.

Speaking about dodging a question, I am still waiting on you to answer my question about why the new healthcare bill had to have sweet special deals included like the one where Unions are exempt from the new taxes on their healthcare plans but everyone else has to pay those new taxes? What did those special deals have to do with helping the poor who did not have insurance?

And my answer is still the same... BIG ****ING WHOOP.

I will make the answer more simple being as you are trying to pretend to not see the answer: The people in the community will handle educating their own children just like they did long before big Government bullied their way into things and messed it all up. The schools in the past were run by private donations from the community to the school and they took care of the teacher, many cases building a home for free to live in etc..... Also, have you ever heard of something called "home school"? That is where the parents of a child teaches their own child at home. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against a public school system being run by the Government, but the problem is they spend so much time on the buracracy and things that have no9thing to do with an education that the vast majority of the money they spend is wasted. Give that money back to those who earn it and let us take care of our own needs to include educating our youth.

Just try and getting into a good college with home schooling... yeah, you make sense.

There is nothing stopping atheists like you

I am NOT an Athiest.

from building your own schools just like the Christians Phreak. The problem is, only Christians are willing to give to community without a big Government gun held to their heads. Just like welfare, even after massive taxes Christians donate 99% all of the money supporting things like soup kitchens and food banks. Christians run all the programs trying to help people in far away places like Darfur, not one Atheist is out there doing that kind of work. Anly an Atheist must be forced to help his fellow man "who truly needs that help".

And where did you come up with THAT bullshit analogy? I guess anybody in public school is an atheist, and anybody in a parochial school must be a conservative, right?

I ain't gonna watch that Friedman bullshit unless you can point out which boring video out of all 5, he talks about how we educate the masses in a free market, government out of the way, system.

Good Progressives never take off their blinders right Phreak?

No, I just don't want to watch a bunch of bullshit that has NOTHING to do with this topic. I find it quite boring as hell watching a Donahue re-run. i was WILLING TO WATCH WHICHEVER OF THE 5 CLIPS PERTAINED TO EDUCATION, you never pointed out which one that would be... could it be because NONE OF THEM DO?

That is why you would claim the Republicans had no new ideas and even after IWS would post many examples of new ideas from Republicans, you would still claim to have never seen one. You simply blind yourself to what you don't want to see. There is another great example of how a Conservative and a Progressive are different. You Progressives limit your exposures to only what you want to see and hear while a Conservative looks openly at all sides and "chooses" the Conservative ideas because it is the most responsible and logical out of all choices.

Actually, in recent studies, it's quite the opposite LOOK IT UP IF YOU DARE!! I believe IWS even posted a topic about it... ignore it if it's convenient.
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