Philosophy

[Tack]

Hmm... You bring up some good points... We can't exactly know why some people are the way they are. No one can ever truly understand the inner workings of another person. Are people born with a strict set of principles, or are those moral imparted by those that surrounded them? Or in the case of persons of good heart, do they discover the evils in society early enough to use the knowledge to strengthen their own values? What is it about the emotional construct of the human being that can drive a person down criminal path?

Personally, I can't say that I believe it's evil, because that would be too simple, and it's obvious that mankind is rarly simple. There have been accounts of scientific evidence that a criminal mind is physically different from a moral mind, being more elongated and oval in shape than circular, but there's no proof. Maybe people commit crime because 1) they feel it gives them a taste of power - power over life and death, or some sense of control over their own lives, 2) they're scared - for example, a murderer may believe that they've witnessed death at its worst, and they can take comfort that their own death will not be nearly as terrible, or 3) it's fun - there is no underlying cause.

Of all three, I hate to think of the last as a possibility, because if people on such a large scale are able to throw out their empathy and sympathy so completely as to actually enjoy watching other people suffer, then that IS evil.

But we're left without simple answers. Though we might think that we're big players on our own little stage, we're just little players when compared to the whole of the world.

 

[Friðbjörn]

Good points you two.

The meaning of life, here's what I think.

I agree with what Sartre said, if there was a meaning of life, a point, then we'd have to follow the path of that life-point, and therefore we would be unfree to do what we wanted. We wouldn't have this "freedom", that is to say if we have it at all.
And that is directly linked to "free will". Does free will exist? I don't really think so.
Humans have a tendancy to do only what is good for themselves, or do something for someone else in order to gain something themselves. And do we control what we like? Did I choose to like chocolate? No, my tongue and the cells on it make me feel good when it enters my mouth, and therefore I tend to buy it quite often. But it was not my choice to like chocolate in the first place.

 

[Heart_LP]

I do believe that everyone are born cause they have a goal, something they have to do before they die but I do agree with you Brokenangel, what about those physcos out there?
That I cant answer, I dont think anyone can.
And I believe that somehow everything is just decided from the beginning. the things that are gonna happen will happen, we cant change that.
I've believed this since I was a kid.
As Fri said, "it was not my choice to like chocolate in the first place."


oooooh this is so interesting!

 

[Friðbjörn]

Oh yeah sorry, woops, I meant that free will as to that area of life, does not exist IMO, but around certain things it does I think.

I don't believe in fate, I believe everything is strictly coincidental, for the most part at least.

 

[Heart_LP]

I do, somehow makes things easier for me to believe. *shrugs*

 

[Tack]

The thing about the meaning of life is that for every person the meaning is different. Free will is a good point. Technically, you didn't choose to like chocolate, but you can choose to avoid it. Maybe free will is directly tied to willpower in that way. Your resolve not to touch something, even if you like it, may be defiance against that which you had no say in. Therein could lie your freedom - freedom to change. One philosopher said, "It is in change that we find purpose."

I believe that a person never will follow one set path for their entire life, but drift from road to road while searching for the one that they, in their heart, know to be the right one. Finding purpose in change, right. If someone only took one path, they would never learn and thus they would never grow as a person. After all, everyone makes mistakes and therefore learns not to make them again. How would a child ever know the difference between good and bad if they did not occasionally traverse both roads?

As for fate, can't say that I do or don't believe in it. To me, things just happen the way they do.

 

[Friðbjörn]

I think you just hit the right spot there.
Free will is definately limited, but you're right, if it exists, it's bound in change, and often denying yourself of things you like, etc.

That's also true, we need to try different things. I kinda like routines though, but in order to really learn, you must experience new things.

 

[[LP]GotLinkinPark?]

Hmmmm...I've never really discussed the meaning of life in relation to philosphy. But I agree on the religion thing cause I'm pretty much unreligious myself (though I celebrate Christmas with my family). And the my friend that's a philosipher is also unreligious.

 

[majinkamahl]

Most philosophers take no interest in religion, and reject it.
Religion is not a very big part of philosophy anyway. Philosophy covers so many things.

Besides, philosophy is about discussion and debate, not arguing, as you seem to refer pretty much. Oh well, there will always be naive people who argue instead of discussing.

Faith, by its very nature must transcend logic. The philosophers world is one of rationale, of reasoning, of answers. For this sole reason, no philosopher can truely come to terms with being a devout believer.

 

[majinkamahl]

I can say such profound things that could rock your world, I simply need a question. I will take either the Socratic Method to deal with the question, or the Sun Tzu Method. What pray tell, is the question of the day?

 

[Tack]

Faith, by its very nature must transcend logic. The philosophers world is one of rationale, of reasoning, of answers. For this sole reason, no philosopher can truely come to terms with being a devout believer.

True. You could ask any strongly religious person the same questions, and you'll always get the same answer in return... "You just have to have faith.

"There are so many different religions across the world, so many different deities and higher powers, but when compared the general set of principles for each religion are similar, if not exactly the same. Each has got its own version of creation and an afterworld with its own figures to represent good and bad. Many cultures claim that some divine intelligence created the earth and all of its creatures, but the world could have only been created once, yet there are so many different stories to what happened.

Then, are all these gods separate names tagged onto one being? Are demons of different cultures the so-called source of human wickedness, or are they fictional manifestations of human wickedness? How does one culture have the justifictation to tell another that they are wrong, when they themselves haven't been proven right?

 

[Friðbjörn]

Faith, by its very nature must transcend logic. The philosophers world is one of rationale, of reasoning, of answers. For this sole reason, no philosopher can truely come to terms with being a devout believer.

I can say such profound things that could rock your world, I simply need a question. I will take either the Socratic Method to deal with the question, or the Sun Tzu Method. What pray tell, is the question of the day?

My English is clearly not good enough, I don't understand half of what you're saying, sorry.
Tack's reply helped a bit, but I'm still lost here.

 

[Tack]

My English is clearly not good enough, I don't understand half of what you're saying, sorry.
Tack's reply helped a bit, but I'm still lost here.

A philosopher's ideas directly conflict with a religious person's ideas, because one is based entirely on logic and the other is based entirely on beliefs. Most religious faiths in general have very little logic to them. For example, Christianity states that the earth is only a few thousand years old, but if that's true, then why do we have scientific evidence of creatures living here 25 million years ago? That help a bit?

 

[Friðbjörn]

Thanks, I get it now.

Well, I'm Christian as a matter of fact, but I still believe in the Big Bang theory, I mean, the earth isn't a few thousand years old, we all know that.

The fact that the Bible has some things that are lies doesn't compromise my religion, I believe in a higher power just the same.

Most religious explanations are just unscientific attempts to explain certain things, and therefore most aren't true.

 

[Tack]

...More people should be like you! Willing to look at both sides of the picture!

 

[Friðbjörn]

Thank you

Well I just see that as the most logical point I can reach, still being religious lol

 

[immortal89]

Religion.
Human beings have always felt insecure. Their minds have always looked for reasons to kill, reasons to make believe what is best for them. Our insecurity had led to the concept of creating a GOD. On the basis of discrimination, religion was created. What is good and what is bad and to be able to discriminate against such things is a major part of our society. It cannto be separated from our minds. Relgions around the world have created beleiefs like "If you do a bad thing, and you shall face the wrath of God or be sent ot Hell". Isn't that like treating humans as slaves?

We certainly do not have free will, do we? Free will is just an illusion.

We beleive God to be a supreme being who judges us by our deeds right? Isnt that like small creatures like fleas who live in our carpets thinking of us as gods adn wanting to make the best out of the resources made available by hte human gods but we still kill them dont we? we are not gods.
Where did God come from? No scientific proof has been found.
Relgions do not allow us to question beliefs, for example, when back in the days when Copernicus suggested that the earht was round and it revolved around the sun, what result did he face from the church?The church did not accept this and punished him but he did prove the church wrong and the relgion itself failed to defend itself there.
I do beleive that there are some things that can be learnt from reigions such as wisdom but devoting yourself completely to a religon is a little illogical. Hence, i believe that one should question one's beliefs regualrly.
For me,nature itself is god. Thats all

 

[twilightcrimson7]

oooh wow, theres so much to digest here! I can't do it now! lol you all bring up insteresting questions and points of view. I'll be back to discuss!

 

[Friðbjörn]

Religion.
Human beings have always felt insecure. Their minds have always looked for reasons to kill, reasons to make believe what is best for them. Our insecurity had led to the concept of creating a GOD. On the basis of discrimination, religion was created. What is good and what is bad and to be able to discriminate against such things is a major part of our society. It cannto be separated from our minds. Relgions around the world have created beleiefs like "If you do a bad thing, and you shall face the wrath of God or be sent ot Hell". Isn't that like treating humans as slaves?

We certainly do not have free will, do we? Free will is just an illusion.

We beleive God to be a supreme being who judges us by our deeds right? Isnt that like small creatures like fleas who live in our carpets thinking of us as gods adn wanting to make the best out of the resources made available by hte human gods but we still kill them dont we? we are not gods.
Where did God come from? No scientific proof has been found.
Relgions do not allow us to question beliefs, for example, when back in the days when Copernicus suggested that the earht was round and it revolved around the sun, what result did he face from the church?The church did not accept this and punished him but he did prove the church wrong and the relgion itself failed to defend itself there.
I do beleive that there are some things that can be learnt from reigions such as wisdom but devoting yourself completely to a religon is a little illogical. Hence, i believe that one should question one's beliefs regualrly.
For me,nature itself is god. Thats all

I believe in God, but not in that way.

I've seen it for myself that it can't really be that God judges us by every deed and all that, but I still believe there is something behind all this creation, which IMO is God. Truth be told, I'm not really Christian anymore, I might as well be Jewish or Muslim as well, cause all those religions are different versions of one the same.

The church has not done any good in this world, but that's more for history and social studies to cover if you ask me.

Of course has no scientific proof been found, but do you have scientific proof for love existing? Or anger, or anything in that era? No, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Of course you can and should doubt the existance of a ruler and a creator of us, but as skeptical as I am, I still believe that there is something behind this all that we don't know about.

I guess we'll just find out when we die.

 

[The_One]

Maybe people commit crime because 1) they feel it gives them a taste of power - power over life and death, or some sense of control over their own lives, 2) they're scared - for example, a murderer may believe that they've witnessed death at its worst, and they can take comfort that their own death will not be nearly as terrible, or 3) it's fun - there is no underlying cause.

But we're left without simple answers. Though we might think that we're big players on our own little stage, we're just little players when compared to the whole of the world.

how about this : ppl kill because they are weak and they want to know what death really is. They are so scared of it and only seeing with their own eyes how a human dies makes them feel better. Of course , there are also cases of insanity in discussion.

I guess we'll just find out when we die.

that`s right , but wouldn`t it be better to guess now what happens after we die , and then to realise that we were right ? :thumbsup: