Pope: Europe Losing Faith In Its Future

[H Dickmann]

"Mike" <matmzc@hofstra.edu> wrote in message
news:1174900059.601554.286980@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 26, 4:25 am, "H Dickmann" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>>
>> So if the Pope tells you to go out of the way of a speeding train you are
>> going to ignore him because you are an atheist?
>>
>> Look at the reality of Europe. It has been estimated that in 20 years
>> from
>> now, 30% of women will chose not to have any children while others will
>> only
>> have one child. Migrants on the other hand have 4 children or more. Do
>> you
>> want the Opernhaus to be turned into a mosque? Do you like it when in
>> just a
>> few generation all of Europe speaks Arabic? The Pope doesn't spell it out
>> that way, but that is what he was talking about. Don't be so damn anti
>> Catholic and listen to what he has to say.
>
> When the Pope speaks of Europe losing "faith in its future" it is
> reasonable suppose that he is using the word faith in his idiotic
> religious interpretation of the word. If you read the text of what he
> said he did not seem to be simply making a demographic observation.


There is a difference between faith in God which is religious
and faith in the future which is secular


>
> As you point out, the demographic problem is real. Since one
> can't really force people to reproduce if they do not want to, Europe
> has allowed huge amounts of immigration so as to avoid a geriatric
> society. But it was very stupid of them to accept so many Moslems.
> They could have gotten plenty of immigrants from more reasonable parts
> of the world (Latin America, Asia, etc.) As far as I can tell,
> Europeans have made an informal decision to overturn Charles Martell's
> victory at tours and simply "surrender" to the Moslem hoardes.
>

Most Muslims are not bad people, but their culture and Germanic cultures can
never reconcile.

 

[brique]

H Dickmann <herpem@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7sLNh.1858$M.1261@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvachon@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1174893383.237216.22020@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> > On 26 mar, 05:13, "Paul J Kriha" <paul.nospam.kr...@paradise.net.nz>
> > wrote:
> >> brique <briquen...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in
> >> messagenews:1174876868.16547.0@demeter.uk.clara.net...
> >> > H Dickmann <her...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:9QDNh.1707$M.995@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >> > > "brique" <briquen...@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
> >> > >news:1174864221.13850.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
> >> > > > H Dickmann <her...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> >> > > >news:wkANh.1656$M.1115@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >> > > >> "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > > >>news:1174835887.370307.181600@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> >> > > >> > On 25 Mrz., 12:53, "H Dickmann" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >> > > >> >> "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> > > >> >>news:1174812401.988679.59800@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> >> > > >> >> > On 25 Mrz., 06:20, "Sound of Trumpet"
> >> > > >> >> > <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net>
> >> > > >> >> > wrote:
> >> > > >> >> >>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1806213/posts
> >>
> >> > > >> >> >> Pope: Europe Losing Faith in Its Future
> >>
> >> > > >> >> > And we care about what a German septuagenarian wearing
> >> > > >> >> > dresses has
> >> > > >> >> > to
> >> > > >> >> > say because...?
> >>
> >> > > >> >> He is the leader of a Billion people. Who are you?
> >>
> >> > > >> > Do you really think that one billion persons on the planet do
> >> > > >> > exactly
> >> > > >> > as he says?
> >>
> >> > > >> No, But then, not every American obeys the law of the land.
> >>
> >> > > >> For example, do you think that no catholics EVER use
> >> > > >> > contraception?
> >> > > >> > Who am I? Someone who can make decisions by myself without
> >> > > >> > having
> >> > > >> > someone "pre-chewing" them for me... Who are you?
> >>
> >> > > >> I'm a person who realises that Society can not function without
> >> > > >> laws,
> >> > > >> even
> >> > > >> if we don't like all the laws. If you are a citizen of a
country,
> >> > > >> a
> >> > > >> member
> >> > > >> of a soccer club , a social club or a church, you have laws,
rules
> >> > > >> and
> >> > > >> regulations. If you want to do your own thing, you have to live
on
> >> > > >> a
> >> > > >> deserted island.
> >>
> >> > > > And since when did this 'Pope' get to tell people who are not
> >> > > > members of
> >> > > > his
> >> > > > club what to do?
> >>
> >> > > You may be anti Bush, but does that mean that he can not tell
people
> >> > > what
> >> > > is good for America? Or even, what is good for other countries?
> >>
> >> > Bush can't even tell what day of the week it is without help... but
> >> > your
> >> > touching faith in leaders and willingness to be one of the led is
> >> > noted. You
> >> > deserve each other.
> >>
> >> Sheesh, this is weird.
> >> These last two posts _seem_ to be from a person in the UK
> >> answering a person in Australia. Neither of them appear to
> >> know the difference between the pope, a head of the catholic
> >> church and the American president, a head of completely
> >> different outfit.
> >
> > I'm in Austria (no kangaroo in Vienna...).My original question was
> > simply: why would atheists care about what the pope says. That's it.
> >
> So if the Pope tells you to go out of the way of a speeding train you are
> going to ignore him because you are an atheist?
>
> Look at the reality of Europe. It has been estimated that in 20 years from
> now, 30% of women will chose not to have any children while others will
only
> have one child. Migrants on the other hand have 4 children or more. Do you
> want the Opernhaus to be turned into a mosque? Do you like it when in just
a
> few generation all of Europe speaks Arabic? The Pope doesn't spell it out
> that way, but that is what he was talking about. Don't be so damn anti
> Catholic and listen to what he has to say.
>

Well, he should lead by example and end celibacy, the sight of a bunch of
men sworn to celibacy trying to tell everyone else how to lead their sexual
lives is amusing and a little sad too. Yes, I'm in the UK, what do I know
about catholicism, a bit, having been press-ganged (without my consent) into
that organisation at birth, compulsorily educated within its school system
( 'faith' schools, run by nuns and priests and, because I was a 'catholic'
child, thats where I was sent) and more than happily expelled from same when
I finally figured out that 'beliefs' cannot be enforced and told them where
to shove theirs.

As for Bush, well, the other guy introduced him as part of his arguemnt
about the rights of leaders to tell us all what to do, apparently, he seems
to have made some connection between disobeying a pope and disliking
Bush.... he is right , of course, both require independent thought and a
degree of rationality.

As for the 'Muslim Threat'... I treat that the same as the 'Chinese threat',
the Russian threat' and every other 'threat' produced in the long line of
'threats' raised to justify blind obedience to some 'leader' and acceptance
of the need to go kill some other poor bugger whose leader is saying the
same about me....

 

[brique]

Mike <matmzc@hofstra.edu> wrote in message
news:1174900059.601554.286980@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 26, 4:25 am, "H Dickmann" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> > "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >
> > So if the Pope tells you to go out of the way of a speeding train you
are
> > going to ignore him because you are an atheist?
> >
> > Look at the reality of Europe. It has been estimated that in 20 years
from
> > now, 30% of women will chose not to have any children while others will
only
> > have one child. Migrants on the other hand have 4 children or more. Do
you
> > want the Opernhaus to be turned into a mosque? Do you like it when in
just a
> > few generation all of Europe speaks Arabic? The Pope doesn't spell it
out
> > that way, but that is what he was talking about. Don't be so damn anti
> > Catholic and listen to what he has to say.
>
> When the Pope speaks of Europe losing "faith in its future" it is
> reasonable suppose that he is using the word faith in his idiotic
> religious interpretation of the word. If you read the text of what he
> said he did not seem to be simply making a demographic observation.
>
> As you point out, the demographic problem is real. Since one
> can't really force people to reproduce if they do not want to, Europe
> has allowed huge amounts of immigration so as to avoid a geriatric
> society. But it was very stupid of them to accept so many Moslems.
> They could have gotten plenty of immigrants from more reasonable parts
> of the world (Latin America, Asia, etc.) As far as I can tell,
> Europeans have made an informal decision to overturn Charles Martell's
> victory at tours and simply "surrender" to the Moslem hoardes.
>

Make up your minds, is Europe going godless athiest or fundamentalist
islamic....

 

[brique]

H Dickmann <herpem@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:UVMNh.1907$M.1852@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Mike" <matmzc@hofstra.edu> wrote in message
> news:1174900059.601554.286980@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 26, 4:25 am, "H Dickmann" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >> "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> >>
> >> So if the Pope tells you to go out of the way of a speeding train you
are
> >> going to ignore him because you are an atheist?
> >>
> >> Look at the reality of Europe. It has been estimated that in 20 years
> >> from
> >> now, 30% of women will chose not to have any children while others will
> >> only
> >> have one child. Migrants on the other hand have 4 children or more. Do
> >> you
> >> want the Opernhaus to be turned into a mosque? Do you like it when in
> >> just a
> >> few generation all of Europe speaks Arabic? The Pope doesn't spell it
out
> >> that way, but that is what he was talking about. Don't be so damn anti
> >> Catholic and listen to what he has to say.
> >
> > When the Pope speaks of Europe losing "faith in its future" it is
> > reasonable suppose that he is using the word faith in his idiotic
> > religious interpretation of the word. If you read the text of what he
> > said he did not seem to be simply making a demographic observation.
>
>
> There is a difference between faith in God which is religious
> and faith in the future which is secular
>
>
> >
> > As you point out, the demographic problem is real. Since one
> > can't really force people to reproduce if they do not want to, Europe
> > has allowed huge amounts of immigration so as to avoid a geriatric
> > society. But it was very stupid of them to accept so many Moslems.
> > They could have gotten plenty of immigrants from more reasonable parts
> > of the world (Latin America, Asia, etc.) As far as I can tell,
> > Europeans have made an informal decision to overturn Charles Martell's
> > victory at tours and simply "surrender" to the Moslem hoardes.
> >
>
> Most Muslims are not bad people, but their culture and Germanic cultures
can
> never reconcile.
>

Most muslims, like most catholics and most protestants and most of every
other shade of religiousity just tend to get on with their lives, their
religion is something they were born with, imposed at childbirth, and they
have been so labelled ever since. Most would struggle to be described as
'social church/temple' goers, most have precious little idea of whatever
great thoelogy debate is so exercising their popes/priests/imans/gurus
minds, few coudl even manage to concisely recount the main points of their
'religion' and the differences between them and the other main religons,
never mind the competing sects within theirs.

the 'Muslim' threat is not that religuos, it is political and economic, a
conflict between two regions over increasingly scarce resources and one lot
happen to be 'christian' and the other lot 'muslim' and each desperate to
find some ragged cloth to cover their naked ambitions. So, guess what....
lets make it 'religion' and stoke up the hatred and stand back and watch the
bodycount mount....

 

[*Anarcissie*]

On Mar 26, 2:24 am, Scotius <wolvz...@mnsi.net> wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2007 21:20:13 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
>
> <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net> wrote:
> >http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1806213/posts
>
> >Pope: Europe Losing Faith in Its Future
>
> Odd. I just read a piece here on Usenet where it's said
> Europeans see a big future ahead, and while they see themselves as
> much more powerful internationally, they see the US as much less so. I
> guess sometimes the papacy decides to engage in pro-European PR.

A lot of that has to do with the disastrous regime of Bush,
which has pretty much put an end to American world
hegemony, although the fact that Europe, Russia and
the states of east Asia are not ruled by God-botherers can
only help them.

As for the Muslims, if there get to be too many of them
in Europe, the Europeans can exchange them for
Mexicans with the U.S. The Mexicans are Catholics
and speak a European language and will get along fine.
The Muslims, at least the religious ones, will fit right
in in the cultural desert of America and can preach
hell and damnation to their native fundamentalist
counterparts out in the suburbs and be preached
upon in turn. Maybe they'll even kill one another,

 

[H Dickmann]

"brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m> wrote in message
news:1174914373.29339.0@proxy01.news.clara.net...
>
> Mike <matmzc@hofstra.edu> wrote in message
> news:1174900059.601554.286980@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 26, 4:25 am, "H Dickmann" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> > "Parsifal" <jeanpascalvac...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >
>> > So if the Pope tells you to go out of the way of a speeding train you
> are
>> > going to ignore him because you are an atheist?
>> >
>> > Look at the reality of Europe. It has been estimated that in 20 years
> from
>> > now, 30% of women will chose not to have any children while others will
> only
>> > have one child. Migrants on the other hand have 4 children or more. Do
> you
>> > want the Opernhaus to be turned into a mosque? Do you like it when in
> just a
>> > few generation all of Europe speaks Arabic? The Pope doesn't spell it
> out
>> > that way, but that is what he was talking about. Don't be so damn anti
>> > Catholic and listen to what he has to say.
>>
>> When the Pope speaks of Europe losing "faith in its future" it is
>> reasonable suppose that he is using the word faith in his idiotic
>> religious interpretation of the word. If you read the text of what he
>> said he did not seem to be simply making a demographic observation.
>>
>> As you point out, the demographic problem is real. Since one
>> can't really force people to reproduce if they do not want to, Europe
>> has allowed huge amounts of immigration so as to avoid a geriatric
>> society. But it was very stupid of them to accept so many Moslems.
>> They could have gotten plenty of immigrants from more reasonable parts
>> of the world (Latin America, Asia, etc.) As far as I can tell,
>> Europeans have made an informal decision to overturn Charles Martell's
>> victory at tours and simply "surrender" to the Moslem hoardes.
>>
>
> Make up your minds, is Europe going godless athiest or fundamentalist
> islamic....
>
None of the above. Europe is in the process of replacing all of that with
selfishness, greed, materialism and consumerism. They follow America and in
the end they will justify themselves and turn to right fundamentalist false
religion and preach that greed and selfishness are true Christian
principles.

 

[Al Klein]

On 24 Mar 2007 21:20:13 -0700, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote:

>Pope: Europe Losing Faith in Its Future

It's about time. When is the rest of the world going to lose its
infantile need for a father figure in the sky?

 

[Al Klein]

On 26 Mar 2007 06:50:42 -0700, " Anarcissie " <anarcissie@gmail.com>
wrote:

>As for the Muslims, if there get to be too many of them
>in Europe, the Europeans can exchange them for
>Mexicans with the U.S. The Mexicans are Catholics
>and speak a European language and will get along fine.
>The Muslims, at least the religious ones, will fit right
>in in the cultural desert of America and can preach
>hell and damnation to their native fundamentalist
>counterparts out in the suburbs and be preached
>upon in turn. Maybe they'll even kill one another,

Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim population
(and a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the
Moslems pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you
couldn't tell most of them from immigrants from any other part of the
world, unless you stood outside a halal butcher and took notes. Some
of them wear traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a
young girl working as a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and
skirt), but the speech of a native-born teenager doesn't seem to
change based on religion.

 

[James A. Donald]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:55:15 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
> Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim population
> (and a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the
> Moslems pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you
> couldn't tell most of them from immigrants from any other part of the
> world, unless you stood outside a halal butcher and took notes. Some
> of them wear traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a
> young girl working as a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and
> skirt), but the speech of a native-born teenager doesn't seem to
> change based on religion.

Chances are, however, that your prospects of being raped, or of
getting away with rape, vary radically with your religion.


--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

 

[Mantar, Feyelno nek dusa]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:55:15 -0400, Al Klein wrote:

> Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim population (and
> a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the Moslems
> pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you couldn't tell
> most of them from immigrants from any other part of the world, unless you
> stood outside a halal butcher and took notes. Some of them wear
> traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a young girl working as
> a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and skirt), but the speech of a
> native-born teenager doesn't seem to change based on religion.

.. The hell, you say! What are you trying to do, throw the monkey-wrench
of reasonable discourse into some good old Muslim-hatin' gears?

Why, I hear them Muslamoid Arabiacs don't bleed like you 'n me. They got
green blood, and they eat Europeans at night and steal their bodies!
It's true! The President of Amway said so, according to the
WorldNetDaily, as reported by Free Republic.

 

[brique]

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:v2ri03pskvst6moqc6epqm7gli6gc7f0j4@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:55:15 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
> wrote:
> > Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim population
> > (and a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the
> > Moslems pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you
> > couldn't tell most of them from immigrants from any other part of the
> > world, unless you stood outside a halal butcher and took notes. Some
> > of them wear traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a
> > young girl working as a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and
> > skirt), but the speech of a native-born teenager doesn't seem to
> > change based on religion.
>
> Chances are, however, that your prospects of being raped, or of
> getting away with rape, vary radically with your religion.

Do you have some statistics to back up that comment or did you find them on
a nazi web page, you know, the kind you consider tell it as it is in plain
and simple terms?

 

[James A. Donald]

Al Klein:
> > > Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim population
> > > (and a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the
> > > Moslems pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you
> > > couldn't tell most of them from immigrants from any other part of the
> > > world, unless you stood outside a halal butcher and took notes. Some
> > > of them wear traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a
> > > young girl working as a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and
> > > skirt), but the speech of a native-born teenager doesn't seem to
> > > change based on religion.

James A. Donald:
> > Chances are, however, that your prospects of being raped, or of
> > getting away with rape, vary radically with your religion.

"brique"
> Do you have some statistics to back up that comment

Well I did not know any statistics, but I was familiar with various
examples of prominent and senior Islamic preachers urging the "youths"
to go at it.

But since you asked, I then googled Muslim Rape, and got a sackload of
statistics. http://www.google.com/search?q=Muslim+rape

Check them out.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

 

[brique]

James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
news:cdkj03918oap8cp4hu15kr8bahogm6oevf@4ax.com...
> Al Klein:
> > > > Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim
population
> > > > (and a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the
> > > > Moslems pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you
> > > > couldn't tell most of them from immigrants from any other part of
the
> > > > world, unless you stood outside a halal butcher and took notes.
Some
> > > > of them wear traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a
> > > > young girl working as a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and
> > > > skirt), but the speech of a native-born teenager doesn't seem to
> > > > change based on religion.
>
> James A. Donald:
> > > Chances are, however, that your prospects of being raped, or of
> > > getting away with rape, vary radically with your religion.
>
> "brique"
> > Do you have some statistics to back up that comment
>
> Well I did not know any statistics,

There's a surprise.......

 

[Al Klein]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 05:14:31 +1000, James A. Donald
<jamesd@echeque.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:55:15 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
>wrote:
>> Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim population
>> (and a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the
>> Moslems pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you
>> couldn't tell most of them from immigrants from any other part of the
>> world, unless you stood outside a halal butcher and took notes. Some
>> of them wear traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a
>> young girl working as a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and
>> skirt), but the speech of a native-born teenager doesn't seem to
>> change based on religion.
>
>Chances are, however, that your prospects of being raped, or of
>getting away with rape, vary radically with your religion.

Around here? I think the women who are at greatest risk around here
are WASCs, and their greatest risk is from WASCs. Or maybe black AS
Christians, in some towns.

 

[Al Klein]

On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:16:11 GMT, "Mantar, Feyelno nek dusa"
<mantar.feyelno@YourPantiesSirWilliamfrontiernet.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:55:15 -0400, Al Klein wrote:
>
>> Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim population (and
>> a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the Moslems
>> pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you couldn't tell
>> most of them from immigrants from any other part of the world, unless you
>> stood outside a halal butcher and took notes. Some of them wear
>> traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a young girl working as
>> a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and skirt), but the speech of a
>> native-born teenager doesn't seem to change based on religion.
>
> .. The hell, you say! What are you trying to do, throw the monkey-wrench
>of reasonable discourse into some good old Muslim-hatin' gears?
>
> Why, I hear them Muslamoid Arabiacs don't bleed like you 'n me. They got
>green blood, and they eat Europeans at night and steal their bodies!
> It's true! The President of Amway said so, according to the
>WorldNetDaily, as reported by Free Republic.

You should really give credit to Faux News when you steal some of
their worst stuff.

 

[Al Klein]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 09:14:48 +0100, "brique" <briquenoir@freeuk.c0m>
wrote:

>
>James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com> wrote in message
>news:cdkj03918oap8cp4hu15kr8bahogm6oevf@4ax.com...
>> Al Klein:
>> > > > Actually, where I live we have a pretty decent-size Muslim
>population
>> > > > (and a decent-size Mexican population) but, aside from the way the
>> > > > Moslems pray, when they eat (and don't) and what they celebrate, you
>> > > > couldn't tell most of them from immigrants from any other part of
>the
>> > > > world, unless you stood outside a halal butcher and took notes.
>Some
>> > > > of them wear traditional dress (it's still a bit strange to see a
>> > > > young girl working as a supermarket checker wearing a head scarf and
>> > > > skirt), but the speech of a native-born teenager doesn't seem to
>> > > > change based on religion.
>>
>> James A. Donald:
>> > > Chances are, however, that your prospects of being raped, or of
>> > > getting away with rape, vary radically with your religion.
>>
>> "brique"
>> > Do you have some statistics to back up that comment
>>
>> Well I did not know any statistics,
>
>There's a surprise.......

Gee, dishonesty. That's a surprise too.