Public vent time

[timesjoke]

Merc I feel bad for the situation that makes you feel bad but I imagine your still somewhat old school in your approach to trying to make things work and my point is how the "new" attitudes are not to work hard on anything.

As Snaf said, divorce is more prevalent now but even more than that, marriage is not an option for women at all. The fastest growing segment of society is the single, never wed mother, usually with two children.

If nothing has changed, why is it more and more women don't want fathers to go with their children? Are you saying women never wanted the men, just their money and now with child support they don't need the men?

Children without fathers in the home:

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes

90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes

85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes

80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes

71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes

75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes

70% of youths in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes

85% of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes

There is a mountain of hard scientific study that proves divorce or otherwise little involvement of the father is very bad for chilkdren, especially girls:

"Among teenage and adult populations of females, parental divorce has been associated with lower self-esteem, precocious sexual activity, greater delinquent-like behavior, and more difficulty establishing gratifying, lasting adult heterosexual relationships. It is especially intriguing to note that, in these studies, the parental divorce typically occurred years before any difficulties were observed."

 


"Finally, girls whose parents divorce may grow up without the day to day experience of interacting with a man who is attentive, caring and loving. The continuous sense of being valued and loved as a female seems an especially key element in the development of the conviction that one is indeed femininely lovable. Without this regular source of nourishment, a girl's sense of being valued as a female does not seem to thrive."

 

[mercury]

Funny how I fit into your "hard scientific study", yet my parents "stayed together for the kids" and "tried to work it out".

My father was everything but "attentive, caring and loving", but he was there every night... OH wait... he was attentive! We had his full attention as he was hurling **** at us...

He also called my mother a c nt every chance he got. I was just a *****. That's where I learned what kind of "feminine value" I had.

It was toxic environment that created more issues than it solved.

 

[timesjoke]

Humans are too complicated to have a set 1 + 1 = 2 formula but you can look to certain trends to help figure out what is more likely to happen than not.

You say as a child you had a rough family life filled with abuse, so did your spouse, and now your contemplating a divorce yourself if I get your comment earlier correctly. I am sorry your situation is so bad but at least you are working very hard........most 'modern' couples do not try that hard Merc. I do not want any woman or man to stay in a relationship that is abusive, that is not what I am saying, and it does not even have to be marriage, I am not married to Tami, but I have a deep and solid committment to her, and it is that part many 'modern' couples do not have these days.

But again, it is the children who will pay the biggest price for divorce most of the time.

"There is some evidence that in our well-meaning efforts to save children in the immediate post-separation period from anxiety, confusion, and the normative divorce-engendered conflict, we have set the stage in the longer run for the more ominous symptoms of anger, depression, and a deep sense of loss by depriving the child of the opportunity to maintain a full relationship with each parent." ~ Joan Kelly, Ph.D

 

 

 


"Children reared by a divorced or never-married mother are less cooperative and score lower on tests of intelligence than children reared in intact families. Statistical analysis of the behavior and intelligence of these children revealed "significant detrimental effects" of living in a female-headed household. Growing up in a female-headed household remained a statistical predictor of behavior problems even after adjusting for differences in family income. ~ book:Economic Deprivation and Early Childhood Development

 

[mercury]

It's also the children that pay the price of dealing with a marriage that maybe never should have happened inthe first place.

Your first statement here was that people these days are too quick to walk away... quite often they don't run away fast enough.

Things are never as black and white as you seem to like them to be... there are lots of shades of grey between the two.

Bottom line: You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[atlantic]

Also, Atlantic: just because what YOU see is "a nice guy" doesn't mean he's a nice guy at home.
My father was a wonderful friend, but he sucked @ss as a husband and father.

His friends had nothing but praise for him. I lived with holes being punched through walls, lamps being thrown at my head, my bedroom door being kicked in.

Just keep in mind that what most people show to the outside world is their best face. They only pull out the ugly when the doors are shut and the curtains are drawn. Most @ssholes are too insecure to show their true colors to people who don't "have" to tolerate it.

No doubt. I'm well aware of that. I live with one of those. I truly know the type. The couple of women I were referring to both cheat on their husbands. One physically kicked her husband out of a moving pick-up truck one night because he asked for a pizza (she brags about it); the other will go into a rage if her husband doesn't do exactly what she says when she says it. Just a private joke between me and Wez that's all

 

[timesjoke]

It's also the children that pay the price of dealing with a marriage that maybe never should have happened inthe first place.
Your first statement here was that people these days are too quick to walk away... quite often they don't run away fast enough.

Things are never as black and white as you seem to like them to be... there are lots of shades of grey between the two.

Bottom line: You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

And is that not still the fault of the adults?

Both the adults decided to get together and either through not caring or being irresponsible made children with the other person when they should have never got together in the first place, hense the fastest growing segment of society being the never wed mother.

When women used to slow the process down and require men to jump through some hoops before 'putting out' there were less unwanted pregnancies and less divorce. Yes, I am saying it, men are dogs and have always wanted ***, that has not changed with men, but women not making the men work for it has changed.

"Booty call"

My point will always be that while we can make all sorts of excuses for why adults marry/divorce/or never marry, that is not really a big issue in life, but these same adults making babies without taking full responsibility for the welfare of their children "IS" a big issue with society.

Aduls hurt more than themselves with their own immature and irresponsible behaviors......and that is "black and white".

 

[atlantic]

Why do people get married anyway? Why do you have vows that promise to live together better or worse? People have always had divorces but marriage used to mean something. I'm going through a rocky time right now and it's killing me. I don't want to breath anymore!

Hang in there CB; I know what you're going through. My divorce **** neared killed me. You will be ok, it'll all work out ok. Keep yourself busy Charlie til it passes

 

[Ahhlee]

It sucks, but...

you do what you gotta do.

 

[wez]

Funny thing bout all this.. I recall J saying .. many times in fact.. that the only reason he got married was because she got pregnant.. what a brilliant idea.. Live and learn..

 

[timesjoke]

Funny thing bout all this.. I recall J saying .. many times in fact.. that the only reason he got married was because she got pregnant.. what a brilliant idea.. Live and learn..

Well they had *** most likely because of mutual attraction, assuming the child was not the result of a one night stand....there had to be something about her that was keeping him comming back before he got her pregnant.

Her getting pregnant was the result of him trusting her enough not to use his own protection.

Obviously there was more to it than 'she got pregnant'.

How long were they together before getting married/getting pregnant?

 

[wez]

Well they had *** most likely because of mutual attraction, assuming the child was not the result of a one night stand....there had to be something about her that was keeping him comming back before he got her pregnant.
Her getting pregnant was the result of him trusting her enough not to use his own protection.

Obviously there was more to it than 'she got pregnant'.

How long were they together before getting married/getting pregnant?

Not sure exactly.. few months tops I think.. J wasn't ever much of a long term relationship kinda guy.. but.. he's been saying that since.. and knowing him, I fully believe it.

Well they had *** most likely because of mutual attraction

yah.. prolly.. but then again.. for J all that was required for mutual attraction was a willing ******.. so.. there ya are.

 

[timesjoke]

But he still trusted her enough to have unprotected *** with her, so either he is completely stupid or there was more to it than he is admitting to. Men rarely share their true emotional feelings with other men, it is easier to claim he only married her because she was pregnant then to say he was in love with her.

 

[wez]

But he still trusted her enough to have unprotected *** with her, so either he is completely stupid or there was more to it than he is admitting to. Men rarely share their true emotional feelings with other men, it is easier to claim he only married her because she was pregnant then to say he was in love with her.

Well.. I've known J since I was 14 and I think trust and worrying about getting her pregnant was the farthest thing from his mind.. so yeah.. stoopid to be sure..but it's one thing to claim "Cuz I got her got pregnant", if all your friends and family are saying.. "what the f ck did you marry that pile - o - **** for?"

Do you think it normal for guys to go around just offering this as casual conversation for the last dozen years if it's not true? He's the only person I've ever heard say anything like that in my life. I don't think he's truly been in love with a girl ever.. just loved f cking them. Didn't matter who it was.

So, seems to me, he took your tried and true genie bottle theory to heart and took responsibility for his "mistakes" by marrying her. Brilliant..

 

[timesjoke]

There is more to taking responsibility than being in the room.

Being a real parent is a lot of very hard work. Every day.

If your buddy was so irresponsible as you claim, it is doubtful he was doing more than going through the motions of an appearance of committment and nothing else. He may as well not have even tried. In fact he most likely made it worse than if he had just run away from the start.

 

[wez]

In fact he most likely made it worse than if he had just run away from the start.

Exactly..I'm sure he did.. Her too..

Fact is, I've never even met his wife.. and his daughter just once. He's always kinda lived this double life. There would be times when I wouldn't see or hear from him for long periods. Years even. You know how it goes when ya get older. But, he's made several comments in the last couple years about his daughter having pretty severe emotional problems. I think he did the best he knew how.. live and learn.. not for me to judge his life.

So what do you say when guys run away, or more importantly, a women realizes she'd be better off without him, even if it is the better option for the kids?

 

[wez]

Now that I think back to the one time I met his daughter.. was prolly 4 or 5 years ago.. she was like 8 or 9.. just a little sweetheart. She was super affectionate and wanting me to give her bunches of attention right after I met her, sitting on my lap.. wanting me to pick her up.. show me her room.. show me her cats.. Quite the cutie..

I remember J saying something to the effect of .. "knock it off ______, leave wez alone".. and yeah.. he still calls me wez to this day.. .. I said.. "Don't worry about it.. she's fine". Felt bad for her.. she prolly got that a lot over the years from him. But, doesn't make him a bad guy.. people can only pretend to be happy for so long. Kids know better. I think he did the best he could.. I think most people do. Life is messy..

 

[timesjoke]

The story about the little girl says a lot, I would need to see some of it myself but I would say she was starved for attention. This means she does not get that attention from daddy.

As I said, there is more to taking responsibility than standing in the room.

All I can say is maybe it makes more sense to get to know each other "BEFORE" you make children with them. I feel no sympathy for so called adults who make children then cry about how they are not happy with their mate anymore unless there is some form of abuse or huge issue that showed them as completely different than they got together. While that does happen, the vast majority of divorses involve people who just never took the time to get to know each other before making babies.

 

[atlantic]

**** that sucks Wez. I have an acquiantance who recently told me "Thank *** I got pregnant with my son " because she and her husband were on the verge of breaking up until she became pregnant. Now all they do is fight all the time; they have nothing in common, and she just wants to boss him around and do whatever she wants while he busts his *** all day and isn't allowed any money. She gets pedicures, shops all the time, doesn't cook, doesn't clean but manages to go to the gym all the time. I see this way too often. Having a son, I will be sure to teach him to protect himself. A marriage isn't suppose to be a lifetime of servitude but too often that's what it becomes.

 

[timesjoke]

A marriage isn't suppose to be a lifetime of servitude but too often that's what it becomes.

Tru dat

Even divorced my ex gives me **** all the time and is always complaining about wanting more money from me.

 

[Old Salt]

**** that sucks Wez. I have an acquiantance who recently told me "Thank *** I got pregnant with my son " because she and her husband were on the verge of breaking up until she became pregnant. Now all they do is fight all the time; they have nothing in common, and she just wants to boss him around and do whatever she wants while he busts his *** all day and isn't allowed any money. She gets pedicures, shops all the time, doesn't cook, doesn't clean but manages to goe to the gym all the time. I see this way too often. Having a son, I will be sure to teach him to protect himself. A marriage isn't suppose to be a lifetime of servitude but too often that's what it becomes.

Dam, that sounds like my second ex-wife (except the pregnant part). But she couldn't be bothered going shopping - HSN all the way. Buy it, look at it, and return it - her favorite hobbies.