Pullout complete - Now what?

[Mr X]

Ok heres my take on the situation

I think it will actually quiet down as mahmoud abbass has gotten this pull out...I think he will genuinely crack down on Islamic jihad/hamas/al aqsa m/brigade.I don't think he wants to give the israeli's any reason to come back..I've noticed that also these groups have become strangely quiet...(I take this as tacit approval from them)...probably some of them a heading to iraq to kill marines..as this has become a great leaverage tool on the west and Israel.

Umm just an update...when you hear any suicide bombers in Israel doing their thang now...it's just an exercise in keeping Israel in the headlines...the whole Iraq thing is hijacking the headlines.

These Islamic groups have no show against Israels military in reality, so it's all for political consumption.

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

OK. That all makes sense, I guess. Although I seem to recall the Soviet Union claiming the Wall was to protect East Germany from western subversion. I guess its a matter of perspective.

NOBODY was trying to get into East Berlin regardless of what the Soviets claimed. There is a very distinct difference and you know it. Nice try.

Oh, and are we saying that because the land was "full of Jews" the nation of Israel was created through fair and just means?

I think so. About as fair and just as any other nation...Don

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

But then again, there have been some other recent Presidential Foreign Policy triumphs too, right?

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[Rotwang]

Cogito...once again you dont debate, you defend.

Please go here http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

It is a non-prejudiced historical synopsis of how Israel came into being. It makes a few points, including the clear fact that Israel is no more valid than Palestine as a nation. The formation of Israel was as a result of a Zionist movement that developed disproportionate influence over the British Government (gee, THAT sounds familiar) and exploited various circumstances arising from WW2 and its aftermath to coerce the British with both political pressure AND terrorism into vacating the area known as Palestine.

The Jews then moved into the vacuum and formed a nation. The first country to recognise the nation of Israel was the US (I wonder why? Jewish influence perhaps?). As the most dominant nation at that time, this effectively placed Israel under US protection, and gave it a semblance of legitimacy.

Up until that time, there had NEVER been a nation called Israel, nor had the Jews EVER lived under national sovereignty.

The inarguable reality is that the Jews were more capable of exercising influence, and more resourceful than the Palestinians, thus allowing them to take control of that particular area of land.

Now, I do not take the position that Israel has no right to exist. Likewise, a nation called Palestine has every right to exist for precisely the same rationale. However, if the US had NOT supported the creation of Israel, it probably would not exist.

Hence Arab contempt for America, right or wrong.

Once again, you look a fool with your clear bias and lack of knowledge.

As to "historical" validations to occupying captured lands, why then has the US been so stoic and robust in denying that doctrine in Kuwait, Germany, the former Soviet Bloc, South Africa, Cambodia and East Timor.

To call Australia a nation under occupation is to brand your own country with the same banner. In fact moreso, as the Australian Aborigines were not as developed socially as the American Native Indians.

All you need is a big red nose to comlete your appearance as a clown.

 

[phreakwars]

Rotwang, one thing I don't understand, and this is mainly because I am not really into Mid-East politics and there dealings with the world, is WHY you say the Jews influenced the U.S.


I have seen an interesting debate so far, but a little more insight would be helpful.. do you have a link perhaps to reference ??
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[Rotwang]

I'm sorry. I dont recall saying that.

I made an assertion, which is what one does when one suspects something but either has no evidence, or cannot be ****ed looking for it because he has other things to do.

If you are interested, I recommend www.google.com.

 

[phreakwars]

The Jews then moved into the vacuum and formed a nation. The first country to recognise the nation of Israel was the US (I wonder why? Jewish influence perhaps?). As the most dominant nation at that time, this effectively placed Israel under US protection, and gave it a semblance of legitimacy.

This statement is the one that confuses me. Or did I misinterpret what you were saying ?
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[Rotwang]

This statement is the one that confuses me. Or did I misinterpret what you were saying ?
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According to the history books, when Israel applied to join the UN (effectively legitimising their claim for nation status) the US was the first country to vote for them. Only then did other nations (western countries) follow suit.

It strikes me as odd that the US would take such an interest, and so avidly support, a miniscule and irrelevant embryonic nation in a region that the US traditionally took no interest in.

It strikes me as odd that the US would so vigorously sponsor and essentially prop up this fledgling nation, while at the very same time the Soviets were annexing the Baltic States, Taiwan was trying to become independent from China, and there was no accommodation for the equally valid claims for a Palestinian State.

But, as you're a lazy *******, here is the chronolgy of events from US President Truman leading up to the recognition of the State of Israel.