Science and Religion

[phreakwars]

The idiot CJ was banned for having no substance,or opinion of his own that actually made sense, and Jaffer leaves to prepare for battle with the Infidel MRIH, Jaffer is weary and cold, and has blown "CHUNKS" at least 24 times now... Stay tuned

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[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

You know, my favorite thing in life is that Christianity is losing followers and Islam is gaining followers. I'm going to sleep for now, maybe tommorow (12 AM )

Your "convert or die" tactics do work! No one doubts that!

 

[Master_Jaffer]

Your "convert or die" tactics do work! No one doubts that!

Gotta find some way to rid us of infedels .

Besides... being a Christian, as I've heard from a Christian friend of mine, to go to heaven, you aren't exactly required to be a good person, just a good Christian (which in most ways... is being a good person...) So, if, as you say, "Convert or Die" (which really makes no sense, 10% of the Egyptian population is Coptic Christian...), and supposing your religion is true, wouldn't they have a better existance if they went to heaven, instead of converting to my, as you claim, false religion and then going to hell?

It shows the quality of Christians in the world today.
About the same quality as 15% - 25% of the Muslims in the world today.
(Debate comes later... sleepy)

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Gotta find some way to rid us of infedels .

So I've heard...

Besides... being a Christian, as I've heard from a Christian friend of mine, to go to heaven, you aren't exactly required to be a good person, just a good Christian (which in most ways... is being a good person...)

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(Romans 10:9-10)

So, if, as you say, "Convert or Die" (which really makes no sense, 10% of the Egyptian population is Coptic Christian...), and supposing your religion is true, wouldn't they have a better existance if they went to heaven, instead of converting to my, as you claim, false religion and then going to hell?

Yes, they would.

It shows the quality of Christians in the world today.
About the same quality as 15% - 25% of the Muslims in the world today.
(Debate comes later... sleepy)

True enough... If a Christian converts to Islam it definitely shows weak moral character! That's two things we mutually agree upon, MJ... shocking!

 

[Master_Jaffer]

Any convert to any religion shows either weak moral character, or intellegence .

And, MRIH, you've helped me prove yet ANOTHER surah from the Qu'ran ^_^.
I don't want to copy the verses, but I'll paraphrase what I'm aiming at:
Surah Al-Hajri
"And even if you show a kafir(nonbeliever,) this divine write, with all of its science, all of its morals, they will not believe. Kafirs are so bent on denying the truth, that if we (Allah, as earlier clarified,) open a straight path to heaven, that will not suffice; the kafir will call it a trick."
You're just aiding my book .

 

[fullauto]

MJ... I think it's good that a muslim can come in a mainly Xtian website and defend his muslim faith with as much conviction as you.... you abviously have a strong faith and I wish you the best defending yourself....
---- BUT ----
People have been debating who's religion is correct for thousands of years without a winner and yet we still have millions of 'converts' or people who are lead into it by there parents every year...
I don't think that you can succesfully defend islam here! People here, to include myself, for the most part hate Islam even before we really get to take a look at it... And that is the fault of EVERY Muslim, not just the few ****-sticks who make videos of beheadings.... The western world is STILL repenting and attoning over what Hitler did... but yet we have the muslims dancing in the street when our towers came down like there was a 2 for 1 sale at allahmart on sexually mature 9 year olds!
It's not so much the religion that makes us hate muslims, as it is the muslims themselves....
I do think it's good that a muslim can come in here to debate this stuff openly...but do you think any of these guys would get as much respect on a mainly Islamic forum.... probably not.... and that's not because of the Quer'an, it because muslims are some of the most intolerant people in the world! Just know that you should be greatful and apreciative that Western Xtians are generally as tolerant and open as they are.... God knows the muslims haven't been...

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Any convert to any religion shows either weak moral character, or intellegence .

or stupidity

And, MRIH, you've helped me prove yet ANOTHER surah from the Qu'ran ^_^.

That damn koran needs more proving than either you or I ever could prove.

I don't want to copy the verses,

Thank you,

but I'll paraphrase what I'm aiming at:

Blast!

Surah Al-Hajri
"And even if you show a kafir(nonbeliever,) this divine write, with all of its science, all of its morals, they will not believe. Kafirs are so bent on denying the truth, that if we (Allah, as earlier clarified,) open a straight path to heaven, that will not suffice; the kafir will call it a trick."
You're just aiding my book .

Proof? What is this? Anyone could say this about anything, and claim it came from God... no proof at all, just empty words!

 

[phreakwars]

Post by C.J.. coming up, just put him on ignore, he won't even TRY to make sense anyway..

HA HA HA HA , WE WIN !!!

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[phreakwars]

Uh, I'd call you a pedophile.

Unless you were living over a thousand years ago where this practice was normal.
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[OmegaManiac]

What would you call someone like .......
Is this a trick question?

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Uh, I'd call you a pedophile.

Unless you were living over a thousand years ago where this practice was normal.
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PW, I gave you more credit for brains than that! Sacrificing virgins was considered "normal" at sundry times and places throughout history... It doesn't make it right! Lynching african americans was considered "normal" a hundred years ago in the south... It doesn't make it right!

GET A GRIP... PEDOPHILIA IS PEDOPHILIA!!!!!!!!!

 

[OmegaManiac]

Use one teaspoonful per cup (more or less) for desired strength, add boiling water.

 

[OmegaManiac]

You want to boil phreakwars or muhammed? Perhaps both?

I'll never tell........

 

[OmegaManiac]

Lynching african americans was considered "normal" a hundred years ago in the south... It doesn't make it right!

Actually it was more recently than that.

 

[Crazywumbat]

Ummm.....the average follower of the Christian faith since it was founded till the 1600's? See...you're referring to the actions of one person from 1500 years ago but what you aren't mentioning is just about everything listed above was done by more than a few Christians.

 

[Gentilhomme]

Ok guys,

I've been reading this and i feel the need to bring some reason to this table. There has been SOME good points brought up, but none by CJ, (man, smarten up) and the incredable amount of bad-mouthing just makes you look like an idiot.
Anyhow, here is my little rant.

Personally, find religion far to easy to shut down at every point. Alot of it can be traced through sociological and psycological developpement, not to mention its anthrapological impacts that, due mostly to its former amount of control and the comforts of the easliy take-advatagable/brought up intos, plus a few ignorent idiots (like CJ), these are why it remains after the age of enlightment. Now that make me come off as a science toting bullshitter, i know, but if you starty looking into even basic psycology you can figure out the origins of most (not all) religions.

There are those like Christianity, Judism and Islam that say alot of thing concerning all powerful enities that were probably ment to be figurative when they were first created, then beliefs unrelentless hold on people left them to misconstrue the initial IDEAS borrows form Kevin Smith and turn them into their own wild beliefs. Now some of that **** was good but as we've seen again, and again, and again thorughout history, there will always be those that will interpret it in such a way that leads to suffering. (Burnung redheads, hanging black people, slaughtering Jews, crashing planes into towers etc...)

SO, why not stop all this self-rightious tomfoolery and just start thinking for yourselves. I'm sure that you've gotton alot of the good stuff from your respective teachings and that they've givien you a decent moral structure that'll let you live in reletive peace with those around you, BUT if you start telling people that your right, they're wrong and your beliefs should rule them (As is the case in even our "Equal" western cultures) this is where i got to say '**** off' personally i couldn't care less what you believe in, so long as it dosn't infringe on the naturel rights and freedoms that are accepted now adays.

Oh and one last thing, ENOUGH WITH THE PEDOPHILIA BS! You can say what is wrong is wrong, but the simple fact is, what is consider WRONG is completely reletive to the time, if you can't realize that then i pray to god (i dunno if thats a joke or not) that you are never given any sort of power over others. If you grew up eating steak form a cup, it wouldn't seem weird to you now would it? This is the same reason that many christien parents....have christien children, its wht they grow up wiht... Taoists also often have Taoist kids.....funny how that works isn't it?

 

[flaxmagnifique]

Okay.

New here. ^_^

I'm a Pagan. I was a Christian for the majority of my life, Christian parents do have Christian children. Until the Christian children turn into their own persons, anyway.

And this 'debate' really has turned into a tossing of insults and a conglomeration of ideals that just don't mesh well.

Christians are Christians, Islamics are Islamics (though their prophet was a bit freaky with the young'un, you must remember, that was tradition.) Both religions are equally valid for the people that follow them. You put two staunch believers in a room with each other and they will argue until one of them dies. So what is the point in throwing insults at each other?

Science and Religion have been going against each other for centuries. Centuries. The fact of the matter is, Religion is an idea of faith, of mind, and of heart.

Science is cold, sterile, and it always has to be right. I dislike both of them, yet you can see where one will grab a foothole in the other.

It's very obvious that MJ knows absolutely nothing about Christianity. That's fine, MJ is quite obviously Islamic. So why would he?

GentilHomme is very right in the way that most entities were orginally just ideas, thoughts, comforts. Psychological blankets, if you will. I'll admit, I use my Paganism as a blanket, though it isn't just that to me.

Science is a cold room. You go into it to find what you need and then you leave.

Religion, in my experience, is something some people need to survive.

Can you really compare the two?

 

[Gentilhomme]

ok.. now let us be frank

 

[Gentilhomme]

the view that science is sterile is yours, it isn't fact. It can strike passion and enlighenmnet in the minds AND hearts of those who search it for anwsers, and it dosn't always need to be right, just function without being constantly baggared by religion who holds special rights because of peoples dependancy on it. Keep in mind, people depend on science too, don't take that as just a 'she needs a tumour removed' snese (which is DAMN importent) but if you look at religion, it was just a rabble of people looking for anwsers, they didn't have they knowledge to anwser them truthfully (which isn't to say they LIED in a negative sense) so they made answers which have had thousands of years to bubble up. Science, as a truely funtional system, is still quite young and therefore dosn't have the same place in peoples lives. So if you really think about it, science is just religion v2.1. Its is functional, factual and accually does preform miricles.

While your views hold some truth, they seem to be very much yours, in a debate it is best to leave personal feelings aside and look at facts if you wanna get to the nitty gritty. PS J.P smells like dog urine.

 

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

(Burnung redheads, hanging black people, slaughtering Jews, crashing planes into towers etc...)

This is my point exactly, all 4 of these examples were done in the name of some ideology, but not in the name God! (notice crashing planes into towers by islamic al-queda) This is why I say that islam is NOT a religion, it is a socio-political ideology. Much like communism of the former soviet union that had elements of atheism in it, Islam has elements of monotheism in it.

Oh and one last thing, ENOUGH WITH THE PEDOPHILIA BS! You can say what is wrong is wrong, but the simple fact is, what is consider WRONG is completely reletive to the time,

Then was it not wrong for the nazis to kill 6 million jews in germany and poland form 1939 to 1945 because for them it was socially accepted? Was it not wrong for lynch mobs to hang african americans (less than 100 years ago, thanks Omega)? Was it not wrong for mohammed(may piss be upon him) to **** a 9 year old little girl? I really want to see your answer to these three questions.