Science and Religion

[Mohammed_Rots_In_Hell]

Every religion has taken its turn on the wheel.
Between the Early Middle Ages up until 200 or so years ago, Christians persecuted Witches, so if I was female, I would've been scared shitless.
If someone was blamed of lying, they put out two boiling pots of water, with rings placed at the bottom, and the two "debators" would reach in, grab the ring, and remove it. Whoever was scolded the least was telling the truth because it was "Gods' Will." In Europe during the Middle Ages, is someone bathed more than once a month, they were hung for they were charged as a Muslim, (and Solomon didn't hang the Christians even after the 7 or so Crusades.)

During the change between BC and AD, the Jews were in the picture. They were quite anti-Christian, and it showed. I believe you'd know stories.

The Romans persecuted all of the Christians up until 300 AD, then Constantine in 324 Christianized the place. For those three hundred years, any one accused of being Christian was killed, and I'm sure it happened to the Jews beforehand.

The Persains used to supress the Greeks (Xeres,) and they killed their men without cause, and fought against civilian towns (in turn they got their asses kicked.)

The Nazi's persecuted Jews, and murdered over 3,000,000 of them.

Now, I guess, it's Islams turn to be skewed from their beliefs and take such actions.

Now, tell me, if you lived in any of these time periods, would you be afraid of being on the oppressed side? Yes, of course.
So of course, you're going to be afraid of a skewed and pissed Muslim. I'd be afraid of a KKK member or an Israeli militant.

MJ,

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I live in the here and now, not 12 centuries ago. The problem I talk about is the present, and the evils of islam that have inhabited your religion since it's inception.

And no, I wouldn't have been afraid of a muslim if I lived 100 years ago, because although they still had the same bloodlust for death and carnage they didn't have the means or funds to carry out their malevolent schemes.

After the USA went to Arabia and drilled the oil, setup the the petroleum infrastructure and then GAVE it all to the arabs, The evil islamic powers now have the money to fund their mayhem.

Those people who conducted witch trials were not exactly practicing "turn the other cheek" now were they! But the muslims that kill, mame, and destroy find hundreds of verses in the koran to back up their ****!

 

[OmegaManiac]

Science is SCIENCE

Religion is not science

You ask why? You say explain? Ok I will proceed.



Under science we have this process:

Observation/Discoveries

Hypotheses

Provable Facts

Changing base lines (because Science does not claim to be inflexibly right, just correct based on observable, provable process and facts at the time)

Theories (Theories change also, and often, as more facts come in)

Progress



Under religion we have this process:

Undisputed acceptance of the beginning of things, if you don

 

[Gentilhomme]

ok MRIH, you keep talking about the here and now but the simple concept that you keep missing is the fact that History holds just as much truth as the moment. We were humans then and we are humans now, evil minds are evil minds and so fourth.

And if you think that Islam never had funds throughout its history, then you may want to re-check your texts. The middle easteren economy was one of the best on the planet (Reference: Arab conquest of the Byzantine Empire etc...), they were ideally placed for trade with most of the old world and had the ability to draw on the best of European, African and Oriental technologies. This golden age of middle eastern economy has past for now, but to say that they were a gaggle of helpless babies before the Great and wise US came in is a staement based in ignorence. Enlighten yourself, or maybe MJ will...

 

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Science is SCIENCE

Religion is not science

You ask why? You say explain? Ok I will proceed.



Under science we have this process:

Observation/Discoveries

Hypotheses

Provable Facts

Changing base lines (because Science does not claim to be inflexibly right, just correct based on observable, provable process and facts at the time)

Theories (Theories change also, and often, as more facts come in)

Progress



Under religion we have this process:

Undisputed acceptance of the beginning of things, if you don

 

[snafu]

Science is SCIENCE

Religion is not science

You ask why? You say explain? Ok I will proceed.



Under science we have this process:

Observation/Discoveries

Hypotheses

Provable Facts

Changing base lines (because Science does not claim to be inflexibly right, just correct based on observable, provable process and facts at the time)

Theories (Theories change also, and often, as more facts come in)

Progress



Under religion we have this process:

Undisputed acceptance of the beginning of things, if you don

 

[Gentilhomme]

The fact that we;re here proves absolutly nothing for religion, Science does give us a good logical example of why we are here. In the same way that 2+2=4, ameba+mutation=man (we'll toss in a few million years too) These arne't terribly complicated principals were you to accually learn why people have come to such a conclusion. But, putting logic aside, religions argument of "Well since science has yet to fully-explain it, then we MUST be right!!" Is thin to say the least. Science and the arts are functoinal elemants of education, religon offers no more proof then a 4 year olds estimate that their grandmother is 5 ba-jillion years old. If religion is to be taught as fact, then i'ld like my guess at grandma's age to be taight in the adjecent class.

Not yet knowing something dosn't mean that it can't be known. (Guess thunder wasn't god's wrath, opps! ) Religion has and will continue to have a roll in society, but the only good i can see coming from it is to indivuels that find comfort in the good things thaught by the respective institutions and have enough sense to realize what in those teaching is now useless/terrible in today's world. The institutions themselves simply can't seem ignore the dumness so their influence will be, for the most part, a negitive one.

 

[snafu]

Science can

 

[Gentilhomme]

By your same rational, there is no more proof of other galaxies then there is evolution. (Well all signs point to it, evenwithout looking, but i don't have a telescope so i guess it dosn't, do pa do...) It all makes perfect sense, like saying "how did that slug get here?" well, follow the damn slime trail. Ofcorse we didn't witness the slug accually starting his journey to "There" but theres a damn good chance!
There is also the fact that we can see, the incredable resemblance of embryos within animals of the same class. If you think thats just some amzing coincidence and there is no possiblity of a shared origin then well, either somethign has ripped the logic right outta your skull (Amen) or you were the kid that wore mittens on his coat year round.
Religion can been seen as a theroy, yes, but it is really out there and without ANY grounding. I do not believe stories to be valid. Facts and reason which were come too over a long time, through many minds and scrutinated to the point that, were they false, they'd be shot down like almost every other false belief that came before it. (My cocain example, the theroy of spontanious genertaion etc...) The information wasn't there, so they were forgotten.
Evolution gives us the information and it makes sense. Refusing to accept it is no different then refusing to believe that 2+2=4. they are both facts (yah the Theroy thing, but only until we make time mechines i guess), but one conflicts with deep rooted beliefs/misconceptions that refuse to disappear.

 

[freemindmuseum]

The bible is full of contradictions and lame fairy tale writing most likely for the purpose of propaganda. It was the mass media of biblical times... to get the people behind all the killing that needed to be done... "we're the chosen ones! All others must die!" ... but Remember... Tho Shall Not Kill.

Here's an argument for you... science IS religion!
Forget the God you read about in the Holy Bible. If you believe that God created the universe, then what else do you need? Why put so much focus on a book that's been pawed over thousands of times over by people with questionable motives. All you need to do is look into the sky at the stars... look at the trees and animals and people around you... these are the work of God. If you understand and respect the universe than you are closer to God and his work.

Do you really think God would all of a sudden, after millions of years of the universe's history, decide to give a couple of jokers in biblical times his "word" in one particular language so that it could be so easily misinterpreted and misused? You're not giving the all-powerful God much credit, are you?

The language of God is all around you... in nature. There is no mistake about whether a tree is a tree... no translations needed. In fact, it doesn't even need a language at all. Locking yourself up in a room and praying or fasting or reading the bible is just shutting yourself off from God and his work. If you want to study God's work, just study science... astronomy... biology...etc... Put down that darn bible, already, and take a hike through the woods and witness God's work.

 

[Master_Jaffer]

Heh, if previous religions weren't misinterpereted, then there'd be no reason for newer ones. God wouldn't protect a fleeting religion, and in the Qu'ran, God says he'll protect the Qu'ran from change, and that any changes will be found easily.
If you've followed my posts on this board, you'd notice that I easily spot all of the mistranslations and the intentionally changed one... so it holds, I guess.

Oh well... I haven't been able to focus lately, so I can't really debate anything.

 

[Gentilhomme]

Yah your posts have been quite respectable, i enjoy that muchly, but God seems to be out for a ****. As i'm sure you've noticed, there is a **** load of nut cases bastardising your religion and using it as an excuse for mass murder.

If god really existed, and those were it''s words which are also unchangable, then why the hell would he allow this **** to go on? Nothing agaisnt Islam in particular, but the mere fact that it (as well as most religions) force themselves upon masses of people who then become so memorized by these supposed anwsers/guidlines/lessons that are really no more then stories (stories can have morals too, but wht the hell isn't anyone Worshipping the 3 Billy Goats?) then when one of these master of hypnotism decides to lead these sheep into battle for his own reasons then the **** hits the fan! (or in a more moderen example, an Abrems tank. but it shouldn't have been there anyway )

To be fair, any nutcase dum anough to follow some other nutcase to his death, and the deaths of innocents, probably didn't need a religion to make him do it. But since religions have such a social impact (the amount of which varies form place to place of course) then if that religion got bined up, you then have a large social group of boned nutcases brought up on boned-ness! this i think is where MRIH is blinded, religion plays a much larger role in these supposed terrorist states. (Not that i think the US couldn't stand to lose a few pounds of Theocracy ) But yes.

Thats all i'll sya for now.

 

[phreakwars]

You do bring up an interesting point though... why do Muslims let other Muslims basterdize there religion ??

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[Master_Jaffer]

You do bring up an interesting point though... why do Muslims let other Muslims basterdize there religion ??

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Perhaps they are fearful of concequences (SP? to the max,) seeing as the terrorist are a bunch of raving idiots with guns >_<.
Either that or hardly any of them are good Muslims, seeing as one law in Islam is as follows
If you see a sin taking place (such as the blasphemy in the Islamic world,) one of three actions must be taken:
A.) Physically stop the act,
B.) If danger is entwined, and you fear for your life, verbally stop the act,
C.) If it is impossible or dangerous for you to stop the act, reject it in your heart.

I believe most Muslims in the modern world use the latter of the three (including me generally ,) and are either just overly fearful or powerless, or are just damn lazy.

I do remember listening to the Khoutba (before prayers, the Shiekh talks about stuff, religion (defining surahs,) contemporary Islam, that kind of stuff,) and he talked about Iraq, (this was after the bombing of a Mosque,) and he spoke about how disillusioned the Muslims have become, and how most of them in the modern world are doomed.

Oh well, maybe when I'm thirty and have some decent funding, I'll speak out against them.

 

[Msixty]

so your all a bunch of chicken shits that see a man with a gun and just bend over without a fight?

 

[Crazywumbat]

so your all a bunch of chicken shits that see a man with a gun and just bend over without a fight?

Either that, or they do speak up but people like you are too busy chanting "Terrorists" to hear them.

 

[Gentilhomme]

Really M60, some people put a little value on their lives AND the lives of their families. Alot of them are powerless (In an unorganized kinda way) and either stay out of the maniacs way or 'fight' and end up another corpse in the pile. (Right next to brother, sister, son daughter, ma, pa etc...) So if you think its as easy as "Stand up for it dummy!" then your sadly mistaken. Go and live with the common folk of Bagdahd for a year or two and see how long you last with a no-bullshit attitude.

As for MJ, the point i was making above is that if god dosn't tolerate the basterdizing of Islam, the why the **** isn't he at work? Unless the great Monty-Python foot makes a stomping of the assholes i'll just hold this as more proof of a religions falicies and that its all just shite in the end.

 

[fullauto]

As for MJ, the point i was making above is that if god dosn't tolerate the basterdizing of Islam, the why the **** isn't he at work? Unless the great Monty-Python foot makes a stomping of the assholes i'll just hold this as more proof of a religions falicies and that its all just shite in the end.

OYEA OYEA.... on this day of our lord... Gentille hath speaketh the truth!

 

[snafu]

Really M60, some people put a little value on their lives AND the lives of their families. Alot of them are powerless (In an unorganized kinda way) and either stay out of the maniacs way or 'fight' and end up another corpse in the pile. (Right next to brother, sister, son daughter, ma, pa etc...) So if you think its as easy as "Stand up for it dummy!" then your sadly mistaken. Go and live with the common folk of Bagdahd for a year or two and see how long you last with a no-bullshit attitude.

I guess you

 

[Gentilhomme]

Sacrificing yourself is reletivly easy and yah, were MY fmaily bodies in the pile i'ld run at the with the pointyest stick i can find and give em hell!....Problem: what if your family ISN"T in the pile and you still feel the need to protect them and be there for them. Now we'v run into a situation that most people consider morally trying:
Take up arms, leaving my family but with a chance of saving more ppl in the long run or,
Staying with my family, ensuring the safty of those i care about and hoping that the idiots kill themselves off.

Now the 'take up arms folk' do exist, well they did. that is until they joined the Iraqui police force or the military then got car bombed or bruned to death in some terrible way. The thing about fighting terrorists is that they terrify people, (Hell, the US shut down for years when there was really little danger of 747 enduced Genocide)
So when there is acual **** going down around you you're a little less brave. realy, how many americans were afriad to open their mail a few years back. Were terrified of SARS (Only a 92% chance of survival and general discomfort OH SWEET JESUS NO!!!) Americans (and yah, canadians too, but not quite an extreme extent) get paraniod of anything they media feeds them. Set those same malable sissies into a warzone and see what they do.