So much for women's rights!

[tizz]

OK so we went to Iraq and we ended up being told it was for liberation ya? Well aparently that does not go for the women. As soon as Iraq got it's power back in govt, they stick sharia law on teh women. As it stands women will not be able to go out of the house without a man, get married without consent of a male family member, the marriage age for WOMEN is 9 ( I can understand arranged marriage but getting actually married this young is not only no longer necesary but dangerous) and in divorce the wome will have no rights or equality unless they had allready written it inot the contract marriage (which many women are not instructed to do if they know about it at all). OK this pisses me off. Not only do I not understand or agree with this but the women of Iraq are actually supporting this in high numbers? All I can do is think they are reacting out of fear! I understand fullly the desire to hold onto tradition and culture, but there has been so much negativity that has come out of this set up. Horror stories from women living under sharia law. As I see it, our whole invasion has done NOTHING for women except perhaps cause devistation as they watch their country get blown to to hell and watch their men and children die. Simple as that. It just disturbs me. Yes women have been given positions of power in govt, but what has that done?

I admit I may just be completely ignorant to the culture of it al (i admit it has been quite the challenge to attampt to understand fully the cultures of the middle east, but not from lack of trying) but this pisses me off

 

[fullauto]

We can invade them, give them better electrical service, better education, better hospitals, the right to vote, and all that jazz... But, you cannot force people to change thier culture overnight... It's ingrained into them and thier daily life and will be so for a long time... Besides, If we wanted to change thier culture, democracy would hardly be the best form of government to impose... with democrac, they vote thier feelings, and as of this point, most Iraqis feel the most aspects of sharia law is beneficial to thier culture... who are we to tell them what to think...

 

[tizz]

I understand all that, but I cannot iunderstnad wonmen pushing for this as well. LIke I said there is ALOT I cannot seem to comprehend about the culture. It's just a perspective I cannot seem to grasp. (again personal experince may have made me biased)

 

[fullauto]

**** like that happens all the time... I can't understand MOST of it, but it does happen... EG there were MANY jews that spoke out in favor of Hitler, and even some that joined the Nazi party! Go figure...

 

[tizz]

Well hitler id not start out against eth jews he led up to it (which is probably why so many people followed him in the first place)

 

[fullauto]

Hitler was Vehmently anti-Jewish following WWI, But most of his early rhetoric was about German Nationalist Pride, and Restoring German Economic independence... The German Jews at that time found his speeches to be invigorating...

Now let me make this point absolutely clear... There were Hasidic Jews, and then there were German Jew... The earlier ones were the non conformists sort... The spoke Yiddish, dressed Jewish, and largely kept to themselves within the community... Kinda what black are doing in this country... The thing is, they are sublimely clever with business and tended to favor Jewish business over German business... and they had ALOT of business... they controlled the majority of trade going in and out of Germany just before WWII.

The German Jews were like our Colon Powell... They Spoke German, they dressed German, and had completely assimilated into the German culture... Outside of having 'Jewish blood' (if there were such a thing), they were German...

the Jews (not assimilated) after WWI started buying up all the then cheapened real estate in a bid to control the economy... They did just that... Through investment, and some insider financing, they had controlled the majority of Germany's trade by 1936 to include 95% of it's banking industry! This was seen as a BIG threat to the Germans and the assimilated German-Jews because the Jew had a history of using shady deals to manipulate the government...

The Jews in Germany pushed their luck too far when they secretly announced a trade war that would cripple German industry and economy to pressure German government into capitulating on some demands they had... The resulting decline in food imports (due to 80% of food in Germany at the time were imports bought with proceeds from exported goods that were no longer being exported) were seen as the result of Jewish control over the economy... and rightfully so... This prompted the Germans and indeed the assimilated German Jews to boycott all Jewish business...

That is why they painted the Star of David on the windows of Jewish businesses during Krystal Nacht... Not because the German people just woke up one day and started to kill Jews... It was a boycott...

You have to understand just what Germany was like after WWI

The Versailles Treaty had cripple that nation and oppressed a Brilliant culture... Their industry was limited, their pride was stripped and they alone was saddled with the blame for WWI in it's entirety.. These people were very vulnerable to any kind of rhetoric and Hitler and his Cronies knew that...

But the 'Final Solution' was not well known in Germany until a bit later into the war... and the Nuremberg Laws which were very racist toward Jews were not strictly enforced or well known either, and was accepted only because most Germans felt that if Jews would not assimilate and become Germans, They should not try to assimilate either... Separate but Equal was the thinking!

But the assimilated German-Jews, were culturally German, and felt the same economic side effects of Jewish control over the banking industry... Many lost jobs, homes, and ultimately respect for the 'at first welcomed' Jewish population... When you try to grasp it, think of Bill Cosby... He's Black, but culturally he's an assimilated American... and he's PISSED at the African American community...

 

[tizz]

I see a new topic coming out of this

HHMMMM perhaps the dangers of nationalism?

 

[fullauto]

perhaps... perhaps the dangers of not requiring people to assimilate... we are feeling the effects now... but no one understands it...

 

[tizz]

It would still be a fun topic

 

[fullauto]

one of my favorites... always hurts peoples feelings....

 

[tizz]

So did oyu start a new thread yet? FOr gods sake link it in to that post. I wanna play with that one! LOL

 

[eisanbt]

perhaps... perhaps the dangers of not requiring people to assimilate... we are feeling the effects now... but no one understands it...

Only a danger if your goal is to mold the world in your image. I think its certainly a raw deal but if the people who want it (women and men) want it, then hey, i'm not going to stop them. BUT when it starts being forced upon those who repute such legislation then it is time move them where they can live on their own terms. (Again, GO COMMUNIAL SOCIALISM/ANARCHISM with CONSENSEs decision making!!!!)

 

[Msixty]

Hitler was a one nutted Jew

 

[sovikolp]

I think there are too much emphasis on womens rights, black civil movement, gay rights...

just because you're different you're suppose to be treated equally?

WTF sorta non-sense is that?

We don't live in a communist country where everyone is equal or gets equally.

It's not always a pretty world where you get what you don't deserve because it's faire.

if you want it, the opportunity is there for you to take.

I think people should all blame how they are, instead of who they are.

 

[tizz]

I was thinking more of having the right NOT to get your assed kicked by your husband or the right to SOMETHING should you seek a LEGAL divorce, and the right to actually seek help if you are raped instead of being stoned for it. Not too much in my mind.

 

[ALLAH IS GREAT]

Tizzy you need to understand that sharia law are laws produced by men not God.I believe these laws have been set to advantage the men more than the women.And God forbids this.I'm a sunni muslim,therefore I follow the teachings of the Qu'ran and the Prophet Muhammed.

The Quran prohibits even Prophet Mohammad from issuing any religious teachings other than the Quran or explaining the Quran in verses 69:43-47 and 75:16-19. The religious scholars, however, in defiance of the Quran have created religious laws never authorized by God.

There are only 3 verses that speak of the woman's dress code in the Qu'ran:

"O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful." 33:59

"Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do." 24:30

"And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands,.....They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed." 24:31

The Muslims of today have created unreasonable dress code for women based on tradition and customs in the name of God and Islam.Sharia laws are a perfect example.

The equality of men and women is also mentioned in the Quran,but men have misinterpreted some of the verses just to command women.

"Their Lord responded to them: 'I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you male or female - you are equal to one another. Thus, those who immigrate, and get evicted from their homes, and are persecuted because of Me, and fight and get killed, I will surely remit their sins and admit them into gardens with flowing streams.' Such is the reward from GOD. GOD possesses the ultimate reward." 3:195

"The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise." 9:71

"GOD promises the believing men and the believing women gardens with flowing streams, wherein they abide forever, and magnificent mansions in the gardens of Eden. And GOD's blessings and approval are even greater. This is the greatest triumph." 9:72

"The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate GOD frequently, and the commemorating women; GOD has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense." 33:35

There is absolutely nowhere in the Qu'ran that specifies that men have higher status than women.It says that we are all equal in front of God.But if the sharia law is saying that men are higher,then this contradicts the Qu'ran,and therefore they have changed the word of God to suit their lifestyle.
If you people wanna understand the real Islam,it's time to throw away the laws of men and read the laws of God.You'll see a huge difference and infinite
contradictions.

 

[tizz]

AIG I fully understand that which is part of why I cannot understand the use of sharia law. ( I have yet to grasp a good understanding of islam but sharia law is just aggrivating) Iraq ISlooking to institute Sharia law and make it a part of it's constitution. THAT is what pisses me off

 

[ALLAH IS GREAT]

AIG I fully understand that which is part of why I cannot understand the use of sharia law. ( I have yet to grasp a good understanding of islam but sharia law is just aggrivating) Iraq ISlooking to institute Sharia law and make it a part of it's constitution. THAT is what pisses me off

Well I don't know about that.But if most of the women are happy about it,then they must not have been treated so badly as the iranian women.

I was thinking more of having the right NOT to get your assed kicked by your husband or the right to SOMETHING should you seek a LEGAL divorce, and the right to actually seek help if you are raped instead of being stoned for it. Not too much in my mind.

Tizz,you don't get stoned cos you were raped,that's a lie.
Divorce is highly spoken of in the Quran.

TALAQ-DIVORCE


[Talaq 65:1] O dear Prophet (Mohammed

 

[tizz]

Divorcce is allowed but under the new law women will have no rights in a divorce unless they had it written into the contract marriage (which was admitted that out of antimidation or ignorance doesn't happen) As for teh stoning, it is written into many sharia law that unless a women can get 4 men to bare witness to a rape she CAN be stoned. THere was a highly publicized case of a girl raped by her brother. She was sentenced to be stoned, he was caned. I am not talking about Islam here but SHARIA law. I am enlightened enough to separate the two. I am not sure about women being "happy" about it but more like antimidated into it. There have appready been cases of women being abused and beaten for speaking out against sharia law in Iraq.

 

[tizz]

October 20, 2004

Iran: 13-Year-Old Girl Sentenced to Death for Incest
In Iran, a 13-year-old girl has been sentenced to death because her 15-year-old brother got her pregnant. The boy, of course, doesn't face a death sentence - he'll only be whipped 150 times with a lash. Zhila Izadi just gave birth to her child so now she is eligible for stoning by the community.

: http://atheism.about.com/b/a/120277.htm



Iran Focus

Tehran, Iran, Aug. 17