The Iraq War has ruined Iraqi womens lives and freedom. END IT NOW!

S

Sunny

Guest
The Iraq Legacy: Millions of Women's Lives Destroyed

By Nadje Al-Ali, Posted March 31, 2008.



Politicians hoped the Iraq war would see the advance of women's
rights. Instead, Iraqi women face violence, sexual abuse and
segregation.

On International Women's Day in 2004, nearly a year after the invasion
of Iraq, George Bush, the US President, addressed 250 women from
around the world who had gathered at the White House. "The advance of
women's rights and the advance of liberty are ultimately inseparable,"
he said. Supported by his wife Laura, who herself hailed the
administration's success in achieving greater rights for Afghan women,
the president claimed that "the advance of freedom in the greater
Middle East has given new rights and new hopes to women there."

Advance. New rights. New hopes. Stirring stuff, but totally empty
claims. In fact, Iraq's women have become the biggest losers in the
post-invasion disaster. While men have borne the brunt in terms of
direct armed violence, women have been particularly hard-hit by
poverty, malnutrition, lack of health services and a crumbling
infrastructure, not least chronic power cuts which in some areas of
Iraq see electricity only available for two hours a day.

More than 70 percent of the four million people forced out of their
homes in the past five years in Iraq have been women and children.
Many have found temporary shelter with relatives who share their
limited space, food and supplies. But this, according to the UN
refugee agency, has created "rising tension between families over
scarce resources." Many displaced women and children find themselves
in unsanitary and overcrowded public buildings under constant threat
of eviction.

Meanwhile, rampant political violence has also engulfed women in Iraq.
Islamist militias with links to political parties in government and
insurgent groups opposing both the government and the occupation have
particularly targeted Iraqi women and girls. A new Islamist puritanism
is seeing women and girls being violently pressured to conform to
rigid dress codes. Personal movement and social behaviour are being
"regulated," with acid attacks (deliberately designed to disfigure
"transgressive" women's faces), just one of the sanctions of the new
moral guardians of post-Saddam Iraq.

Suad F, a former accountant and mother of four children who lives in a
previously mixed neighbourhood in Baghdad, was telling me during a
visit to Amman in 2006: "I resisted for a long time, but last year
also started wearing the hijab, after I was threatened by several
Islamist militants in front of my house. They are terrorising the
whole neighbourhood, behaving as if they were in charge. And they are
actually controlling the area. No one dares to challenge them. A few
months ago they distributed leaflets around the area warning people to
obey them and demanding that women should stay at home."

By 2008, the threat posed by Islamist militias and extremist groups
has gone far beyond dress codes and calls for gender segregation at
universities. Despite -- or even partly because of US and UK rhetoric
about liberation and women's rights -- women have been pushed back
into their homes.

Women who have a public profile -- as teachers, doctors, academics,
lawyers, NGO activists or politicians -- are now systematically
threatened, seen as legitimate targets for assassinations. Criminal
gangs have joined in. Though rarely reported in Britain, the criminal
kidnapping of women for ransom, for trafficking into forced
prostitution outside Iraq, and for out and out sexual abuse have all
taken root in post-Saddam Iraq.

Killings in Basra in 2007 provide a snapshot. According to a study by
the Basra Security Committee, 133 women were killed last year in the
UK-controlled city, either by religious vigilantes or as a result of
so-called honour killings. Of these, 79 were deemed to have "violated
Islamic teachings," 47 were killed to preserve supposed family honour,
and the remaining seven were targeted for their political
affiliations. As Amnesty International said last year, "politically
active women, those who did not follow a strict dress code, and women
[who are] human rights defenders are increasingly at risk of abuses,
including by armed groups and religious extremists."

The invasion and occupation of Iraq has also directly added to
suffering of women. While aerial bombings of residential areas have
been responsible for thousands of civilian deaths, many Iraqis have
lost their lives while being shot at by American or British troops.
Whole families have been wiped out as they approached a checkpoint or
did not recognize areas marked as prohibited.

In addition to the killing of innocent women, men and children, the
occupation forces have also been engaged in other forms of violence
against women. There have been numerous documented accounts of
physical assaults at checkpoints and during house searches. American
and British forces have also arrested wives, sisters and daughters of
suspected insurgents in order to pressure them to surrender. Recent
figures show that the US and Iraqi forces are currently holding
(mostly without charge) many thousands of detainees, and even where
women have not been detained as bargaining chips they have spent
frantic months or even years trying to discover where their family
members were being held and why.

Women in Iraq suffered from discrimination and violence well before
2003. Deep-rooted patriarchy (especially in rural and tribal areas)
and the pervasive repression of all women politically resistant to
Saddam's Ba'athist project were hallmarks of life in Iraq in the
1960s, 70s and 80s.

But there were subtleties which gave women relative freedom. First,
Saddam's political acuity meant that he was perfectly capable of a
policy of "state feminism" that partly shifted patriarchal power away
from fathers, husbands and brothers, investing this power in the state
itself -- Saddam himself becoming the father of the nation. As long as
you steered clear of all oppositional politics, this created 20 years
(from the late 1960s on) of moderate liberty for at least Iraq's urban
middle-class women.

Then, with the growing militarization of Iraq after the Iran-Iraq war
and the major reverse of the Gulf war of 1991, Saddam switched policy
toward cultivating political allegiance through tribal leaders. The
upshot for women? A re-assertion of traditional conservative values
that saw women's rights used as bargaining chips and their bodies the
repositories of tribal and familial "honor."

As he stood before his female audience in 2004 did President Bush
actually understand any of this? Was it factored at all? Or instead,
did the US's infamous lack of post-invasion planning include a blind
spot over women's rights? Perhaps George and Laura would like to
update us.

http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/80609/?page=entire
 
Waiving the right to remain silent, "John B." <johnb505@gmail.com> said:

> In Syria, now home to about 2 million Iraqi refugees, Iraqi women and
> girls have turned to prostitution because they have no other means of
> self-support.


Prostitution, in a MUSLIM country..? How could this be...???

--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."
 
On Mar 31, 2:12 pm, Larry in AZ <usen...@DE.LETE.THISljvideo.com>
wrote:
> Waiving the right to remain silent, "John B." <johnb...@gmail.com> said:
>
> > In Syria, now home to about 2 million Iraqi refugees, Iraqi women and
> > girls have turned to prostitution because they have no other means of
> > self-support.

>
> Prostitution, in a MUSLIM country..? How could this be...???



The same way there has always been prostitution in Christian
countries.

VV

>
> --
> Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail
>
> "A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
> with all the privileges that this entails."
 
On Mar 31, 3:59 pm, HarryNadds <hoofhearte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 31, 1:00 pm, "John B." <johnb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 31, 1:51 pm, Sunny <eviltwi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > > The Iraq Legacy: Millions of Women's Lives Destroyed

>
> > > By Nadje Al-Ali, Posted March 31, 2008.

>
> > > Politicians hoped the Iraq war would see the advance of women's
> > > rights. Instead, Iraqi women face violence, sexual abuse and
> > > segregation.

>
> > > On International Women's Day in 2004, nearly a year after the invasion
> > > of Iraq, George Bush, the US President, addressed 250 women from
> > > around the world who had gathered at the White House. "The advance of
> > > women's rights and the advance of liberty are ultimately inseparable,"
> > > he said. Supported by his wife Laura, who herself hailed the
> > > administration's success in achieving greater rights for Afghan women,
> > > the president claimed that "the advance of freedom in the greater
> > > Middle East has given new rights and new hopes to women there."

>
> > > Advance. New rights. New hopes. Stirring stuff, but totally empty
> > > claims. In fact, Iraq's women have become the biggest losers in the
> > > post-invasion disaster. While men have borne the brunt in terms of
> > > direct armed violence, women have been particularly hard-hit by
> > > poverty, malnutrition, lack of health services and a crumbling
> > > infrastructure, not least chronic power cuts which in some areas of
> > > Iraq see electricity only available for two hours a day.

>
> > > More than 70 percent of the four million people forced out of their
> > > homes in the past five years in Iraq have been women and children.
> > > Many have found temporary shelter with relatives who share their
> > > limited space, food and supplies. But this, according to the UN
> > > refugee agency, has created "rising tension between families over
> > > scarce resources." Many displaced women and children find themselves
> > > in unsanitary and overcrowded public buildings under constant threat
> > > of eviction.

>
> > > Meanwhile, rampant political violence has also engulfed women in Iraq.
> > > Islamist militias with links to political parties in government and
> > > insurgent groups opposing both the government and the occupation have
> > > particularly targeted Iraqi women and girls. A new Islamist puritanism
> > > is seeing women and girls being violently pressured to conform to
> > > rigid dress codes. Personal movement and social behaviour are being
> > > "regulated," with acid attacks (deliberately designed to disfigure
> > > "transgressive" women's faces), just one of the sanctions of the new
> > > moral guardians of post-Saddam Iraq.

>
> > > Suad F, a former accountant and mother of four children who lives in a
> > > previously mixed neighbourhood in Baghdad, was telling me during a
> > > visit to Amman in 2006: "I resisted for a long time, but last year
> > > also started wearing the hijab, after I was threatened by several
> > > Islamist militants in front of my house. They are terrorising the
> > > whole neighbourhood, behaving as if they were in charge. And they are
> > > actually controlling the area. No one dares to challenge them. A few
> > > months ago they distributed leaflets around the area warning people to
> > > obey them and demanding that women should stay at home."

>
> > > By 2008, the threat posed by Islamist militias and extremist groups
> > > has gone far beyond dress codes and calls for gender segregation at
> > > universities. Despite -- or even partly because of US and UK rhetoric
> > > about liberation and women's rights -- women have been pushed back
> > > into their homes.

>
> > > Women who have a public profile -- as teachers, doctors, academics,
> > > lawyers, NGO activists or politicians -- are now systematically
> > > threatened, seen as legitimate targets for assassinations. Criminal
> > > gangs have joined in. Though rarely reported in Britain, the criminal
> > > kidnapping of women for ransom, for trafficking into forced
> > > prostitution outside Iraq, and for out and out sexual abuse have all
> > > taken root in post-Saddam Iraq.

>
> > > Killings in Basra in 2007 provide a snapshot. According to a study by
> > > the Basra Security Committee, 133 women were killed last year in the
> > > UK-controlled city, either by religious vigilantes or as a result of
> > > so-called honour killings. Of these, 79 were deemed to have "violated
> > > Islamic teachings," 47 were killed to preserve supposed family honour,
> > > and the remaining seven were targeted for their political
> > > affiliations. As Amnesty International said last year, "politically
> > > active women, those who did not follow a strict dress code, and women
> > > [who are] human rights defenders are increasingly at risk of abuses,
> > > including by armed groups and religious extremists."

>
> > > The invasion and occupation of Iraq has also directly added to
> > > suffering of women. While aerial bombings of residential areas have
> > > been responsible for thousands of civilian deaths, many Iraqis have
> > > lost their lives while being shot at by American or British troops.
> > > Whole families have been wiped out as they approached a checkpoint or
> > > did not recognize areas marked as prohibited.

>
> > > In addition to the killing of innocent women, men and children, the
> > > occupation forces have also been engaged in other forms of violence
> > > against women. There have been numerous documented accounts of
> > > physical assaults at checkpoints and during house searches. American
> > > and British forces have also arrested wives, sisters and daughters of
> > > suspected insurgents in order to pressure them to surrender. Recent
> > > figures show that the US and Iraqi forces are currently holding
> > > (mostly without charge) many thousands of detainees, and even where
> > > women have not been detained as bargaining chips they have spent
> > > frantic months or even years trying to discover where their family
> > > members were being held and why.

>
> > > Women in Iraq suffered from discrimination and violence well before
> > > 2003. Deep-rooted patriarchy (especially in rural and tribal areas)
> > > and the pervasive repression of all women politically resistant to
> > > Saddam's Ba'athist project were hallmarks of life in Iraq in the
> > > 1960s, 70s and 80s.

>
> > > But there were subtleties which gave women relative freedom. First,
> > > Saddam's political acuity meant that he was perfectly capable of a
> > > policy of "state feminism" that partly shifted patriarchal power away
> > > from fathers, husbands and brothers, investing this power in the state
> > > itself -- Saddam himself becoming the father of the nation. As long as
> > > you steered clear of all oppositional politics, this created 20 years
> > > (from the late 1960s on) of moderate liberty for at least Iraq's urban
> > > middle-class women.

>
> > > Then, with the growing militarization of Iraq after the Iran-Iraq war
> > > and the major reverse of the Gulf war of 1991, Saddam switched policy
> > > toward cultivating political allegiance through tribal leaders. The
> > > upshot for women? A re-assertion of traditional conservative values
> > > that saw women's rights used as bargaining chips and their bodies the
> > > repositories of tribal and familial "honor."

>
> > > As he stood before his female audience in 2004 did President Bush
> > > actually understand any of this? Was it factored at all? Or instead,
> > > did the US's infamous lack of post-invasion planning include a blind
> > > spot over women's rights? Perhaps George and Laura would like to
> > > update us.

>
> > >http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/80609/?page=entire

>
> > In Syria, now home to about 2 million Iraqi refugees, Iraqi women and
> > girls have turned to prostitution because they have no other means of
> > self-support.

>
> > George W. Bush and his gang of neocon thugs are directly to blame for
> > this.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -

>
> Oh yeah,the muslim women had it so much better under Saddam.Now they
> drive cars,have jobs and actually can show their faces without being
> drawn and quartered or stoned to death.Oh,for the good old
> days.Goddamned George Bush !!!


Nope. They were able to drive cars, have jobs, and show their faces
without being drawn and quartered to death.

Now they can't.

Are all war mongers this ignorant, or just the ones posting in
newsgroups?

VV
 
On Mar 31, 7:58 pm, Sunny <eviltwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 31, 4:07 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:> > Oh yeah,the muslim women had it so much better under Saddam.Now they
> > > drive cars,have jobs and actually can show their faces without being
> > > drawn and quartered or stoned to death.Oh,for the good old
> > > days.Goddamned George Bush !!!

>
> > Nope. They were able to drive cars, have jobs, and show their faces
> > without being drawn and quartered to death.

>
> > Now they can't.

>
> > Are all war mongers this ignorant, or just the ones posting in
> > newsgroups?

>
> Good point Viejo. I suspect many of them are so deluded that they
> believe Saddam's Iraq (a relatively tolerant secular, socialist
> country, albeit under a dictator) was Saudi Arabia. ****ing
> ignoramuses!




Saddam Hussein was a son of a bitch. But, he was an equal opportunity
son of a bitch. Unlike Mobutu who took pride in never having built a
road, under his regime the country developed a lot, and literacy rose
a lot. Unfortunately, pushed by other Sunni regimes, he got in a
conflict with Iran. Despite all the support from everybody, his army
was not able to defeat the Iranians. Kuwait demanded payment of all
the money they loaned to Saddam, so Saddam, after checking with US
ambassador April Glaspie, went ahead with the invasion of Kuwait. And
actually, the US had no intention of intervening, but Margaret
Thatcher kept pushing the issue, and (most importantly) the Saudi
regime started to get nervous: they saw a next door monarchy being
thrown out by an invasion, and convinced the US government that the
Saudi supply of oil was in danger.

VV
 
"HarryNadds" <hoofhearted07@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0b088d4f-e913-48ba-ac29-

Oh yeah,the muslim women had it so much better under Saddam.Now they
drive cars,have jobs and actually can show their faces without being
drawn and quartered or stoned to death.Oh,for the good old
days.Goddamned George Bush !!!

Geez. How can you rightards possibly be so ignorant about absolutely
everything .
Under the USA's old buddy Iraq was secular and women drove cars and had
high-paid jobs and were not forced to wear a sack over their heads.
Now all that has changed thanks to the war-criminal and his noecon thugs.
Try to get at least something right you ****ing retard.
 
"Sunny" <eviltwin05@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6ccde5bb-d40e-4d7b-a920-36f5027628b2@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 31, 4:07 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Oh yeah,the muslim women had it so much better under Saddam.Now they
> > drive cars,have jobs and actually can show their faces without being
> > drawn and quartered or stoned to death.Oh,for the good old
> > days.Goddamned George Bush !!!

>
> Nope. They were able to drive cars, have jobs, and show their faces
> without being drawn and quartered to death.
>
> Now they can't.
>
> Are all war mongers this ignorant, or just the ones posting in
> newsgroups?
>

Good point Viejo. I suspect many of them are so deluded that they
believe Saddam's Iraq (a relatively tolerant secular, socialist
country, albeit under a dictator) was Saudi Arabia. ****ing
ignoramuses!

They are truly jaw-dropping in their ignorance are they not.
I was campaigning against Saddam when he was still our 'friend' and I would
have loved to see him get a bullet in the guts - but that these morons think
he was a Muslim fundamentalist and suppressed women... well.. the ignorance
just beggars belief.
Don't they ever read anything other than neocon bullshit.
 
"Viejo Vizcacha" <nats_uglyman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6001ba91-4067-4993-b266-d28d7e1a5c56@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 31, 7:58 pm, Sunny <eviltwi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 31, 4:07 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:> > Oh
>> yeah,the muslim women had it so much better under Saddam.Now they
>> > > drive cars,have jobs and actually can show their faces without being
>> > > drawn and quartered or stoned to death.Oh,for the good old
>> > > days.Goddamned George Bush !!!

>>
>> > Nope. They were able to drive cars, have jobs, and show their faces
>> > without being drawn and quartered to death.

>>
>> > Now they can't.

>>
>> > Are all war mongers this ignorant, or just the ones posting in
>> > newsgroups?

>>
>> Good point Viejo. I suspect many of them are so deluded that they
>> believe Saddam's Iraq (a relatively tolerant secular, socialist
>> country, albeit under a dictator) was Saudi Arabia. ****ing
>> ignoramuses!

>
>
>
> Saddam Hussein was a son of a bitch. But, he was an equal opportunity
> son of a bitch. Unlike Mobutu who took pride in never having built a
> road, under his regime the country developed a lot, and literacy rose
> a lot. Unfortunately, pushed by other Sunni regimes, he got in a
> conflict with Iran. Despite all the support from everybody, his army
> was not able to defeat the Iranians. Kuwait demanded payment of all
> the money they loaned to Saddam, so Saddam, after checking with US
> ambassador April Glaspie, went ahead with the invasion of Kuwait. And
> actually, the US had no intention of intervening, but Margaret
> Thatcher kept pushing the issue, and (most importantly) the Saudi
> regime started to get nervous: they saw a next door monarchy being
> thrown out by an invasion, and convinced the US government that the
> Saudi supply of oil was in danger.


Nah - all you need to know is that "Saddam bombed the Towers" say it after
me - "Saddam bombed the Towers".
Got that.
Oh yeah - and he was just about to send up a nuclear mushroom over
Washington.
All the rest is looney-left raving.


> VV
 
On Apr 1, 11:07 am, HarryNadds <hoofhearte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mar 31, 3:07 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 31, 3:59 pm, HarryNadds <hoofhearte...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> > > On Mar 31, 1:00 pm, "John B." <johnb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > > > On Mar 31, 1:51 pm, Sunny <eviltwi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> > > > > The Iraq Legacy: Millions of Women's Lives Destroyed

>
> > > > > By Nadje Al-Ali, Posted March 31, 2008.

>
> > > > > Politicians hoped the Iraq war would see the advance of women's
> > > > > rights. Instead, Iraqi women face violence, sexual abuse and
> > > > > segregation.

>
> > > > > On International Women's Day in 2004, nearly a year after the invasion
> > > > > of Iraq, George Bush, the US President, addressed 250 women from
> > > > > around the world who had gathered at the White House. "The advance of
> > > > > women's rights and the advance of liberty are ultimately inseparable,"
> > > > > he said. Supported by his wife Laura, who herself hailed the
> > > > > administration's success in achieving greater rights for Afghan women,
> > > > > the president claimed that "the advance of freedom in the greater
> > > > > Middle East has given new rights and new hopes to women there."

>
> > > > > Advance. New rights. New hopes. Stirring stuff, but totally empty
> > > > > claims. In fact, Iraq's women have become the biggest losers in the
> > > > > post-invasion disaster. While men have borne the brunt in terms of
> > > > > direct armed violence, women have been particularly hard-hit by
> > > > > poverty, malnutrition, lack of health services and a crumbling
> > > > > infrastructure, not least chronic power cuts which in some areas of
> > > > > Iraq see electricity only available for two hours a day.

>
> > > > > More than 70 percent of the four million people forced out of their
> > > > > homes in the past five years in Iraq have been women and children.
> > > > > Many have found temporary shelter with relatives who share their
> > > > > limited space, food and supplies. But this, according to the UN
> > > > > refugee agency, has created "rising tension between families over
> > > > > scarce resources." Many displaced women and children find themselves
> > > > > in unsanitary and overcrowded public buildings under constant threat
> > > > > of eviction.

>
> > > > > Meanwhile, rampant political violence has also engulfed women in Iraq.
> > > > > Islamist militias with links to political parties in government and
> > > > > insurgent groups opposing both the government and the occupation have
> > > > > particularly targeted Iraqi women and girls. A new Islamist puritanism
> > > > > is seeing women and girls being violently pressured to conform to
> > > > > rigid dress codes. Personal movement and social behaviour are being
> > > > > "regulated," with acid attacks (deliberately designed to disfigure
> > > > > "transgressive" women's faces), just one of the sanctions of the new
> > > > > moral guardians of post-Saddam Iraq.

>
> > > > > Suad F, a former accountant and mother of four children who lives in a
> > > > > previously mixed neighbourhood in Baghdad, was telling me during a
> > > > > visit to Amman in 2006: "I resisted for a long time, but last year
> > > > > also started wearing the hijab, after I was threatened by several
> > > > > Islamist militants in front of my house. They are terrorising the
> > > > > whole neighbourhood, behaving as if they were in charge. And they are
> > > > > actually controlling the area. No one dares to challenge them. A few
> > > > > months ago they distributed leaflets around the area warning people to
> > > > > obey them and demanding that women should stay at home."

>
> > > > > By 2008, the threat posed by Islamist militias and extremist groups
> > > > > has gone far beyond dress codes and calls for gender segregation at
> > > > > universities. Despite -- or even partly because of US and UK rhetoric
> > > > > about liberation and women's rights -- women have been pushed back
> > > > > into their homes.

>
> > > > > Women who have a public profile -- as teachers, doctors, academics,
> > > > > lawyers, NGO activists or politicians -- are now systematically
> > > > > threatened, seen as legitimate targets for assassinations. Criminal
> > > > > gangs have joined in. Though rarely reported in Britain, the criminal
> > > > > kidnapping of women for ransom, for trafficking into forced
> > > > > prostitution outside Iraq, and for out and out sexual abuse have all
> > > > > taken root in post-Saddam Iraq.

>
> > > > > Killings in Basra in 2007 provide a snapshot. According to a study by
> > > > > the Basra Security Committee, 133 women were killed last year in the
> > > > > UK-controlled city, either by religious vigilantes or as a result of
> > > > > so-called honour killings. Of these, 79 were deemed to have "violated
> > > > > Islamic teachings," 47 were killed to preserve supposed family honour,
> > > > > and the remaining seven were targeted for their political
> > > > > affiliations. As Amnesty International said last year, "politically
> > > > > active women, those who did not follow a strict dress code, and women
> > > > > [who are] human rights defenders are increasingly at risk of abuses,
> > > > > including by armed groups and religious extremists."

>
> > > > > The invasion and occupation of Iraq has also directly added to
> > > > > suffering of women. While aerial bombings of residential areas have
> > > > > been responsible for thousands of civilian deaths, many Iraqis have
> > > > > lost their lives while being shot at by American or British troops.
> > > > > Whole families have been wiped out as they approached a checkpoint or
> > > > > did not recognize areas marked as prohibited.

>
> > > > > In addition to the killing of innocent women, men and children, the
> > > > > occupation forces have also been engaged in other forms of violence
> > > > > against women. There have been numerous documented accounts of
> > > > > physical assaults at checkpoints and during house searches. American
> > > > > and British forces have also arrested wives, sisters and daughters of
> > > > > suspected insurgents in order to pressure them to surrender. Recent
> > > > > figures show that the US and Iraqi forces are currently holding
> > > > > (mostly without charge) many thousands of detainees, and even where
> > > > > women have not been detained as bargaining chips they have spent
> > > > > frantic months or even years trying to discover where their family
> > > > > members were being held and why.

>
> > > > > Women in Iraq suffered from discrimination and violence well before
> > > > > 2003. Deep-rooted patriarchy (especially in rural and tribal areas)
> > > > > and the pervasive repression of all women politically resistant to
> > > > > Saddam's Ba'athist project were hallmarks of life in Iraq in the
> > > > > 1960s, 70s and 80s.

>
> > > > > But there were subtleties which gave women relative freedom. First,
> > > > > Saddam's political acuity meant that he was perfectly capable of a
> > > > > policy of "state feminism" that partly shifted patriarchal power away
> > > > > from fathers, husbands and brothers, investing this power in the state
> > > > > itself -- Saddam himself becoming the father of the nation. As long as
> > > > > you steered clear of all oppositional politics, this created 20 years
> > > > > (from the late 1960s on) of moderate liberty for at least Iraq's urban
> > > > > middle-class women.

>
> > > > > Then, with the growing militarization of Iraq after the Iran-Iraq war
> > > > > and the major reverse of the Gulf war of 1991, Saddam switched policy
> > > > > toward cultivating political allegiance through tribal leaders. The
> > > > > upshot for women? A re-assertion of traditional conservative values
> > > > > that saw women's rights used as bargaining chips and their bodies the
> > > > > repositories of tribal and familial "honor."

>
> > > > > As he stood before his female audience in 2004 did President Bush
> > > > > actually understand any of this? Was it factored at all? Or instead,
> > > > > did the US's infamous lack of post-invasion planning include a blind
> > > > > spot over women's rights? Perhaps George and Laura would like to
> > > > > update us.

>
> > > > >http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejustice/80609/?page=entire

>
> > > > In Syria, now home to about 2 million Iraqi refugees, Iraqi women and
> > > > girls have turned to prostitution because they have no other means of
> > > > self-support.

>
> > > > George W. Bush and his gang of neocon thugs are directly to blame for
> > > > this.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > > - Show quoted text -

>
> > > Oh yeah,the muslim women had it so much better under Saddam.Now they
> > > drive cars,have jobs and actually can show their faces without being
> > > drawn and quartered or stoned to death.Oh,for the good old
> > > days.Goddamned George Bush !!!

>
> > Nope. They were able to drive cars, have jobs, and show their faces
> > without being drawn and quartered to death.

>
> > Now they can't.

>
> > Are all war mongers this ignorant, or just the ones posting in
> > newsgroups?

>
> > VV- Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -

>
> Would you care to make a wager on that?? It's nothing but welfare
> money so what do you have to lose??



With the evidence I have, I would say that you are a fair
representative of the war mongers trolling the newsgroups. Now, I read
that 25% of the people in the US still support Bush.

TWENTY FREAKING FIVE PER CENT!!!!! That means that one in four
supports Bush. So, when I am in an elevator with three others, one of
us is an imbecile supporter of Bush. Now, since sure as hell it is not
me, it means one of these three is a total moron. That is a scary
thought!

VV
 
On Apr 1, 8:41 am, "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <none@none> wrote:
> "Sunny" <eviltwi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:6ccde5bb-d40e-4d7b-a920-36f5027628b2@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 31, 4:07 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:> > Oh yeah,the muslim women had it so much better under Saddam.Now they
> > > drive cars,have jobs and actually can show their faces without being
> > > drawn and quartered or stoned to death.Oh,for the good old
> > > days.Goddamned George Bush !!!

>
> > Nope. They were able to drive cars, have jobs, and show their faces
> > without being drawn and quartered to death.

>
> > Now they can't.

>
> > Are all war mongers this ignorant, or just the ones posting in
> > newsgroups?

>
> Good point Viejo. I suspect many of them are so deluded that they
> believe Saddam's Iraq (a relatively tolerant secular, socialist
> country, albeit under a dictator) was Saudi Arabia. ****ing
> ignoramuses!
>
> They are truly jaw-dropping in their ignorance are they not.
> I was campaigning against Saddam when he was still our 'friend' and I would
> have loved to see him get a bullet in the guts - but that these morons think
> he was a Muslim fundamentalist and suppressed women... well.. the ignorance
> just beggars belief.
> Don't they ever read anything other than neocon bullshit.


Our news media served up an endless feast of misinformation,
misdirection, Anna Nicole Smith, O.J. Simpson, Brittany
and Paris Hilton while ignoring the astonishing deceptions
of the neo-con sovereigntly saboteurs.

That a president of the United States should include
"information" about fictional Uranium from Africa
supposedly sought by Saddam,
based on the flimsiest of make believe evidence, in
a State of the Union address, will give some idea
of how great the Alice in Wonderland like suspension
of belief was in the era after 9-11 when a terrorist
was thought to be hiding in every alley, street corner
and under every bed, a view which
had me fooled for quite some time, - a view carefully encouraged
by the legion of incompetents and profit making terrorist
protection contractors and war contractors who look to
Cheney and Bush (in that order) as their patron saints.

Citizen Jimserac
 
On Apr 1, 5:39 pm, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 8:41 am, "Adam Whyte-Settlar" <none@none> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Sunny" <eviltwi...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:6ccde5bb-d40e-4d7b-a920-36f5027628b2@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> > On Mar 31, 4:07 pm, Viejo Vizcacha <nats_ugly...@yahoo.com> wrote:> > Oh yeah,the muslim women had it so much better under Saddam.Now they
> > > > drive cars,have jobs and actually can show their faces without being
> > > > drawn and quartered or stoned to death.Oh,for the good old
> > > > days.Goddamned George Bush !!!

>
> > > Nope. They were able to drive cars, have jobs, and show their faces
> > > without being drawn and quartered to death.

>
> > > Now they can't.

>
> > > Are all war mongers this ignorant, or just the ones posting in
> > > newsgroups?

>
> > Good point Viejo. I suspect many of them are so deluded that they
> > believe Saddam's Iraq (a relatively tolerant secular, socialist
> > country, albeit under a dictator) was Saudi Arabia. ****ing
> > ignoramuses!

>
> > They are truly jaw-dropping in their ignorance are they not.
> > I was campaigning against Saddam when he was still our 'friend' and I would
> > have loved to see him get a bullet in the guts - but that these morons think
> > he was a Muslim fundamentalist and suppressed women... well.. the ignorance
> > just beggars belief.
> > Don't they ever read anything other than neocon bullshit.

>
> Our news media served up an endless feast of misinformation,
> misdirection, Anna Nicole Smith, O.J. Simpson, Brittany
> and Paris Hilton while ignoring the astonishing deceptions
> of the neo-con sovereigntly saboteurs.
>
> That a president of the United States should include
> "information" about fictional Uranium from Africa
> supposedly sought by Saddam,
> based on the flimsiest of make believe evidence, in
> a State of the Union address, will give some idea
> of how great the Alice in Wonderland like suspension



I think it was a lot worse than that. Because not only they misled the
people and the press, but also committed high treason when outing a
CIA agent.

I cannot decide if this US administration has committed more crimes
than blunders, because most blunders ended up as crimes, and most
crimes ended up in blunders. Bush is, by far, the biggest criminal of
this century.

VV
> of belief was in the era after 9-11 when a terrorist
> was thought to be hiding in every alley, street corner
> and under every bed, a view which
> had me fooled for quite some time, - a view carefully encouraged
> by the legion of incompetents and profit making terrorist
> protection contractors and war contractors who look to
> Cheney and Bush (in that order) as their patron saints.
>
> Citizen Jimserac
 
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