VA shooting

[snafu]

If you have strict gun laws in ALL states, then you get a reduction in gun deaths....

What??? How dose taking my gun help your state? And you do know that were not the only country right? You do know that all guns don't have the "made in USA" stamped on them don't you?

Umm... it's just part of a song and a big ****ing pipe dream that we can "take all of the guns at once and explode them into space". Guns are here. If I want a bazooka and I got the money, I'm getting one.

 

[cybacaT]

snafu

That's precisely why gun laws in places like the UK don't work - because their neighbouring countries don't have the same laws, so the guns just get imported and used.

You're right - if you are determined, and have the finances, there will be a way for you - in that case - to get the weapon you want. So gun laws won't stop someone in that frame of mind.

But...

Then there are hundreds of others who WILL live and avoid a gun death because the heat of the moment shootings dry up to almost zero, the suicide rate drops, the number of accidental shootings drops.


So the question becomes - do gun laws have to stop 100% of gun deaths in order to be justified??

or...

If you can reduce the 30,000 dead each year to 10,000....then is that a goal worth aiming for? Are 20,000 lives saved worth people giving up their hunting? It's a question your citizens and law makers need to ask themselves. Because unless you're currently running a national militia (which you aren't), then you have no constitutional right to bear arms - it's the law makers who are granting US citizens that privilege - not right - at the moment.

 

[snafu]

You can't say having stiffer gun laws will save lives. You just can't do it. And if you want to commit suicide you will. You have no proof they're will be less. There is literally thousands of ways to kill someone. Us non demented people want a recourse.

 

[daddyholland]

You can't say having stiffer gun laws will save lives. You just can't do it. And if you want to commit suicide you will. You have no proof they're will be less. There is literally thousands of ways to kill someone. Us non demented people want a recourse.

I can....just look across the border. We have stiff gun laws and compared to yours, they save a lot of lives!
There is an inherent stigma in the American culture and psyche....that says "its my right by god!" Its a selfish view of the society around you. Dont get me wrong, I am not saying that enforcing stricter gun laws will solve all your problems but it would definately help. A Human life is priceless and saving however many is a worthy goal.
As I see it: in order for America to advance much more in its social infrastructure, it will need to take a better look at this topic and make some serious changes.....the sad thing is, Guns in America are big money and it will be hard to relinquish some of these notions. But the goal is worthy and should be sought after for the betterment of all people.

 

[cybacaT]

snafu

You can't say having stiffer gun laws will save lives. You just can't do it. And if you want to commit suicide you will. You have no proof they're will be less.

Yes...look across the border.

Or...look to Australia. We had plenty more guns out there 10 years ago, but decided to tighten gun laws. We got rid of thousands of weapons, and the number of gun deaths has dropped dramatically.

It's logical. It's factual. And you have real evidence that it works.

 

[hugo]

according to the media the once he was in the room he chained the doors shut.

Windows, dumb****.

 

[RegisteredAndEducated]

snafu

That's precisely why gun laws in places like the UK don't work - because their neighbouring countries don't have the same laws, so the guns just get imported and used.

You're right - if you are determined, and have the finances, there will be a way for you - in that case - to get the weapon you want. So gun laws won't stop someone in that frame of mind.

Basically

 

[hugo]

Suicides per 100,000 people per year:[1][2] Rank Country Year Males Females Total
1. Lithuania 2003 74.3 13.9 42.1
2. Russia 2002 69.3 11.9 38.7
3. Belarus 2003 63.3 10.3 35.1
4. Kazakhstan 2002 50.2 8.8 28.8
5. Slovenia 2003 45.0 12.0 28.1
6. Hungary 2003 44.9 12.0 27.7
7. Estonia 2002 47.7 9.8 27.3
8. Ukraine 2002 46.7 8.4 26.1
9. Latvia 2003 45.0 9.7 26.0
10. Japan 2002 35.2 12.8 23.8
11. Sri Lanka 1996 NA NA 21.6
12. Belgium 1997 31.2 11.4 21.1
13. Finland 2003 31.9 9.8 20.6
14. Croatia 2003 31.4 8.4 19.5
15. Switzerland 2001 26.5 10.6 18.4
16. Cuba 1996 24.5 12.0 18.3
17. Austria 2003 27.1 9.3 17.9
18. Republic of Korea (South Korea) 2002 24.7 11.2 17.9
19. France 2001 26.6 9.1 17.6
20. Republic of Moldova 2003 30.6 4.8 17.2
21. Czech Republic 2003 27.5 6.8 16.9
22. Poland 2002 26.6 5.0 15.5
23. Hong Kong SAR, China 2002 20.7 10.2 15.3
24. Romania 2002 23.9 4.7 14.1
25. Bulgaria 2003 21.0 7.3 14
26. China (selected areas) 1999 13.0 14.8 13.9
27. Denmark 2000 20.2 7.2 13.6
28. Germany 2001 20.4 7.0 13.5
29. Sweden 2001 18.9 8.1 13.4
30. Slovakia 2002 23.6 3.6 13.3
31. Seychelles 1998 NA NA 13.2
32. Australia 2001 20.1 5.3 12.7
33. Ireland 2001 21.4 4.1 12.7
34. Iceland 2001 19.6 5.6 12.6
35. Canada 2001 18.7 5.2 11.9
36. Mauritius 2000 18.8 5.2 11.9
37. New Zealand 2000 19.8 4.2 11.9
38. Suriname 1992 16.6 7.2 11.9
39. Bosnia and Herzegovina 1991 20.3 3.3 11.8
40. Portugal 2002 18.9 4.9 11.7
41. Trinidad and Tobago 1994 17.4 5 11.6
42. Luxembourg 2003 18.5 3.5 10.9
43. Norway 2002 16.1 5.8 10.9
44. India 1998 12.2 9.1 10.7
45. United States 2002 17.6 4.1 11.0

Looks like Australians find other ways to kill themselves. More than half of gun deaths in the US are suicide.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

Looks like Australians find other ways to kill themselves. More than half of gun deaths in the US are suicide.

Looks as though, suicide by kangaroo is as popular as it ever was.

 

[hugo]

WAYNESBURG, Ky. - Miss America 1944 has a talent that likely has never appeared on a beauty pageant stage: She fired a handgun to shoot out a vehicle's tires and stop an intruder.

Venus Ramey, 82, confronted a man on her farm in south-central Kentucky last week after she saw her dog run into a storage building where thieves had previously made off with old farm equipment.

Ramey said the man told her he would leave. "I said, 'Oh, no you won't,' and I shot their tires so they couldn't leave," Ramey said.

She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun.

"I didn't even think twice. I just went and did it," she said. "If they'd even dared come close to me, they'd be 6 feet under by now."

Ramey then flagged down a passing motorist, who called 911.

Curtis Parrish of Ohio was charged with misdemeanor trespassing, Deputy Dan Gilliam said. The man's hometown wasn't immediately available. Three other people were questioned but were not arrested.

After winning the pageant with her singing, dancing and comedic talents, Ramey sold war bonds and her picture was adorned on a B-17 that made missions over Germany in World War II, according to the Miss America Web site.

Ramey lived in Cincinnati for several years and was instrumental in helping rejuvenate Over-the-Rhine historic buildings. She returned to Kentucky in 1990 to live on her farm.

"I'm trying to live a quiet, peaceful life and stay out of trouble, and all it is, is one thing after another," she said.

 

[Led_Zep_Sx]

Windows, dumb****.

What floor were they on?

 

[jokersarewild]

What's the difference between Alaska and VA Tech?

Nothing, they're both -33.

 

[Jhony5]

What's the difference between Alaska and VA Tech?

Nothing, they're both -33.

ooooooooo.....dude, its too soon.

Or...look to Australia. We had plenty more guns out there 10 years ago, but decided to tighten gun laws. We got rid of thousands of weapons, and the number of gun deaths has dropped dramatically.

Why don't cha check how stabbings went up? About 200%.

Now imagine being stabbed by an intruder a few years after you were forced to surrender your gun to the government.

Thomas Jefferson once said "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. ...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man".--

 

[OmegaManiac]

suck my ****ing **** you bunch of sorry ass t.v.babyslave bitches!!!!!!
after seeing how people react to this **** I think I may just have to go on a killing spree, except my weapon of choice with be a combination of parking tickets, utility bills, anti-gun propaganda leaflets, and vhs copies of network t.v. shows. I will use these unlikely implements of death to slowly and methodically kill my patiently waiting victims with a series of vicious papercuts and vhs cassette bludgeoning. This will be a long proccess so I ask you all to make sure that any time you know you are going to be in a large social group, ie. class room, bank, girlscout jamboree, etc. make sure you go to the bathroom first and also try to bring a snack and maybe a crossword puzzle or book, death by papercuts and vhs tape takes a little longer than death by copper jacketed lead being quickly introduced to the brain so just wait patiently and your turn will come. thank you for being the sheep that you are.

 

[thekid65]

News just reported 170 rounds, in a period of 9 minutes that ****er fired off. 1 round every 3 seconds. Methinks there wasnt too much opportunity to intervene.

 

[RoyalOrleans]

News just reported 170 rounds, in a period of 9 minutes that ****er fired off. 1 round every 3 seconds. Methinks there wasnt too much opportunity to intervene.

Me thinks, he be a ***** and was never formally trained.

 

[Jhony5]

News just reported 170 rounds, in a period of 9 minutes that ****er fired off. 1 round every 3 seconds. Methinks there wasnt too much opportunity to intervene.

Bullshit!

Those guns fire at best 2 rounds per second, and he has to reload. 1 of the guns was a .22 cal. A good thick textbook would deflect that shoddy round. The sound of a .22 is distinct. If I heard that thing crackin, I would know there was a chance to close in on him. Considering his frail stature, he would've been an ez take down.

There was time to react. The big issue was everyone was running away from him, and no one was trying to take him out. He re-entered 3 rooms after shooting people in other rooms. What did he find when he came back? People cowering, hoping he was gone.

I know its easy to criticize, being that I wasn't there, but for christ sakes.

All humans have an inherent instinct for survival. However the instinct manifests itself in two categories.

Fighting.
Fleeing.

Picture yourself in a restaurant, and a gunman walks in and begins shooting. Does your instinct tell you to find a place to hide?
Or does it tell you to think and fight back?
Only the first victims had no choice. Its the others that have time to make a choice.

If I was there at VA tech, and I had survived his initial volley, I woulda been armed with something, crouching behind the door, just waiting. If nothing else, I'll take a pencil as my weapon. **** it, I'd rather die with a pathetic pencil in my hand, stabbing with my last breath, than die in a fetal position, pants full of **** and piss.

Choo Ching Chong (whatever the gooks name) was fortunate to find himself among a large gathering of people that instinctively flee. There was nowhere to flee, so the outcome was sealed.

I'm sure many of the victims had no chance whatsoever. But we all know there was opportunity abound. Shamefully, no one would seize it.

 

[jokersarewild]

ooooooooo.....dude, its too soon.

It's never to soon for a good joke.

 

[cybacaT]

Nah - not too soon. Jokes are jokes - let em fly...

In Australia we heard all the same arguments:

- you'll never get gun owners to turn in their guns.

- if guns are outlawed...only outlaws will have guns!

- it's just too hard, so just leave things as they are.

Here were the factors that made a difference though:

- Australians decided that the right to own guns and hunt wasn't as important as the gun death toll which we were unhappy with.

- Australia doesn't have a cashed-up gun lobby with it's hands wrapped around the throat of our govt.

- Australia's PM John Howard is a ballsy fellow who was prepared to lose the votes of many of his core supporters by implementing strict gun laws.


The result? We have 1/15th the ratio of gun deaths in Australia to that which you have in the US. A miniscule fraction. Apply that to the US, and you would have lost 2,000 people last year instead of 30,000. That's 28,000 American lives saved. Imagine you could put a stop to the Twin Towers disaster and save all those lives - many times over. Would you do that?


I have some questions for you about the Second Amendment:

- back when the amendment was written, and there WAS a militia who had the right to bear arms, did you think that the developers of the 2nd Amendment ever envisaged that the US would move to a time of peace, yet some Americans would still abuse their amendment by claiming it meant a right for every citizen to bear arms...not just the militia of the day?

- if the only defence for bearing arms is the 2nd amendment, and as you say it would be near impossible to go against the enshrined constitution...then how is that you manage to restrict so many citizens of their right to bear arms? Why can't kids buy guns? Why can't adults by fully automatic weapons? Why isn't every US citizen allowed to carry around weapons in public(bearing arms?)? Why are some arms allowed, and some arms restricted - if an American wants to bear and RPG - why can't they? Why can't Americans carry weapons on planes?

All of these rules and laws you have are impinging on your 2nd AMENDMENT! Surely this is an impossibility - since these many examples contradict your own constitution! I'm also listening for the screaming cries for those whose constitutional rights are being so grossly violated! It's the SECOND AMENDMENT!! Aren't you ashamed that there are 10 year old American Citizens who aren't allowed to tote an RPG onto a plane with them? I mean - it's the SECOND AMENDMENT!!


As for the source of the 30,000 deaths figure - you'll find that's been fairly constant for the past umpteen years in the US, perhaps slightly decreasing. Sources are from the body whose job it is to collect these statistics: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
http://www.cdc.gov/DataStatistics/

From 38,000+ in 1991:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00032378.htm

To 28,663 in 2000:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/02facts/final2000.htm

Have a dig around, and you'll find that 30,000 dead Americans figure is fairly constant.

 

[Jhony5]

Let me start by pointing out that the glaring difference between the banishment of guns here in the States, and the banishment of guns in Oz is obvious. We have way way way more guns on our streets. Way ****ing more.

This creates a vastly more challenging issue than what Oz had to undertake. I believe the Australian governments gun buyback program only distributed approximately $600,000 dollars buying guns back from citizens. We could rack up totals like that in one mid-size state. I believe that the stir for a gun ban began with a mass shooting in Australia. I can't remember the details, but it was quite severe.

The risk to our citizens would be far greater than what you experienced. The incalculable amount of illegal guns in America constitutes a considerable issue with disarming our law abiding citizens.

if guns are outlawed...only outlaws will have guns

This sounds so clich