What the Mega-Mosque at Ground Zero Means to Worldwide Islam

[wez]

I understand that this isn't most of Islam...

But it's enough, and a valid enough fear, and enough of a historical reality, that people are terrorized enough that they feel fearful of speaking their opinions openly without fear that they may be the next Theo VanGough, unlike any other religion in modern times.

Maybe this idiot/hypocrite should worry about his own country and their "monuments to terrorism" shoved in other peoples faces.. Ya think?

View attachment 2906

View attachment 2907

View attachment 2908

View attachment 2909

View attachment 2910

View attachment 2911

.

.

.

What is ok for you to do to another human being is ok for every other human being to do to you. ~ wez

 

[wez]

Wow.. God's warriors have some serious firepower lined up against the wall there.. Jesus would be proud..

Let's teach Muslims how to hold a real Koran study session on conversions to Islam...

What is ok for you to do to another human being is ok for every other human being to do to you. ~ wez

 

[phreakwars]

If they build this - I predict it will be blown up or set ablaze. Save your money.

By a Republican/Tea Bagger. And they won't consider it a terrorist act :whistling:

Boy, that premonition won't take long. Check this out:

Fire at Tenn. Mosque Building Site Ruled Arson

http://www.cbsnews.c...in6814690.shtml

Federal officials are investigating a fire that started overnight at the site of a new Islamic center in a Nashville suburb.

Ben Goodwin of the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department confirmed to CBS Affiliate WTVF that the fire, which burned construction equipment at the future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro, is being ruled as arson.

Special Agent Andy Anderson of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told CBS News that the fire destroyed one piece of construction equipment and damaged three others. Gas was poured over the equipment to start the fire, Anderson said.

The ATF, FBI and Rutherford County Sheriff's Office are conducting a joint investigation into the fire, Anderson said.

More at URL
.
.

 

[jokersarewild]

I was saying that being "for" Eminent Domain can go either way for you. Remember that.

Being as you completely missed how Eminent Domain was relivent to the discussion I don't think you need to now pretend like your some kind of all knowing professor. Of course I know it goes both way, but all laws are created in the concept of serving the public, and the vast majority of all Americans (they are the public they are supposed to serve) say they don't want the terrorist monument to be built on grond zero.

And no, see, Eminent Domain is completely irrelevant to the discussion. You keep bringing it up as if we have some sort of Eminent Domain Gun we use whenever somebody builds something we don't like. I can bring up hypotheticals too, but that doesn't mean anything.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/real_estate/eminent_domain.html#1

First of all: Anybody outside of New York has no say in this whatsoever. Their opinions are irrelevant, as they are not in the state and it doesn't affect them as such.

Second: Assuming this went to court (as is the process here, not just "point and shoot" as you seem to believe), there is a chance the Imam would win. I'm sure he could site religious persecution or whatever. Either way, there is a process they go through. And if the City o' New York lost, then they get the property without Eminent Domain intervention, and can build the Community Center. If not, oh well.

The "terrorist monument" (you do realize you look quite uneducated when you refer to it as that, right?) is NOT going to be built on Ground Zero. You keep spreading this propaganda as if it's fact. Guess what? NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, THE BUILDING SITE WON'T BE GROUND ZERO. EVER. The site got hit by a chunk of the plane? OH BOY, HALLOWED GROUND! Except not. My guess is that they're building there because it was much cheaper to purchase since the building was wrecked. And if it hadn't been hit, they wouldn't be building there because the place would still be intact. Possibly.

http://www.neurope.eu/articles/The-Ground-Zero-of-intolerance/102267.php

Fun fact: One of the protesters? Terrorist. Well, almost. She supports terrorists though. Specifically, the English Defense League. Who, you know, are violent in order to get their message across. Are they terrorists, Times? I mean, they aren't Muslim, and your definition is somewhat vague.

Also, amusing note: There are strip clubs and the like within the same proximity to Ground Zero. Seems kind of asinine to be against a community center, but have no problem with places condoning such actions.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/03/mayor_bloomberg_on_mosque

Michael Bloomberg renders the whole Eminent Domain thing almost moot by defending the mosque...

Also, "monument to terrorists"? Really? That's quite a description for a community center. I'm mildly impressed.

If I build a swimming pool next to a Catholic Church, does the church stop being a church?

This is a mosque, a fancy one to be true, but still a mosque.

There are around a hundred of them in the New York area and the mosque a couple blocks away from this site is at very low capacity so the area does not need a new mosque for the Muslims in that area to follow their faith.

So if they don't need the space to worship, what other reason are they building it?

In my opinion, based on how this guy is defending the actions of terrorists and refuses to say where the money is coming from I would believe the reason for building it is clear.

Your analogy made no sense. Also, it's a community center. Really, it is. It's not a mosque. It has a place of worship. My local community center has a place of worship inside. Do we call it a church? Is it considered a church? No. Because it's not. I know the logic of that will fly over your head and you'll probably tell me about pools being next to churches, but I thought I'd offer that up for you.

But hey, let's take your pool analogy. Let's say I have a house, and there's a pool in the back yard. Does that mean I only use the house for the swimming pool? Or the back yard for the swimming pool? It very well does not. By that same logic, having a spot you can pray in doesn't mean it's used exclusively for that.

If it were a Christian-based Community Center, would you need to know where the money was coming from? If Jerry Falwell (assuming he wasn't dead), that hate-mongering wee-wee, wanted to build it, would you care what he's said before(below)? Probably not. You wouldn't give a crap. And neither would anybody else. They would praise it.

God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson agreed, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

He seriously blames all of them for 9/11, saying that God let it happen because of the groups he mentions, and he would be praised for building a mega-church on that spot, much less a community center.

And as it turns out, terrorist acts tend to get attention. What are they going to do? Tell us to get out of their country and leave their stuff alone? How well will that work? Obviously they're so passionate about what they believe that they think the only way to get their message across is to kill people. If there's one thing that people respond to, it's death. I don't think it's right, but they obviously think it's worth it. So maybe we need to figure out a way to get people against their views, instead of killing them and making others believe they were killed for their views.

And the only peopel who will ever be able to change this is the Muslims themselves, just like it was Christians who got their bad elements to stop.

When did our bad elements stop?

Creating martyrs is a horrible way to fight someone.

Tell that to the Muslims who are doing it.

You misunderstand. We're CREATING their martyrs, which then fuels them on to keep trying to kill us. Pretty simple.

So, in order to not look like a dictatorship, we're going to stop construction on this building so we can appease some narrow-minded morons. Yeah. That's a good idea.

No, so they can appease almost all of Americans who are against allowing the terrorist monument to be built on ground zero.

The few who want it to be built are all progressives who believe America is bad in general or those who are being politically correct.

Yes, those of us who believe Americans should exercise our freedoms are assholes.

Mind you, again, those outside of New York really don't matter, opinion-wise. It's not their state.

And I'll be perfectly honest: 9/11 didn't really do squat for me. I woke up, saw what was happening, and went to school. It was explained to us. And you know what? I recognized it for what it was: A terrorist attack. But did it affect my life? Not particularly. It is in a state on the opposite side of the country. I knew nobody in those buildings. And I didn't even know those building existed until that day. So I went on with my life.

Also, I don't believe America is bad. I believe it could be better. And if it is the mosque you seem to think it is, then you must hate America if you believe for one moment that we should start stomping on people's rights. But hey, the guy who wants people to exercise what's given them in the First Amendment is obviously not very American. The one that wants to start taking away people's rights in a place called "The Land of the Free", that guy's a true American. God Bless You, man.

 

[hugo]

Our meddling led to 9/11 and our answer to 9/11 was to do more of the same crap that led to the events of 9/11.

You must hate America too... welcome to the He Man America Haters Club .. Right eddo?

Just trying to prevent a dirty bomb (or worse an active nuke) from going off in a major American city.

 

[phreakwars]

Our meddling led to 9/11 and our answer to 9/11 was to do more of the same crap that led to the events of 9/11.

You must hate America too... welcome to the He Man America Haters Club .. Right eddo?

Just trying to prevent a dirty bomb (or worse an active nuke) from going off in a major American city.

Hugo scores a 10 once again.

 

[phreakwars]

How dummies protect hallowed ground:

.
.

 

[timesjoke]

I really did not fully think you meant all that uneducated garbage until I saw this:

And I'll be perfectly honest: 9/11 didn't really do squat for me. I woke up, saw what was happening, and went to school. It was explained to us. And you know what? I recognized it for what it was: A terrorist attack. But did it affect my life? Not particularly. It is in a state on the opposite side of the country. I knew nobody in those buildings. And I didn't even know those building existed until that day. So I went on with my life.

So you felt nothing?

Not even pity for your fellow Americans and their families? You seem ready to show compasion and understanding to terrorists, you even claim lik eso many other radical Socialists that 9/11 was caused by America, you blame America instead of those who actually did the killing.




And in that you have great company, You, Obama, Harry Reid, Pelosi, pretty much every progressive in America sees America as "bad" or at fault for everything and you constantly want to only point out what you see as bad while never admitting the much larger good that America does in the world.



So American actions forced these terrorists to attack us Joker? Really?

At the time of the attack, America was providing around 70% of the food that was "given for free" to Afganistan, and we helped Afganistan fight off invasion from Russia, hundreds of millions of Afganistan people were alive and eating well because America did not look away, because America did get involved. How about those saved lives Joker?

But you don't know about that fact now do you Joker? Or is it better to say you don't "want" to know about that, all your interested in is looking to America's faults and justifying the actions of terrorists because that is the progressive way of tearing down America so it can be rebuilt in the Socialist way?




Well guess what, there are still a few proud Americans alive and willing to fight against the Progressives like you and Obama. We can admit we have made mistakes but still see the greater degree of good that America has done and how most of the free world is only free today because of America. All of Europe and most of Asia would now be divided in two groups if not for America, so forgive me and the majority of Americans who choose to remember our good deeds over our mistakes.



Now, aside from your religion/America bashing we still get back to the main points:

1- America was attacked on 9/11 by Muslim believers and only an idiot would believe they did not have help in the Muslim comunities to stay hidden and train for this attack. The radical elements of Islam are not that far seperated from the mainstream elements of Islam.

2- Even Muzzammil Hassan, the rich Muslim that founded Bridges TV to show Muslims in a "positive light" and was fully imersed in Western society still felt compelled to behead his wife ,Aasiya Z. Hassan, because she dared to leave him and "honor" demanded she die by his hand.

Prior to this event, Muzzammil Hassan was considered the very definition of moderate Muslim, funny how fast a moderate can transform into a radical.......

3- This is a Mosque, lots of other fancy stuff too, but this is a house of worship, the house has many rooms, but the number of rooms does not change it's purpose. Trying to divert attention away from this fact proves your not interested in looking at reality, and instead your trying to remake reality into an image that might be accepted by the masses.......typical progressive tactic but again, those of us who know better can easily see past your intentional refusal to admit the facts and identify your biased reasons to try and exclude the fact that this is a Mosque.

4- This is not just an issue for the people of New York. The billions of tax dollars spent to respond to 9/11 was money all Americans paid their tax money for. All the mess that followed to include the stock market crash that cost me over $160,000 in one week made that event a purely American event just like the attack on Pearl Harbor was not just a bad thing that happend at the "Gibraltar of the Pacific".

This is about Americans and how they feel about the failures of Muslims to gain control over their radical elements. If people like this imam would publically denounce all terroirsts to include Hamas that he says is not a terrorist group, and to stop making excuses for these terrorists in how he said they were only trying to be heard, then I could support this as some kind of community center and they were trying to bring people together.


5- You still miss the point of Eminent Domain, most likely because you have never been involved in any real reality issues as I have but if a couple guys in City Hall can take away a piece of land to give it to Donald Trump to build a huge Hotel, certainly it would be easy to offer a better use of that power to do as the people want. Almost all Americans are now against this Mosque being built on ground zero (again, you claiming it is not does not make it true, us Americans who actually care about America and feel connected to it can make that decision) so following that desire is easily defendable in a court of law.

I used the stripper example for a reason, there are thousands of case law examples all supporting the right of comunities to block buildings like strip clubs for community moral reasons, to include about 25 cases in New York that made it to the State supreme court so the City can easily block this and win, it would be a waste of money for the Muslim extremists to try and fight it to be honest.



Do Americans have the right to set the moral possitions of their Country or not? Do Americans have the right to reject a monument to the terrorists of 9/11? Do Americans have the right to reject radical and violent groups who hide behind laws that they don't themselves respect or share in their own circles?

Should Americans be forced to conform to the beliefs of progressives who see America as the instigator of 9/11? Should all Americans give up their right to their beliefs just because a few progressives think we are all just stupid and racists?



Sorry Joker, completely converting all Americans into sniveling progressive cowards is not going to be that easy.........

 

[wez]

Nuthin' to say eddo? .. typical.. close your eyes..

 

[wez]

Not even pity for your fellow Americans and their families? You seem ready to show compasion and understanding to terrorists, you even claim lik eso many other radical Socialists that 9/11 was caused by America, you blame America instead of those who actually did the killing.

Few people in this world besides yourself and other radical mentally ill individuals desire to be "pitied", TJ.

Jaw's a radical socialist? Why.. because he doesn't think like you and excuse every bad thing "America" has done because someone from this country gave someone some food at some point in time?

"America" is not a living, breathing human being TJ.. it is incapable of good/bad.. It is the accepted name for a chunk of land. All there is in this world are individual human beings and some of them are sick, twisted, narcissistic, hypocritical f ckers, like yourself. Whether they come from America, Saudi Arabia, or Timbuktu, they have no value or respect for human life and see others as objects to use and abuse as an end to their own f cked up agenda of greed, power, control, superiority and self importance.

"What.. don't be pissed "we" brainwashed our kids and sent them to terrorize you and your family, destroy your country/s, and steal your valuable resources. We gave you food first you ungrateful *******!"

You wanna excuse it all because the individual frauds doing it claim to be "Americans" or "Christians"?

Real Americans and Christians tell the truth and take personal responsibility for what their "leaders" do on their "behalf".. good and bad.

You got a problem with truth and personal responsibility, mother f cker?

Stupid question.. I already know you do...

Almost all Americans are now against this Mosque being built on ground zero (again, you claiming it is not does not make it true, us Americans who actually care about America and feel connected to it can make that decision) so following that desire is easily defendable in a court of law.

Yeah.. you care.. JAW doesn't.. you're slick.. you care so much that our Constitution that this country is founded on should be shredded some more? All to stroke your and other "caring Americans" ego in a pathetic attempt to validate your rightness by denying other Americans their constitutional rights?

Who's the radical socialist, hypocrite? Everyone gotta be like you, or else?

And who the f ck gave you the authority to speak on behalf of "almost all Americans"? I wouldn't let you order me a cheeseburger let alone represent me for anything concerning human justice and integrity.

 

[ImWithStupid]

JAW is an ignorant, doesn't know his head from his ass, live in his mother's basement, sheltered, self serving, gen Y, infant, who has yet to have real life, or real responsibility affect him.

No offense.

 

[timesjoke]

JAW is an ignorant, doesn't know his head from his ass, live in his mother's basement, sheltered, self serving, gen Y, infant, who has yet to have real life, or real responsibility affect him.

No offense.

I don't know enough about him to say all that but he does seem very disconnected from his Country and shows more compassion for those who want to inflame and attack America than those who actually love America and want her to prosper.


Wez I understand, he is only interesated in trying to start a fight, that is why I ignore his comments, he is not interested in debating or sharing ideas, he only wants strife and lives to call people ugly names and such, no point in wasting my time on that crud.


I don't think Joker is a bad guy, I think he is similar to Bender where both most likely work hard and provide for their own life but for some reason they both feel they need to help certain people gain enough power so they can "fix" the lives of everyone else using the heavy hand of the Federal Government to force us to live exactly the way they want us to live.


Progressives seem to believe 99% of Americans should not be allowed to live the way they want to live and that the other 1% (as long as it is them) should set the rules and micromanage that other 99%. They live in fear where failure must be limited but while they limit failure, they can't understand that they at the same time limit success. They see someone who is "rich" and conservative as underserving of what they have but someone who is "rich" and donating to their political campaigns deserve their money and get special treatments.


The really big problem is they truly believe they can tax their way into Eutopia. California is the best example of what happenes when progressives get their way, businesses like EA games and even ebay are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to relocate in places like Utah, they are being driven away by a out of control progressive leadership that does not see what they are doing as wrong. Tax, Tax, Tax, Tax, and Tax some more, never showing the least bit of concern for the fact that they are wasting money faster than it can be produced.


Remember the story of the Golden Goose............





But still this 'politically correct' thing with progressives surprises me, I have no idea why some things are too dangerious to speak against with these guys. Women's rights are normally a huge issue, but let a prominent and very politically connected Muslim perform a honor killing on his wife that wanted to leave him and suddenly not one progressive will speak against that Muslim practice.

A christian child says a prayer in school and they want that child expelled and the parents investigated but a school sets aside special classes and times for the many prayers of a muslim child and not one word from these same progressives.

G-damn America......right?

 

[phreakwars]

Murfreesboro Shows Its Support For Mosque

Bob Smietana • The Tennessean • August 30, 2010

Mark West believes in freedom of religion. That belief brought West out Monday night to a candlelight vigil in support of local Muslims in front of the Rutherford County Courthouse. It also inspired the lifelong Baptist to make a donation to the building fund for a new mosque in Murfreesboro. “I’m going down to Islamic Center of Nashville tomorrow and make a $100 donation,” West said Monday night. “One hundred bucks is hard to come by these days, but it’s a statement.”

West was among about 150 people to attend Monday’s night’s vigil, organized in response to the recent fire at the construction site for the new mosque. Many in the crowd held candles or signs proclaiming such messages as “We’re all in this together” and “My God is not a bigot.” They also joined in singing “We Shall Overcome.”

The gathering came two days after a fire of suspicious origin damaged construction equipment at the site of a planned mosque near Murfreesboro. Federal investigators are still looking into the cause of the fire. Organizers said the vigil was intended to encourage supporters and opponents of the mosque to demonstrate for a community free of violence, arson or other such activity.

On the outskirts a small but vocal group of mosque opponents made their presence known. Collier Hopson drove his pickup to the vigil. In the back was a plywood sign bearing the spray-painted words “No Mosque.”

http://www.tennessea...port+for+mosque

.
.
.

 

[wez]

I don't know enough about him to say all that but he does seem very disconnected from his Country and shows more compassion for those who want to inflame and attack America than those who actually love America and want her to prosper.

America has a vagina and properties of an individual human being? .. Yep.. we know how much respect you have for women.. Lucky you weren't from Iran.. every women unfortunate enough to cross your path surely woulda been stoned to death for disobedience...

I don't think Joker is a bad guy, I think he is similar to Bender where both most likely work hard and provide for their own life but for some reason they both feel they need to help certain people gain enough power so they can "fix" the lives of everyone else using the heavy hand of the Federal Government to force us to live exactly the way they want us to live.

F cking hypocrite..

 

[ImWithStupid]

JAW is an ignorant, doesn't know his head from his ass, live in his mother's basement, sheltered, self serving, gen Y, infant, who has yet to have real life, or real responsibility affect him.

No offense.

That was a bit harsh. I was just intending to poke a finger, to rile him up.

I have to apologize to you JAW, as I went too far in the above post.

I negative repped myself and everyone else should negative rep me, too.

 

[emkay64]

My link

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[hugo]

My link

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

The typical voter.

 

[emkay64]

I heart Hugo.

 

[Chi]

I negative repped myself and everyone else should negative rep me, too.

lol, that's funny. Bad IWS! smacks hand

 

[jokersarewild]

This post should be fun to respond to...

I really did not fully think you meant all that uneducated garbage until I saw this:

And I'll be perfectly honest: 9/11 didn't really do squat for me. I woke up, saw what was happening, and went to school. It was explained to us. And you know what? I recognized it for what it was: A terrorist attack. But did it affect my life? Not particularly. It is in a state on the opposite side of the country. I knew nobody in those buildings. And I didn't even know those building existed until that day. So I went on with my life.

So you felt nothing?

Not even pity for your fellow Americans and their families? You seem ready to show compasion and understanding to terrorists, you even claim lik eso many other radical Socialists that 9/11 was caused by America, you blame America instead of those who actually did the killing.

You're right, I felt no human emotions whatsoever. Interesting fact: I actually had more to that part of my post where I went on to talk about feeling emotions and such, but I shortened it to that because I'm just a dick like that. Or maybe it's because I was talking more about the "fear" part of it. They hadn't attacked me, or anybody I knew, so I had no reason to fear them. And because of that, I didn't immediately lump all Muslims into "terrorists". Also, I blame our foreign policy. We trained Bin Laden. Then when he got pissed off, that came back to bite us in the ass. Also, treating other countries like sh t tends to get people in them pissed off.

And in that you have great company, You, Obama, Harry Reid, Pelosi, pretty much every progressive in America sees America as "bad" or at fault for everything and you constantly want to only point out what you see as bad while never admitting the much larger good that America does in the world.

Your inability to judge an individual person without having to put them in a predefined group for you to then lash out against is astounding. "That Tom guy is an butt hole. You know how else are assholes? The KKK. I bet he's one of them." Guess what, Times? I'm not a "progressive". I'm just an intelligent human being who loves my country, but is intelligent enough to realize when we do something wrong.

You love America the same way a 4 year old loves his mom. Nobody can speak negatively of her, or else they're bad, and evil. Mommy is the best!

I love America the same way an adult loves their parents. I realize that they have flaws, but I accept that and love them anyway.

So American actions forced these terrorists to attack us Joker? Really?

Are you saying we gave them no motive whatsoever?

At the time of the attack, America was providing around 70% of the food that was "given for free" to Afganistan, and we helped Afganistan fight off invasion from Russia, hundreds of millions of Afganistan people were alive and eating well because America did not look away, because America did get involved. How about those saved lives Joker?

I have a question for you, Times. Did Afghanistan declare war on us? Seriously? Do you believe this? If so, you need you some more book lernin'. As it turns out, Afghanistan didn't attack us. Terrorists did. If a group of Russian terrorists attacks us, does that mean that Russia declared war on us? No, it doesn't. It means a group of morons decided we would be a good target.

But you don't know about that fact now do you Joker? Or is it better to say you don't "want" to know about that, all your interested in is looking to America's faults and justifying the actions of terrorists because that is the progressive way of tearing down America so it can be rebuilt in the Socialist way?

Times, meet Strawman. He'll be your argument for the rest of your life.

So trying to identify faults to fix them is bad? What universe are you from? What sort of crazy world do you live in where you always pretend everything's OK? I want a plane ticket to there. I'll give you the money up front.

Also, when did I justify terrorist actions? When I said they had a reason for attacking us? Because stating that we might've done something to piss them off sure makes me seem like I said "Well, they were perfectly within their right to take the lives of several thousand people." Hell, the two are almost the same sentence. Wow, I'm a horrible person. Let me go kill myself with the sharp point of LOGIC.

Well guess what, there are still a few proud Americans alive and willing to fight against the Progressives like you and Obama. We can admit we have made mistakes but still see the greater degree of good that America has done and how most of the free world is only free today because of America. All of Europe and most of Asia would now be divided in two groups if not for America, so forgive me and the majority of Americans who choose to remember our good deeds over our mistakes.

So you now admit that America has problems? YOU PROGRESSIVE! gasp

So, the division thing...are you talking about WWII and how us entering at the last second helped? I won't deny that. But saying the free world is "only free today because of us" makes it sound like they would've gladly goatse'd themselves for the Germans if only we hadn't come along and done all of the fighting for them. Not quite the case.

Now, aside from your religion/America bashing we still get back to the main points:

Religion bashing? What?

America bashing? You already admitted we have faults, hypocrite. Don't go back on that now.

1- America was attacked on 9/11 by Muslim believers and only an idiot would believe they did not have help in the Muslim comunities to stay hidden and train for this attack. The radical elements of Islam are not that far seperated from the mainstream elements of Islam.

I'm sure there were Islamic communities helping them. And I'm sure those communities were being told that America would try to attack them or kill them or destroy Islam if they didn't help. Or they were coerced in other ways. And as it turns out, if the part about radical and mainstream Islam being quite close, why aren't the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world strapping bombs to themselves or flying planes into buildings? Or doing a whole lot of terrorizing for that matter?

2- Even Muzzammil Hassan, the rich Muslim that founded Bridges TV to show Muslims in a "positive light" and was fully imersed in Western society still felt compelled to behead his wife ,Aasiya Z. Hassan, because she dared to leave him and "honor" demanded she die by his hand.

I'll not defend his actions. If you did research though, you'd discover that's not Islamic law. That was just him going nuts.

Prior to this event, Muzzammil Hassan was considered the very definition of moderate Muslim, funny how fast a moderate can transform into a radical.......

No, he went nuts. He didn't go religious.

3- This is a Mosque, lots of other fancy stuff too, but this is a house of worship, the house has many rooms, but the number of rooms does not change it's purpose. Trying to divert attention away from this fact proves your not interested in looking at reality, and instead your trying to remake reality into an image that might be accepted by the masses.......typical progressive tactic but again, those of us who know better can easily see past your intentional refusal to admit the facts and identify your biased reasons to try and exclude the fact that this is a Mosque.

My biased reasons? What would those reasons be? My guess is that you'll put more words in my mouth about how I'm a progressive, a Socialist, and hate America. Let me guess, I called it, didn't I?

Also, how am I trying to remake an image of anything? I'm telling you it's a community center (which, you know, it is. It just has a house of worship in it). You keep saying "NO, IT'S A MOSQUE!" A mosque with athletic facilities? So they can shoot hoops toward Mecca during prayer? Not likely.

4- This is not just an issue for the people of New York. The billions of tax dollars spent to respond to 9/11 was money all Americans paid their tax money for. All the mess that followed to include the stock market crash that cost me over $160,000 in one week made that event a purely American event just like the attack on Pearl Harbor was not just a bad thing that happend at the "Gibraltar of the Pacific".

9/11 is an American issue. What you're saying is that these people can't build a building here. Which, you know, since you don't live in New York, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS IN. I'm sorry 9/11 damaged you financially. And yes, tax dollars go toward such things. Quite frankly, I'm pissed off that my tax dollars went to our "War in Iraq", who had nothing to do with this.

Anyway, get this: 19 of the 1,600,000,000 people who are Muslim perpetrated 9/11. And you're seriously saying all of those 1,600,000,000 people are evil? Because of the actions of less than 20 of them? Does the illogical viewpoint there completely escape you?

The Onion did an article on you, Times: http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/

This is about Americans and how they feel about the failures of Muslims to gain control over their radical elements. If people like this imam would publically denounce all terroirsts to include Hamas that he says is not a terrorist group, and to stop making excuses for these terrorists in how he said they were only trying to be heard, then I could support this as some kind of community center and they were trying to bring people together.

Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit bullshit. You would NEVER support this as a community center. Trying to offer that up was cute, but your arguments have all been about how it's a mosque and how it supports terrorists (somehow). Just because the Imam has a wider view of the world than you do doesn't mean he's a bad person.

Your "quote" about 'Hamas that he says is not a terrorist group':

"I'm not a politician," replied Rauf. "I try to avoid the issues. The issue of terrorism is a very complex question. ... I'm a bridge builder. I define my work as a bridge builder. I do not want to be placed, nor do I accept to be placed in a position of being put in a position where I am the target of one side or another."

Klein pointed out Hamas attacks have targeted civilians and asked Rauf again whether that qualifies to define Hamas as terrorists.

Rauf stated: "The targeting of civilians is wrong. It is a sin in our religion. Whoever does it, targeting civilians is wrong. I am a supporter of the state of Israel. ... I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary."

Hm. Never said they weren't terrorists. He didn't want to call them terrorists. Which, since he travels to the area every once in awhile, not making enemies of a group who attacks civilians would be a good idea, right?

5- You still miss the point of Eminent Domain, most likely because you have never been involved in any real reality issues as I have but if a couple guys in City Hall can take away a piece of land to give it to Donald Trump to build a huge Hotel, certainly it would be easy to offer a better use of that power to do as the people want. Almost all Americans are now against this Mosque being built on ground zero (again, you claiming it is not does not make it true, us Americans who actually care about America and feel connected to it can make that decision) so following that desire is easily defendable in a court of law.

Actually, if you had said "13 story community center with a Muslim prayer area", I sincerely doubt people would be in such an uproar. But because you can misrepresent things to people through the media, hey, most people think it's a mosque. You know, when it isn't. It's still not on Ground Zero, by the way. Just thought I'd mention that. Since you keep saying it, even though it's not true.

Also, I think you meant "realty", not "reality". I'm not trying to correct you, I'm making the assumption that you meant I'd never had property deals in my life (true), not that I'd never had any situations at all in my life. Assuming that, you'd be right. However, again, Mayor Bloomberg wants the community center there. So I doubt anybody in City Hall will really be like "HEY LET'S GET OUR EMINENT DOMAIN GUN OUT AND START SHOOTING AT IT!"

I used the stripper example for a reason, there are thousands of case law examples all supporting the right of comunities to block buildings like strip clubs for community moral reasons, to include about 25 cases in New York that made it to the State supreme court so the City can easily block this and win, it would be a waste of money for the Muslim extremists to try and fight it to be honest.

So, (even if this was a mosque), it's immoral to have a place of worship here? You're comparing a Muslim house of worship to a strip club? Really? Go to any Christian church. Tell them that they're just as immoral as a strip club. See where that gets you.

Oh, and hey, what about the Muslim non-extremists? Like, you know, the Imam? I bet he could fight it and win.

Do Americans have the right to set the moral possitions of their Country or not? Do Americans have the right to reject a monument to the terrorists of 9/11? Do Americans have the right to reject radical and violent groups who hide behind laws that they don't themselves respect or share in their own circles?

You keep acting like this is some statue depicting Mohammed pissing on our flag while shitting on the Twin Towers. It really isn't.

Also, not all Muslims are violent. Not sure HOW MANY TIMES I have to tell you this. The Onion article sums you up so beautifully it almost brings me to tears.

Should Americans be forced to conform to the beliefs of progressives who see America as the instigator of 9/11? Should all Americans give up their right to their beliefs just because a few progressives think we are all just stupid and racists?

Yes, I know I woke up and thought "People who aren't me are stupid. And racist." Seriously, this "putting words in my mouth" thing is getting ridiculous. And hey, guess what, some Americans agree with me. Others don't. They're beliefs for a reason. I never said anybody has to conform to mine. I just want you to use some facts as a basis of your argument instead of beliefs.

Sorry Joker, completely converting all Americans into sniveling progressive cowards is not going to be that easy.........

So one moment "we're" launching an offensive on American minds and such, then we're sniveling cowards? Now I'm confused. I can't tell if I'm an evil presence who is actively doing something, or crying in a corner. I'd recommend you determine this for me, as you've been quite content putting words in my mouth this whole time.

And yes, I'm trying to get you to look at facts and actually do research. How horrible of me.