Why I am not a Conservative

RoyalOrleans

New member
A recent Gallup polls shows that 40% of Americans describe themselves as conservative. Only 21% of Americans call themselves liberal and 35% consider themselves moderate.

Clearly all of these conservatives don't consider themselves to be Republicans. Many of them are round in the ranks of or in sympathy with the Libertarians. A lot of them even vote Democrat. Conservative doesn't always equate to Republican. There are a lot of conservatives, for instance, who do not feel that it is the government's role to control a woman's reproductive life. Many of them won't vote Republican until the party starts to concentrate more on governance than it does on people's personal lives.

Fact is, the Republican party is out of fresh and new ideas, and it is ignoring the good old ones. Where are the Republicans who are standing up with anything more than a whimper for free enterprise?

OK .. you know where I'm going. I'm completely convinced that if the Republican party would put its full support behind the FairTax, and pledge to pass it as soon as they have control of the House and the Senate, it would turn next year's midterm election on its ear. The FairTax would become the issue. Sure, the Democrats would demagogue it, but as more and more Americans learned the truth their demagoguery would serve to hurt their cause, not help it. The formula here is so simple. Would you rather pay the government 33% of everything you earn, or 23% of everything you spend. What do you think of the idea of nobody paying any taxes at all to the federal government until they have provided for the basic necessities for their family? Now think about that one. Should the government have a claim on one single penny of the money you earn --- or, to state it differently --- should the government have any claim on one single minute of your life before you've taken care of your own family's basic needs? Unless I miss my guess, most Americans would answer "no" to those questions. Can't you see the Republicans running on a campaign of "Not one penny for the government until your family is taken care of." Well, that's the FairTax.

Why won't the Republicans get behind this? The FairTax is the most thoroughly studied and researched piece of legislation ever to have been placed before the Congress of the United States. Still, the Republicans don't believe that they can stand up to Democrat demagoguery. They have no confidence in the voters. They think that the voters will respond to simplistic and sophomoric ideas like calling the Democrat Party the "Socialist Democrat Party." Yeah ... that's showing 'em. But when it comes to supporting and promoting legislation that would bring about the largest transfer of power from the government to the people in our history .... The Republicans shy away.

There are trillions of dollars ... perhaps as much as $13 trillion ... in American dollar-denominated deposits working in overseas economies. Those dollars belong to Americans and American corporations. Stimulus? You want stimulus? What if that money came flowing back home to work in our economy? Can you imagine the stimulus to our economy that would result from just one-half of this money coming back home? This money would be spent by the people who earned it and own it, not by the government. The spending decisions would be privately made, not made in Washington's dark chambers. Obama's idea? Pass laws that tax these overseas earnings right here at home. Construct an economic Berlin Wall. If you see a dollar trying to escape our tax system, shoot it down without remorse. The FairTax plan? The FairTax play that could be the Republican plan? Tell the people who hold this wealth to bring it home with absolutely no federal tax consequences whatsoever. No taxes, no interest on taxes, no penalties .. nothing. Bring it home and put it to work in America and for Americans. But ... have you heard one single Republican present these different approaches to the American people?

How can the Democrats frighten the Republicans so much on this plan? The Democrats would argue for withholding money from your paycheck before you even see it. The Republicans could argue for presenting you with 100% of your paycheck every payday. The Democrats could argue for taxing everything that moves. The Republicans could argue for businesses operating in the US with no tax component on capital or labor. The Republicans aren't willing to take on this argument?

How sad it must be to have the hearts and minds of the plurality of the American people, but be unable to translate that into actual support. How on Earth do we have Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid running the show? Again, I said there were two reasons. The first being that the Republican Party has nothing going for itself: wolves in sheep's clothing ready to socialize and control the economy as much as the Progressive Democrats! The second is because the American people have been conned ... at least in the presidential election ... into voting for a man who promised them "hope" and "change."

Elections have consequences. Are you starting to figure that out yet?

 

timesjoke

Active Members
The problem is, the mass majority of those who vote Liberal do not pay any or much tax anyway, so why would they care? They are only voting for people like Obama because they are promising to take from the "rich" to give it to them.

The small number of strict liberals/socialists like Bender do it out of some kind of feelings of guilt. They have success but they feel as though they have not really earned that success so they gladly embrace out of control taxes as a kind of penance for what they see as their own sin/evil that they need to make up for.

 

RoyalOrleans

New member
The problem is, the mass majority of those who vote Liberal do not pay any or much tax anyway, so why would they care? They are only voting for people like Obama because they are promising to take from the "rich" to give it to them.

The small number of strict liberals/socialists like Bender do it out of some kind of feelings of guilt. They have success but they feel as though they have not really earned that success so they gladly embrace out of control taxes as a kind of penance for what they see as their own sin/evil that they need to make up for.
Do you just talk to hear yourself speak?

Do you post just to see your little name appear in a post?

Jesus Fukken Christ.

Do you actually believe anything you say?

---

Now you take away the weight of what I posted with a bunch of bullsh!t? I thought we were having an intelligent discussio here?

You are a sh!theel. You are a fukken drama-laden ****-buzzard. Get the fukk out of this thread and stop kibitzing everyone's fukking points with your douchebaggery!

There I feel better.

******.

 

ImWithStupid

New member
The Fair Tax would never work.

It would end up like any other sales tax and this would be exempt or that would be exempt, it would hurt the poor too much to tax this product or that product, and would just end up being another political and bureaucratical nightmare as the current tax code.

The only simple and "fair" answer would be a flat tax.

You listen to Neil Boortz too much. :D

 

RoyalOrleans

New member
The Fair Tax would never work.
It would end up like any other sales tax and this would be exempt or that would be exempt, it would hurt the poor too much to tax this product or that product, and would just end up being another political and bureaucratical nightmare as the current tax code.

The only simple and "fair" answer would be a flat tax.

You listen to Neil Boortz too much. :D
Yeah... maybe I do.

The FairTax is just an example of how things need to radically change. Maybe it will devolve into a beast similar to our current tax code, maybe it won't as long as honest legislators are at the helm?

Who knows?

The point is, as much as I like the FairTax (and I don't give a **** about the poor or their children or their children's children) and the Flat Tax (which is probably a better proposal), something needs to happen.

 

timesjoke

Active Members
I hope your little tirade did make you feel better but it changes nothing.

Your just like the average liberal/socialist who gets mad at the person instead of addressing the information posted because you know you can't refute the validity of the information.

I like you a lot RO, but my point is valid. The majority of voters do not pay any or much tax, so why would they care about the FairTax? They get money/services that far outpace the money they pay in so to them the existing system is great.

I love the FairTax, it is a great idea to save massive amounts of money for the Government not maintaining the IRS and it will make life a lot simpler for all who pay tax. You will take drug dealers and illegal aliens who do not pay into the system now and suddenly they are supporting the system when they spend money. Awsome idea.........but those same people who will suddenly be forced to pay tax will not like the idea.

Right now I pay a huge amount of tax on my income before my child support is taken out, the EX gets 100% tax free income from me. If we wnt to the FairTax, suddenly she would be paying tax on that money.....again I love the idea, don't get me wrong I fully support the FairTax.

But...............

I am only pointing out the fact that very few people who vote Liberal/socialist pay taxes so why would they care? How do you get them to buy onto the idea RO?

 

phreakwars

New member
The problem is, the mass majority of those who vote Liberal do not pay any or much tax anyway, so why would they care? They are only voting for people like Obama because they are promising to take from the "rich" to give it to them.
The majority who vote DEMOCRAT are the working class blue collars you idiot, always has been. And we pay more payroll taxes now then ever, while corporate taxes are lower.
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The small number of strict liberals/socialists like Bender do it out of some kind of feelings of guilt. They have success but they feel as though they have not really earned that success so they gladly embrace out of control taxes as a kind of penance for what they see as their own sin/evil that they need to make up for.
No, we embrace taxing the shiit out of the rich, because they were made rich off the backs of the blue collar workers, and they owe us. Power to the people mutherfukker, power to the people. You on the otherhand, side with the corporations, just like the lobbyist wanted you to. Your all for making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Which makes you and your party... LOSERS, as shown by the last election... Chump..

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RoyalOrleans

New member
I hope your little tirade did make you feel better but it changes nothing.
Ehhh... a little.

Your just like the average liberal/socialist who gets mad at the person instead of addressing the information posted because you know you can't refute the validity of the information.
It's hard to refute bullsh!t.

The voters will vote how YouTube, ET, ABC, NBC, Fox, Hannity, Chris Matthews, etc etc tells them to vote.

I like you a lot RO, but my point is valid. The majority of voters do not pay any or much tax, so why would they care about the FairTax? They get money/services that far outpace the money they pay in so to them the existing system is great.
Do you want to suck my ****?

I love the FairTax, it is a great idea to save massive amounts of money for the Government not maintaining the IRS and it will make life a lot simpler for all who pay tax. You will take drug dealers and illegal aliens who do not pay into the system now and suddenly they are supporting the system when they spend money. Awsome idea.........but those same people who will suddenly be forced to pay tax will not like the idea.
Change ain't looking to make friends, TJ. Change calls the tune for which we all must dance.

Something has to happen. Soon.

Right now I pay a huge amount of tax on my income before my child support is taken out, the EX gets 100% tax free income from me. If we wnt to the FairTax, suddenly she would be paying tax on that money.....again I love the idea, don't get me wrong I fully support the FairTax.
Stop having children, don't get a divorce...

But...............
I am only pointing out the fact that very few people who vote Liberal/socialist pay taxes so why would they care? How do you get them to buy onto the idea RO?
They would care with the same PR group that helped get Obama elected to office.

I prefer to allow minds wrap themselves around an idea without forcing it upon them, however your average voter has to be coddled.

 

timesjoke

Active Members
The majority who vote DEMOCRAT are the working class blue collars you idiot, always has been. And we pay more payroll taxes now then ever, while corporate taxes are lower.
Wrong as usual.

The ONLY blue collars who vote Democrat are union and government employees (both state and federal), that is a small segment of the total voting numbers.

No Government workers actually contribute to the tax base because their pay is from tax money so they do not pay any taxes in reality.

The only group that both pay a lot of taxes and consistently blindly vote for Libarlas/socialists is Union workers.....and they are rewarded well with Government contracts and sweet deals like the UAW deal with the Government buyout.

No, we embrace taxing the shiit out of the rich, because they were made rich off the backs of the blue collar workers, and they owe us. Power to the people mutherfukker, power to the people. You on the otherhand, side with the corporations, just like the lobbyist wanted you to. Your all for making the rich richer and the poor poorer. Which makes you and your party... LOSERS, as shown by the last election... Chump.
So tell me something, how many people do the poor people employ?

Every dollar you have is because rich people put out the investments to build stores and run companies who emply people.

The Rich made money because they "Invested" their money to make it grow. If you punnish the rich too much, they will stop taking chances and simply sit on their money and as long as their money is sitting still, you can't touch it.

Your system is set up to punnish the rich for putting their money to work creating jobs, but you reward them for cutting jobs.

Ehhh... a little.
Good to know, now let's try to discuss things like adults.....

It's hard to refute bullsh!t.

The voters will vote how YouTube, ET, ABC, NBC, Fox, Hannity, Chris Matthews, etc etc tells them to vote.
People are stupid sure, but not robots to that degree, I watch Fox sometimes but I vote based on my beliefs, not how a television show tells me to vote.

It is not bull to say the truth RO. The average voter is only looking out for what they can get out of something so being as the poor outnumber the middle class and rich, they are now using mob rule, but they are not smart enough to see past the promises of more welfare people like Obama make.

Do you want to suck my ****?
No, I get headaches trying to see tiny objects, I shoud get glasses but I am too vain for glasses so I will have to pass.

Change ain't looking to make friends, TJ. Change calls the tune for which we all must dance.

Something has to happen. Soon.
I never dissagreed with you my friend, I say again, I fully support the FairTax, but your logical point does not get past the greed of those who want the Liberals/Socialists to give them more "free" stuff.

Stop having children, don't get a divorce...
Not sure of your point, I simply showed you one of the negatives from the FlatTax that many people complain about. Women getting support will end up with a lot less money because right now tax comes out for the man prior to payment, once the woman have to pay taxes on it you bet there will be screaming and a massive flood of support change orders hitting the courts.

Again, just trying to talk from a reality standpoint.

They would care with the same PR group that helped get Obama elected to office.

I prefer to allow minds wrap themselves around an idea without forcing it upon them, however your average voter has to be coddled.
But again Obama ran on two ideas. He was not Bush, and he was going to give the poor "free" stuff. Once you tell people they will "all" have to pay taxes, they will not like that even a little bit.

 

hugo

New member
Lysander Spooner:

What, then, is legislation? It is an assumption by one man, or body of men, of absolute, irresponsible dominion over all other men whom they call subject to their power. It is the assumption by one man, or body of men, of a right to subject all other men to their will and their service. It is the assumption by one man, or body of men, of a right to abolish outright all the natural rights, all the natural liberty of all other men; to make all other men their slaves; to arbitrarily dictate to all other men what they may, and may not, do; what they may, and may not, have; what they may, and may not, be. It is, in short, the assumption of a right to banish the principle of human rights, the principle of justice itself, from off the earth, and set up their own personal will, pleasure, and interest in its place. All this, and nothing less, is involved in the very idea that there can be any such thing as human legislation that is obligatory upon those upon whom it is imposed.
Barry Goldwater, from his 1964 speech accepting the Republican Party's nomination.

The good Lord raised this mighty Republic to be a home for the brave and to flourish as the land of the free-not to stagnate in the swampland of collectivism, not to cringe before the bully of communism.
Now, my fellow Americans, the tide has been running against freedom. Our people have followed false prophets. We must, and we shall, return to proven ways-- not because they are old, but because they are true. We must, and we shall, set the tide running again in the cause of freedom. And this party, with its every action, every word, every breath, and every heartbeat, has but a single resolve, and that is freedom - freedom made orderly for this nation by our constitutional government; freedom under a government limited by laws of nature and of nature's ***; freedom - balanced so that liberty lacking order will not become the slavery of the prison cell; balanced so that liberty lacking order will not become the license of the mob and of the jungle.

Now, we Americans understand freedom. We have earned it, we have lived for it, and we have died for it. This Nation and its people are freedom's model in a searching world. We can be freedom's missionaries in a doubting world. But, ladies and gentlemen, first we must renew freedom's mission in our own hearts and in our own homes.
I fear most Americans no longer understand freedom.

Ron Paul:

Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism.
Deficits mean future tax increases, pure and simple. Deficit spending should be viewed as a tax on future generations, and politicians who create deficits should be exposed as tax hikers.
 
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