timesjoke

Give me a hard example of me living my life completely different than what I preach, if you can. I asked this today right after your post, so yes I did ask for an example, I guess this is another example of you guys seeing what you want to see.....not what I write. But that is the problem, let me give you an example, today I pointed out to RO that he was accusing me of beating a dead horse but I was not the only guy responding on the topic. Even snaff was making similar points and yet I am the only person called unreasonable. Most of you have made up your minds that I can never say anything good so you fill in the blanks with what you want me to be saying instead of what I actually say. I cannot defend against things I have never done, these things you think I have done are in your own mind. Here is a prime example: Please post a quote from me calling Emkay a liar. Please post me saying Ali wallows in being alone. You take a small thing I do say, wrap it in things I never said then act pissed off that I said it.......well again I cannot defend myself from things "YOU" say, I can only respond to things I do say. Let's take your "wallows" claim: I said I know Ali is alone in connection to the farting carol comment. I never once used any words like wallowing, that comes from you, not me. If Ali is happy being alone then that is up to her I have no dog in that fight so why would I care one way or another? I didn't say it, but that does not stop you from brainwashing yourself into believing I did.

I rest my case, every time I try to pin you guys down for a specific example you dodge the question and start in with general claims of me being a bad person.......your desperately reaching.....and failing miserably. I could not possibly care less about how many people share a wrong assumption about me, I live for me and my loved ones, not to kiss azz or worry about the brittle feelings of spoiled brat style posters. If you can offer a specific example of me being a hypocrite then do so, if not then just let go of the personal flames, your acting the way you claim I act.

They say it but every time I have pinned any of you down to give a hard example you flounder. Give me a hard example of me living my life completely different than what I preach, if you can.

I have never been a hypocrite ever in my life, I live the life I preach. Tact, let me ask you a question, does tact change reality? Will people get the medical care they need if I sugar coat the reality of socialized health care? When I debate here and other places I assume I am talking to adults, I have never debated a topic with the idea I wanted to hurt someone's feelings. I try to debate the facts of an issue, anything else is wasted time as far as I am concerned.

Short, simple, true, wonderful post Salt. I agree completely. I can see where we need some big changes in the insurance industry, but we can accomplish that without erasing such a massive amount of private sector jobs.

Isn't that the real problem Salt? All these guys are lawyers writing nonesense legislation that can be twisted to say anything they want it to say once they get it passed. They make it deliberately loose so the buracracy they control (almost all Government employees are radical Liberals) will make it what they want it to be. Who do you think will be ensuring the private insurance companies do what their told? They will use their power of oversight to harass the private insurance companies away from the table.

Obama today held another strictly controlled townhall meeting where only prescreened people were allowed to attend. Most of the questions were set up in advance and Obama had pat, no detail answers ready for them. He avoided anything close to specifics and again stuck to his tired early promises that have been proven completely false by anyone who actually pays attention. There is no savings in this bill. There is no protections for insurance companies. The cost for this bill is huge, and as every other estimate the Obama administration has put out, most likely very, very wrong. Using past experience with Obama, this will cost 4 times as much as he is claiming. The only thing this bill does is end more private secotor jobs and increase the power of the Government over our every day lives. Once they own our healthcare options (make no mistake, the guy paying is controlling), they will own the people. This is a gateway bill, similar to a gateway drug where they get their foot in the door but intentionally include massive mistakes to force the Government to "fix" the "minor errors" and inch things closer and closer to the single payer system Obama has said from day one he wants.

Sen. Specter Says He'll Pitch 'Fascinating' Option of Health Care Referendum - Political News - FOXNews.com I like this idea, on something that will so severely increase taxes and the size/control of the Federal Government we should all vote on it, it is way to huge an issue to let a few people in Congress force it on us. Long after this set of elected officials are dead and buried, a National healthcare plan will forever be a part of America. If the people really want to make such a socialist turn, let them check the boxes to be sure.

Sure you are, your just better at playing the +1 troll game better than me, well actually I am not interested in your kind of trolling, so have fun with it....lol

Correct me if I am wrong but was this not University property? Not his property, he was just allowed to stay there as a perk but it is not like he was paying anything to live there, not even taxes. At any rate IWS hit the best point, just because your in your own home, there are many times your still not allowed to take things too far, this is where hugo cannot tell the difference between reasonable and unreasonable actions where they pertain to Gates. That is also why he is running away from his own Spencer quote in his signature. If you live your life making excuses for your own bad bahaviors, you will never be a responsible human being. hugo, this was not about Gates speaking out against the government, it was not about the Holocaust, it was not about anything noble or pure, it was 100% Gates being an out of control racist. If your reaching so desperately for excuses, obviously your wrong. I think you need to go read that Spencer quote a few more times and stop trying to defend stupidity wrapped in racist beliefs, just because Gates is black, that does not mean he should be allowed to behave any way he wants.

Exactly, everything Obama says is a lie, they will gin up some false numbers to pretend they are paying for this when in reality it will not be funded, not even by half.

Nope, you dodged the point, hidden well, I give you that, your not like Bender who completely dodges but you still veered away from the point. And you don't get respect from an officer unless you also give it as well, my point is respect must travel in both directions. That was the real issue with the Gates mess, Gates still today does not respect anyone who is white, especially an officer. And if they kept ranting and raving, refused to be calm and still calling you names then what RO? Call the police? At some point there is a change, that change is caused by the irresponsible person, so why not let them reap what they sew?

I read the bill and posted the actual words. Your trying to offer backflip definitions to what is written. Nothing you say is in the bill. Obama has been telling lies about his program from day one, that is why he refuses to give specific answers to questions, all he will do is talk in vague terms. Don't forget the 4 completely different versions in the senate, nobody knows right now what this will look like, but we do know that Obama wants to one day eliminate all private insurance, he has said it many times and even you have admitted that is the goal.

You have been making a lot of +1 troll posts lately RO.

No thanks, I will pass on your offer. Your the pompas behind trying to point me out when other people are also talking, you just can't stand up to what I am saying so you turn to insults, grow up. You and hugo can mask your hatred of the police in whatever crap you like but my possition is one of responsibility. In ever debate I have ever gotten into even the abortion ones I have been a consistent supporter of individual responsibility. Too often people like you two hide your desire to escape taking responsibility for your own actions behind claims of other people opressing you, like your so important to the world they have to conspire against you or something. I hold Gates responsible for his own actions, even the Spencer quote hugo has in his sig is about holding people accountable for their own folly. In my opinion it is the declining responsibility that is degrading our moral structure. Even our politicians are ignoring their responsibility to instead follow their elitist agendas. Where does it stop RO?

That is not what is written in the bill Bender. Your so fast to tell everyone else to read the bill and offer exact words out of the bill and the bill does not say what your saying. It clearly says "individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage". If they are offering it, obviously they do not already have it, read further "if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day". The effective date of coverage????? Do you see that? Effective date.....that means it is not already in force at the time of this bill, that is the definition. Take your own advise, read the bill and stop being a blind follower of your messiah Obama.

snaff, hugo, even IWS are all still commenting but I am the only guy you say is beating a dead horse? At leat we are on topic while all of your comments are not.

All existing insurance is considered grandfathered Bender. Read the bill with less Obama worship and you will see the truth instead of your trying to twist new meaning into what is there. So, based on the fact that "all" existing insurance coverage is considered "grandfathered" by the bill, the statement clearly says you cannot get new coverage. Let me stupid this down a little so even you can understand it......... It is not grandafathered if you don't already have it, the house bill force private insurance companies to completely change their offerings so they cannot compete against the Government insurance plan. Every expert who is respected in the field and not just an Obama operative has said about 150 million people will be forced into the Government plan inside about 5 years. That does not leave much for private enterprise. But as I said before, you even admitted before private insurance companies would be eliminated and you even added in the screw them line, too late now to pretend they will survive.

lol, what the heck are you talking about? I posted the relivant line off the page, do you refute that it says you cannot get new insurance converage after this bill goes into effect? How about addressing the point?

Troll much?

I will repost just my edit being as you missed it: In your sig: The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. What do you suppose Spencer is trying to say? Definition of folly: the trait of acting stupidly or rashly stupidity: a stupid mistake the quality of being rash and foolish foolish or senseless behavior So in this discussion we have Gates' folly, you advocate here that we should shield Gates from his own folly, so clearly you do not agree with your own quote. You want to fill the world with fools.

Sure, compare Gates being arrested for shooting off his mouth to the Holocaust, that shows how reasonable your arguement is. It is sad you refuse to hold anyone accountable for their own actions hugo. Gates was the only person who did something wrong, but the officer deserved to be treated like a piece of sh!t in your opinion. In your sig: The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. What do you suppose Spencer is trying to say? Definition of folly: the trait of acting stupidly or rashly stupidity: a stupid mistake the quality of being rash and foolish foolish or senseless behavior So in this discussion we have Gates' folly, you advocate here that we should shield Gates from his own folly, so clearly you do not agree with your own quote. You want to fill the world with fools.

So you place all the blame on the only guy not acting like an out of control idiot....why? The officer followed the law, there was only one wrong, the one started, and maintained by Gates. Gates started the mess, Gates kept the mess going and increased it over a long period of time, and Gates persued his need to shoot off his big mouth out into the public chasing down the officer. Just letting the officer go was not an option for Gates, but you blame the officer, I wonder if you will hate the police this much if you ever have to dial 911 to get their help one day? I never said that but is that how you try to hide your hate of authority? I feel people should be held responsible for their actions hugo, how about you? Nobody forced Gates to act like an out of control idiot. Let him face the result of his big mouth. Why do you believe one person's lack of self-control means an officer deserves to be abused in such ways?

Old Salt has it right, you have to look at what all the members are saying their intent is on top of whatever actual final bill is approved. There will be many changes still to come because it cannot pass as written right now, they don't have the votes. That is why they are talking about breaking it down into pieces and using 'Reconciliation' to get past the blue dogs who are against this mess. When they break it down, look for lots of little changes that nobody will get a chance to read before they vote on it.

The problem is the Democrats are pissed off over the possibility that their own tactics are being used against them. When Obama started in with the fake questions from his internet town hall meeting then the infomercial fake townhall meeting through ABC, he was the guy with completely created and false support for his program. Now people are trying to attach Obama's tactics to those who are against him but these are mostly real people, not the fake people the Democrats have. Obama and company is employing Transference, they are seeing in other people what they themself do. On the ending private insurance question, we see on page 16 of the house bill: "Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" So once this public plan goes into effect, the private insurance companies cannot write new, or modify existing plans, only the Government will be allowed to add new members to their plan.