3 Strikes Measure Called Costly

[Patriot Games]

"_ G O D _" <DEMIGOD@TELUS.NET> wrote in message
news:nMsOi.10683$Cj1.723@edtnps90...
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote
> news:470a3632$0$32540$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> "_ G O D _" wrote
>> news:OkfOi.10115$Cj1.9477@edtnps90...
>>> "Felix D." <#1Chekist@OGPU.org> wrote
>>> news:aZqdnWHo1rv--5TanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> news:470801db$0$18908$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> What is the purpose of prisons?
>>>> To keep the sociopaths and psychos away from the rest of us
>>> It's your wishful thinking that generates your delusional belief,
>>> Felix. Because prisons purpose is the same as it always has
>>> been, - for perpetuation of oppression, slavery and genocide...
>> What prison are you posting from?
> From the same prison you are posting, Jim...

No... I'm not posting from a prison.

And I'm not posting from Canada either....

 

[Jerry Okamura]

"Felix D." <#1Chekist@OGPU.org> wrote in message
news:aZqdnWHo1rv--5TanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:470801db$0$18908$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> What is the purpose of prisons?
>>
>
> To keep the sociopaths and psychos away from the rest of us and those we
> love.
>
> Next question, please?
>
>
>

That only works when you keep them in prison, which we do not do. So back
to my question, what is the purpose of prison?

 

[Jerry Okamura]

"_ G O D _" <DEMIGOD@TELUS.NET> wrote in message
news:OkfOi.10115$Cj1.9477@edtnps90...
> "Felix D." <#1Chekist@OGPU.org> wrote
> news:aZqdnWHo1rv--5TanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> news:470801db$0$18908$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> What is the purpose of prisons?
>>>
>>
>> To keep the sociopaths and psychos away from the rest of us
>
> It's your wishful thinking that generates your delusional belief,
> Felix. Because prisons purpose is the same as it always has
> been, which is perpetuation of oppression, as well as slavery
> and genocide against the defenseless hostages of the gulag
> economy, its predatory incarceration industry and completely
> corrupt judicial system that benefiting sadistic ****-suckers
> and other beneficiaries of tyranny of rulers and despotism of
> establishments in brutal violation if the sacred Human Rights...
> --
Oh my goodness, we are back to that again. If someone murders a whole lot
of people, what do you propose we do with them? If someone continues to
rape young children, what do you propose we do with them? If someone robs
you and beats the heck out of every member of your family, what do you
propose we do with them?

 

[Jerry Okamura]

"Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hal.i.burton-A3CBDA.21104307102007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article <OkfOi.10115$Cj1.9477@edtnps90>,
> "_ G O D _" <DEMIGOD@TELUS.NET> wrote:
>
>> ...prisons purpose is the same as it always has
>> been, which is perpetuation of oppression, as well as slavery
>> and genocide against the defenseless hostages of the gulag
>> economy, its predatory incarceration industry and completely
>> corrupt judicial system that benefiting sadistic ****-suckers
>> and other beneficiaries of tyranny of rulers and despotism of
>> establishments in brutal violation if the sacred Human Rights...
>
>
>
> You make that sound like it's a bad thing.

It is called idealism run amok

 

[The Master]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007, _ G O D _ wrote:

> I'm so glad you have overcome your delusion about
> "rehabilitative qualities" of the incarceration industry,
> but you still need to work on your delusions about its
> "protection of society...." Because you don't wish to
> recognize the fact that the defenseless hostages of
> the incarceration industry are the victims of interests
> groups who perpetuate the violation of society's rule ....

Double comment here. First, I for one never said that prison has
rehabilitative qualities. Many people (the "feel good" types) think that
it should. However, I never thought it should. Prison should be an
unhappy place, that you never want to go back to again as long as you
live, period. Giving some car theif an associates degree in automotive
technology doesn't exactly make much sense.

As for your second comment, only one thing comes to mind. "HU?!" So it's
not in society's best interests to punish those who rob? Rape a woman,
get a cookie? I'm not sure to what degree you are talking about here. I
say this because what you are talking about sounds a lot like supporting
anarchy.

 

[_ G O D _]

"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote
news:470aa207$0$24285$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "_ G O D _" wrote
> news:nMsOi.10683$Cj1.723@edtnps90...
>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote
>> news:470a3632$0$32540$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> "_ G O D _" wrote
>>> news:OkfOi.10115$Cj1.9477@edtnps90...
>>>> "Felix D." <#1Chekist@OGPU.org> wrote
>>>> news:aZqdnWHo1rv--5TanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> news:470801db$0$18908$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>>> What is the purpose of prisons?
>>>>> To keep the sociopaths and psychos away from the rest of us
>>>> It's your wishful thinking that generates your delusional belief,
>>>> Felix. Because prisons purpose is the same as it always has
>>>> been, - for perpetuation of oppression, slavery and genocide...
>>> What prison are you posting from?
>> From the same prison you are posting, Jim...
>
> No... I'm not posting from a prison.

I wasn't asking you, Jim. I was answering...
(Now you'd probably say you are not Jim)
--
_____________________________________________________

I intend to last long enough to put out of business all ****-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--

 

[_ G O D _]

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
news:470ad630$0$18904$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Felix D." <#1Chekist@OGPU.org> wrote in message
> news:aZqdnWHo1rv--5TanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:470801db$0$18908$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> What is the purpose of prisons?
>>>
>>
>> To keep the sociopaths and psychos away from the rest of us and those we love.
>>
>> Next question, please?
>>
>>
>>
>
> That only works when you keep them in prison, which we do
> not do. So back to my question, what is the purpose of prison?


Wasn't my answer expletive enough for you, Jerry?
Apparently, most sociopaths and psychos are not
subscribing to your notion of prisons' purpose and
do not go to prisons, let alone going to stay there...
And just because somebody decided to call other
man a psycho, or sociopath - in order to place one
in prison, it doesn't make another person a psycho,
who'd readily subscribe to your idea of purpose of
prisons, and would commit oneself unquestionably....
--
_____________________________________________________

I intend to last long enough to put out of business all ****-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--

 

[_ G O D _]

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
news:470ad6a0$0$20591$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "_ G O D _" wrote
> news:OkfOi.10115$Cj1.9477@edtnps90...
>> "Felix D." <#1Chekist@OGPU.org> wrote
>> news:aZqdnWHo1rv--5TanZ2dnUVZ_vamnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> news:470801db$0$18908$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> What is the purpose of prisons?
>>>>
>>>
>>> To keep the sociopaths and psychos away from the rest of us
>>
>> It's your wishful thinking that generates your delusional belief,
>> Felix. Because prisons purpose is the same as it always has
>> been, which is perpetuation of oppression, as well as slavery
>> and genocide against the defenseless hostages of the gulag
>> economy, its predatory incarceration industry and completely
>> corrupt judicial system that benefiting sadistic ****-suckers
>> and other beneficiaries of tyranny of rulers and despotism of
>> establishments in brutal violation if the sacred Human Rights...
>> --
> Oh my goodness, we are back to that again. If someone murders a whole lot of
> people, what do you propose we do with them? If someone continues to rape young
> children, what do you propose we do with them? If someone robs you and beats the
> heck out of every member of your family, what do you propose we do with them?


Please tell me again, what exactly someone's
ability to murder people, and inability of others
to protect themselves because of lack of good
and effective crime prevention measures, has
to do with perpetuation of the prison industry?
Didn't I already tell you what to do with felons, -
only about a million of times, to prevent crime?
--
_____________________________________________________

I intend to last long enough to put out of business all ****-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--

 

[_ G O D _]

"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
news:470ad6bd$0$32524$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hal.i.burton-A3CBDA.21104307102007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>> In article <OkfOi.10115$Cj1.9477@edtnps90>,
>> "_ G O D _" wrote:
>>
>>> ...prisons purpose is the same as it always has
>>> been, which is perpetuation of oppression, as well as slavery
>>> and genocide against the defenseless hostages of the gulag
>>> economy, its predatory incarceration industry and completely
>>> corrupt judicial system that benefiting sadistic ****-suckers
>>> and other beneficiaries of tyranny of rulers and despotism of
>>> establishments in brutal violation if the sacred Human Rights...
>>
>>
>>
>> You make that sound like it's a bad thing.
>
> It is called idealism run amok


I don't know what a ****-sucking sadistic
americunt retard would call an "idealism,"
but I know that there's an infinity lie toward
improvement of improvement of our lives,
that is based on respect of Human Rights.
But first, - people have to learn their rights -
before they'll start to respect others' rights...
--
_____________________________________________________

I intend to last long enough to put out of business all ****-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--

 

[_ G O D _]

"The Master" <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote
newsine.NEB.4.64.0710091434530.9432@sdf.lonestar.org...
> _ G O D _ wrote:
>
>> I'm so glad you have overcome your delusion about
>> "rehabilitative qualities" of the incarceration industry,
>> but you still need to work on your delusions about its
>> "protection of society...." Because you don't wish to
>> recognize the fact that the defenseless hostages of
>> the incarceration industry are the victims of interests
>> groups who perpetuate the violation of society's rule ....
>
> Double comment here. First, I for one never said that prison has rehabilitative
> qualities. Many people (the "feel good" types) think that it should. However, I
> never thought it should. Prison should be an unhappy place, that you never want to
> go back to again as long as you live, period. Giving some car theif an associates
> degree in automotive technology doesn't exactly make much sense.
>
> As for your second comment, only one thing comes to mind. "HU?!" So it's not in
> society's best interests to punish those who rob? Rape a woman, get a cookie? I'm
> not sure to what degree you are talking about here. I say this because what you
> are talking about sounds a lot like supporting anarchy.


If you'll go and look in the dictionary for definition
of word "anarchy," you'll see that it is referring to
"the political system without a monarch." In other
words, "non-dictatorship,"- a democratic system
without authoritarian figure in charge or in power.
So, supporting anarchy doesn't mean supporting
lawlessness. Therefore, I will not argue this label...

But as for punishing people, ie inflicting suffering
of artificial misery and hardship upon individuals
just because they're at the disadvantage in court,
and convicted of crime by the completely corrupt
judicial system (at tax-payers expense) does not
wash with me as a "reasonable money spending."
--
_____________________________________________________

I intend to last long enough to put out of business all ****-suckers
and other beneficiaries of the institutionalized slavery and genocide.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The army that will defeat terrorism doesn't wear uniforms, or drive
Humvees, or calls in air-strikes. It doesn't have a high command, or
high security, or a high budget. The army that can defeat terrorism
does battle quietly, clearing minefields and vaccinating children. It
undermines military dictatorships and military lobbyists. It subverts
sweatshops and special interests.Where people feel powerless, it
helps them organize for change, and where people are powerful, it
reminds them of their responsibility." ~~~~ Author Unknown ~~~~
___________________________________________________
--

 

[NapalmHeart]

"Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
news:46f3dc60$0$32502$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "NapalmHeart" <olsonfam@iserv.net> wrote in message
> news:13f53nhafed5d5b@corp.supernews.com...
>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
>> news:46f28008$0$32496$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>> "NapalmHeart" <olsonfam@iserv.net> wrote in message
>>> news:13f2e0aeuuuqa55@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:46eee055$0$17130$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>> <lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1190054259.875233.296200@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> Three strike measures:
>>>>>> - Are draconian
>>>>> Subjective, irrelevant.
>>>>>> - Expensive
>>>>> Crime is expensive.
>>>> I agree, but bills still have to be paid. This is not a simple
>>>> subject.
>>> Sure it is.
>>> We need to decriminalize some drug crimes, especially pot. Heavy
>>> fines and no prison. Then in every instance where no violence
>>> occurred release all pot prisoners.
>>> But we will still need more prisons.
>>> Then we need a National 10-20-Life like Florida has:
>>> http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/10-20-life/index.html
>>> If we can't imprison or deport all Democrats we may have to take
>>> them out in the streets.
>>> Prison rehabiltation doesn't work. We've been trying it for
>>> decades, and we've been keeping good data on it and we know it
>>> doesn't work. 15% self-rehabilitate, the rest never do. When we get
>>> a prisoner we force them to complete high school, no exceptions, and
>>> we keep them incarcerated until they do even if that is beyond their
>>> original sentence. If they graduated high school or have a GED we
>>> force them to pick a trade, learn a trade, pass a licensing test for
>>> that trade and we keep them incarcerated until they do even if that
>>> is beyond their original sentence. If they graduated high school or
>>> have a GED and if they have been licensed to perform a trade we need
>>> do nothing more with them.
>>> Violent crime in America is 71% urban and black. If we eliminate
>>> urban blacks we reduce violent crime in America by 71%. We
>>> eliminate urban black crime by destroying those urban neighborhoods
>>> and ghettos that breed and support it. All of them. No exceptions.
>>> If we have in place the same basic education and skill training for
>>> these people as we have in prison then we can count on 15%
>>> self-rehabilitating and the rest going to prison for life. Either
>>> way we have reduced violent crime by 71% and created a much safer
>>> place for the honest law-abiding taxpayers.
>>> Simple.
>> Without getting into it point by point I basically agree with you.
>> But even what you have proposed would cost a lot of money. At least
>> where I work, they aren't that many pot offenders. I would legalize,
>> regulate, and tax pot.
>
> I could probably be talked into legalizing pot instead of
> decriminalizing it. It might be crass but I would base my personal
> decision on the tax revenue from legalized tax pot versus the revenue
> from fines. Whichever proposal brings in more revenue I'm for it.
>
> Getting the non-violent drugs users and possessors out of prison could
> reduce the overall prison population by maybe 30%. Since we're at 34%
> over-capacity we'll still need more prisons...
>
>> The underclass would keep happening even if you destroyed the 'hoods.
>
> My gut feeling agrees with you. However, my brain strongly disagrees
> with you for two reasons. First, I never like dismissing an idea that
> hasn't been tried. Second, we do know that the vast majority of
> ghetto criminals were raised by ghetto criminals and we might find
> some success if we break that cycle.
>
>
I'm not denying that you may have something here, but it would be very
costly. The ghettos that would be destroyed are owned by someone who
would have to be compensated. People would still have to have places to
live, which would likely result in another "ghetto".

 

[Patriot Games]

"NapalmHeart" <olsonfamNOSPAM@iserv.net> wrote in message
news:13go4lf6qlf0p83@corp.supernews.com...
> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
> news:46f3dc60$0$32502$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> "NapalmHeart" <olsonfam@iserv.net> wrote in message
>> news:13f53nhafed5d5b@corp.supernews.com...
>>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
>>> news:46f28008$0$32496$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>> "NapalmHeart" <olsonfam@iserv.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:13f2e0aeuuuqa55@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> "Patriot Games" <Patriot@America.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:46eee055$0$17130$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>>> <lorad474@cs.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:1190054259.875233.296200@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> Three strike measures:
>>>>>>> - Are draconian
>>>>>> Subjective, irrelevant.
>>>>>>> - Expensive
>>>>>> Crime is expensive.
>>>>> I agree, but bills still have to be paid. This is not a simple
>>>>> subject.
>>>> Sure it is.
>>>> We need to decriminalize some drug crimes, especially pot. Heavy fines
>>>> and no prison. Then in every instance where no violence occurred
>>>> release all pot prisoners.
>>>> But we will still need more prisons.
>>>> Then we need a National 10-20-Life like Florida has:
>>>> http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/10-20-life/index.html
>>>> If we can't imprison or deport all Democrats we may have to take them
>>>> out in the streets.
>>>> Prison rehabiltation doesn't work. We've been trying it for decades,
>>>> and we've been keeping good data on it and we know it doesn't work. 15%
>>>> self-rehabilitate, the rest never do. When we get a prisoner we force
>>>> them to complete high school, no exceptions, and we keep them
>>>> incarcerated until they do even if that is beyond their original
>>>> sentence. If they graduated high school or have a GED we force them to
>>>> pick a trade, learn a trade, pass a licensing test for that trade and
>>>> we keep them incarcerated until they do even if that is beyond their
>>>> original sentence. If they graduated high school or have a GED and if
>>>> they have been licensed to perform a trade we need do nothing more with
>>>> them.
>>>> Violent crime in America is 71% urban and black. If we eliminate urban
>>>> blacks we reduce violent crime in America by 71%. We eliminate urban
>>>> black crime by destroying those urban neighborhoods and ghettos that
>>>> breed and support it. All of them. No exceptions. If we have in place
>>>> the same basic education and skill training for these people as we have
>>>> in prison then we can count on 15% self-rehabilitating and the rest
>>>> going to prison for life. Either way we have reduced violent crime by
>>>> 71% and created a much safer place for the honest law-abiding
>>>> taxpayers.
>>>> Simple.
>>> Without getting into it point by point I basically agree with you. But
>>> even what you have proposed would cost a lot of money. At least where I
>>> work, they aren't that many pot offenders. I would legalize, regulate,
>>> and tax pot.
>> I could probably be talked into legalizing pot instead of decriminalizing
>> it. It might be crass but I would base my personal decision on the tax
>> revenue from legalized tax pot versus the revenue from fines. Whichever
>> proposal brings in more revenue I'm for it.
>> Getting the non-violent drugs users and possessors out of prison could
>> reduce the overall prison population by maybe 30%. Since we're at 34%
>> over-capacity we'll still need more prisons...
>>> The underclass would keep happening even if you destroyed the 'hoods.
>> My gut feeling agrees with you. However, my brain strongly disagrees
>> with you for two reasons. First, I never like dismissing an idea that
>> hasn't been tried. Second, we do know that the vast majority of ghetto
>> criminals were raised by ghetto criminals and we might find some success
>> if we break that cycle.
> I'm not denying that you may have something here, but it would be very
> costly. The ghettos that would be destroyed are owned by someone who
> would have to be compensated.

We could maybe get around that by reminding the property owner that we could
slap Imminent Domain on his ass anytime and then offering to pay for the
demolition and offerring low-interest construction loans or maybe tax breaks
for the first couple of years.

> People would still have to have places to live, which would likely result
> in another "ghetto".

It only results in another ghetto if WE create it or allow it to happen.

We avoid that by not building another one AND by seeding the displaced urban
population INTO the suburbs.

Because some people might freak out over that idea I should be perfectly
clear about it:

The city/state gov't would find a townhouse or house or whatever for sale
somewhere in some largely white, low crime suburb. The city/state gov't
would BUY it. No deals, just a straight purchase. The city/state gov't
would move that uneducated unemployeed urban black family into that home and
even furnish it. Then the educating/training/handholding begins. At its
conclusion the city/state gov't finds one or more of the household a real
job. Then, lastly, the city/state gov't may offer to sell the home to that
family, no deals - no discounts, or that family may decide to move to
another place (and the city/state gov't can re-use that property).

If you move 50 uneducated unemployed black families to a brand new
subsidized apartment building in the white suburbs all you've is created a
new mini-ghetto.

If you move ONE (or a few) uneducated unemployeed black family into a
middle-class neighborhood you've prevented the creation of a mini-ghetto and
forced that family to succeed or utterly collapse. No in-between allowed,
no going back because there is no 'back' to go back to. Its like bussing,
like forced public school integration, except this is the extreme (and
terminal) version.

Bottomllne: We didn't take on the responsibility to educate and train the
freed slaves. To this day we're still ducking that responsibility. To this
day we're hoping the problem will solve itself. It ain't gonna solve itself
and a 150 years later that ought to be pretty obvious.