"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND EVERYSINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO P

S

Spiritman

Guest
Online at: www.thetestimonyofjesuschrist.blogspot.com/2007/11/all-israel-shall-be-saved.html

_______



"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND EVERY
SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL SOMEDAY
BECOME A CHRISTIAN?


___________________________
ROMANS CHAPTER ELEVEN
___________________________


Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I
also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of
Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye
not what the Scripture saith of Elijah? how he maketh intercession to
God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine
altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to
myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of
Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant
according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace
is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace:
otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh
for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit
of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should
not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap,
and a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow
down their back always.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God
forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the
Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the
diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their
fullness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of
the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my
flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the
world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if
the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a
wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest
of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou
bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I
might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou
standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest
he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them
which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in
his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be
grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by
nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree:
how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted
into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of
this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the
Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There
shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness
from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away
their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:
but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers'
sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now
obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your
mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might
have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge
of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding
out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been
his counselor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed
unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to
whom be glory forever. Amen.



In Rom 8:26-27, Paul was quoting from the Old Testament, Isa 59:20-21,
a prophecy of the Deliver that was to come, and as Paul knew the
Deliver did come out of Zion, just as Isaiah Prophesied so long ago,
Jesus was the Deliver sent to Israel, manifest into flesh to take away
the sins of the world. And while many Israelites were blinded to see
Jesus as their Deliver, so that the message would be preached to the
Gentiles, a remnant of Israelites did believe in him, and as the
Gentiles obtained mercy because of the disobedience of Israel, and
Israel mercy because of the mercy obtained by the Gentiles, ALL Israel
could then be saved by the mercy of God.

That "all Israel would be saved" is not to say only the Jews, that
someday every single Jew in Israel would become a Christian, and there
would someday be no more who practice Judaism in Israel, not a single
one. That is to say ALL Israel would be saved, Jew & Gentile, we of
the Israel of God are not seen by God as Jew or Gentile, but as seeds
of Abraham, belonging to Christ, and through Christ we have a way to
the Father! Isn't it amazing how God pulled this off! He was very
clever and very merciful to us all to have made this possible! His
ways are a great mystery! I love Him for that!

A remnant of Israelites did believe in him, and were saved. The
remnant who believed in Christ were the election, the others who were
hardened were not the election, but enemy's of the gospel...

Rom 11:5 So then, also in the present time a remnant according to
election of grace has come into being.
Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel seeks, this it did not obtain, but the
election obtained it, and the rest were hardened .

So you see, those who were hardened were enemy's of the gospel, but
those who believed were the very elect of God, and so were the
Gentiles who believed, counted as the seeds of Abraham too! What a
great mercy of God! Yes, God made a promise to the seeds of Abraham
long ago.Yes, there was a blindness of Israel in those days. They
refused to see the light. Yet, I am grateful, it is marvelous in my
eyes! I am not mad at the sons and daughters of the blind husbandmen,
I am grateful! It was because of their blindness that the gospel was
preached to the Gentiles, and ALL Israel was saved, Jew & Gentile.

There is something wrong with the verse below. See if you can spot
it:

1John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. [23]
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that
acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (Unless you are born a Jew
according to the flesh, then you don't need to believe in Christ.)

This is the gospel truth, that he who has the Son has the Father, but
he who does not have the Son does not have the Father. This even
applies to those who are said to be Jews, and practice Judaism. The
lie is that the children of the promise, born as seeds of Abraham, are
born of flesh, having nothing to do with Christ. The truth is that we
who belong to Christ are counted as seeds of Abraham, not born of
flesh, but born of spirit.

As you know, there is One Way to the Father, and that is Christ. He
was born of the tribe of Judah, of the woman who represents the 12
tribes. We are his brothers and sisters, we who believe in him, and
love him. We are born into his royal family, of the woman, as seeds of
Abraham, not by flesh, but of Spirit!


_______________________________________________________
SINCE WHEN ARE ANTICHRIST PEOPLE THE VERY ELECT OF GOD?
_______________________________________________________


Those who did not/do not believe Jesus was the Messiah sent from God
who was manifest in the flesh were/are anti-Christ. This goes for
Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, and all who do not believe Jesus was the
Messiah sent from God who was manifest in the flesh. But when it comes
to the Jews, many Christians ignorantly proclaim that those who
practice Judaism in Israel, who are said to be Jews, who have nothing
to do with Christ, are God's very elect. Truth is, they are not, they
are anti-Christ.

Those who deny Jesus is the Son of God, and was manifest into the
flesh are antichrist. This is easily proven in a simple reading of the
context of each time the term "antichrist" appears, and only in the
books of John. What John was referring to was how Jesus the Messiah
truly did come in the flesh, but many did not believe Jesus was the
Messiah sent from God in the flesh. Look at every single time the term
appears to better understand what this term means...

[1]1John 2:18 Little children, IT IS THE LAST TIME: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, EVEN NOW THERE ARE MANY antichrists;
whereby we KNOW that IT IS THE LAST TIME.

Remember, this was spoken in the first century.

[2]1John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. [23]
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that
acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

An antichrist was one who denied Jesus was the Son of God, and there
were many...

3]1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is
come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of
antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; AND EVEN NOW IS
ALREADY IN THE WORLD.

Remember, this was spoken in the first century!

[4]2John 1:7 For MANY deceivers ARE entered into the world, who
confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver
and an antichrist.

Many deceivers were already in the world in the first century. They
denied Jesus the Messiah had come in the flesh. The translators had it
right to say "is come", even to say "as coming", or "to have come".
That is truly the context of the message as proven by all previous
uses of the term "antichrist". Comparison of the last scripture...

(ISV) For many deceivers have gone out into the world. They refuse to
acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. Any such person is a
deceiver and an antichrist.

(LITV) Because many deceivers went out into the world, those not
confessing Jesus Christ to have come in the flesh, this is the
deceiver and the antichrist.


________________________________
THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES
________________________________


As for the "fullness of the Gentiles" that Paul spoke of, after Christ
ascended unto the Father, within 40 years, the gospel was preached to
every creature under heaven, the Gentiles had gladly received the news
of the Deliver, Jesus the Messiah, becoming as husbandmen of Israel,
and so it was, ALL Israel was saved, Jew and Gentile, by the mercy of
the Deliver, Christ the Lord.

Also, Jesus spoke of a "times of the Gentiles", saying "Jerusalem
would be trodden of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be
fulfilled". So that when Jerusalem was trodden of the Gentiles is to
say that the times of the Gentiles would be fulfilled when Jerusalem
was trodden of the Gentiles. Jerusalem was trodden of the Gentiles by
70 AD, within that same generation, just like Jesus said, so the times
of the Gentiles were both fulfilled in the first century. How many
Gentiles need to believe in Jesus the Messiah for the fullness of the
Gentiles to have come? How many times does Jerusalem have to be
trodden of the Gentiles for the fullness of the Gentiles to have come?


Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then
know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and
let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them
that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which
are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give
suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land,
and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be
led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down
of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


_______
WHEN?
_______

Jesus said:

Luke 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which
are written may be fulfilled.

"These" days were those days.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of
this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will
draw all men unto me.

"Now" was then.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away,
till all be fulfilled.

"This generation" was His generation.


___________
A PARABLE
___________


Hear a parable about the generation whom the Son of God was sent. Hear
why judgment began with his people, why his people were to be judged,
and when:



Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which
planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress
in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into
a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his
servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and
killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they
did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will
reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among
themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize
on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and
slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will
he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked
men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall
render him the fruits in their seasons.
Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the Scriptures,
"The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of
the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our
eyes"?
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken
from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but
on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
[ ]Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his
parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the
multitude, because they took him for a prophet.


[ ]They, the chief priests and Pharisees, workers of the Temple in
Jerusalem perceived that he spake of them. I would say those fellers
perceived well! Here's the deal. God kept sending prophets unto his
people, but they kept killing them. This had gone on since the days of
Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and for almost 600 years since Daniel, this
had been going on for an awful long time! Finally, God sent His
beloved Son, but they killed him too. So the wrath of God was to be
poured out, for the blood of all the prophets, and even his beloved
son.

Jesus was a Jew, and the Jews were His "husbandmen". He was sent from
His Father, and came to His own land, like a groom coming for His
bride, but she cast Him away. So the groom let out his vineyard unto
other husbandmen, which is to say the Gentiles, the kingdom of God
would be preached unto the Gentiles after his death, and so it was,
the kingdom was given to the Gentiles, and they did render him the
fruits. It was not long and the gospel of the kingdom of God "was
preached to every creature under heaven", as Paul was the Apostle to
the Gentiles.

That is what the parable was about. Hear the many parables of Christ,
they were often about those wicked first century workers of the Temple
in Jerusalem, and the workers of the Temple knew it, they wanted to
kill Him every time Jesus spoke to them in parables.






Jerry's final thought...

Pray for Peace in Jerusalem, all Israel. She has received from the
Lords hand double for her sins, she was cleansed, she was pardoned,
all in the first century marking the end of that age. Jesus is a light
to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of his people Israel. In this
new age of Christ, If a Jew will call upon the Father for salvation
through Christ, that Jew will be saved from eternal death.
Unfortunately, there is no "Jewish escape clause" for eternal life
without Christ. There is no way to the Father without Christ, because
in His perfect righteousness, we have a way to the Father, being
clothed in His righteousness, not our own.




Say it with me, please...

I pledge allegiance... to the God...of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob....
And to the kingdom... for which Christ stands... all nations... under
God...invincible... with liberty and justice for all. AMEN



See: "Hello Christian, Hello Israel"-
www.thetestimonyofjesuschrist.blogspot.com/2007/02/hello-christian-hello-israel.html
See: "The siege of Jerusalem"- www.thetestimonyofjesuschrist.blogspot.com/2006/08/siege-of-jerusalem.html

Dear Person, our Father would like to tell you something-
www.homewithgod.com/Cards/fathersloveletter.shtml

Would you like to download a FREE e-Bible?- www.e-sword.net
 
"Spiritman" <Spiritman@q.com> wrote in message
news:bf007a2b-9c60-456a-a871-6ddfca869da4@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Online at:
> www.thetestimonyofjesuschrist.blogspot.com/2007/11/all-israel-shall-be-saved.html
>
> _______
>
>
>
> "ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND
> EVERY
> SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL
> SOMEDAY
> BECOME A CHRISTIAN?
>
>
> ___________________________
> ROMANS CHAPTER ELEVEN
> ___________________________
>
>
> Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God
> forbid. For I
> also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe
> of
> Benjamin.
> Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he
> foreknew. Wot ye
> not what the Scripture saith of Elijah? how he maketh
> intercession to
> God against Israel, saying,
> Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged
> down thine
> altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
> Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have
> reserved to
> myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to
> the image of
> Baal.
> Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a
> remnant
> according to the election of grace.
> Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works:
> otherwise grace
> is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more
> grace:
> otherwise work is no more work.
> Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he
> seeketh
> for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were
> blinded.
> Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them
> the spirit
> of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that
> they should
> not hear;) unto this day.
> Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare,
> and a trap,
> and a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:
> Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see,
> and bow
> down their back always.
> Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should
> fall? God
> forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto
> the
> Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
> Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the
> world, and the
> diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much
> more their
> fullness?
> Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the
> apostle of
> the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
> Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them
> which are my
> flesh, and might save some of them.
> Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling
> of the
> world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from
> the dead?
> Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also
> holy: and if
> the root be holy, so are the branches.
> Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and
> thou, being a
> wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them
> partakest
> of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
> Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast,
> thou
> bearest not the root, but the root thee.
> Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off,
> that I
> might be grafted in.
> Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off,
> and thou
> standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
> Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take
> heed lest
> he also spare not thee.
> Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God:
> on them
> which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou
> continue in
> his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
> Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in
> unbelief, shall be
> grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
> Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which
> is wild by
> nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good
> olive tree:
> how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be
> grafted
> into their own olive tree?
> Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be
> ignorant of
> this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
> that
> blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness
> of the
> Gentiles be come in.
> Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is
> written, There
> shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away
> ungodliness
> from Jacob:
> Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall
> take away
> their sins.
> Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for
> your sakes:
> but as touching the election, they are beloved for the
> fathers'
> sakes.
> Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without
> repentance.
> Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet
> have now
> obtained mercy through their unbelief:
> Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that
> through your
> mercy they also may obtain mercy.
> Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that
> he might
> have mercy upon all.
> Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and
> knowledge
> of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways
> past finding
> out!
> Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who
> hath been
> his counselor?
> Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be
> recompensed
> unto him again?
> Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
> things: to
> whom be glory forever. Amen.
>
>
>
> In Rom 8:26-27, Paul was quoting from the Old Testament, Isa
> 59:20-21,
> a prophecy of the Deliver that was to come, and as Paul knew
> the
> Deliver did come out of Zion, just as Isaiah Prophesied so
> long ago,
> Jesus was the Deliver sent to Israel, manifest into flesh to
> take away
> the sins of the world. And while many Israelites were
> blinded to see
> Jesus as their Deliver, so that the message would be
> preached to the
> Gentiles, a remnant of Israelites did believe in him, and as
> the
> Gentiles obtained mercy because of the disobedience of
> Israel, and
> Israel mercy because of the mercy obtained by the Gentiles,
> ALL Israel
> could then be saved by the mercy of God.
>
> That "all Israel would be saved" is not to say only the
> Jews, that
> someday every single Jew in Israel would become a Christian,
> and there
> would someday be no more who practice Judaism in Israel, not
> a single
> one. That is to say ALL Israel would be saved, Jew &
> Gentile, we of
> the Israel of God are not seen by God as Jew or Gentile, but
> as seeds
> of Abraham, belonging to Christ, and through Christ we have
> a way to
> the Father! Isn't it amazing how God pulled this off! He was
> very
> clever and very merciful to us all to have made this
> possible! His
> ways are a great mystery! I love Him for that!
>
> A remnant of Israelites did believe in him, and were saved.
> The
> remnant who believed in Christ were the election, the others
> who were
> hardened were not the election, but enemy's of the gospel...
>
> Rom 11:5 So then, also in the present time a remnant
> according to
> election of grace has come into being.
> Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel seeks, this it did not
> obtain, but the
> election obtained it, and the rest were hardened .
>
> So you see, those who were hardened were enemy's of the
> gospel, but
> those who believed were the very elect of God, and so were
> the
> Gentiles who believed, counted as the seeds of Abraham too!
> What a
> great mercy of God! Yes, God made a promise to the seeds of
> Abraham
> long ago.Yes, there was a blindness of Israel in those days.
> They
> refused to see the light. Yet, I am grateful, it is
> marvelous in my
> eyes! I am not mad at the sons and daughters of the blind
> husbandmen,
> I am grateful! It was because of their blindness that the
> gospel was
> preached to the Gentiles, and ALL Israel was saved, Jew &
> Gentile.
>
> There is something wrong with the verse below. See if you
> can spot
> it:
>
> 1John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
> is the
> Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the
> Son. [23]
> Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but
> he that
> acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (Unless you are
> born a Jew
> according to the flesh, then you don't need to believe in
> Christ.)
>
> This is the gospel truth, that he who has the Son has the
> Father, but
> he who does not have the Son does not have the Father. This
> even
> applies to those who are said to be Jews, and practice
> Judaism. The
> lie is that the children of the promise, born as seeds of
> Abraham, are
> born of flesh, having nothing to do with Christ. The truth
> is that we
> who belong to Christ are counted as seeds of Abraham, not
> born of
> flesh, but born of spirit.
>
> As you know, there is One Way to the Father, and that is
> Christ. He
> was born of the tribe of Judah, of the woman who represents
> the 12
> tribes. We are his brothers and sisters, we who believe in
> him, and
> love him. We are born into his royal family, of the woman,
> as seeds of
> Abraham, not by flesh, but of Spirit!
>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> SINCE WHEN ARE ANTICHRIST PEOPLE THE VERY ELECT OF GOD?
> _______________________________________________________



Since when are enemies of the gospel those who are being saved
into the church? "Israel", in Romans 11, is not the church,
but Israel, and she will be saved, in keeping with God's gifts
and promises, when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
The fullness of the Gentiles coming in is not the "Israel",
which is an enemy of the gospel while the fullness of the
Gentiles is coming in, yet is the "Israel" which "shall be
saved", "as it is written". You are trying to confuse the
fact that every individual Jew is not currently being saved
into the church, with the lie that therefore Israel has been
rejected by God, and will not be restored again, as a people.
 
On Nov 28, 7:22 am, "(R)andy" <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Spiritman" <Spirit...@q.com> wrote in message
>
> news:bf007a2b-9c60-456a-a871-6ddfca869da4@d27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Online at:
> >www.thetestimonyofjesuschrist.blogspot.com/2007/11/all-israel-shall-b...

>
> > _______

>
> > "ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND
> > EVERY
> > SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL
> > SOMEDAY
> > BECOME A CHRISTIAN?

>
> > ___________________________
> > ROMANS CHAPTER ELEVEN
> > ___________________________

>
> > Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God
> > forbid. For I
> > also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe
> > of
> > Benjamin.
> > Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he
> > foreknew. Wot ye
> > not what the Scripture saith of Elijah? how he maketh
> > intercession to
> > God against Israel, saying,
> > Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged
> > down thine
> > altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
> > Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have
> > reserved to
> > myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to
> > the image of
> > Baal.
> > Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a
> > remnant
> > according to the election of grace.
> > Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works:
> > otherwise grace
> > is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more
> > grace:
> > otherwise work is no more work.
> > Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he
> > seeketh
> > for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were
> > blinded.
> > Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them
> > the spirit
> > of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that
> > they should
> > not hear;) unto this day.
> > Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare,
> > and a trap,
> > and a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:
> > Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see,
> > and bow
> > down their back always.
> > Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should
> > fall? God
> > forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto
> > the
> > Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
> > Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the
> > world, and the
> > diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much
> > more their
> > fullness?
> > Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the
> > apostle of
> > the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
> > Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them
> > which are my
> > flesh, and might save some of them.
> > Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling
> > of the
> > world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from
> > the dead?
> > Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also
> > holy: and if
> > the root be holy, so are the branches.
> > Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and
> > thou, being a
> > wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them
> > partakest
> > of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
> > Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast,
> > thou
> > bearest not the root, but the root thee.
> > Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off,
> > that I
> > might be grafted in.
> > Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off,
> > and thou
> > standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
> > Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take
> > heed lest
> > he also spare not thee.
> > Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God:
> > on them
> > which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou
> > continue in
> > his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
> > Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in
> > unbelief, shall be
> > grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
> > Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which
> > is wild by
> > nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good
> > olive tree:
> > how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be
> > grafted
> > into their own olive tree?
> > Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be
> > ignorant of
> > this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;
> > that
> > blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness
> > of the
> > Gentiles be come in.
> > Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is
> > written, There
> > shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away
> > ungodliness
> > from Jacob:
> > Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall
> > take away
> > their sins.
> > Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for
> > your sakes:
> > but as touching the election, they are beloved for the
> > fathers'
> > sakes.
> > Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without
> > repentance.
> > Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet
> > have now
> > obtained mercy through their unbelief:
> > Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that
> > through your
> > mercy they also may obtain mercy.
> > Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that
> > he might
> > have mercy upon all.
> > Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and
> > knowledge
> > of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways
> > past finding
> > out!
> > Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who
> > hath been
> > his counselor?
> > Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be
> > recompensed
> > unto him again?
> > Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all
> > things: to
> > whom be glory forever. Amen.

>
> > In Rom 8:26-27, Paul was quoting from the Old Testament, Isa
> > 59:20-21,
> > a prophecy of the Deliver that was to come, and as Paul knew
> > the
> > Deliver did come out of Zion, just as Isaiah Prophesied so
> > long ago,
> > Jesus was the Deliver sent to Israel, manifest into flesh to
> > take away
> > the sins of the world. And while many Israelites were
> > blinded to see
> > Jesus as their Deliver, so that the message would be
> > preached to the
> > Gentiles, a remnant of Israelites did believe in him, and as
> > the
> > Gentiles obtained mercy because of the disobedience of
> > Israel, and
> > Israel mercy because of the mercy obtained by the Gentiles,
> > ALL Israel
> > could then be saved by the mercy of God.

>
> > That "all Israel would be saved" is not to say only the
> > Jews, that
> > someday every single Jew in Israel would become a Christian,
> > and there
> > would someday be no more who practice Judaism in Israel, not
> > a single
> > one. That is to say ALL Israel would be saved, Jew &
> > Gentile, we of
> > the Israel of God are not seen by God as Jew or Gentile, but
> > as seeds
> > of Abraham, belonging to Christ, and through Christ we have
> > a way to
> > the Father! Isn't it amazing how God pulled this off! He was
> > very
> > clever and very merciful to us all to have made this
> > possible! His
> > ways are a great mystery! I love Him for that!

>
> > A remnant of Israelites did believe in him, and were saved.
> > The
> > remnant who believed in Christ were the election, the others
> > who were
> > hardened were not the election, but enemy's of the gospel...

>
> > Rom 11:5 So then, also in the present time a remnant
> > according to
> > election of grace has come into being.
> > Rom 11:7 What then? What Israel seeks, this it did not
> > obtain, but the
> > election obtained it, and the rest were hardened .

>
> > So you see, those who were hardened were enemy's of the
> > gospel, but
> > those who believed were the very elect of God, and so were
> > the
> > Gentiles who believed, counted as the seeds of Abraham too!
> > What a
> > great mercy of God! Yes, God made a promise to the seeds of
> > Abraham
> > long ago.Yes, there was a blindness of Israel in those days.
> > They
> > refused to see the light. Yet, I am grateful, it is
> > marvelous in my
> > eyes! I am not mad at the sons and daughters of the blind
> > husbandmen,
> > I am grateful! It was because of their blindness that the
> > gospel was
> > preached to the Gentiles, and ALL Israel was saved, Jew &
> > Gentile.

>
> > There is something wrong with the verse below. See if you
> > can spot
> > it:

>
> > 1John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
> > is the
> > Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the
> > Son. [23]
> > Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but
> > he that
> > acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. (Unless you are
> > born a Jew
> > according to the flesh, then you don't need to believe in
> > Christ.)

>
> > This is the gospel truth, that he who has the Son has the
> > Father, but
> > he who does not have the Son does not have the Father. This
> > even
> > applies to those who are said to be Jews, and practice
> > Judaism. The
> > lie is that the children of the promise, born as seeds of
> > Abraham, are
> > born of flesh, having nothing to do with Christ. The truth
> > is that we
> > who belong to Christ are counted as seeds of Abraham, not
> > born of
> > flesh, but born of spirit.

>
> > As you know, there is One Way to the Father, and that is
> > Christ. He
> > was born of the tribe of Judah, of the woman who represents
> > the 12
> > tribes. We are his brothers and sisters, we who believe in
> > him, and
> > love him. We are born into his royal family, of the woman,
> > as seeds of
> > Abraham, not by flesh, but of Spirit!

>
> > _______________________________________________________
> > SINCE WHEN ARE ANTICHRIST PEOPLE THE VERY ELECT OF GOD?
> > _______________________________________________________

>
> Since when are enemies of the gospel those who are being saved
> into the church?



Exactly. I think it is Chuck who claims the "enemys of the gospel"
were the very elect of God. What I said was the enemys of the gospel
were those who were hardened, and did not believe in Jesus. The elect
were those who did believe in Him and were saved.
 
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:03:30 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
<Spiritman@q.com> said the following:


>"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND EVERY
>SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL SOMEDAY
>BECOME A CHRISTIAN?


Yes Jerry, it's limited universalism! :)

But they actually go so far as to claim that Jews
won't need to become Christians. They can be
saved through the Law and that third temple
will have animal sacrifices, which is the only
purpose for the temple anyway and Jesus will
be thrilled about this!

--

Satan subtracts and divides. God adds and multiplies.
 
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:49:11 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
<Spiritman@q.com> said the following:


>> > _______________________________________________________
>> > SINCE WHEN ARE ANTICHRIST PEOPLE THE VERY ELECT OF GOD?
>> > _______________________________________________________

>>
>> Since when are enemies of the gospel those who are being saved
>> into the church?

>
>
>Exactly. I think it is Chuck who claims the "enemys of the gospel"
>were the very elect of God.


All the Dispy's do, Jerry!


>The elect are those who believe in Him and are saved.


Unless they're Jews Jerry, then they don't have to be! :)

--

"We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected
the Sermon on the Mount... The world has achieved
brilliance without conscience. Ours is a world of
nuclear giants and ethical infants."
- General Omar Bradley
 
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bujsk3pe1mtebrqqbdi73ngq0i75i2sksq@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:03:30 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
> <Spiritman@q.com> said the following:
>
>
>>"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND EVERY
>>SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL SOMEDAY
>>BECOME A CHRISTIAN?


???????

You can't read? After the gospel elect Christians, who are grafted into
Israel are saved, the rest of Israel, the enemy-of-the-gospel elect are
saved: Romans 11:25-29
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is
happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. [26] And
so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion
the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: [27] For this is
my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. [28] As concerning
the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election,
they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [29] For the gifts and calling of
God are without repentance.

>
> Yes Jerry, it's limited universalism! :)
>


Ah.... preterism is a reading disability?


> But they actually go so far as to claim that Jews
> won't need to become Christians. They can be
> saved through the Law and that third temple
> will have animal sacrifices, which is the only
> purpose for the temple anyway and Jesus will
> be thrilled about this!



Indeed, He will:

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Galatians 5:3
For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a
debtor to do the whole law.

His,


2 John 1:7 (ASV)
For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess
not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the
antichrist.


--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak

ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><






>
> --
>
> Satan subtracts and divides. God adds and multiplies.
>
 
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 05:33:28 -0600, "kingarthur"
<fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> said the following:


>"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:03:30 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
>> <Spiritman@q.com> said the following:
>>
>>
>>>"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND EVERY
>>>SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL SOMEDAY
>>>BECOME A CHRISTIAN?

>
>???????


Freddy, your new nic is kill filed.

Now why don't you go and show your pastor
how you address me, you liar!

--

If you don't want to reap the fruits of sin, stay out
of the devil's orchard.
 
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:37:27 -0500,
in article <bujsk3pe1mtebrqqbdi73ngq0i75i2sksq@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:03:30 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
><Spiritman@q.com> said the following:
>
>
>>"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND EVERY
>>SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL SOMEDAY
>>BECOME A CHRISTIAN?

>
>Yes Jerry, it's limited universalism! :)
>
>But they actually go so far as to claim that Jews
>won't need to become Christians. They can be
>saved through the Law and that third temple
>will have animal sacrifices, which is the only
>purpose for the temple anyway and Jesus will
>be thrilled about this!




The Jews were never saved by the Law, even when the old temple
and system stood. It was just a shadow that looked forward to
the atonement of Christ.
 
"kingarthur" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:rvx3j.1423$Vq.574@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> "Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bujsk3pe1mtebrqqbdi73ngq0i75i2sksq@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:03:30 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
>> <Spiritman@q.com> said the following:
>>
>>
>>>"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND EVERY
>>>SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL SOMEDAY
>>>BECOME A CHRISTIAN?

>
> ???????
>
> You can't read? After the gospel elect Christians, who are grafted into
> Israel are saved, the rest of Israel, the enemy-of-the-gospel elect are
> saved: Romans 11:25-29


You can change your name, but you're still an idiot.

Christians can't be grafted into Israel if Israel is saved AFTER the
Christians, for the first Israel has to be processed BEFORE they can be
grafted in.

Moreover, the first prophecies of the resurrection came to Israel in the Old
BOOK, NOT to the New BOOK.

Ike
 
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote
in message news:u9D3j.20672$ht1.16266@trndny01...
> "kingarthur" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:rvx3j.1423$Vq.574@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> "Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:bujsk3pe1mtebrqqbdi73ngq0i75i2sksq@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:03:30 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
>>> <Spiritman@q.com> said the following:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND
>>>>EVERY
>>>>SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL
>>>>SOMEDAY
>>>>BECOME A CHRISTIAN?

>>
>> ???????
>>
>> You can't read? After the gospel elect Christians, who are
>> grafted into Israel are saved, the rest of Israel, the
>> enemy-of-the-gospel elect are saved: Romans 11:25-29

>
> You can change your name, but you're still an idiot.
>
> Christians can't be grafted into Israel if Israel is saved
> AFTER the Christians, for the first Israel has to be
> processed BEFORE they can be grafted in.



No, ye do err. A branch _can_ be removed from a tree, then be
graft in again later. There is only "olive tree" of blessing,
but there are many "branches". Israel was temporarily removed
as a branch, but will be grafted back in, just as we, being
from a wild tree, were grafted in.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and
thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and
with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken
off, that I might be graffed in.
Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in
unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them
in again.
Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which
is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a
good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the
natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


"God is able to graff them in again"!


--
 
" ::: good news :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:5r90npF13ai14U1@mid.individual.net...
> In news:13ku5jn7lfv96a9@corp.supernews.com,
>
 
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote
in message news:dMP3j.23391$ht1.10977@trndny01...
> " ::: good news :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:5r90npF13ai14U1@mid.individual.net...
>> In news:13ku5jn7lfv96a9@corp.supernews.com,
>>
 
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote
in message news:OHP3j.18406$B21.5417@trndny07...
> "
 
On Nov 30, 3:43 pm, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "(R)andy" <pulpitf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:13l07nklss0mm7b@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:dMP3j.23391$ht1.10977@trndny01...
> >> " ::: good news :::" <veral...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> >>news:5r90npF13ai14U1@mid.individual.net...
> >>> Innews:13ku5jn7lfv96a9@corp.supernews.com,
> >>> (R)andy <pulpitf...@gmail.com> typed:
> >>>> "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote
> >>>> in messagenews:u9D3j.20672$ht1.16266@trndny01...
> >>>>> "kingarthur" <fredstov...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:rvx3j.1423$Vq.574@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> >>>>>> "Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:bujsk3pe1mtebrqqbdi73ngq0i75i2sksq@4ax.com...
> >>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:03:30 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
> >>>>>>> <Spirit...@q.com> said the following:

>
> >>>>>>>> "ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND
> >>>>>>>> EVERY
> >>>>>>>> SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL
> >>>>>>>> SOMEDAY
> >>>>>>>> BECOME A CHRISTIAN?

>
> >>>>>> ???????

>
> >>>>>> You can't read? After the gospel elect Christians, who are
> >>>>>> grafted into Israel are saved, the rest of Israel, the
> >>>>>> enemy-of-the-gospel elect are saved: Romans 11:25-29

>
> >>>>> You can change your name, but you're still an idiot.

>
> >>>>> Christians can't be grafted into Israel if Israel is saved
> >>>>> AFTER the Christians, for the first Israel has to be
> >>>>> processed BEFORE they can be grafted in.

>
> >>>> No, ye do err. A branch _can_ be removed from a tree, then be
> >>>> graft in again later. There is only "olive tree" of blessing,
> >>>> but there are many "branches". Israel was temporarily removed
> >>>> as a branch, but will be grafted back in, just as we, being
> >>>> from a wild tree, were grafted in.

>
> >>>> Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and
> >>>> thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and
> >>>> with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
> >>>> Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken
> >>>> off, that I might be graffed in.
> >>>> Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in
> >>>> unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them
> >>>> in again.
> >>>> Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which
> >>>> is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a
> >>>> good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the
> >>>> natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

>
> >>>> "God is able to graff them in again"!

>
> >>> Correct!

>
> >> ONLY if God goes back and REMOVES a Christian "branch" that He previously
> >> grafted in.

>
> >> Andy conveniently neglected to CITE that part of Romans.

>
> > So did you.

>
> No I didn't. I quoted the entire thing.
>
> > Where does Romans 11 say that Israel can only be grafted into the olive
> > tree again if the Gentiles are broken off as a branch?

>
> Where Paul say to "take care, and not be high-minded, for if God spared not
> the natural branches, take heed lest He spare not thee."
>
> > The condition for being grafted back in is not the removal of the
> > Gentiles, as a branch, but "if they abide not still in unbelief" (Rom.
> > 11:23).

>
> Yes, it is.
>
> Romans 11:20b-24
> Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches,
> take heed lest he also spare not thee.
> Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell,
> severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness:
> otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
> And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in:
> for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the
> olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into
> a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches,
> be graffed into their own olive tree?
>
> > 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed
> > in: for God is able to graff them in again.

>
> >> No matter what, God will finish with His two trees,

>
> > Where do you get two trees from Romans 11?

>
> The two-tree analogy starts in Genesis and runs all the way to the end of
> the Bible, especially as concluded in Revelation.
>
> Paul calls them the "natural" olive tree and the "wild" olive tree. That's
> two trees.
>
> > It talks only of an olive tree with the natural and grafted branches.
> > There is one tree, but more than one branch.

>
> Nope.
>
> There are TWO trees--the "natural" and the "wild."
>
> The replacement branches didn't just grow on their own, goofy.
>
> >> with balance between the two, as it was when it all began back in
> >> Genesis: One "tree" fit for use, and another "tree" fit for destruction.

>
> > Both Jews and Gentiles are distinct branches of the olive tree.

>
> You're TOTALLY missing the analogy.
>
> There is the "natural" tree, i.e. the Israelites, and the "wild" tree, the
> Gentiles.
>
> These two "trees" existed from the very beginning.
>
> God takes branches from the "natural" tree and casts them down. He takes
> branches from the "wild" tree, i.e. the Gentiles," and grafts them in.
>
> God STILL winds up with two "trees" worth of branches, the one fit for use,
> and the other fit for destruction.
>
> Hence, John documents demons coming down from above, and up from below, but
> both call Satan their king according to their "tongues." The "Greeks" call
> him "Apollyon," but the Israelites call him "Abaddon."
>
>


Show me one single passage that describes Apollyon as Satan.
 
On Nov 30, 3:49 pm, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:


Support your nonsense.Show me where the Angel with two names is
Satan.Those names are names for the LORD.
 
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:u9D3j.20672$ht1.16266@trndny01...
> "kingarthur" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:rvx3j.1423$Vq.574@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> "Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:bujsk3pe1mtebrqqbdi73ngq0i75i2sksq@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:03:30 -0800 (PST), Spiritman
>>> <Spiritman@q.com> said the following:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED"? DOES THAT MEAN ONLY JEWS, AND EVERY
>>>>SINGLE JEW WHO LIVES IN ISRAEL WHO PRACTICE JUDAISM WILL SOMEDAY
>>>>BECOME A CHRISTIAN?

>>
>> ???????
>>
>> You can't read? After the gospel elect Christians, who are grafted into
>> Israel are saved, the rest of Israel, the enemy-of-the-gospel elect are
>> saved: Romans 11:25-29

>
> You can change your name, but you're still an idiot.
>
> Christians can't be grafted into Israel if Israel is saved AFTER the
> Christians, for the first Israel has to be processed BEFORE they can be
> grafted in.
 
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